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(Thread Reader)   A thread explaining why all of Trump's defenses about the classified documents are BS   (threadreaderapp.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Classified information, classified document experience, National security, sitting president, Security clearance, document classification, Need to know, classified programs  
•       •       •

3101 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Aug 2022 at 12:42 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



101 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2022-08-15 9:11:29 AM  
Bottom line, if there's any justice at all in this world, he's farked
 
2022-08-15 9:15:48 AM  

OldRod: Bottom line, if there's any justice at all in this world, he's farked


If there were any justice at all in this world, Trump would have been in prison a long time ago.
 
2022-08-15 9:16:08 AM  
Because the words came out of his mouth?
 
2022-08-15 9:16:10 AM  
FWIW, this was from June 2020, and this "friend's page" stuff is wearing thin:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-15 9:16:23 AM  
As a former member of the military who had access to TS/SCI information while I was in, I'd be in prison for even thinking about doing this, but I was just a lowly SSgt.
 
2022-08-15 9:17:50 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Because the words came out of his mouth?


That
 
2022-08-15 9:19:26 AM  

Irving Maimway: As a former member of the military who had access to TS/SCI information while I was in, I'd be in prison for even thinking about doing this, but I was just a lowly SSgt.


Remember that OPM interview when they do your initial investigation and they start pulling out info from sh*t you did like 10 years ago you had forgotten about? They interview EVERYONE you knew... That's just for Interim TS/SCI.

Left that room feeling like if I jaywalked i was going to federal prison forever.
 
2022-08-15 9:21:19 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Because the words came out of his mouth?


That certainly would have made for a shorter thread
 
2022-08-15 9:21:30 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Irving Maimway: As a former member of the military who had access to TS/SCI information while I was in, I'd be in prison for even thinking about doing this, but I was just a lowly SSgt.

Remember that OPM interview when they do your initial investigation and they start pulling out info from sh*t you did like 10 years ago you had forgotten about? They interview EVERYONE you knew... That's just for Interim TS/SCI.

Left that room feeling like if I jaywalked i was going to federal prison forever.


Or the joy of calling people to tell them to talk to the FBI about you and it is a good and needed thing.
 
2022-08-15 9:32:10 AM  

NewportBarGuy: They interview EVERYONE you knew


Oh yeah. All the calls to my high school friends and the grocery store I worked at.

eurotrader: Or the joy of calling people to tell them to talk to the FBI about you and it is a good and needed thing.


I remember my friends being all "Dude, the FBI wanted to talk about you!" Like I'd reached the fame of being on the most wanted list.
 
2022-08-15 9:32:30 AM  
Translation: he's f*cked to within quarter inch tolerances.
Possibly tighter if they want to go above the bare minimum requirements.
 
2022-08-15 9:34:04 AM  
I mean, not like the guys I played D&D with were sketchy or anything, it's just an odd thing for a 19 year old kid to be dealing with.

Even though it's been 21 years since I got out, as far as I know, things I was a part of haven't been declassified so I still can't talk about them.
 
2022-08-15 9:34:22 AM  

Irving Maimway: NewportBarGuy: They interview EVERYONE you knew

Oh yeah. All the calls to my high school friends and the grocery store I worked at.

eurotrader: Or the joy of calling people to tell them to talk to the FBI about you and it is a good and needed thing.

I remember my friends being all "Dude, the FBI wanted to talk about you!" Like I'd reached the fame of being on the most wanted list.


I had a couple of friends go through the DOD process and was disappointed that no one ever contacted me.  I guess we weren't as good of "friends" as I thought.
 
2022-08-15 9:35:01 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-15 9:35:57 AM  

Irving Maimway: things I was a part of haven't been declassified so I still can't talk about them.


Which things?  Be as specific as you can...

*prepares notepad*
 
2022-08-15 9:38:22 AM  
A thread explaining why all of Trump's defenses about the classified documents are BS

An entire Twitter thread?

We only need a three word tweet: "It's Donald Trump".
 
2022-08-15 9:40:34 AM  

Irving Maimway: I mean, not like the guys I played D&D with were sketchy or anything, it's just an odd thing for a 19 year old kid to be dealing with.

Even though it's been 21 years since I got out, as far as I know, things I was a part of haven't been declassified so I still can't talk about them.


