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(Phys Org2)   This just in: many Americans still unable to grasp that their choices have consequences when it comes to climate change. Ric Romero would have reported this, but he was lost in a recent wildfire   (phys.org) divider line
    More: Obvious, Greenhouse gas, Climate change, Fossil fuel, climate change, Renewable energy, Carbon dioxide, United States, Attribution of recent climate change  
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2793 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 15 Aug 2022 at 8:50 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-08-15 8:26:47 AM  
Oh look, another article trying to pin climate change on individuals instead mega corporations and politicians.

How many SUVs would I need to not drive to cover ONE panamax container ship running for one hour?
How far below zero would I need to keep my house in the winter?
 
2022-08-15 8:38:24 AM  

SpectroBoy: Oh look, another article trying to pin climate change on individuals instead mega corporations and politicians.

How many SUVs would I need to not drive to cover ONE panamax container ship running for one hour?
How far below zero would I need to keep my house in the winter?


shhhh capitalism will hear you.
 
2022-08-15 8:55:08 AM  
Guys, I forgot to recycle that can of tuna 12 years ago. I'm sorry. It's all my fault.
 
2022-08-15 8:55:15 AM  
I blame the prisoners for the state of this prison.
 
2022-08-15 8:56:12 AM  
Asking people to cooperate is just stupid. People are morons. They can probably adhere to mandatory measures, at least some of them can. But bleating like a wounded sheep, over and over, about how people need to figure things out for themselves and save the planet? These are the same people who couldn't pass geometry.
 
2022-08-15 8:57:37 AM  
Some individuals choose against wind power.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-15 8:57:57 AM  

SpectroBoy: How many SUVs would I need to not drive to cover ONE panamax container ship running for one hour?


That's a self-own in my opinion. What the are container ships doing if not satiating consumer demand for things - like parts for heavier-rather-than-lighter vehicles, uh just to pick one random consumer demand?
 
2022-08-15 8:58:28 AM  

SpectroBoy: Oh look, another article trying to pin climate change on individuals instead mega corporations and politicians.

How many SUVs would I need to not drive to cover ONE panamax container ship running for one hour?
How far below zero would I need to keep my house in the winter?


This.

Yes, the coal rolling giant farking trucks are definitely a concern, but the average asshole puttering around in their cars and ACs aren't nearly as devastating as oil refineries spewing millions of gallons into the oceans, or things like coal production being ramped up or the EPA being attacked by the SCOTUS ruling.

Only time it will make a damn is when their money gets threatened.
 
2022-08-15 9:02:08 AM  
Stop going to Florida so a billionaire can have a 6th yacht!
 
2022-08-15 9:02:15 AM  
FTFA:

Overall, 35% of U.S. adults say they are "extremely" or "very" concerned about the impact of climate change on them personally, down from 44% in August 2019. Another third say they are somewhat concerned.

These questions aren't being asked in a vacuum. I suspect the reason people are less concerned is because of inflation, COVID, the economy, etc.
 
2022-08-15 9:03:26 AM  
An individual person has little to no impact on global warming*, unless they're a head of state or the owner of a fossil fuel company. Shifting the blame to the consumer is what polluters do to try and avoid responsibility.

*The phrase "climate change" was invented by polluters to try and make global warming sound less scary.
 
2022-08-15 9:03:33 AM  
Jokes on you Subs, I won't be alive to see the consequences of my actions. Not my problem. Ha ha!
 
2022-08-15 9:11:01 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: An individual person has little to no impact on global warming*, unless they're a head of state or the owner of a fossil fuel company. Shifting the blame to the consumer is what polluters do to try and avoid responsibility.

*The phrase "climate change" was invented by polluters to try and make global warming sound less scary.


If you just stopped drinking that water I polluted you wouldn't get cancer!!! -DuPont Chemicals, probably.
 
2022-08-15 9:12:10 AM  

SpectroBoy: Oh look, another article trying to pin climate change on individuals instead mega corporations and politicians.

