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(ABC News)   "Cessna 152 coming in for landing." "No, Cessna 340 coming in for landing." "No, Cessna 152 coming in for landing" "We both know perfectly well what this is about. You want me to have an abortion"   (abcnews.go.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, National Transportation Safety Board, Santa Cruz County, California, Air safety, small planes, reports of multiple fatalities, single-engine Cessna, Federal Aviation Administration, city of Watsonville  
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4201 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Aug 2022 at 3:30 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-08-18 11:26:39 PM  
Now arriving at gate 1. At gate 2. At gate 3.
 
2022-08-19 3:33:10 AM  
Unsanctioned airline merger
 
2022-08-19 3:36:31 AM  

MythDragon: Unsanctioned airline merger


Well, vis a vis the headline it was a late term abortion in a way...
 
2022-08-19 3:44:09 AM  
How could this disaster happen? It should have been impossible, they were on instruments.

c.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 3:45:15 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: MythDragon: Unsanctioned airline merger

Well, vis a vis the headline it was a late term abortion in a way...


everyone was unhappy that it happened and there was some crying afterwards?
 
2022-08-19 3:47:39 AM  
As a GA pilot these accidents frighten me. "See and avoid" only works so well. If it doesn't feel right (can't see traffic) bail out and try again. I've noped out multiple times when the smell test wasn't satisfactory. Some pilots aren't any better than the average citizen. In other words, some pilots are morans.
 
2022-08-19 3:48:03 AM  
It's really the only sensible thing to do if done properly.
 
2022-08-19 3:51:04 AM  
Sheeeet man that honky be messin my old lady? Got to be running cold upside down his head you know
 
2022-08-19 3:54:53 AM  

covfefe: Now arriving at gate 1. At gate 2. At gate 3.



That's not the gate. That's a hanger.
 
2022-08-19 3:57:38 AM  
The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no crashing in the red zone.
 
2022-08-19 4:06:15 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 4:10:04 AM  

powhound: As a GA pilot these accidents frighten me. "See and avoid" only works so well. If it doesn't feel right (can't see traffic) bail out and try again. I've noped out multiple times when the smell test wasn't satisfactory. Some pilots aren't any better than the average citizen. In other words, some pilots are morans.


Should you know there is traffic, but can't see it, then you stop until you can see the traffic. Exit 45' from the runway heading and start looking.

Quite often we've had people over flying airports (like 500') below pattern alt because they messed up their altimeter setting or something. They don't have their radios on CTAF, or they're using the wrong CTAF frequency. Dangerous as f**k because you can see them, but can't talk to them, and have zero idea of what they're doing.

Uncontrolled airports can be a biatch.
 
2022-08-19 4:13:14 AM  
It's an entirely different kind of flying altogether.
 
2022-08-19 4:32:05 AM  
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size

No problem, you'll just re-spawn back at Meigs...
 
2022-08-19 4:36:31 AM  

inglixthemad: Uncontrolled airports can be a biatch.


They can be. Lots of straight in traffic at our local one. I just extend downwind. Not worth an argument. And another local one the jump planes think they own it. Had one drop in on final from above while I was on base. No bueno. Never seen another plane that close while in the air.

By the same token sane pilots employ communication. While on a long final in a 172 (at night to FNL) a Piaggio P180 announced behind me. Made a 360 to let him by. Chatted in the FBO after landing and he thanked me for it.
 
2022-08-19 4:57:06 AM  
A single-engine Cessna 152 and a twin-engine Cessna 340 "collided while the pilots were on their final approaches"

cdn.road.ccView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 5:03:49 AM  

Mr. Shabooboo: [encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 447x227]
No problem, you'll just re-spawn back at Meigs...


MS Flight simulator 5.1 is what got me into aviation! I got my PPL back in '99. Took a 17 year hiatus and got my BFR last month. I'm glad to be back flying again.
 
2022-08-19 5:19:06 AM  

DarkSoulNoHope: How could this disaster happen? It should have been impossible, they were on instruments.

[c.tenor.com image 480x272] [View Full Size image _x_]


<picture of a speculum>

powhound: inglixthemad: Uncontrolled airports can be a biatch.