Nah, dude... it's cool. Before you outprocessed you just stood near the TOC and said "I hereby declassify." It's all good.

Now, tell me about the time that Predator drone went down inside Iran and we had to go in after it.
 
2022-08-15 9:43:15 AM  
This does make me think, though... Is their stupid argument that Trump declassified every single thing in all of government? Like can I just walk up to Langley, knock on the door and say "NOC List please. Here's my FOIA request."
 
2022-08-15 9:44:56 AM  

NewportBarGuy: This does make me think, though... Is their stupid argument that Trump declassified every single thing in all of government? Like can I just walk up to Langley, knock on the door and say "NOC List please. Here's my FOIA request."


He's claiming he had a standing order that whenever he took something out of the Oval Office, it was automatically declassified.

Not only does nobody remember him ever saying that when he was in office, it's a total BS line to argue.  Classified documents do not work that way
 
2022-08-15 9:50:12 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Irving Maimway: As a former member of the military who had access to TS/SCI information while I was in, I'd be in prison for even thinking about doing this, but I was just a lowly SSgt.

Remember that OPM interview when they do your initial investigation and they start pulling out info from sh*t you did like 10 years ago you had forgotten about? They interview EVERYONE you knew... That's just for Interim TS/SCI.

Left that room feeling like if I jaywalked i was going to federal prison forever.


I was listed as a reference for someone else getting a clearance.  Word of advice: Tell your friends before you give out their number for that.  It is a bit weird to get that voicemail out of the blue to be asked to have a sit-down with a US Marshal.
 
2022-08-15 9:57:21 AM  
Irving Maimway:

I remember my friends being all "Dude, the FBI wanted to talk about you!" Like I'd reached the fame of being on the most wanted list.

Or running into a neighbor at the grocery store and them mentioning "Hey, some guy from the government was out here last week asking questions about you and your wife."
 
2022-08-15 9:58:02 AM  
"Storing documents in a room locked with a padlock in cardboard boxes isn't even sufficient for Confidential.

Removing any document from storage requires that it be checked out and then back in by the FSO. "



It's either a bar-locked (bar across two hasps) file cabinet with high security padlocks with changeable combinations or a high-strength file cabinet (usually for "Secret") or safe with dual combinations.  It can't be opened by a single person.

And the FSO doesn't have to be present but they, or someone they designate needs to audit all the time.  There's a sign-in/sign-out sheet.  TS/SCI *does* require the FSO.


"Entering certain parts of a building that stores classified documents requires an FSO escort."

Yes.  If it is the TS/SCI "room".

"Including the construction of the room that TS/SCI documents are stored in. From the door frame to the thickness of the walls to the lighting fixtures. "

And you shouldn't be able to hear conversations within that room from adjacent rooms or hallways.  You have to turn on music/noise if having a conversation or briefing over the material (but it is common practice to simply turn it on when the room has occupants).
--------------

Some of the locks, at least the locking part, don't look like anything special.  It's just a big, bulky, looking pad-lock with some extra features.

Also, the FSO can have couriers.  It is sometimes necessary to carry classified information outside of secured areas and there is this entire process for it (training, being designated, etc.).  When it is outside of a secured area, the material never leaves your person under any circumstance within your control.  And there are varying levels for this - a non-trained person can carry the material in certain areas.  But if it goes to a totally unsecured area, that is where you need a courier or the FSO - within the normal areas (PX/BX, base hospital, even the flight-line) of a military base are considered "totally unsecured" in this case (depending on the material classification).
 
2022-08-15 9:59:14 AM  

Irving Maimway: As a former member of the military who had access to TS/SCI information while I was in, I'd be in prison for even thinking about doing this, but I was just a lowly SSgt.


I dunno, did you think to have a standing order that anything you took would be automatically declassified?
 
2022-08-15 10:13:12 AM  

NewportBarGuy: They interview EVERYONE you knew...


I was a fun call when my brother called me telling me they would be interviewing me.
In retrospect I should have asked for more stuff.
 
2022-08-15 11:15:01 AM  

UberDave: "Storing documents in a room locked with a padlock in cardboard boxes isn't even sufficient for Confidential.

Removing any document from storage requires that it be checked out and then back in by the FSO. "


It's either a bar-locked (bar across two hasps) file cabinet with high security padlocks with changeable combinations or a high-strength file cabinet (usually for "Secret") or safe with dual combinations.  It can't be opened by a single person.

