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(Torque News)   The staggering economics of the Tesla semi. Assuming it gets enough government assistance to make it to market, this semi will truly disrupt the trucking industry. This story contains maths, you've been warned   (torquenews.com) divider line
    More: Cool, Automobile, Internal combustion engine, Diesel engine, Truck, Tesla Semi, Electric car, average fuel prices, Electric vehicle  
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1123 clicks; posted to Business » on 18 Aug 2022 at 5:30 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-08-18 4:37:09 PM  
As long as they don't let them use any of that self-driving nonsense, I'm all in. Truckers have to take breaks every 11 hours anyway, so charge times are built into the business. It's the perfect industry for electric.
 
2022-08-18 5:18:51 PM  
Was that written by A.I. or someone who has English as their 4th language?

It saddens me to see what passes for a "news article" these days.
 
2022-08-18 5:36:03 PM  
Subby drank Musk's kool-aid. It'll disrupt the industry if they can produce a truck that has the same specifications as the bullshiat they've been telling investors. (spoiler: they can't)
 
2022-08-18 5:39:41 PM  

ralanprod: Was that written by A.I. or someone who has English as their 4th language?

It saddens me to see what passes for a "news article" these days.


News article?

Jeremy Johnson is a Tesla investor and supporter. He first invested in Tesla in 2017 after years of following Elon Musk and admiring his work ethic and intelligence. Since then, he's become a Tesla bull, covering anything about Tesla he can find, while also dabbling in other electric vehicle companies.
 
2022-08-18 5:47:02 PM  

common sense is an oxymoron: ralanprod: Was that written by A.I. or someone who has English as their 4th language?

It saddens me to see what passes for a "news article" these days.

News article?

Jeremy Johnson is a Tesla investor and supporter. He first invested in Tesla in 2017 after years of following Elon Musk and admiring his work ethic and intelligence. Since then, he's become a Tesla bull, covering anything about Tesla he can find, while also dabbling in other electric vehicle companies.


No Jeremy Johnson.. you are not a bull.. you are a little Tesla beta cuck and Elon is farking your bank account.
 
2022-08-18 5:48:22 PM  

Lsherm: As long as they don't let them use any of that self-driving nonsense, I'm all in. Truckers have to take breaks every 11 hours anyway, so charge times are built into the business. It's the perfect industry for electric.


I feel safer with computers driving vehicles than with humans.
 
2022-08-18 5:49:30 PM  

darkmayo: common sense is an oxymoron: ralanprod: Was that written by A.I. or someone who has English as their 4th language?

It saddens me to see what passes for a "news article" these days.

News article?

Jeremy Johnson is a Tesla investor and supporter. He first invested in Tesla in 2017 after years of following Elon Musk and admiring his work ethic and intelligence. Since then, he's become a Tesla bull, covering anything about Tesla he can find, while also dabbling in other electric vehicle companies.

No Jeremy Johnson.. you are not a bull.. you are a little Tesla beta cuck and Elon is farking your bank account.


I noticed his note about investing in 2017. That's totally a humble brag. Guy is a fanboi no doubt. But I'm still looking forward to cleaner energy and this could be a great thing.
 
2022-08-18 5:50:22 PM  

Lsherm: As long as they don't let them use any of that self-driving nonsense, I'm all in. Truckers have to take breaks every 11 hours anyway, so charge times are built into the business. It's the perfect industry for electric.


There are already self-driving semis on the road*. Many of the companies involved are in Texas and if you've ever driven through Texas, you'd understand why.

*Mostly in the test mode with safety drivers and confined to highway routes.
 
2022-08-18 5:52:27 PM  

king of vegas: darkmayo: common sense is an oxymoron: ralanprod: Was that written by A.I. or someone who has English as their 4th language?

It saddens me to see what passes for a "news article" these days.

News article?

Jeremy Johnson is a Tesla investor and supporter. He first invested in Tesla in 2017 after years of following Elon Musk and admiring his work ethic and intelligence. Since then, he's become a Tesla bull, covering anything about Tesla he can find, while also dabbling in other electric vehicle companies.

