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(Daily Dot)   European's first US visit:"I've never felt this unsafe in my life"   (god.dailydot.com) divider line
    More: Scary, United States, Poverty, Europe, Tourists' beloved Los Angeles, Brazil, Economic inequality, Social security, handle TheRealBanksyWoosh  
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803 clicks; posted to Discussion » on 17 Aug 2022 at 3:55 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-08-17 3:00:24 AM  
Sounds like OP's never been to a third world country before.

/yes, I'm saying the US is third world
//still a whole hell of a lot worse than us, but third world nonetheless.
 
2022-08-17 3:13:16 AM  
Downtown LA. It was bad back in the 80's. It's probably very bad now.
 
2022-08-17 4:02:15 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

There was a similar review a couple years ago about people scoping out the Washington State convention center only to discover the drug bizarre and tent cities under the freeway. The walking dead heroin users around the convention center didn't help the persons' opinion.
 
2022-08-17 4:19:30 AM  

themindiswatching: Sounds like OP's never been to a third world country before.

/yes, I'm saying the US is third world
//still a whole hell of a lot worse than us, but third world nonetheless.


By the original definition the US is still "First World".
Of course by those standards Ireland, Switzerland, Austria, and until recently Finland and Sweden were Third World.

In developmental economics terms the US and increasingly the UK are becoming "Formerly Developed Countries" and politically "Failed Democracies".
 
2022-08-17 4:20:12 AM  
.... but yeah, the US can be pretty depressing and frightening if you live in an advanced country
 
2022-08-17 6:06:15 AM  
I'm so glad I got to live in a different country and culture in my youth. America kind of sucks in a lot of things. I love my country, but holy shiat, we have a lot of back-assward, stupid, contemptible, embarrassing crap we need to deal with.
 
2022-08-17 6:06:51 AM  
"My hotel is in Downtown LA... I cannot count the people with psychosis that I've seen the last couple of days.

I stayed at a hotel a block or two from Times Square less than a month ago for business and it was, with no exaggeration, like seeing a zombie film. Late at night on weekdays there were literally a stream density of around a dozen homeless people ambling down the sidewalks and the middle of the street.  They weren't ever a threat or even talked to me when I was out and about at that hour--I dress way down and blend in well--but by how much they nearly all talked to themselves it quickly became painfully obvious to me that this country has an epic humanitarian crisis on its hands, and I've never seen anything nearly as bad in the rest of the civilized world.

Allowing homelessness to be a defaulting option is one evil. Not fixing homelessness is double-evil. Discarding droves of mental patients onto the street is like triple-evil.

/And to be clear this isn't "New York." This is this country. Some places just go quadruple-evil in hiding or exploiting it further.
 
2022-08-17 6:08:56 AM  
That is an incredibly long list of partners to uncheck "legitimate interest" in their cookie policy. I noped the fark out of there
 
2022-08-17 6:27:07 AM  
The Redditor ended their post wondering whether this was a problem specific to Los Angeles or if it was representative of the United States as a whole.

It's the whole U.S. with varying degrees of severity.  Thing is if you move out to the cookie cutter burbs you don't have to see or deal with lesser citizens because I got mine.  It's the 'Murican way.
 
2022-08-17 6:38:30 AM  
My sister lived in Vienna for a few years, we visited in 2018. She was living in the "bad" part of town. Some highlights:

A nightclub next door to her apartment building.

Every other car parked on the street was a BMW with fart can exhaust.

3 drunken old men minding their own business in the neighborhood park.

An awful lot of Croatians. NTTAWWT.

That's it. I wish America could be that "bad". Also the streets were impeccable. I don't think I saw a single pothole or piece of garbage when I was there.
 
2022-08-17 6:40:24 AM  

iToad: Downtown LA. It was bad back in the 80's. It's probably very bad now.


This is true.

