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(Slate)   The gig economy is going to destroy us all, but at least, for a while, shareholders will have earned slightly higher profits   (slate.com) divider line
    More: Stupid, Employment, Minimum wage, gig workers, Fair Labor Standards Act, Wage, worker flexibility agreement, Labour law, labor laws  
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702 clicks; posted to Business » and Main » on 17 Aug 2022 at 3:20 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



27 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-08-17 3:28:04 PM  
Any time someone claims California is "liberal" because they vote for Democrats, remind them that they also voted for things like Prop 22 and Prop 8 (against gay marriage).
 
2022-08-17 3:29:49 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-17 3:34:32 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Any time someone claims California is "liberal" because they vote for Democrats, remind them that they also voted for things like Prop 22 and Prop 8 (against gay marriage).


yeah every time a clip boarder steps to me i get all excited and happy and ready to sign, while asking "oh finally is this ballot initiative to end voter ballot initiatives?"

i can feel real confident the legislature here wold never have done that(8 and 22) that happens when we have an unfiltered 'democracy' where just any old fascist can get a measure on the ballot.
 
2022-08-17 3:39:17 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Any time someone claims California is "liberal" because they vote for Democrats, remind them that they also voted for things like Prop 22 and Prop 8 (against gay marriage).


I think it's a better example that ballot initiatives are hot garbage.  They're all written as leading questions to get voters to vote yes.  Since voters are too lazy to spend the time ahead of voting to figure out exactly what they mean, they pass.
 
2022-08-17 3:50:35 PM  
America: where traps always work when you bait them with dollar bills.
 
2022-08-17 3:55:39 PM  

Rapmaster2000: ~ Since voters are too lazy to spend the time ahead of voting to figure out exactly what they mean, they pass.


let's just stop you right there and point out, if what all you can spend your time "considering" is just arbitrary hot button topic words that carry no commitment to anything, exactly why is it lazy to not bother with that effort in the first place?
that just sounds rational to me.

after all if the literal ballot in front of me is not exactly honest/trustworthy in it's wording, then why  even bothering to participate with it as if it were? Would that aciton itself not be a lie then, just pretending what you really know to not be real?


If we are not all acting in "good faith" in the first place, then there is nothing really worthy of your time anyway.
And if like me, you do take some time to get informed, then you know there is no one to be in support of.
the lesser of two evils is still choosing to to be in support of evil.
 
2022-08-17 4:05:19 PM  

PvtStash: Rapmaster2000: ~ Since voters are too lazy to spend the time ahead of voting to figure out exactly what they mean, they pass.

let's just stop you right there and point out, if what all you can spend your time "considering" is just arbitrary hot button topic words that carry no commitment to anything, exactly why is it lazy to not bother with that effort in the first place?
that just sounds rational to me.

after all if the literal ballot in front of me is not exactly honest/trustworthy in it's wording, then why  even bothering to participate with it as if it were? Would that aciton itself not be a lie then, just pretending what you really know to not be real?


If we are not all acting in "good faith" in the first place, then there is nothing really worthy of your time anyway.
And if like me, you do take some time to get informed, then you know there is no one to be in support of.
the lesser of two evils is still choosing to to be in support of evil.


Good.  If they're too weak, whiny, and lazy to take actions which they deem unpleasant, I'd rather they not vote at all.
 
2022-08-17 4:55:05 PM  
The gig economy is a bit of a Quagmire eh?
 
2022-08-17 5:15:19 PM  

Hawk the Hawk: The gig economy is a bit of a Quagmire eh?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-17 5:24:09 PM  

HighlanderRPI: Hawk the Hawk: The gig economy is a bit of a Quagmire eh?

[Fark user image image 640x764]


I don't see what Jimmy Carr has to do with this.
 
2022-08-17 5:59:24 PM  
I've done 1099 work at points in my career. It absolutely has its pros along with its cons.

You just have to understand them and weigh your options.
 
2022-08-17 6:23:54 PM  
Paywalled for me.
 
2022-08-17 6:27:20 PM  
Wait. I thought UberLyft's endgame was to do away with humans altogether?
 
2022-08-17 6:39:58 PM  

Hawk the Hawk: HighlanderRPI: Hawk the Hawk: The gig economy is a bit of a Quagmire eh?

[Fark user image image 640x764]

I don't see what Jimmy Carr has to do with this.


Tax dodging.
 
2022-08-17 7:14:51 PM  
Now that VCs have taken their money back and demanded Uber be profitable, it's actually been cheaper to take a cab for the last year or so.

From Union Square to the UES is a $30 Uber ride and only a $20 cab ride.
 
2022-08-17 7:17:21 PM  

LineNoise: I've done 1099 work at points in my career. It absolutely has its pros along with its cons.