No Jeremy Johnson.. you are not a bull.. you are a little Tesla beta cuck and Elon is farking your bank account.

I noticed his note about investing in 2017. That's totally a humble brag. Guy is a fanboi no doubt. But I'm still looking forward to cleaner energy and this could be a great thing.


Ill cheer them on if they actually can do it, and even then begrudgingly because Elon is such a coont.
 
2022-08-18 5:53:17 PM  

darkmayo: common sense is an oxymoron: ralanprod: Was that written by A.I. or someone who has English as their 4th language?

It saddens me to see what passes for a "news article" these days.

News article?

Jeremy Johnson is a Tesla investor and supporter. He first invested in Tesla in 2017 after years of following Elon Musk and admiring his work ethic and intelligence. Since then, he's become a Tesla bull, covering anything about Tesla he can find, while also dabbling in other electric vehicle companies.

No Jeremy Johnson.. you are not a bull.. you are a little Tesla beta cuck and Elon is farking your bank account.


Possibly farking his GF too
 
2022-08-18 5:53:51 PM  
I didn't see a single mention of cargo capacity. A semi truck is not a sports car, it needs room for cargo. If it's capacity is taking up by heavy batteries, then it's not really a semi truck. It's just a very large, very silly, SUV.
 
2022-08-18 5:57:01 PM  

Grauenwolf: I didn't see a single mention of cargo capacity. A semi truck is not a sports car, it needs room for cargo. If it's capacity is taking up by heavy batteries, then it's not really a semi truck. It's just a very large, very silly, SUV.


The Tesla Semi Is An Engineering Failure
Youtube w__a8EcM2jI
 
2022-08-18 6:02:01 PM  

Lsherm: As long as they don't let them use any of that self-driving nonsense, I'm all in. Truckers have to take breaks every 11 hours anyway, so charge times are built into the business. It's the perfect industry for electric.


Because ample parking equipped with charging facilities is incredibly abundant. And the claims in the article ad are totally going to hold up in the real world.

/Have driven long haul through much of Canada and the US, parking is neither abundant nor equipped with large truck charging facilities
//The odds of them delivering the hoped for range estimates are questionable at best
///Generally trucks are limited to a total of 80k pounds of mass. There will need to a rethink of trailer capacities to achieve that.
////Hydrogen make a lot more sense for a truck
 
2022-08-18 6:05:51 PM  
"Jeremy Johnson is a Tesla investor and supporter. He first invested in Tesla in 2017 after years of following Elon Musk and admiring his work ethic and intelligence. Since then, he's become a Tesla bull, covering anything about Tesla he can find, while also dabbling in other electric vehicle companies."

Damn, dude, you got some 'Musk' dribbling down your chin.
 
2022-08-18 6:09:37 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: Lsherm: As long as they don't let them use any of that self-driving nonsense, I'm all in. Truckers have to take breaks every 11 hours anyway, so charge times are built into the business. It's the perfect industry for electric.

Because ample parking equipped with charging facilities is incredibly abundant. And the claims in the article ad are totally going to hold up in the real world.

/Have driven long haul through much of Canada and the US, parking is neither abundant nor equipped with large truck charging facilities
//The odds of them delivering the hoped for range estimates are questionable at best
///Generally trucks are limited to a total of 80k pounds of mass. There will need to a rethink of trailer capacities to achieve that.
////Hydrogen make a lot more sense for a truck


They don't need to have large capacity if the trucks autonomous. The only reason current semis are so large is because it's difficult to find capable drivers and the cost for the driver is the largest cost of the transport. If you eliminate the driver, the cost goes down tremendously. So remove the driver by having it drive autonomously. Then, each truck can be 1/4 the size. This will be better for the roads (highway infrastructure), better for the vehicles, and will help with logistics. Right now, with a large semi, it goes to a main location, gets unloaded, and all those goods are then reloaded into smaller trucks to go to other nearby locations. With a smaller truck, you can skip the unloading/reloading step.
 