They can be. Lots of straight in traffic at our local one. I just extend downwind. Not worth an argument. And another local one the jump planes think they own it. Had one drop in on final from above while I was on base. No bueno. Never seen another plane that close while in the air.

By the same token sane pilots employ communication. While on a long final in a 172 (at night to FNL) a Piaggio P180 announced behind me. Made a 360 to let him by. Chatted in the FBO after landing and he thanked me for it.


I've a fond memory from a track day, where I'd passed a BMW S1000RR on the outside, riding a CBR500F. After the 20 minutes were up, I walked to the guy I'd passed to apologise for stuffing him from the outside because I basically cut him the fark off in the bowl at Willow Springs, and he thought I was mad at him for him passing me on the kinda sorta straight afterwards.

We exchanged beer later, and all was good. If we'd had helmet radios it wouldn't even have gone that far.

The guy who ran the course (Reg Pridmore) walked up to us thinking bad shiat was going to happen, and walked into a wall of apologies :P

/yeah, really, I passed a bike that had about the same mass and 3x the horsepower. In a banked corner. It's named "the bowl" for a reason, and you can damn near get a bike horizontal in it. It's a gut check, not a bike check
//frankly, I'd be entirely willing to punch a jump plane pilot in the face if he was farking with my landing
///only real world stick time is a Bell 206L  and a T-6 Texan, so I'm not a pilot, but I've a very good sense of my personal space :P Also a good sense of what can go where
 
2022-08-19 6:15:00 AM  
Early Analysis: Midair Collision at North Las Vegas
Youtube wO1-y6Xs7fI



I imagine the cause of this accident will be quite similar to the video.

TLDW: Slower high wing plane (152)  has an obstructed view faster overtaking (from above) low wing plane (340)...low wing plane has an obstructed view of the slower lower high wing plane.
 
2022-08-19 6:18:11 AM  

Sasquach: [YouTube video: Early Analysis: Midair Collision at North Las Vegas]


I imagine the cause of this accident will be quite similar to the video.

TLDW: Slower high wing plane (152)  has an obstructed view faster overtaking (from above) low wing plane (340)...low wing plane has an obstructed view of the slower lower high wing plane.


(Ignore the wrong runway issue in the video above)
 
2022-08-19 6:25:06 AM  

Jack_Flash81: Mr. Shabooboo: [encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 447x227]
No problem, you'll just re-spawn back at Meigs...

MS Flight simulator 5.1 is what got me into aviation! I got my PPL back in '99. Took a 17 year hiatus and got my BFR last month. I'm glad to be back flying again.


Congrats! Mrs. Pow got tired of me spending time and money on flight simulators and RC stuff. Asked me why I didn't get my pilot license. So now I have since 2014. Joined a flying club with access to some nice planes and we fly to lunch together or overnight trips occasionally. All on a teacher salary.
 
2022-08-19 6:29:40 AM  

Gordon Bennett: It's an entirely different kind of flying altogether.


It's an entirely different kind of flying.

I like my women like I like my beer, cold and bitter.

No wait, that's not right.
 
2022-08-19 6:32:45 AM  
"There were no injuries on the ground" Except presumably the three deceased, unless they managed to stick in the air.
 
2022-08-19 6:37:58 AM  
My husband just this minute left to go flying (learning taildraggers) so I'm not getting a kick.
 
2022-08-19 6:44:53 AM  

Sasquach: Sasquach: [YouTube video: Early Analysis: Midair Collision at North Las Vegas]


I imagine the cause of this accident will be quite similar to the video.

TLDW: Slower high wing plane (152)  has an obstructed view faster overtaking (from above) low wing plane (340)...low wing plane has an obstructed view of the slower lower high wing plane.

(Ignore the wrong runway issue in the video above)


I've a vague recollection of reading about an incident just like this, involving a high wing Cessna and an airliner.

Yeah, Google found me this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Southwest_Airlines_Flight_182

Key traffic: "Probably behind us now". Probably.
 
