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(CNN)   It's time to stop letting married people have a tax break just because they're married. What, do they think they're better than us single people? And while we're at it, what's with all this child tax credit nonsense? Do the childless not matter, too?   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Marriage, single people, Philosophy of love, young single woman, Wall Street Journal, much-needed benefits, new data, better policy landscape  
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2963 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Aug 2022 at 11:56 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-08-16 6:20:48 PM  
*This opinion piece paid for by Definitely NOT a Dark Money Organization Backed By Hedge Fund Managers
 
2022-08-16 6:37:20 PM  
Out of curiosity, if someone files taxes with absolutely no income what would they get? Some credits?
 
2022-08-16 7:05:15 PM  
It's the year 2000 on Fark.com
 
2022-08-16 9:00:28 PM  
I think one of the greatest issues plaguing society are stupid opinion pieces.
 
2022-08-16 9:53:25 PM  

covfefe: Out of curiosity, if someone files taxes with absolutely no income what would they get? Some credits?


Yes.
 
2022-08-16 9:55:25 PM  

Joe USer: I think one of the greatest issues plaguing society are stupid opinion pieces.


And talking heads for people who don't read
 
2022-08-16 10:19:27 PM  

AlgaeRancher: Joe USer: I think one of the greatest issues plaguing society are stupid opinion pieces.

And talking heads for people who don't read


Agreed.

But honestly, extending the financial advantages of marriage doesn't necessarily improve the other social benefits.
 
2022-08-16 11:58:25 PM  
It's true ... the only reason I got married and raised kids was to save money on taxes.
 
2022-08-17 12:02:16 AM  

covfefe: Out of curiosity, if someone files taxes with absolutely no income what would they get? Some credits?


Grow weed and say you have a disability.
 
2022-08-17 12:02:31 AM  
We should give everyone credit for turning 15. Give them all a pile of money and let them enter adulthood.  They're hampered by their lack of income, and not meeting their full potential.
 
2022-08-17 12:03:58 AM  

AlgaeRancher: Joe USer: I think one of the greatest issues plaguing society are stupid opinion pieces.

And talking heads for people who don't read


And you may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife
And you may ask yourself, well, HOW DID I GET HERE?
 
2022-08-17 12:09:03 AM  
Ctrl-f: birther
0 results


This thread is still early game
 
2022-08-17 12:11:56 AM  

GardenWeasel: It's the year 2000 on Fark.com


Have you seen the schlocky layout?
 
2022-08-17 12:12:28 AM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: covfefe: Out of curiosity, if someone files taxes with absolutely no income what would they get? Some credits?

Yes.


I'm a bit out of date on my low income tax policy, but I thought the only refundable credit was the earned income credit, which requires some work income. Which refundable credits don't require any income?
 
2022-08-17 12:15:25 AM  

EnderWiggnz: GardenWeasel: It's the year 2000 on Fark.com

Have you seen the schlocky layout?


You'll get over it
 
2022-08-17 12:17:47 AM  
We haven't had this article in awhile.

I think the author has the wrong takeaway. Marriage happens more between older, educated white people. People of other demographics are poor due to the lack of social safety net, not so much the lack of being married.

I'd say their lack of marriage is a symptom of being poor, not the cause.

In any case the answer isn't to suddenly throw out the tax benefits (especially for children, the state wants to maintain a replacement birth rate) - the answer is improving the social safety net. But then some billionaire wouldn't be able to buy their fifth yacht so we'll take what we get.

/ won't someone think of the yacht builders
 
2022-08-17 12:19:50 AM  
Jill is hot.  I'd marry her and give her a couple of kids. If I wasn't sterile. But let's not tell her. For a few months anyway.
 
2022-08-17 12:27:48 AM  
Correct. The childless don't matter.  Well, they certainly matter less.

You'll be higher on the list when layoffs come.  You'll be told you're a hater of children.  You'll be suspect around children.  You'll be asked why you don't have or want children, repeatedly.  If you tell them it's none of their farking business you'll be further ostracized.  You'll be suspect when you're around children.  Your  siblings will feel you're deficient for not being involved in their children, because, you know, it's just such a privilege.

In short, parents lose their farking minds for a couple decades, and they're in the majority, and they take what they can.