2022-08-18 6:14:02 PM  

ralanprod: Was that written by A.I. or someone who has English as their 4th language?

It saddens me to see what passes for a "news article" these days.


It's about Texla, no real journalist will cover that shiatshow and the male Elizabeth Holmes.
 
2022-08-18 6:14:49 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: ////Hydrogen make a lot more sense for a truck


In general I'm extremely negative on hydrogen in the transportation space, but it really is a good application for trucking.
 
2022-08-18 6:19:10 PM  
drjekel_mrhyde:

Thanks. That was a nice answer to the big question that I had from the "article".

The other part was where he was pulling $0.07 per kwh from? (I know the answer is "But Elon said...") A very quick search gives me pricing from $0.09 to $0.24 with the ballpark mean around $0.15. So at a minimum, his cost estimate needs to be doubled even before you adjust for the different amount of cargo.

The other big assumption is that the 2 kwh/mile holds up in the real world.
 
2022-08-18 6:30:10 PM  
I am excited to see what they come up with in trucking. I am not super excited to see what tesla has come up with mind you but I am anxious to see what the other companies do in that space.
 
2022-08-18 6:30:28 PM  
This just in, electric is significantly more efficient than combustion.

2KWh/mile seems low.

A good EV gets, what, 7KM/KWh combined? So 4.5 miles/KWh?

So a huge truck that weighs 40 ton and spends most of its time at less efficient highway speeds only eats 10x more power than the most efficient EV car that's more aerodynamic?

Regardless of whether it's less efficient than stated, though, it will always be better than diesel on direct cost per KM.

But the risk factors are "range loss over time" (more frequent battery replacements and cost) and initial costs.

On the range loss over time:
Do the truckers have to overprovision their range significantly to the trips they can take?
Do they take shorter trips over time (what happens with a regular contract)?
Or do they regularly have to fork out for entire replacement batteries after, say, 20% capacity loss (1000p/e cycles that they will quickly hit with the KMs that truckers do).

On initial costs:
It's extremely unlikely that it will have price parity with standard trucks.

So yeah, the tech is definitely better, but it's hard to say whether it will disrupt trucking. More likely it will just supplement some routes.
 
2022-08-18 6:31:39 PM  

Grauenwolf: I didn't see a single mention of cargo capacity. A semi truck is not a sports car, it needs room for cargo. If it's capacity is taking up by heavy batteries, then it's not really a semi truck. It's just a very large, very silly, SUV.


A semi (AKA tractor trailer chassis) has almost zero capacity. The trailers that attach to the semi have capacity. As many as three of them.
 
2022-08-18 6:43:52 PM  

dericwater: Representative of the unwashed masses: Lsherm: As long as they don't let them use any of that self-driving nonsense, I'm all in. Truckers have to take breaks every 11 hours anyway, so charge times are built into the business. It's the perfect industry for electric.

Because ample parking equipped with charging facilities is incredibly abundant. And the claims in the article ad are totally going to hold up in the real world.

/Have driven long haul through much of Canada and the US, parking is neither abundant nor equipped with large truck charging facilities
//The odds of them delivering the hoped for range estimates are questionable at best
///Generally trucks are limited to a total of 80k pounds of mass. There will need to a rethink of trailer capacities to achieve that.
////Hydrogen make a lot more sense for a truck

They don't need to have large capacity if the trucks autonomous. The only reason current semis are so large is because it's difficult to find capable drivers and the cost for the driver is the largest cost of the transport. If you eliminate the driver, the cost goes down tremendously. So remove the driver by having it drive autonomously. Then, each truck can be 1/4 the size. This will be better for the roads (highway infrastructure), better for the vehicles, and will help with logistics. Right now, with a large semi, it goes to a main location, gets unloaded, and all those goods are then reloaded into smaller trucks to go to other nearby locations. With a smaller truck, you can skip the unloading/reloading step.


So if trucks are 1/4 the size then you need at least 4x the number of trucks to carry the same amount of freight. Even if they are autonomous they still need to park and recharge, not to mention you will need warehouses with at least 4x the number of docks. The large distribution center isn't going away.