How many SUVs would I need to not drive to cover ONE panamax container ship running for one hour?
How far below zero would I need to keep my house in the winter?


Who's buying the mega corporations products? Without those individuals buying the products the companies wouldn't exist right now. There would be something else around.
 
2022-08-15 9:12:13 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Guys, I forgot to recycle that can of tuna 12 years ago. I'm sorry. It's all my fault.


History's greatest monster.
 
2022-08-15 9:14:06 AM  
I'd love to install solar panels and drive an electric car.  I don't have the upfront cash to pay for those things.

I've looked into the subsidies and incentives, and they don't make the changes affordable for me right now.

I've considered the electric scooter... or electric motorcycle maybe?  But I haven't looked into those options seriously yet.
 
2022-08-15 9:14:15 AM  

Nimbull: Who's buying the mega corporations products? Without those individuals buying the products the companies wouldn't exist right now. There would be something else around.


I understand your point but what choice is there?
For example, what made in America cell phone do you recommend?
Is it up to consumers to find out where chips and circuit board were made when buying a computer?

This needs to be addressed by laws and policies, not by shaming consumers who are not in control (IMO)
 
2022-08-15 9:14:17 AM  

SpectroBoy: Oh look, another article trying to pin climate change on individuals instead mega corporations and politicians.

How many SUVs would I need to not drive to cover ONE panamax container ship running for one hour?
How far below zero would I need to keep my house in the winter?


While I'm not saying that mega corporations shouldn't pay the cost of reducing greenhouse gas emissions, there's more of an argument for a globalized economy that requires container ships than people driving gas guzzlers intended for towing and off-roading as commuter vehicles. In addition to reducing the price of goods, the globalized economy has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty and reduced food insecurity. Being able to drive a truck as a commuter vehicle that gets 18 mpg just helps insecure men feel like tough guys.
 
2022-08-15 9:19:12 AM  

Nimbull: Who's buying the mega corporations products? Without those individuals buying the products the companies wouldn't exist right now. There would be something else around.


118 million iPhone users beg to differ.
 
2022-08-15 9:19:28 AM  

Nimbull: SpectroBoy: Oh look, another article trying to pin climate change on individuals instead mega corporations and politicians.

How many SUVs would I need to not drive to cover ONE panamax container ship running for one hour?
How far below zero would I need to keep my house in the winter?

Who's buying the mega corporations products? Without those individuals buying the products the companies wouldn't exist right now. There would be something else around.


Blame the stockholders then.  They demand that corporations satiate every desire of the masses to everyone's detriment.

No one will die if they don't get that 3rd air fryer.
 
2022-08-15 9:22:05 AM  
People might be inspired to put their back into it a little more if we didn't hear in the news every week that some two million head pig farm was caught spilling runoff into the drinking water, or this or that celebrity or billionaire was using their private jet to pick up some groceries or something, or this oil spill, or that accidental dumping of plastic pellets in the river, etc.

Cumulatively I believe we can in fact make a difference, but when a single incident can undo a years worth of all the efforts of everyone in four states it kind of takes the wind out of it. Get money out of politics so politicians can enact strong but sensible laws to monetarily incentivize corporations to reduce pollution. Cork that crap then we might feel like we can make a difference without it being undone in two seconds of idiocy on an industrial scale.
 
2022-08-15 9:22:23 AM  

SpectroBoy: Oh look, another article trying to pin climate change on individuals instead mega corporations and politicians.

How many SUVs would I need to not drive to cover ONE panamax container ship running for one hour?
How far below zero would I need to keep my house in the winter?


Nice framing here.

The choice is about the size of the car and temperature of the house.
 
2022-08-15 9:22:24 AM  
Maybe reducing the human population to around 50k would be in our best interests.

I call a spot in the 50K
Called it

And those 50k could drive F350 sup-r diesels and burn coal cause there wouldn't be too many.