I started college in the fall of 1980. I lived at home during the first semester. I took 2 buses to get to school; I caught the second bus on 5th street across from Pershing Square. To get to the second bus stop, I had to pass by an alley that always smelled like piss. There were a lot of homeless people living in Pershing Square. I remember seeing one disturbed homeless lady strip naked, get into a cardboard box, and pretend that she was taking a bath. :(
 
2022-08-17 6:58:26 AM  
I've been in Germany for the last 12 years and I hate flying back to the US. When my parents pass away I will never go back.
 
2022-08-17 7:04:47 AM  

kozlo: My sister lived in Vienna for a few years, we visited in 2018. She was living in the "bad" part of town. Some highlights:

A nightclub next door to her apartment building.

Every other car parked on the street was a BMW with fart can exhaust.

3 drunken old men minding their own business in the neighborhood park.

An awful lot of Croatians. NTTAWWT.

That's it. I wish America could be that "bad". Also the streets were impeccable. I don't think I saw a single pothole or piece of garbage when I was there.


Well, have you stopped to consider how much they pay in taxes? It's tyranny!
 
2022-08-17 7:11:09 AM  
[begin-nutjob]

Well that's because you went to a democrat city!  You wanna be safe, you come to a small town in the Midwest where only Republicans live!

[end-nutjob]
 
2022-08-17 7:16:12 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Well, have you stopped to consider how much they pay in taxes? It's tyranny!


The same, except it goes to running the government instead of the military.

And my monthly insurance payments actually insure me.
 
2022-08-17 7:20:25 AM  

iToad: Downtown LA. It was bad back in the 80's. It's probably very bad now.


I mean....ive been in downtown L. A numerous times....i never felt unsafe, but maybe im used to it?
They're right about all the homeless and the lack of visible government services, but thats not limited to LA.
 
2022-08-17 7:23:29 AM  
AdmirableSnackbar:

Truly, the number of people that short circuit when I tell them is staggering. Then it turns into spinning and "well if they used our taxes the right way..."
 
2022-08-17 7:27:45 AM  

Cajnik: AdmirableSnackbar: Well, have you stopped to consider how much they pay in taxes? It's tyranny!

The same, except it goes to running the government instead of the military.

And my monthly insurance payments actually insure me.


Obviously you are not governed by mature adults who know how to get things done.
 
2022-08-17 7:33:27 AM  

themindiswatching: Sounds like OP's never been to a third world country before.

/yes, I'm saying the US is third world



Maybe it's his first time around?
Doesn't speak the language, holds no currency...
 
2022-08-17 7:39:54 AM  
My hotel is in Downtown LA...

Well, there's your problem.  Didn't you see "They Live"?  Homelesness has really exploded in the past 5 years it seems though.  Rents really are too high.  There just isn't enough housing stock.  The YIMBY's have it right, but they're now being accused of only wanting luxury housing, which technically wouldn't be luxury housing if you built a lot of it.

But the true outrage came when they talked about all the expensive cars that fill the city alongside struggling residents that are being neglected by the government.

Don't get tricked by that.  Most of those are leases.  Miami is the same way in this regard.  Everyone has an A-Class Mercedes or a 3-series on lease.
 
2022-08-17 7:55:34 AM  
Look at that mountain
Look at those trees
Look at that bum over there, man
He's down on his knees
 
2022-08-17 8:00:18 AM  
Well they have been to "O'ver" 30 countries.

I miss editing.
 
2022-08-17 8:19:43 AM  
OP: I'm not sure if it is a good idea to wander alone through the streets of Downtown LA at night

I'm not sure it's a good idea to travel to any foreign city without doing even the most cursory research on said city. As for wandering alone after dark in any city you've never been to: let's just assume that's a less than ideal strategy.
 
2022-08-17 8:33:36 AM  

kozlo: AdmirableSnackbar:

Truly, the number of people that short circuit when I tell them is staggering. Then it turns into spinning and "well if they used our taxes the right way..."


Weren't they just bragging about the massive surplus they're running?

Look, everything here gets turned into the opposition of 2 tribes but this stuff is difficult.  And one party states, where the one party faces no real threat, are often run poorly.  The party of your choice seizing power won't solve everyone's problems.  And governments can be run poorly or well.