Methinks you didn't think your cunning plan through.
 
2022-08-18 6:46:55 PM  

Stibium: Representative of the unwashed masses: ////Hydrogen make a lot more sense for a truck

In general I'm extremely negative on hydrogen in the transportation space, but it really is a good application for trucking.


I don't see why it wouldn't be a viable replacement for gas/diesel in a lot of current and older cars. Swap the fuel system out, and likely with crate motors for those who have more classic cars or those who want to maintain using a combustion vehicle.

Converting gas stations to have hydrogen filling facilities shouldn't be too difficult. And the combustion product is water. Win win.
 
2022-08-18 6:48:40 PM  

ralanprod: Was that written by A.I. or someone who has English as their 4th language?

It saddens me to see what passes for a "news article" these days.


This. By the time I had read a paragraph all I could think about was how fake the site felt, and how weird the writing.
Everything in the article sounds like bullshiat even if it isn't.
 
2022-08-18 6:54:42 PM  
A good chunk of the cost of diesel fuel is due to road taxes.  I'm sure the government is going to want their cut, so costs may be a bit higher.

That said, if they can significantly reduce the annual cost of maintenance versus diesel engines, which in turn are more reliable than CNG truck engines, that is going to be a big win.  I imagine that ports are going to push for electrification like mad if this works out.
 
2022-08-18 7:00:43 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: Stibium: Representative of the unwashed masses: ////Hydrogen make a lot more sense for a truck

In general I'm extremely negative on hydrogen in the transportation space, but it really is a good application for trucking.

I don't see why it wouldn't be a viable replacement for gas/diesel in a lot of current and older cars. Swap the fuel system out, and likely with crate motors for those who have more classic cars or those who want to maintain using a combustion vehicle.

Converting gas stations to have hydrogen filling facilities shouldn't be too difficult. And the combustion product is water. Win win.


We don't do that because it would be a colossal waste of energy and the cars would have a range of like 25 miles. Hydrogen fuel cells are already straddling the line of usability, but a hydrogen combustion engine would be in worthless territory.

It takes roughly 400kWh of electricity to fill up a Toyota Mirai with green hydrogen. It has a real world range of about 300mi. A hydrogen engine car would go less than half that distance.
 
2022-08-18 7:03:46 PM  

natazha: Grauenwolf: I didn't see a single mention of cargo capacity. A semi truck is not a sports car, it needs room for cargo. If it's capacity is taking up by heavy batteries, then it's not really a semi truck. It's just a very large, very silly, SUV.

A semi (AKA tractor trailer chassis) has almost zero capacity. The trailers that attach to the semi have capacity. As many as three of them.


Just to follow up. A typical Class 8 weighs about eight tons, a quarter of that is drive train. Model 3 motors (the semi has four) are 45 kg each. Double that for electronics and reduction gears. That's about 10% the weigh of a diesel power train, leaving a ton and a half for battery.  At 186 Wh/Kg (new Model X pack) that would be 280 KWh.

I suspect there is a substantial weight savings in the truck frame since it doesn't have to deal with delivering torque from the front of the tractor to the wheels. No idea how much.
 
2022-08-18 7:06:00 PM  

natazha: natazha: Grauenwolf: I didn't see a single mention of cargo capacity. A semi truck is not a sports car, it needs room for cargo. If it's capacity is taking up by heavy batteries, then it's not really a semi truck. It's just a very large, very silly, SUV.

A semi (AKA tractor trailer chassis) has almost zero capacity. The trailers that attach to the semi have capacity. As many as three of them.

Just to follow up. A typical Class 8 weighs about eight tons, a quarter of that is drive train. Model 3 motors (the semi has four) are 45 kg each. Double that for electronics and reduction gears. That's about 10% the weigh of a diesel power train, leaving a ton and a half for battery.  At 186 Wh/Kg (new Model X pack) that would be 280 KWh.

I suspect there is a substantial weight savings in the truck frame since it doesn't have to deal with delivering torque from the front of the tractor to the wheels. No idea how much.