The rest of you report to the molecular disintegration station.   The world demands it.
 
2022-08-15 9:24:14 AM  

SpectroBoy: Nimbull: Who's buying the mega corporations products? Without those individuals buying the products the companies wouldn't exist right now. There would be something else around.

I understand your point but what choice is there?
For example, what made in America cell phone do you recommend?
Is it up to consumers to find out where chips and circuit board were made when buying a computer?

This needs to be addressed by laws and policies, not by shaming consumers who are not in control (IMO)


There's always a choice. You could either find out more about that cell phone for example before buying or not. You could chose to find out more about the internals or not. Choice is always there but impulse purchase reflex blunts it most of the times.

Besides... blasting at the mega companies has done so well so far. I mean look at all the change accomplished by shaming them as they walk in to the bank with their next deposit from all the sales to the individuals they racked up. Working well for sure!

People have chosen to destroy the Earth around them by enabling these businesses with their purchases. The bed is almost made and it's getting near time to sleep in it.
 
2022-08-15 9:25:21 AM  

SpectroBoy: Oh look, another article trying to pin climate change on individuals instead mega corporations and politicians.

How many SUVs would I need to not drive to cover ONE panamax container ship running for one hour?
How far below zero would I need to keep my house in the winter?


I don't disagree with you, that commercial and industrial emissions are the main culprit. Americans produce about 20% of our greenhouse gasses though, so we CAN make an impact. Just not if the people are the only ones making decisions based on the climate and companies just keep on polluting.
 
2022-08-15 9:28:20 AM  

wingedkat: I'd love to install solar panels and drive an electric car.  I don't have the upfront cash to pay for those things.

I've looked into the subsidies and incentives, and they don't make the changes affordable for me right now.

I've considered the electric scooter... or electric motorcycle maybe?  But I haven't looked into those options seriously yet.


I haven't checked the details, but I read that the Inflation Reduction Act has some provision with incentives for home solar installations. It could make the initial cost less painful.
 
2022-08-15 9:28:34 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Guys, I forgot to recycle that can of tuna 12 years ago. I'm sorry. It's all my fault.


Actually it's my fault. I've been dumping old paint, motor oil, and used antifreeze down the storm drain for the last 20 years.  Didn't know I wasn't supposed to do that.  My bad.
 
2022-08-15 9:28:34 AM  
The trouble is consumers can only do so much.  If we want individuals to do the right thing, we have to make the right thing the easiest option. If it is hard to do or costs too much, people won't do it.

That means the collective needs to step up and make the right choices, and that means governments and corporations need to come together.

The individuals willing and able to put in the extra cost and effort to do things right just can't do enough to make a meaningful difference, no matter how hard we try.
 
2022-08-15 9:29:09 AM  

Harry Freakstorm: Maybe reducing the human population to around 50k would be in our best interests.

I call a spot in the 50K
Called it

And those 50k could drive F350 sup-r diesels and burn coal cause there wouldn't be too many.

The rest of you report to the molecular disintegration station.   The world demands it.


The Thanosian solution
 
2022-08-15 9:29:16 AM  

EBN-OZN: wingedkat: I'd love to install solar panels and drive an electric car.  I don't have the upfront cash to pay for those things.

I've looked into the subsidies and incentives, and they don't make the changes affordable for me right now.

I've considered the electric scooter... or electric motorcycle maybe?  But I haven't looked into those options seriously yet.

I haven't checked the details, but I read that the Inflation Reduction Act has some provision with incentives for home solar installations. It could make the initial cost less painful.


Yeah, I'm watching that too.
 
2022-08-15 9:29:23 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: An individual person has little to no impact on global warming*, unless they're a head of state or the owner of a fossil fuel company. Shifting the blame to the consumer is what polluters do to try and avoid responsibility.

*The phrase "climate change" was invented by polluters to try and make global warming sound less scary.