2022-08-19 6:51:20 AM  

ViolentEastCoastCity: My husband just this minute left to go flying (learning taildraggers) so I'm not getting a kick.


Things are a LOT more controlled than they were even 20 years ago, specifically because of accidents with small stuff. I mentioned I'm not a pilot, but I have T6 time?

We had a box to fly in. Do not fly out of the box. If you fly out of the box, flight is over, period.

Everyone else stays away from the box. Fly into the box, there will be discussions. Unfriendly ones.

The box that "warbirds" gets to fark around in has been in the same place for a couple of decades, and I'm pretty sure it's on a map for anyone flying anywhere near Orlando.

Also, the T6 is a taildragger with a radial. I feel your husband's constant use of the pedals to taxi :P
 
2022-08-19 7:41:23 AM  
This Cessna on Cessna violence has to stop.
 
2022-08-19 7:48:52 AM  

Gordon Bennett: It's an entirely different kind of flying altogether.


its an entirely different kind of flying.
 
2022-08-19 8:07:59 AM  
I wonder what got destroyed in the hangar?

I saw several near misses like this at PDK over the years. You knew it was serious when Tower's voice would jump in pitch.
 
2022-08-19 8:15:46 AM  

Father_Jack: Gordon Bennett: It's an entirely different kind of flying altogether.

its an entirely different kind of flying.


its an entirely different kind of flying
 
2022-08-19 8:18:12 AM  
A lot of cars have a 360 view, cant you get a system that can see all around the plane with small cameras and  a couple monitors? Get rid of blind spots for a few grand?
 
2022-08-19 8:28:40 AM  

inglixthemad: Should you know there is traffic, but can't see it, then you stop until you can see the traffic.


Stopping a fixed wing on final is a very advanced maneuver; not recommended for beginner pilots.
 
2022-08-19 8:39:49 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 8:40:39 AM  

Vtimlin: A lot of cars have a 360 view, cant you get a system that can see all around the plane with small cameras and  a couple monitors? Get rid of blind spots for a few grand?


The problem is often rate of closure.  That plane that's barely a dot right now can fill your windscreen in 20 seconds if you're closing at a high rate of speed.

I'll never forget a flight I took in August 2001, with my brother flying in a low wing glass canopy RV.  We took off from Linden, NJ, transited Staten Island, and then up and down the Hudson to see NYC and the Statue of Liberty.  This was all under uncontrolled visual flight rules, under 1500 feet.  Everything was smooth until our return transit over Staten Island.  A guy in a Piper Cherokee was cutting the corner and descending across the island, not where he was supposed to be.  He didn't see us beneath him, but we saw him above us with enough time to bank clear.  We passed close enough to him that I could see the "oh shiat" look on his face when he finally saw us climbing into his altitude.   If we'd been in a high wing plane it could have been really different.
 
2022-08-19 8:43:42 AM  

LoneVVolf: inglixthemad: Should you know there is traffic, but can't see it, then you stop until you can see the traffic.

Stopping a fixed wing on final is a very advanced maneuver; not recommended for beginner pilots.


You say that, but it can be quite easy. Heck you can even fly backwards. Yes I did say backwards. This is something you can do in a Cessna 172 or other small aircraft. Be careful when doing it in a Piper Hershey Bar wing... then tend to lose altitude rather quickly.

If you are flying a small aircraft on a windy day, point your nose into the wind and start slowing down. You may, or may not, have to setup for slow flight. At some point you will have balance the wind pushing you back with thrust pulling you forward. Keep slowing down, if it's windy enough, and you'll fly backwards.

Remember, you stay aloft by the relative motion of air over the airfoil, not necessarily the fuselage going forward.

c.tenor.comView Full Size


Another thing to remember, while you're tied to earth by gravity... basically being unable to leave the atmosphere... you're not on the ground, so your motion is relatively independent of the planet in a three dimensional space.
 
2022-08-19 8:47:41 AM  

steklo: [Fark user image 480x319]


Pfft... Amateur

i0.wp.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 8:59:17 AM  
Gee maybe flying isn't for every moron with more money than brains.
GA should be severely limited.  100LL needs to be banned. Either burn lead free or stay on the ground.
Flight hour requirements need to be brought inline with commercial aviation.