So you get 280kWh "free," but it needs at least a thousand, no? I love Tesla products, but I'm skeptical of the semi. I'm interested to see how they actually perform.
 
2022-08-18 7:09:09 PM  

drogg: drjekel_mrhyde:

Thanks. That was a nice answer to the big question that I had from the "article".

The other part was where he was pulling $0.07 per kwh from? (I know the answer is "But Elon said...") A very quick search gives me pricing from $0.09 to $0.24 with the ballpark mean around $0.15. So at a minimum, his cost estimate needs to be doubled even before you adjust for the different amount of cargo.

The other big assumption is that the 2 kwh/mile holds up in the real world.


Wouldn't time of day really matter here?  Assuming they normally won't be charging during the day, the cost would be closer to the minimum rather than the average.
 
2022-08-18 7:13:24 PM  

Likwit: natazha: natazha: Grauenwolf: I didn't see a single mention of cargo capacity. A semi truck is not a sports car, it needs room for cargo. If it's capacity is taking up by heavy batteries, then it's not really a semi truck. It's just a very large, very silly, SUV.

A semi (AKA tractor trailer chassis) has almost zero capacity. The trailers that attach to the semi have capacity. As many as three of them.

Just to follow up. A typical Class 8 weighs about eight tons, a quarter of that is drive train. Model 3 motors (the semi has four) are 45 kg each. Double that for electronics and reduction gears. That's about 10% the weigh of a diesel power train, leaving a ton and a half for battery.  At 186 Wh/Kg (new Model X pack) that would be 280 KWh.

I suspect there is a substantial weight savings in the truck frame since it doesn't have to deal with delivering torque from the front of the tractor to the wheels. No idea how much.

So you get 280kWh "free," but it needs at least a thousand, no? I love Tesla products, but I'm skeptical of the semi. I'm interested to see how they actually perform.


No
 
2022-08-18 7:15:05 PM  
img-comment-fun.9cache.comView Full Size


Also: The batteries are too heavy, you can't haul a lot of freight with them.

This has been a known issue for years and is why Tesla keeps pushing the fully electric semi truck back. The tech isn't there.

Also: Trucker culture is notoriously conservative and they just don't like the feel of electric trucks, nor do they appreciate the inferior convenience of spending hours at a charging station as opposed to refueling with diesel in minutes.

The better solution is alt fuels: CNG, RNG, Hydrogen.
 
2022-08-18 7:15:13 PM  
FTA: "The Tesla Semi is going to start deliveries this year"

It's always nice when an article starts out with a lie. It really sets the tone for the rest of it.
 
2022-08-18 7:20:08 PM  

MSkow: FTA: "The Tesla Semi is going to start deliveries this year"

It's always nice when an article starts out with a lie. It really sets the tone for the rest of it.


It's the 4th year in a row!
 
2022-08-18 7:20:50 PM  
Sure, and fusion power is only 10 years away.
 
2022-08-18 7:26:35 PM  
Vaporware. Tesla is junk.
 
2022-08-18 7:26:56 PM  

Wine Sipping Elitist: Sure, and fusion power is only 10 years away.


Well yes, but I think it's more like 20 right now. MITT might have a working prototype fusion reactor in 2025.
 
2022-08-18 7:37:12 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: Converting gas stations to have hydrogen filling facilities shouldn't be too difficult.


A hydrogen fuel tank must withstand pressure of 10,000 psi (700 bar).  In comparison, a CNG fuel tank must only withstand pressure of 3500 psi (240 bar).  There is a very significant cost increase to handle pressures that high.  So yes, it would be quite difficult to cover the higher costs, increased paperwork, and more stringent certification.
 
2022-08-18 7:51:25 PM  

Dinjiin: Representative of the unwashed masses: Converting gas stations to have hydrogen filling facilities shouldn't be too difficult.

A hydrogen fuel tank must withstand pressure of 10,000 psi (700 bar).  In comparison, a CNG fuel tank must only withstand pressure of 3500 psi (240 bar).  There is a very significant cost increase to handle pressures that high.  So yes, it would be quite difficult to cover the higher costs, increased paperwork, and more stringent certification.