It's a bum deal, especially with the difficult-to-quantify career limiting aspect.

/same applies to the wrong ethnicity, religion, orientation, etc
 
2022-08-17 12:28:33 AM  

cfreak: Marriage happens more between older, educated white people. People of other demographics are poor due to the lack of social safety net, not so much the lack of being married.

I'd say their lack of marriage is a symptom of being poor, not the cause.


Kind of a weird take, bruh.  Man a lot of this doesn't sound quite right.
 
2022-08-17 12:33:54 AM  

Osama bin Limbaugh: Correct. The childless don't matter.  Well, they certainly matter less.

You'll be higher on the list when layoffs come.  You'll be told you're a hater of children.  You'll be suspect around children.  You'll be asked why you don't have or want children, repeatedly.  If you tell them it's none of their farking business you'll be further ostracized.  You'll be suspect when you're around children.  Your  siblings will feel you're deficient for not being involved in their children, because, you know, it's just such a privilege.

In short, parents lose their farking minds for a couple decades, and they're in the majority, and they take what they can.

It's a bum deal, especially with the difficult-to-quantify career limiting aspect.

/same applies to the wrong ethnicity, religion, orientation, etc


Just tell everyone you hate kids, then list off the reasons kids suck untill they stop talking to you. Works better if it's in front of their little hell-spawn.
 
2022-08-17 12:38:31 AM  
Meanwhile, if you are in Section 8 housing you pretty much get a penalty for living together, married or not.

The portion of your rent that you pay is a portion of your household income.  There are some adjustments for utilities, but basically it's 30% of your income.  So, say you are getting $850/mo.  Your rent will be $255, minus your heat/electric bill.  For me, for instance, on SSI, I pay $176 after adjustment for utilities.  The government pays the rest of it.  That's living alone.  Now, if there were two of us, we'd get less in total benefits, and on top of that, our rent would be 30% of our combined income.  

The net result is that lots of people in Section 8 don't live with their partners.  They get two separate apartments, which ends up costing them the same amount as one apartment, with twice as much state.  This means that the government ends up actually spending more (since the large portion of the rent is still paid by the government and sent direction to the landlord.)  On top of that, families end up living together.  I have a friend who had to kick their autistic (not enough to be disabled, but definitely enough where living at home would have helped) when she turned 18, because she couldn't afford the raise in rent if her daughter worked at all.  I've known couples that didn't move in together or get married because their benefits would take a huge knock to the point where they couldn't afford to live.  On top of that, there is a whole other category where you get benefits based on your parents work record if you became disabled before you turned 26, and moving in with someone else costs you those benefits.
 
2022-08-17 12:46:28 AM  

Toxophil: Osama bin Limbaugh: Correct. The childless don't matter.  Well, they certainly matter less.

You'll be higher on the list when layoffs come.  You'll be told you're a hater of children.  You'll be suspect around children.  You'll be asked why you don't have or want children, repeatedly.  If you tell them it's none of their farking business you'll be further ostracized.  You'll be suspect when you're around children.  Your  siblings will feel you're deficient for not being involved in their children, because, you know, it's just such a privilege.

In short, parents lose their farking minds for a couple decades, and they're in the majority, and they take what they can.

It's a bum deal, especially with the difficult-to-quantify career limiting aspect.

/same applies to the wrong ethnicity, religion, orientation, etc

Just tell everyone you hate kids, then list off the reasons kids suck untill they stop talking to you. Works better if it's in front of their little hell-spawn.


Or say your kid is an adult.  Or their in jail. Or that they all died in a fire. Or that you can't have kids. Lie. And make people feel bad. Or even mad.
Tell them you have a 30 year old kid you don't know.
Shrug.
People are stupid and will believe anything that doesn't make you look good.
 
2022-08-17 12:52:15 AM  
Tax break? Here in this frozen state getting married cost us money on taxes with that screwball property tax rebate this place does.
 
2022-08-17 12:59:14 AM  
Back in the day you paid a higher rate for married filing jointly. I don't know what this is about
 
2022-08-17 1:02:50 AM  
It's time to stop letting married people have a tax break just because they're married. And while we're at it, what's with all this child tax credit nonsense?

Yes.
 