No one in the US has a silver bullet for this, no matter what kind of glib solutions you get offered in an internet thread.
 
2022-08-17 8:42:17 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Don't get tricked by that.  Most of those are leases.  Miami is the same way in this regard.  Everyone has an A-Class Mercedes or a 3-series on lease.


Why does it matter that they are leased? It is still conspicuous consumption in the middle of a bunch or homeless people. They could also lease cheaper cars for the utility.
 
2022-08-17 8:43:02 AM  

gunsmack: OP: I'm not sure if it is a good idea to wander alone through the streets of Downtown LA at night

I'm not sure it's a good idea to travel to any foreign city without doing even the most cursory research on said city. As for wandering alone after dark in any city you've never been to: let's just assume that's a less than ideal strategy.


Point me to any city in The Netherlands and I'll walk its streets alone at night.
 
2022-08-17 8:44:47 AM  
 
2022-08-17 8:49:09 AM  

DerAppie: Why does it matter that they are leased?


Because they're not "rich" people.  They are middle-class people trying to appear rich.  It matters a whole lot.
 
2022-08-17 8:53:57 AM  

Naido: No one in the US has a silver bullet for this, no matter what kind of glib solutions you get offered in an internet thread.


No one in the world has a silver bullet.  https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2022/6/29/housing-shortage-blamed-for-tripled-homeless-population-in-france

The numbers speak for themselves. In its 2022 report, the Abbé Pierre foundation estimated France's homeless population to be at least 300,000, thrice as many as in 2001.
Just before the coronavirus pandemic, the national statistics bureau (INSEE) found that 146 children had been born in the streets, four times more than in 2017.

news.files.bbci.co.ukView Full Size


A decade ago I was in Barcelona and I wandered into El Raval and there were plenty of dudes sleeping on mattresses on the street and drunkenly screaming at each other.  Crazed homeless is not just a US problem.
 
2022-08-17 9:00:45 AM  
Wow. A socially acceptable way for Europeans to be racist. What a surprise.
 
2022-08-17 9:13:33 AM  

Rapmaster2000: DerAppie: Why does it matter that they are leased?

Because they're not "rich" people.  They are middle-class people trying to appear rich.  It matters a whole lot.


Now look at the next sentences in that post. They're still paying the increased lease price while people are starving next to them.

"Oh, I guess I shouldn't expect social services because the people driving by are merely spending extra money on the leasing of rather than the owning of expensive luxury cars. They can't be expected to pay more in taxes if they can't actually afford to buy the car outright." Said no homeless person ever.
 
2022-08-17 9:17:01 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Crazed homeless is not just a US problem.


Fark's primarily US-based audience tends to presume that every problem is a US problem.  Homelessness?  Income disparity?  Racism?  Climate denial?  Right wing politicians?  Inflation?  Rampant consumerism?  Expensive housing?  Covidiots?  None of these are uniquely American problems.
 
2022-08-17 9:17:58 AM  

DerAppie: Rapmaster2000: DerAppie: Why does it matter that they are leased?

Because they're not "rich" people.  They are middle-class people trying to appear rich.  It matters a whole lot.

Now look at the next sentences in that post. They're still paying the increased lease price while people are starving next to them.

"Oh, I guess I shouldn't expect social services because the people driving by are merely spending extra money on the leasing of rather than the owning of expensive luxury cars. They can't be expected to pay more in taxes if they can't actually afford to buy the car outright." Said no homeless person ever.


Fine.  You win..
 
2022-08-17 9:24:46 AM  

Wave Of Anal Fury: Rapmaster2000: Crazed homeless is not just a US problem.

Fark's primarily US-based audience tends to presume that every problem is a US problem.  Homelessness?  Income disparity?  Racism?  Climate denial?  Right wing politicians?  Inflation?  Rampant consumerism?  Expensive housing?  Covidiots?  None of these are uniquely American problems.


I noticed this very strongly starting about 6 months ago in any thread related to Ukraine.  There was always a contingent of people saying "whatabout trail of tears" or similar to every concern that maybe Russia should not be invading Ukraine.