Not to mention that all the hoses, connectors, and whatever have to be made extremely precisely from very expensive materials. Hydrogen leaks easily and embrittles metal, so the equipment is much harder to make than for gas or even LNG. It costs an absolute shiatload of money to build a hydrogen fueling station. To build the equipment for one hydrogen station with four pumps, you could build 45 Tesla supercharger stalls.
 
2022-08-18 8:00:52 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Grauenwolf: I didn't see a single mention of cargo capacity. A semi truck is not a sports car, it needs room for cargo. If it's capacity is taking up by heavy batteries, then it's not really a semi truck. It's just a very large, very silly, SUV.

[YouTube video: The Tesla Semi Is An Engineering Failure]


The video is pretty obvious bias and some of his assumptions are wrong. For instance, it's likely the base vehicle weight for the Tesla is less than it's diesel counterpart. Not needing a massive engine, transmission and drive train has its benefits, so assuming the same weight for both vehicles and then adding battery weight on top is a bad assumption.

There is also some gains in his fuel to battery conversions numbers since normal semis stopping and going waste a good chunk of energy where the electric vehicle does recapture it with regenerative breaking lowering the total battery capacity need to reach expected mileage than a pure energy conversion calculation.

Beyond that, the US and EU have approved higher weight limits for class 8 electric vehicles. The EU by 2 tons and the US by 1 which even further closes the gap.

Tesla has already responded to these accusations by stating the Tesla truck is expected to be comparable cargo weight limit to their diesel counterparts. Even taking that with a huge grain of salt and assuming that reference refers to their 300 mile range version with a smaller battery and utilizing the higher weight limit provided by the EU to achieve it, it's still a big deal that will draw plenty of attention from trucking companies.

300 miles is a 5 hour range going at 60 MPH on average. In the US truckers are required by law to have a 30 minute break in that time, pull into a truck stop and plug in to a super chargers might be enough time to get most truckers the rest of their way through their shift. Need more, that's the 500 mile range which could seemingly get through most of the day on a single charge or the entire day with charging during required breaks, at the cost of cargo capacity of course.

Also, keep in mind that not every semi traveling down the road is at its full 80,000 lbs capacity. There are plenty if not a majority traveling well under that. There are tons of goods shipped globally that easily fill up a full sized shipping trailer without coming even close to hitting the weight limit. These include many common household goods. Not every trucking companies needs the full 80,000 lbs capacity for their operations.

Something tells me that if they aren't lying out their asses (which is possible) that these things will quickly become a hot commodity as trucking firms get their hands on the first couple and see the operational cost differences.

Elon lying isn't exactly news worthy these days but even if he was, there is going to be a market for these things where they will be extremely cost effective.
 
2022-08-18 8:16:44 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Grauenwolf: I didn't see a single mention of cargo capacity. A semi truck is not a sports car, it needs room for cargo. If it's capacity is taking up by heavy batteries, then it's not really a semi truck. It's just a very large, very silly, SUV.

[YouTube video: The Tesla Semi Is An Engineering Failure]


Tesla Miniaturized Semi Truck LEAKED!! (CONFIDENTIAL AND PROPRIETARY!)
Youtube 56862W24HK8


Yep.
 
2022-08-18 8:38:19 PM  

Wine Sipping Elitist: Sure, and fusion power is only 10 years away.


Isn't hydrogen/helium-3 supposed to make fusion way easier to achieve with current tech, and exists on the moons poles?  Seems like one of these billionaire space company heads should go for that "moonshot" if you will.
 
2022-08-18 8:44:54 PM  

pehvbot: drogg: drjekel_mrhyde:

Thanks. That was a nice answer to the big question that I had from the "article".

The other part was where he was pulling $0.07 per kwh from? (I know the answer is "But Elon said...") A very quick search gives me pricing from $0.09 to $0.24 with the ballpark mean around $0.15. So at a minimum, his cost estimate needs to be doubled even before you adjust for the different amount of cargo.