And the FSO doesn't have to be present but they, or someone they designate needs to audit all the time.  There's a sign-in/sign-out sheet.  TS/SCI *does* require the FSO.


"Entering certain parts of a building that stores classified documents requires an FSO escort."

Yes.  If it is the TS/SCI "room".

"Including the construction of the room that TS/SCI documents are stored in. From the door frame to the thickness of the walls to the lighting fixtures. "

And you shouldn't be able to hear conversations within that room from adjacent rooms or hallways.  You have to turn on music/noise if having a conversation or briefing over the material (but it is common practice to simply turn it on when the room has occupants).
--------------

Some of the locks, at least the locking part, don't look like anything special.  It's just a big, bulky, looking pad-lock with some extra features.

Also, the FSO can have couriers.  It is sometimes necessary to carry classified information outside of secured areas and there is this entire process for it (training, being designated, etc.).  When it is outside of a secured area, the material never leaves your person under any circumstance within your control.  And there are varying levels for this - a non-trained person can carry the material in certain areas.  But if it goes to a totally unsecured area, that is where you need a courier or the FSO - within the normal areas (PX/BX, base hospital, even the flight-line) of a military base are considered "totally unsecured" in this case (dependin ...


So, most of what I've been learning over the past week is either the rules changed since the last time I dealt with classified info, or everywhere I've worked has been SUPER out of compliance.
 
2022-08-15 11:19:06 AM  

Bootleg: So, most of what I've been learning over the past week is either the rules changed since the last time I dealt with classified info, or everywhere I've worked has been SUPER out of compliance.


So, there are a lot of kludges and grandfathered exceptions, and a lot of genuine non-compliance out there, but that's all pretty much straight out of the security manual stuff as of about a decade ago, at least.
 
2022-08-15 12:46:32 PM  
Doing nothing would be far, FAR worse than convicting Trump of espionage.
So there's that. Which is nice.
 
2022-08-15 12:47:07 PM  

Irving Maimway: As a former member of the military who had access to TS/SCI information while I was in, I'd be in prison for even thinking about doing this, but I was just a lowly SSgt.


I also worked for a living, and definitely would be in Kansas "more", probably for many more years, had I done what Trumpski did.
 
2022-08-15 12:48:38 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-15 12:50:52 PM  

Weaver95: Doing nothing would be far, FAR worse than convicting Trump of espionage.
So there's that. Which is nice.


They have the documents and are scanning them to see who touched them, the question is where do they have Taliban fingerprints on file.
 
2022-08-15 12:51:30 PM  
The main problem with convicting Trump of anything is that at least one of his fans will make it on to the jury, not matter how much the prosecution tries to kick them off pre-trial.  So, to get a conviction, you will have to convince one or more MAGA heads that they God Emperor should go to jail.
 
2022-08-15 12:51:57 PM  

Irving Maimway: NewportBarGuy: They interview EVERYONE you knew

Oh yeah. All the calls to my high school friends and the grocery store I worked at.

eurotrader: Or the joy of calling people to tell them to talk to the FBI about you and it is a good and needed thing.

I remember my friends being all "Dude, the FBI wanted to talk about you!" Like I'd reached the fame of being on the most wanted list.


They asked my husband about getting fired from a job when he was 16.

He didn't pay his union dues because the union dues were more than he made as a part time, minimum wage student / employee.
 
2022-08-15 12:52:28 PM  

Irving Maimway: As a former member of the military who had access to TS/SCI information while I was in, I'd be in prison for even thinking about doing this, but I was just a lowly SSgt.



I've never worked in any level of the government except for at a university, but I can say that I'd have been fired and I'd have had my career wrecked had I ignored my FERPA training.  And I get a lot of stern warnings about HIPAA and GDPR at my current job.

I got to read the riot act to a client over something like that once.  It was fun.


One more thing I've been wanting to comment.  One of Trump's many excuses is that he declassified the documents (and of course he didn't).

But suppose he did.  HOW IS THAT BETTER?  Given the nature of these documents, I think a case could be made that the act of declassifying them would be at least borderline treason.  IANAL, but I am a rational human being who thinks our nuclear secrets should probably stay secret.
 
2022-08-15 12:52:46 PM  
"A former president cannot declassify anything. Once they leave office, they are civilians in the eyes of the law."