You just have to understand them and weigh your options.


1) work without labor protections
2) starve

Those are the options people would get to weigh.
 
2022-08-17 7:43:40 PM  
Having been a part-time Lyft driver it could be quite profitable, especially at the height of COVID, so many bonuses.  Not nearly so much now, very little bar to entry though.

I don't know how people do it full-time
 
2022-08-17 7:44:15 PM  
The gig economy itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. If the goal is to automate away most of the crappy jobs, with UBI and robots to replace them, the idea that everyone has their needs met, and can log in and grab tasks whenever they want more cash isn't a bad system.

The problems are:
1. It only works if people don't NEED the tasks. Otherwise, every recession, every plague, every everything farks over the gig workers. In other words, in a future with heavy automation, UBI, and socialized medicine, it works. In the US' current clusterfark of a system, it doesn't.
2. Labor laws need to apply, in full, to these types of jobs. You don't get to say, "oh, it's just a 20 minute odd job, we don't regulate those". When someone's doing 20 hours of those for the same company every week, they're an employee.
3. Pay needs to be realistic. If you can only drive, build, deliver, or whatever you're taking odd jobs for 3-4 hours in an 8 hour shift, the pay needs to be based on that being an 8 hour shift. Every normal freelancer knows this - and bills accordingly, but people working for these "gig" companies are locked out of any control of billing, and therefore get a poverty wage.

In short, the gig economy itself isn't a problem. The greedy, money-grubbing corporations attached to a broken social system are way it, and really, most of the US labor market in general, suck. This can be fixed.
 
2022-08-17 7:57:58 PM  

PvtStash: Rapmaster2000: ~ Since voters are too lazy to spend the time ahead of voting to figure out exactly what they mean, they pass.

let's just stop you right there and point out, if what all you can spend your time "considering" is just arbitrary hot button topic words that carry no commitment to anything, exactly why is it lazy to not bother with that effort in the first place?
that just sounds rational to me.

after all if the literal ballot in front of me is not exactly honest/trustworthy in it's wording, then why  even bothering to participate with it as if it were? Would that aciton itself not be a lie then, just pretending what you really know to not be real?


If we are not all acting in "good faith" in the first place, then there is nothing really worthy of your time anyway.
And if like me, you do take some time to get informed, then you know there is no one to be in support of.
the lesser of two evils is still choosing to to be in support of evil.


Im not a lazy voter. It takes a little bit of time to write in Mickey Mouse.
 
2022-08-17 8:18:45 PM  

trerro: The gig economy itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. If the goal is to automate away most of the crappy jobs, with UBI and robots to replace them, the idea that everyone has their needs met, and can log in and grab tasks whenever they want more cash isn't a bad system.

The problems are:
1. It only works if people don't NEED the tasks. Otherwise, every recession, every plague, every everything farks over the gig workers. In other words, in a future with heavy automation, UBI, and socialized medicine, it works. In the US' current clusterfark of a system, it doesn't.
2. Labor laws need to apply, in full, to these types of jobs. You don't get to say, "oh, it's just a 20 minute odd job, we don't regulate those". When someone's doing 20 hours of those for the same company every week, they're an employee.
3. Pay needs to be realistic. If you can only drive, build, deliver, or whatever you're taking odd jobs for 3-4 hours in an 8 hour shift, the pay needs to be based on that being an 8 hour shift. Every normal freelancer knows this - and bills accordingly, but people working for these "gig" companies are locked out of any control of billing, and therefore get a poverty wage.

In short, the gig economy itself isn't a problem. The greedy, money-grubbing corporations attached to a broken social system are way it, and really, most of the US labor market in general, suck. This can be fixed.


How large of a company should it take to regulate pay? How do you regulate independent contractors in the first place?

If someone says they can do a job in 4 hours for $100 ($25/hr) and it takes them 8 hours to do it ($12.50/hr), who should be responsible for paying the "lost" wages?

Because if I hire someone to do a job for an agreed amount, I'm not paying for their time, I'm paying for the completion of their service - whether it takes them 1 hour to do it or 20 makes no difference to me.

In fact, most automotive labor is done this way. The job may "book" for 4 hours of labor, but smart mechanics know how to do that job in 2 allowing them to double the capacity of their wages. On the flip side, some dumb ass mechanic that takes 8 hours to do it is earning half the wages.

Paying people by productivity (which a lot of people want to do) isn't as great a system as you may think.
 
2022-08-17 8:26:23 PM  

Rapmaster2000: I think it's a better example that ballot initiatives are hot garbage.  They're all written as leading questions to get voters to vote yes.  Since voters are too lazy to spend the time ahead of voting to figure out exactly what they mean, they pass.