2022-08-17 1:06:42 AM  

Unda: ecmoRandomNumbers: covfefe: Out of curiosity, if someone files taxes with absolutely no income what would they get? Some credits?

Yes.

I'm a bit out of date on my low income tax policy, but I thought the only refundable credit was the earned income credit, which requires some work income. Which refundable credits don't require any income?


Looks like you're correct
https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-income-tax-credit/who-qualifies-for-the-earned-income-tax-credit-eitc
But at the same time you just need one pay stub with taxes paid.
 
2022-08-17 1:17:52 AM  

covfefe: Out of curiosity, if someone files taxes with absolutely no income what would they get? Some credits?


It depends. Some tax credits are nonrefundable, so the end result is 0. Some, like a child tax credit, are refundable, so you get a tax refund, which is welfare hidden in the tax code. (Support for people who need support is a social good, but I'm in favour of correct accounting classification.)
 
2022-08-17 1:21:56 AM  

Osama bin Limbaugh: Correct. The childless don't matter.  Well, they certainly matter less.

You'll be higher on the list when layoffs come.  You'll be told you're a hater of children.  You'll be suspect around children.  You'll be asked why you don't have or want children, repeatedly.  If you tell them it's none of their farking business you'll be further ostracized.  You'll be suspect when you're around children.  Your  siblings will feel you're deficient for not being involved in their children, because, you know, it's just such a privilege.

In short, parents lose their farking minds for a couple decades, and they're in the majority, and they take what they can.

It's a bum deal, especially with the difficult-to-quantify career limiting aspect.

/same applies to the wrong ethnicity, religion, orientation, etc


Stop being such a snowflake. This isn't r/childfree.
 
2022-08-17 1:24:35 AM  
Yeah...because most people get married for the tax benefits.
 
2022-08-17 1:26:11 AM  
She and her husband are both journalists.  This is less about tax or social theory and more about getting paid by the column inch.
 
2022-08-17 1:28:16 AM  

The Official Fark Cajun: Yeah...because most people get married for the tax benefits.


I hate to be harsh, but most people couldn't do the 6th grade math to figure out the tax and other financial benefits.
People get married for the social benefits and security.
 
2022-08-17 1:37:02 AM  
Marriage means, generally, higher income then two single people, also kids i.e. future taxpayers, in short the state has a reason to encourage marriage it has no reason to encourage singledom.
 
2022-08-17 1:44:51 AM  

Osama bin Limbaugh: Correct. The childless don't matter.  Well, they certainly matter less.

You'll be higher on the list when layoffs come.  You'll be told you're a hater of children.  You'll be suspect around children.  You'll be asked why you don't have or want children, repeatedly.  If you tell them it's none of their farking business you'll be further ostracized.  You'll be suspect when you're around children.  Your  siblings will feel you're deficient for not being involved in their children, because, you know, it's just such a privilege.

In short, parents lose their farking minds for a couple decades, and they're in the majority, and they take what they can.

It's a bum deal, especially with the difficult-to-quantify career limiting aspect.

/same applies to the wrong ethnicity, religion, orientation, etc


At least your first paragraph was correct.
 
2022-08-17 1:46:57 AM  

Osama bin Limbaugh: Correct. The childless don't matter.  Well, they certainly matter less.

You'll be higher on the list when layoffs come.  You'll be told you're a hater of children.  You'll be suspect around children.  You'll be asked why you don't have or want children, repeatedly.  If you tell them it's none of their farking business you'll be further ostracized.  You'll be suspect when you're around children.  Your  siblings will feel you're deficient for not being involved in their children, because, you know, it's just such a privilege.

In short, parents lose their farking minds for a couple decades, and they're in the majority, and they take what they can.

It's a bum deal, especially with the difficult-to-quantify career limiting aspect.

/same applies to the wrong ethnicity, religion, orientation, etc


My SIL named her brat for my husband without asking him first, because I had failed to "give" him children.

Joke's on her; the kid has changed his name twice since then.
 
2022-08-17 1:58:07 AM  

covfefe: Out of curiosity, if someone files taxes with absolutely no income what would they get? Some credits?


I can speak to this from experience.

I earned $0 a decade or so ago. Got nothing from Federal.

I paid my property tax and I asked some of it back from State. They sent me a letter denying my request that it was not possible for me to make $0.
 