The other big assumption is that the 2 kwh/mile holds up in the real world.

Wouldn't time of day really matter here?  Assuming they normally won't be charging during the day, the cost would be closer to the minimum rather than the average.


Fair. Though with an increased demand during off peak hours, I can see a higher base rate than is current
 
2022-08-18 8:48:47 PM  

natazha: Lsherm: As long as they don't let them use any of that self-driving nonsense, I'm all in. Truckers have to take breaks every 11 hours anyway, so charge times are built into the business. It's the perfect industry for electric.

There are already self-driving semis on the road*. Many of the companies involved are in Texas and if you've ever driven through Texas, you'd understand why.

*Mostly in the test mode with safety drivers and confined to highway routes.


This may be a stupid question but if we are looking to do self driving semis, aren't we better off just increasing the commercial rail infrastructure ?
 
2022-08-18 9:03:48 PM  
I now doubt trucks exist.
 
2022-08-18 9:09:34 PM  

hoodiowithtudio: natazha: Lsherm: As long as they don't let them use any of that self-driving nonsense, I'm all in. Truckers have to take breaks every 11 hours anyway, so charge times are built into the business. It's the perfect industry for electric.

There are already self-driving semis on the road*. Many of the companies involved are in Texas and if you've ever driven through Texas, you'd understand why.

*Mostly in the test mode with safety drivers and confined to highway routes.

This may be a stupid question but if we are looking to do self driving semis, aren't we better off just increasing the commercial rail infrastructure ?


Don't be ridiculous, trains are the devil. Don't be tempted by their reliability, capacity, cost effectiveness or efficiency.

That's satan talking.
 
2022-08-18 9:11:55 PM  
Also ignore their speed, safety and lack of influence by external forces. All the devil. A good Christian will burn dinosaurs (that never existed) to keep 40 tonne machines side by side with families at high speed like god intended.
 
2022-08-18 9:12:50 PM  
Potholes are god's blessings on the road.
 
2022-08-18 9:17:46 PM  

dyhchong: hoodiowithtudio: natazha: Lsherm: As long as they don't let them use any of that self-driving nonsense, I'm all in. Truckers have to take breaks every 11 hours anyway, so charge times are built into the business. It's the perfect industry for electric.

There are already self-driving semis on the road*. Many of the companies involved are in Texas and if you've ever driven through Texas, you'd understand why.

*Mostly in the test mode with safety drivers and confined to highway routes.

This may be a stupid question but if we are looking to do self driving semis, aren't we better off just increasing the commercial rail infrastructure ?

Don't be ridiculous, trains are the devil. Don't be tempted by their reliability, capacity, cost effectiveness or efficiency.

That's satan talking.


Can you get via rail a load of lettuce from Arizona to Calgary via rail within 2 days? Likely not due to traffic patterns via rail.

Road has a lot more flexibility in that regard and why rail can't totally replace truck traffic without massive expansion.
 
2022-08-18 9:21:36 PM  

dyhchong: Also ignore their speed, safety and lack of influence by external forces. All the devil. A good Christian will burn dinosaurs (that never existed) to keep 40 tonne machines side by side with families at high speed like god intended.


Trains are blameless, holy creatures!
 
2022-08-18 9:30:40 PM  
I am skeptical, but not opposed. Good luck.

I should point out that TBoone Pickens tried to crack this nut using available technologies and found that trucking companies were not willing to upgrade to natural gas many years ago. Back then, a lot of people cited natural gas price volatility. Boy were they right.

But maybe for the wrong reasons. If US fracking and nat gas production had been thrown a lifeline in 2014 and in 2020, then we would not have the shortages and spikes that we have now. We might not even have the Texas blackouts we have now. Who knows?

Anyway, I guess for some distances of hauling and some cargoes, this will make a lot of sense. Mass adoption? One size fits all? Smooth and safe operations? Not likely.

The elephant in the room is battery availability.  Everyone is still dreaming and dancing like we are going to have wonderful, cheap, small batteries and plenty of them in the near future. Really? And trucks are going to be their best use case?
 
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