I found an insight that helped me understand what is going on.  It's common to think of American Exceptionalism as this idea that America is the greatest at everything.  But it's also thinking that America is the worst at everything.  American Exceptionalism at its core presupposes that America is unique and is not just like every nation and civilization in history with similar challenges and problems.  It abandons the idea that America is the middle of the pack at a variety of things, or that it has strong suits and weak suits.  It's either the best or the worst.
 
2022-08-17 9:31:27 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Wave Of Anal Fury: Rapmaster2000: Crazed homeless is not just a US problem.

Fark's primarily US-based audience tends to presume that every problem is a US problem.  Homelessness?  Income disparity?  Racism?  Climate denial?  Right wing politicians?  Inflation?  Rampant consumerism?  Expensive housing?  Covidiots?  None of these are uniquely American problems.

I noticed this very strongly starting about 6 months ago in any thread related to Ukraine.  There was always a contingent of people saying "whatabout trail of tears" or similar to every concern that maybe Russia should not be invading Ukraine.

I found an insight that helped me understand what is going on.  It's common to think of American Exceptionalism as this idea that America is the greatest at everything.  But it's also thinking that America is the worst at everything.  American Exceptionalism at its core presupposes that America is unique and is not just like every nation and civilization in history with similar challenges and problems.  It abandons the idea that America is the middle of the pack at a variety of things, or that it has strong suits and weak suits.  It's either the best or the worst.


America, the country on earth.
 
2022-08-17 9:33:23 AM  

Wave Of Anal Fury: Rapmaster2000: Crazed homeless is not just a US problem.

Fark's primarily US-based audience tends to presume that every problem is a US problem.  Homelessness?  Income disparity?  Racism?  Climate denial?  Right wing politicians?  Inflation?  Rampant consumerism?  Expensive housing?  Covidiots?  None of these are uniquely American problems.


The thing is, other countries have political leaders who want to solve those problems. The US seems to be the only country where there is no option to vote to fix anything, because both political parties support the problems (because those who profit off of those problems bribe the politicians) and refuse to even consider solving any of them.
 
2022-08-17 9:33:58 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Wave Of Anal Fury: Rapmaster2000: Crazed homeless is not just a US problem.

Fark's primarily US-based audience tends to presume that every problem is a US problem.  Homelessness?  Income disparity?  Racism?  Climate denial?  Right wing politicians?  Inflation?  Rampant consumerism?  Expensive housing?  Covidiots?  None of these are uniquely American problems.

The thing is, other countries have political leaders who want to solve those problems. The US seems to be the only country where there is no option to vote to fix anything, because both political parties support the problems (because those who profit off of those problems bribe the politicians) and refuse to even consider solving any of them.


American Exceptionalism.
 
2022-08-17 9:40:10 AM  

Rapmaster2000: I found an insight that helped me understand what is going on.  It's common to think of American Exceptionalism as this idea that America is the greatest at everything.  But it's also thinking that America is the worst at everything.  American Exceptionalism at its core presupposes that America is unique and is not just like every nation and civilization in history with similar challenges and problems.  It abandons the idea that America is the middle of the pack at a variety of things, or that it has strong suits and weak suits.  It's either the best or the worst.


Yep.  And part of that is the assumption that America is the only thing that matters.

It even happens at a more local level.  There was yet another discussion on unaffordable housing in the subreddit where I live.  Point out that it's not just a local problem?  YES IT IS.  Point out that it's not just a US problem?  YES IT IS.
 
2022-08-17 9:51:01 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Wave Of Anal Fury: Rapmaster2000: Crazed homeless is not just a US problem.

Fark's primarily US-based audience tends to presume that every problem is a US problem.  Homelessness?  Income disparity?  Racism?  Climate denial?  Right wing politicians?  Inflation?  Rampant consumerism?  Expensive housing?  Covidiots?  None of these are uniquely American problems.

The thing is, other countries have political leaders who want to solve those problems. The US seems to be the only country where there is no option to vote to fix anything, because both political parties support the problems (because those who profit off of those problems bribe the politicians) and refuse to even consider solving any of them.