2022-08-17 2:04:05 AM  

rudolphojones424: Marriage means, generally, higher income then two single people, also kids i.e. future taxpayers, in short the state has a reason to encourage marriage it has no reason to encourage singledom.


Then why is polygamy illegal?

Any number of people should be able to form a marriage together and make higher incomes and future taxpayers.
 
2022-08-17 2:09:50 AM  
I was told that if we allowed gay marriage, that people would be marrying their mothers and their dogs for the tax breaks. Whatever happened with that?

And if abortion is somehow illegal or whatever, then we should be tripling or quadrupling the tax exemptions, shouldn't we?

/ kidding
// kind of?
/// Sparks are always going to fly when you mix family and tax issues. Add in some religion and politics and you have mid August fireworks.
 
2022-08-17 2:23:42 AM  

mr0x: rudolphojones424: Marriage means, generally, higher income then two single people, also kids i.e. future taxpayers, in short the state has a reason to encourage marriage it has no reason to encourage singledom.

Then why is polygamy illegal?

Any number of people should be able to form a marriage together and make higher incomes and future taxpayers.


The same reason people in central India are overwhelmingly vegetarian, but people on the coast eat fish.
 
2022-08-17 4:41:24 AM  
What "tax break" do married people get? The article fails to mention even a single one.
 
2022-08-17 4:59:05 AM  

covfefe: Out of curiosity, if someone files taxes with absolutely no income what would they get? Some credits?


Probably a visit by an IRS auditor.
 
2022-08-17 5:09:26 AM  

xxmedium: *This opinion piece paid for by Definitely NOT a Dark Money Organization Backed By Hedge Fund Managers


No!  Surely it isn't the fact that the top 0.001% pay an effective negative tax rate.  Like Peter Thiel legally avoiding even $0.01 in tax on $5 billion in profit by putting pre-IPO stock options on a Roth IRA.  Or Donald Trump refusing to pay $100,000,000 in back federal taxes without consequences (he often claims he only owes ~$10,000 in taxes per year).
And sure married couples are in a higher tax bracket because both work, and sure our kids are going to pay for unmarried couples benefits and services.  But but but!!!
How about making Roth IRAs only for wages and ban transfers of all stock options?  Repeal the real estate loss deduction infinite timeframe that #45 uses to avoid taxes every year since the 1990s (even with these deductions the IRS claims he owes back taxes).  How about just making one set of tax brackets for all individual income and repeal capital gains taxes as a category?
Government spending on kids has declined for decades.  Kindergarten full time (an extra 2 hours a day) is $5000 per child in my town.  Sports or other activities are around $500/year per child.  Heck, even the school bus is $500/child per year.  I can't deduct any of that from my taxes.
Fark anyone who thinks raising taxes on families is some sort of social Justice movement.  Fark you with a white hot iron up the anus.
 
2022-08-17 5:31:46 AM  
Um, fark it, being single, no kids, and owning a house, I pay more in taxes. While homeowners get rewarded for having some little monsters, those of us without little monsters must pay for their schooling all the while the schools are failing. I went to a stupid PTA meeting and was basically shouted down and told I had no say because I did not have any little monsters.

Yep, the only say I have is to STFU, fark your little monsters that can barely think for themselves.

/Also, I live in a shiathole Red State that continually makes cuts in education, closes schools, and listens to idiot parents claim their monsters need prayer in schools to get them to pass ass wiping.
//Good times, fark'em I'll be selling soon and moving to a Blue State soon.
 
2022-08-17 5:32:51 AM  

mr0x: rudolphojones424: Marriage means, generally, higher income then two single people, also kids i.e. future taxpayers, in short the state has a reason to encourage marriage it has no reason to encourage singledom.

Then why is polygamy illegal?

Any number of people should be able to form a marriage together and make higher incomes and future taxpayers.


The best explanation I've heard is because it's nasty enough going through a divorce with two people, more people would make the process infinitely more complicated. I mean, just imagine the custody battles with multiple kids from different parents but all siblings who want to stay together? What if most of the money belongs to a non- bio parent and they argue that in exchange for support they should get equal visitation rights? It would get gnarly.
 