GA is a risk to everyone, all so some doctor/dentist can pretend to be a pilot. Let them sit on the ground and make woosh noises. 

On the plus side at least they managed not to kill anyone on the ground, looks like. We don't always get that lucky.
 
2022-08-19 9:18:03 AM  

OkieDookie: This Cessna on Cessna violence has to stop.


<CessnaBump>
 
2022-08-19 9:18:25 AM  
That 340 was absolutely screaming in at 180kts groundspeed on short final on a long straight-in. That's with a 10 knot headwind at the time, so likely close to 190 indicated. I'm not sure what was going on there. There's no way he could have been configured for landing at that speed - Vle and Vlo are 140kias. Was he setting up for a high-speed low pass or something?

KWVI 182153Z AUTO 21009KT 10SM CLR 21/13 A2996 RMK AO2 SLP144 T02110133
 
2022-08-19 9:19:13 AM  
For those who've always wondered where 'mid-air' is, apparently it's pretty close to the runway.
 
2022-08-19 9:26:28 AM  
"I'm an air traffic control tower. Your call."
 
2022-08-19 9:35:37 AM  
The "Little airplane - Big sky theory" (The theory that 2 aircraft can occupy the same airspace, at the same time) fails once again.
 
2022-08-19 9:36:35 AM  
This is why we should never have flying cars.
 
2022-08-19 9:40:08 AM  

Trucker: The "Little airplane - Big sky theory" (The theory that 2 aircraft can occupy the same airspace, at the same time) fails once again.


Well, to be fair, an airport acts as a funnel in said "big sky." Most midairs are in said funnel.
 
2022-08-19 9:57:29 AM  
Who's taking bets on one of them not using the radio at all or they were on the wrong frequency?
 
2022-08-19 10:02:10 AM  

Trucker: The "Little airplane - Big sky theory" (The theory that 2 aircraft can occupy the same airspace, at the same time) fails once again.


I once watched Randy Johnson kill a bird with a baseball during a baseball game.  Have enough things moving through the air enough times, and eventually theory fails.
 
2022-08-19 10:04:42 AM  

powhound: As a GA pilot these accidents frighten me. "See and avoid" only works so well. If it doesn't feel right (can't see traffic) bail out and try again. I've noped out multiple times when the smell test wasn't satisfactory. Some pilots aren't any better than the average citizen. In other words, some pilots are morans.


Guess that's what this guy did.
 
2022-08-19 10:18:43 AM  
IT WAS A NEAR MISS!

azquotes.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 10:22:51 AM  

Charlie Freak: That 340 was absolutely screaming in at 180kts groundspeed on short final on a long straight-in. That's with a 10 knot headwind at the time, so likely close to 190 indicated. I'm not sure what was going on there. There's no way he could have been configured for landing at that speed - Vle and Vlo are 140kias. Was he setting up for a high-speed low pass or something?

KWVI 182153Z AUTO 21009KT 10SM CLR 21/13 A2996 RMK AO2 SLP144 T02110133


Good find Charlie.

After looking at his flight data, we can guess who was to blame.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-19 1:25:39 PM  

GrendelMk1: ViolentEastCoastCity: My husband just this minute left to go flying (learning taildraggers) so I'm not getting a kick.

Things are a LOT more controlled than they were even 20 years ago, specifically because of accidents with small stuff. I mentioned I'm not a pilot, but I have T6 time?

We had a box to fly in. Do not fly out of the box. If you fly out of the box, flight is over, period.

Everyone else stays away from the box. Fly into the box, there will be discussions. Unfriendly ones.

The box that "warbirds" gets to fark around in has been in the same place for a couple of decades, and I'm pretty sure it's on a map for anyone flying anywhere near Orlando.

Also, the T6 is a taildragger with a radial. I feel your husband's constant use of the pedals to taxi :P


So things are more, uh, boxy these days?  That's good to know.

My husband isn't a moron, so I feel safe with him.  Still, nervous about other people.

I took this pic over Dubois PA while flying:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
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