Do they, though?  I know it's just a single example, but Brexit shows just how voting to "fix" something can go catastrophically wrong.

And then there were the Paris Accords for the climate, which had almost every single country in the world sign on.  What happened?  Almost every single country missed the goals because they continued with business as usual.

The whole world seems to be broken at this point.
 
2022-08-17 9:54:03 AM  

Wave Of Anal Fury: AdmirableSnackbar: Wave Of Anal Fury: Rapmaster2000: Crazed homeless is not just a US problem.

Fark's primarily US-based audience tends to presume that every problem is a US problem.  Homelessness?  Income disparity?  Racism?  Climate denial?  Right wing politicians?  Inflation?  Rampant consumerism?  Expensive housing?  Covidiots?  None of these are uniquely American problems.

The thing is, other countries have political leaders who want to solve those problems. The US seems to be the only country where there is no option to vote to fix anything, because both political parties support the problems (because those who profit off of those problems bribe the politicians) and refuse to even consider solving any of them.

Do they, though?  I know it's just a single example, but Brexit shows just how voting to "fix" something can go catastrophically wrong.

And then there were the Paris Accords for the climate, which had almost every single country in the world sign on.  What happened?  Almost every single country missed the goals because they continued with business as usual.

The whole world seems to be broken at this point.


The UK and US are examples of what happens when the "liberal" parties give up completely and cater exclusively to the conservative parties of their country.
 
2022-08-17 9:55:57 AM  

Wave Of Anal Fury: AdmirableSnackbar: Wave Of Anal Fury: Rapmaster2000: Crazed homeless is not just a US problem.

Fark's primarily US-based audience tends to presume that every problem is a US problem.  Homelessness?  Income disparity?  Racism?  Climate denial?  Right wing politicians?  Inflation?  Rampant consumerism?  Expensive housing?  Covidiots?  None of these are uniquely American problems.

The thing is, other countries have political leaders who want to solve those problems. The US seems to be the only country where there is no option to vote to fix anything, because both political parties support the problems (because those who profit off of those problems bribe the politicians) and refuse to even consider solving any of them.

Do they, though?  I know it's just a single example, but Brexit shows just how voting to "fix" something can go catastrophically wrong.

And then there were the Paris Accords for the climate, which had almost every single country in the world sign on.  What happened?  Almost every single country missed the goals because they continued with business as usual.

The whole world seems to be broken at this point.


No, don't you see.  Macron is working tirelessly to solve France's homeless problem.  He's failing miserably and his major accomplishment was to tear down the Calais Jungle which did nothing for the people living there, but Snackbar can see into his mind and know that he really, really cares.

Not like Joe Bummer who doesn't care at all.
 
2022-08-17 10:00:16 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Wave Of Anal Fury: AdmirableSnackbar: Wave Of Anal Fury: Rapmaster2000: Crazed homeless is not just a US problem.

Fark's primarily US-based audience tends to presume that every problem is a US problem.  Homelessness?  Income disparity?  Racism?  Climate denial?  Right wing politicians?  Inflation?  Rampant consumerism?  Expensive housing?  Covidiots?  None of these are uniquely American problems.

The thing is, other countries have political leaders who want to solve those problems. The US seems to be the only country where there is no option to vote to fix anything, because both political parties support the problems (because those who profit off of those problems bribe the politicians) and refuse to even consider solving any of them.

Do they, though?  I know it's just a single example, but Brexit shows just how voting to "fix" something can go catastrophically wrong.

And then there were the Paris Accords for the climate, which had almost every single country in the world sign on.  What happened?  Almost every single country missed the goals because they continued with business as usual.

The whole world seems to be broken at this point.

The UK and US are examples of what happens when the "liberal" parties give up completely and cater exclusively to the conservative parties of their country.