Nah, all the sales tax increases around here go down in flames. They advertise it as "Just one cent!" and the gotchas on these are the tax increase is 1% and is basically in perpetuity to never be rolled back. People around me aren't stupid and the last one of those on the ballot went down about 2/3 against.
 
2022-08-17 8:27:13 PM  

Rapmaster2000: I think it's a better example that ballot initiatives are hot garbage.  They're all written as leading questions to get voters to vote yes.  Since voters are too lazy to spend the time ahead of voting to figure out exactly what they mean, they pass.


Also, our statewide constitutional amendment to raise everyone's income taxes lost in a landslide.
 
2022-08-17 9:08:29 PM  

Flushing It All Away: How large of a company should it take to regulate pay? How do you regulate independent contractors in the first place?


I would say it comes down to the size of the JOB, not the company. If someone agrees to say... 100 bucks to load a truck for you, and that's it, that's clearly a one-off gig. On the other hand, if they're loading 3 trucks/day for 6 months, but you're forcing them to treat each truck as a separate gig, that's a problem. There's places where the line is blurry, sure, but things like Uber and Doordash are clearly intended to be continuous, lasting jobs - you aren't just covering one event or something. Maybe set a minimum number of hours worked in a year so someone who -does- just decide to cover one event isn't "staff", but someone's who's doing it daily clearly is.

Actual contract work, where you're providing a skill on a set project, where you've personally negotiated rates with the company you're working for is different... but let's not pretend that someone using their car as a taxi has the ability to negotiate that a carpenter or a web developer does.
 
2022-08-17 10:22:59 PM  

PvtStash: Rapmaster2000: ~ Since voters are too lazy to spend the time ahead of voting to figure out exactly what they mean, they pass.

let's just stop you right there and point out, if what all you can spend your time "considering" is just arbitrary hot button topic words that carry no commitment to anything, exactly why is it lazy to not bother with that effort in the first place?
that just sounds rational to me.

after all if the literal ballot in front of me is not exactly honest/trustworthy in it's wording, then why  even bothering to participate with it as if it were? Would that aciton itself not be a lie then, just pretending what you really know to not be real?


If we are not all acting in "good faith" in the first place, then there is nothing really worthy of your time anyway.
And if like me, you do take some time to get informed, then you know there is no one to be in support of.
the lesser of two evils is still choosing to to be in support of evil.


That's why I put myself as a write in candidate in the 2016 election, and then voted for myself.  I think I came in 16th or so, in the final ballot count. So.......check that one off my bucket list. I mean honestly, how many people do you know that ran for the highest office in the land?  Hell, Bob Dole ran at least twice, and he didn't win. Mondale, Rufus King. I'm in the company of greats, I tells ya!
 
2022-08-17 10:34:31 PM  

Rapmaster2000: PvtStash: Rapmaster2000: ~ Since voters are too lazy to spend the time ahead of voting to figure out exactly what they mean, they pass.

let's just stop you right there and point out, if what all you can spend your time "considering" is just arbitrary hot button topic words that carry no commitment to anything, exactly why is it lazy to not bother with that effort in the first place?
that just sounds rational to me.

after all if the literal ballot in front of me is not exactly honest/trustworthy in it's wording, then why  even bothering to participate with it as if it were? Would that aciton itself not be a lie then, just pretending what you really know to not be real?


If we are not all acting in "good faith" in the first place, then there is nothing really worthy of your time anyway.
And if like me, you do take some time to get informed, then you know there is no one to be in support of.
the lesser of two evils is still choosing to to be in support of evil.

Good.  If they're too weak, whiny, and lazy to take actions which they deem unpleasant, I'd rather they not vote at all.


Unfortunately, we live in a society where people's voting decisions (when they get off of their fat asses and vote, and not just spit vitriol on whatever the current "hot" social platform is) are FED to them through an invisible series of tubes, And they swallow it hook, line, and sinker.  People, by and large, are sheep. ~75% of the worlds population has an IQ at or near 100. That includes the people in control, BTW. The world is a hot mess, and the people in charge (read: rich old white dudes) do not give a fark, because they're assuming they'll be gone before the shiat really hits the fan. I forget my point, because I've been interrupted by kids and clients since I started typing this, but I think it was basically that the majority of people are self centered assholes.
 
2022-08-17 11:04:37 PM  

Flushing It All Away: Now that VCs have taken their money back and demanded Uber be profitable, it's actually been cheaper to take a cab for the last year or so.

From Union Square to the UES is a $30 Uber ride and only a $20 cab ride.


Uber is a Ponzi scheme, they will never be profitable.
 
2022-08-18 4:07:26 AM  
There's a lot to be said for working whenever the hell you want to work and dressing pretty much however the hell you want to dress. And there's no nerd ragging you about your tattoos. Pretty damn good trade I'd say.
 
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