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-15 12:53:33 PM  

UberDave: It's either a bar-locked (bar across two hasps) file cabinet with high security padlocks with changeable combinations or a high-strength file cabinet (usually for "Secret") or safe with dual combinations.  It can't be opened by a single person.


Oh god, those safes were by far the worst part about working in a SCIF, and I had to update the keys on crypto units fairly regularly.

For some reason, they always gave the second half of the combination to a complete potato, so I'd dial in my combination successfully, then have to wait several minutes for the potato to fark up their half, and dial mine in again. Repeat for a half hour, then I finally get to rekey my stuff.
 
2022-08-15 12:53:41 PM  
Maybe Trump should live in a SCIF for the rest of his days, reading whatever he likes.


Not a skiff like this
Fark user imageView Full Size


More of a window-less SCIF (sensitive compartmentalized information facility) like this:

Fark user imageView Full Size



Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-15 12:53:50 PM  
This was never on my list of things that I thought Trump might face criminal charges for, but it's certainly one of the best. The laws are very very clear and the punishments are severe. And he's directly responsible here so it's not like he can hand wave and the blame lands on someone else. It's like how Capone went away for tax evasion rather than murder.
 
2022-08-15 12:55:09 PM  

Geotpf: The main problem with convicting Trump of anything is that at least one of his fans will make it on to the jury, not matter how much the prosecution tries to kick them off pre-trial.  So, to get a conviction, you will have to convince one or more MAGA heads that they God Emperor should go to jail.


Yup. When all the other hurdles of political comity are obseved -- all levels of ethics. Once thats all accomplished, there's gonna be one Trumper that squeaked into the jury and blows it all up via nullification.
 
2022-08-15 12:55:27 PM  
pbs.twimg.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-15 12:55:52 PM  

BitwiseShift: Maybe Trump should live in a SCIF for the rest of his days, reading whatever he likes.


Not a skiff like this
[Fark user image 584x350]

More of a window-less SCIF (sensitive compartmentalized information facility) like this:

[Fark user image 850x637]


[Fark user image 322x157]


I soooo want to see LPL have a go at those doors. "...click on two... some counter-rotation... and we've got it".
 
2022-08-15 12:56:29 PM  
 I always considered TFG to be a good liar.  He'd throw out one lie, repeat it four times and his MAGAts share it around the world.    A good liar only tells one lie per.  That makes it easy to remember.  And they stick to that lie.

Why were you late?

I ran out of gas

The gas gage is half full.

I put gas in the tank after I ran out of gas.  You're welcome

When I gave you the keys, I told you there was half a tank.

You were wrong.   The gage dropped to E and I ran out of gas.  You have a bad gas gage and I put half a tank of gas in the tank after I ran out of gas.
 
2022-08-15 12:57:38 PM  

BitwiseShift: Maybe Trump should live in a SCIF for the rest of his days, reading whatever he likes.


Not a skiff like this
[Fark user image image 584x350]

More of a window-less SCIF (sensitive compartmentalized information facility) like this:

[Fark user image image 850x637]


[Fark user image image 322x157]


Um, it's pronounced "sif." Do you pronounce the C in "science"??

/this is how everyone sounds arguing over GIF
 
2022-08-15 12:59:34 PM  

Russ1642: BitwiseShift: Maybe Trump should live in a SCIF for the rest of his days, reading whatever he likes.


Not a skiff like this
[Fark user image 584x350]

More of a window-less SCIF (sensitive compartmentalized information facility) like this:

[Fark user image 850x637]


[Fark user image 322x157]

I soooo want to see LPL have a go at those doors. "...click on two... some counter-rotation... and we've got it".


"three seems set... hang on - Marine M-16 on my neck, let's start over"
 
2022-08-15 12:59:52 PM  
That's better than all the other hottakes I've seen over the last week because it's actually rooted in the nuts and bolts of what went so very wrong there.

US Gov't building specifications are absolute and they'll come down on you out of everywhere like you forgot the TPS report if you do otherwise.

/did otherwise once
// :-[
 
2022-08-15 1:00:22 PM  
Trump is going to just keep lying. Not that the lies are working, it's just that Donny has no idea what else to do. Lying and then doubling down on the lies are his entire strategy.
 
2022-08-15 1:00:40 PM  

UberDave: "Storing documents in a room locked with a padlock in cardboard boxes isn't even sufficient for Confidential.