That's why I mentioned the Paris Accords as well.  By this estimation, only one country has met the goals of the agreement as of September 2021 (Gambia, a tiny country).

https://www.courthousenews.com/report-shows-nearly-all-countries-off-track-to-meet-paris-agreement-climate-goals/
 
2022-08-17 10:03:26 AM  

Rapmaster2000: No, don't you see.  Macron is working tirelessly to solve France's homeless problem.  He's failing miserably and his major accomplishment was to tear down the Calais Jungle which did nothing for the people living there, but Snackbar can see into his mind and know that he really, really cares.

Not like Joe Bummer who doesn't care at all.


It's funny because I just google France and racism (not homelessness specifically), and it's described as a country with a huge problem where most people deny it exists.

And when it comes to homelessness, Germany's homeless population is more than twice France's.  In Spain, it's a big issue that's primarily migrants (so also a racism issue).
 
2022-08-17 10:38:19 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Wave Of Anal Fury: Rapmaster2000: Crazed homeless is not just a US problem.

Fark's primarily US-based audience tends to presume that every problem is a US problem.  Homelessness?  Income disparity?  Racism?  Climate denial?  Right wing politicians?  Inflation?  Rampant consumerism?  Expensive housing?  Covidiots?  None of these are uniquely American problems.

I noticed this very strongly starting about 6 months ago in any thread related to Ukraine.  There was always a contingent of people saying "whatabout trail of tears" or similar to every concern that maybe Russia should not be invading Ukraine.

I found an insight that helped me understand what is going on.  It's common to think of American Exceptionalism as this idea that America is the greatest at everything.  But it's also thinking that America is the worst at everything.  American Exceptionalism at its core presupposes that America is unique and is not just like every nation and civilization in history with similar challenges and problems.  It abandons the idea that America is the middle of the pack at a variety of things, or that it has strong suits and weak suits.  It's either the best or the worst.


Those are just Russian paid trolls and weak minded minions.

It's been around on Fark for a long time. Previously the normal form around here is "Headline: some cleric in some third world nation does some heinous thing." The entire thread will be about how American southern fundies plan to do exactly that, even if that particular brand of wickedness isn't up their alley. The actual crime by the people in question is always ignored. Not even "I wonder how we can help the people there or stop this awful thing."

/atheist
 
2022-08-17 10:51:20 AM  
Democrats America:
Fark user imageView Full Size

s.yimg.comView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-17 10:54:50 AM  

themindiswatching: Sounds like OP's never been to a third world country before.

/yes, I'm saying the US is third world
//still a whole hell of a lot worse than us, but third world nonetheless.


Or even the worst parts of Birmingham, England, or most of Greece.
Her problem is pretty much a "European" idea that the 50 dollar a nt room in central city is a deal.
In Europe their central cities areas are vibrant. With few exceptions in the USA, it's the outer rings and 'entertainment' zones are the place to be.
 
2022-08-17 10:57:07 AM  

BeotchPudding: Democrats America:
[Fark user image 474x315]
[s.yimg.com image 640x360]
[Fark user image 640x358]
[Fark user image 639x438]


Cool, like I said in another thread, let's solve issues without resorting to Nazism/right ring activity every time.
 
2022-08-17 11:05:06 AM  
Did some pampered brat have to go outside their bubble while traveling?

Boo farking hoo. Not everyone gets to live in a gated community growing up that keeps out the unrich
 
2022-08-17 11:09:56 AM  

Wave Of Anal Fury: Rapmaster2000: No, don't you see.  Macron is working tirelessly to solve France's homeless problem.  He's failing miserably and his major accomplishment was to tear down the Calais Jungle which did nothing for the people living there, but Snackbar can see into his mind and know that he really, really cares.

Not like Joe Bummer who doesn't care at all.

It's funny because I just google France and racism (not homelessness specifically), and it's described as a country with a huge problem where most people deny it exists.

And when it comes to homelessness, Germany's homeless population is more than twice France's.  In Spain, it's a big issue that's primarily migrants (so also a racism issue).


Turns out European racism is perfectly justified and natural, duh.
 
2022-08-17 11:17:14 AM  
I blame Ken Kesey.

Ok, not really, but One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest led to a gigantic overreaction in the US where it is now virtually impossible to provide any sort of services to people who refuse them regardless of their mental state or capacity.
 
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