2022-08-17 5:37:42 AM  
Marriage and child tax breaks were the carrot.

overturning Roe-v-Wade and trying to force all pregnancies to go full term whether it kills the mother or not is the stick.

The corporate machine needs meat for the grinder, and by carrot or stick, they will get it...
 
2022-08-17 5:56:01 AM  

zepillin: Back in the day you paid a higher rate for married filing jointly. I don't know what this is about


I think that's what it's like her in Germany if you are unmarried and childless. And that's why I've been engaged for 7.5 years now, though Fisncé has assured me if we can find a country whose marriage licenses Germany doesn't recognize, we can get married  there.
We're just a pair of hopeless romantics.
 
2022-08-17 5:58:13 AM  

Northern: covfefe: Out of curiosity, if someone files taxes with absolutely no income what would they get? Some credits?

Probably a visit by an IRS auditor.


There are plenty of IRS auditors who would love a paid trip to visit me... at least once winter is over here.

If you are a US citizen living outside the US there seem to be two common ways of reporting income and dealing with the overseas offset.   The 1st $92k (or whatever) is tax free sort of.  One way is you take your income and drop it by $92,000 (or whatever it is) and then you have a negative income on the 1040.  The other way is an income offset which will drop it to zero for amounts under the magic number.  The paid for US tax software seems to use both and I'm not sure which is right or wrong or even legal (I am not your accountant even if I play one on TV).  When I asked a local tax expert about the rules, he said "Ask [Rupert] Murdoch's lawyers, they wrote that part of the tax law."

As far as credits, I got the check signed by his orangeness... which I may have to declare as income here. I wonder if I should ask the ATO about that... it will keep some of the busy for weeks.  Maybe best not to annoy the local people who can audit me.
 
2022-08-17 5:59:23 AM  

Manic Depressive Mouse: zepillin: Back in the day you paid a higher rate for married filing jointly. I don't know what this is about

I think that's what it's like her in Germany if you are unmarried and childless. And that's why I've been engaged for 7.5 years now, though Fisncé has assured me if we can find a country whose marriage licenses Germany doesn't recognize, we can get married  there.
We're just a pair of hopeless romantics.


*Fiancé.
And DRTFA, obviously
 
2022-08-17 6:58:29 AM  
We pay substantially MORE taxes because we're married. Just Google "marriage tax penalty".
 
2022-08-17 7:01:54 AM  
If we have a graduated tax system, then the tax code is going to "penalize" somebody, it's just a question of whom.


If you don't want it to penalize anyone, then you need a flat tax rate.


The current tax system is such that if you make $50K and your spouse makes $50K, then your taxes are basically going to be the exact same amount together that they would be if you were single.  The reason for that is the tax brackets - single people pay 12% on $10,276 through $41,775, whereas married people pay 12% on $20,551 through $83,550.  So we're nearly exactly doubling things.  As long as you make under $650K, if you and your spouse earn nearly the same amount of money, then you're paying nearly the same thing you would if you were single.


(There are a few credits and special tax situations where that is not the case, but for simple income, it works out that way.)


But the cost of structuring the tax system that way is that if you earn $100K and your spouse earns $0, then you are going to pay less in taxes than you would as two single people.  As a single, you are paying at the higher single rate.  Your spouse, who has no income, was paying $0 as a single person.


Sure, you could change that and say everyone just pays whatever taxes they would pay as single people, but then you're penalizing the couple where one spouse works and the other doesn't.  Why should two married couples who both earn $100K pay two different amounts in taxes?


(And it also has the problem of how you allocate investment income.  When my wife and I married, I had about $50K in stocks.  Is the income from those stocks mine exclusively?  Do we split it evenly between us?  Can we assign it to the spouse with the lower income and pay a lower tax rate on it?  Under the current system, those questions don't matter - we're combining everything together.)


So the bottom line is you're going to be "penalizing"/"rewarding" someone - it's just a matter of whom.  You're either penalizing the couple with similar incomes or penalizing the couple where one spouse is a stay-at-home spouse.  You just have to pick whom.
 
2022-08-17 7:03:18 AM  
It is not time to remove those tax breaks, it is time to divorce them from marriage so they can more equitably encourage the behavior they're meant to encourage.

Tax breaks should be for partners in cohabitation (and include rights to each other's medical coverage etc.) and child rearing.
 
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