Removing any document from storage requires that it be checked out and then back in by the FSO. "


It's either a bar-locked (bar across two hasps) file cabinet with high security padlocks with changeable combinations or a high-strength file cabinet (usually for "Secret") or safe with dual combinations.  It can't be opened by a single person.

And the FSO doesn't have to be present but they, or someone they designate needs to audit all the time.  There's a sign-in/sign-out sheet.  TS/SCI *does* require the FSO.


"Entering certain parts of a building that stores classified documents requires an FSO escort."

Yes.  If it is the TS/SCI "room".

"Including the construction of the room that TS/SCI documents are stored in. From the door frame to the thickness of the walls to the lighting fixtures. "

And you shouldn't be able to hear conversations within that room from adjacent rooms or hallways.  You have to turn on music/noise if having a conversation or briefing over the material (but it is common practice to simply turn it on when the room has occupants).
--------------

Some of the locks, at least the locking part, don't look like anything special.  It's just a big, bulky, looking pad-lock with some extra features.

Also, the FSO can have couriers.  It is sometimes necessary to carry classified information outside of secured areas and there is this entire process for it (training, being designated, etc.).  When it is outside of a secured area, the material never leaves your person under any circumstance within your control.  And there are varying levels for this - a non-trained person can carry the material in certain areas.  But if it goes to a totally unsecured area, that is where you need a courier or the FSO - within the normal areas (PX/BX, base hospital, even the flight-line) of a military base are considered "totally unsecured" in this case (dependin ...


Fark user imageView Full Size


Trump had insecure possession of top secret information for over a year and a half.  It was not a problem.  Arguably, he and his attorneys were working with the government to return these documents to their proper owner.  Now, it wasn't going particularly well, but there was some amount of communication and compliance.

So you have to ask:  Why now, after 19 months, is being in possession of top secret information suddenly a problem ?  The simplest answer is:  he did not keep the information secret.  This is not about having documents he wasn't supposed to have.  It is about what he did with those documents.  He sold government secrets for money.
 
2022-08-15 1:00:54 PM  
Rules governing classified documents are not mentioned in the Bible, thus are not God's Law, and therefore may be ignored by Donald Trump.

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size


Study it out
 
2022-08-15 1:01:22 PM  

Geotpf: The main problem with convicting Trump of anything is that at least one of his fans will make it on to the jury, not matter how much the prosecution tries to kick them off pre-trial.  So, to get a conviction, you will have to convince one or more MAGA heads that they God Emperor should go to jail.


We'll see if a jury would be part of it.  Who on the planet hasn't heard of this criminal already?
 
2022-08-15 1:01:58 PM  

austerity101: BitwiseShift: Maybe Trump should live in a SCIF for the rest of his days, reading whatever he likes.


Not a skiff like this
[Fark user image image 584x350]

More of a window-less SCIF (sensitive compartmentalized information facility) like this:

[Fark user image image 850x637]


[Fark user image image 322x157]

Um, it's pronounced "sif." Do you pronounce the C in "science"??

/this is how everyone sounds arguing over GIF


I don't care if I die, and am wrong and show up at the gates of heaven. The Creator himself could look me in the eye and say "It's pronounced Jif, like the peanut butter." I'd give him the finger, say "go fark yourself, Jod!" and moonwalk my way into hell.
 
2022-08-15 1:03:32 PM  

NeoCortex42: NewportBarGuy: Irving Maimway: As a former member of the military who had access to TS/SCI information while I was in, I'd be in prison for even thinking about doing this, but I was just a lowly SSgt.

Remember that OPM interview when they do your initial investigation and they start pulling out info from sh*t you did like 10 years ago you had forgotten about? They interview EVERYONE you knew... That's just for Interim TS/SCI.

Left that room feeling like if I jaywalked i was going to federal prison forever.

I was listed as a reference for someone else getting a clearance.  Word of advice: Tell your friends before you give out their number for that.  It is a bit weird to get that voicemail out of the blue to be asked to have a sit-down with a US Marshal.


Sometimes the investigator will ask interviewees for other people to speak with. I did this, and notified the people (and the subject) when doing so. But it's easy that someone might be oblivious and not realize what is going to happen next.
Then again, you might have had a "friend" who wasn't exactly working on all cylinders.
 
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