I had an actual climate scientist stop me mid-sentence and kind of angrily correct me when I referred to it as "global warming," insisting that it was "climate change."

From what I understood, it was the average moron right-winger being all "Hurr, it's cold outside today, so much for global warming!" There's probably a more advanced reason as well.

/Then there's the unintended side-effect of changing the name of something making it loose credibility in the eyes of the idiots
//Every time a Z-list scientist suggests changing the name again, Fox will trumpet this from the mountaintops as something that all climate scientists want to do.
///We'll know it happened again because the magats will be shoehorning in this totally real second change in every conversation about the topic.
 
2022-08-15 9:29:32 AM  

howdoibegin: SpectroBoy: How many SUVs would I need to not drive to cover ONE panamax container ship running for one hour?

That's a self-own in my opinion. What the are container ships doing if not satiating consumer demand for things - like parts for heavier-rather-than-lighter vehicles, uh just to pick one random consumer demand?


Not really. Consumerism is driven by marketing not desire. Consumers didn't demand the global economy produce absurd waste just to ship tchockies around the world, and we didn't insist they be made in Taiwan or China to save a few bucks on the manufacturing.
 
2022-08-15 9:29:49 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: An individual person has little to no impact on global warming*, unless they're a head of state or the owner of a fossil fuel company. Shifting the blame to the consumer is what polluters do to try and avoid responsibility.

*The phrase "climate change" was invented by polluters to try and make global warming sound less scary.


Well we do know how much Al Gore pollutes the planet.

"The term global warmingwent mainstream in the late 1980s, when NASA scientist James Hansen testified before Congress that the scientific community could "ascribe with a high degree of confidence a cause and effect relationship" between greenhouse gases and global warming. In 2006, former Vice President Al Gore gave the phrase another major boost when he released the documentary An Inconvenient Truth, which explained the concept of global warming and the mounting scientific evidence that humans are treading a dangerous path if we don't reduce our carbon emissions."

https://www.dictionary.com/e/new-words-surrounding-climate-change/#global-warming-and-greenhouse-gases
 
2022-08-15 9:30:42 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: An individual person has little to no impact on global warming*, unless they're a head of state or the owner of a fossil fuel company. Shifting the blame to the consumer is what polluters do to try and avoid responsibility.

*The phrase "climate change" was invented by polluters to try and make global warming sound less scary.


I thought climate change was picked because it prevented idiots from going "well, it's cold out right now!"
 
2022-08-15 9:31:27 AM  

SpectroBoy: Oh look, another article trying to pin climate change on individuals instead mega corporations and politicians.

How many SUVs would I need to not drive to cover ONE panamax container ship running for one hour?
How far below zero would I need to keep my house in the winter?


A post-Panamax container ship is the most efficient vehicle per ton-mile ever devised, a jacked up disel one ton carrying Cletus to work among the least.
 
2022-08-15 9:32:28 AM  

SpectroBoy: Oh look, another article trying to pin climate change on individuals instead mega corporations and politicians.


And to the extent that consumer goods contribute, history tells us that it's far more effective to change what's available than to ask the public to make better choices. When we needed to cut out CFCs, we didn't just ask the public to stop using so much hairspray or whatever. We banned them at the manufacturing level and voila, the problem was solved without having to get every single person on the planet on board with it.
 
2022-08-15 9:32:36 AM  

Nimbull: SpectroBoy: Oh look, another article trying to pin climate change on individuals instead mega corporations and politicians.

How many SUVs would I need to not drive to cover ONE panamax container ship running for one hour?
How far below zero would I need to keep my house in the winter?

Who's buying the mega corporations products? Without those individuals buying the products the companies wouldn't exist right now. There would be something else around.


The issue is overseas manufacturing. Basically, the climate was hosed as soon as it became cheaper to build something in China and ship it here. And that's not the consumers fault, that's corporate greed.  Sure, consumers like lower priced goods, but manufacturing savings aren't passed on to them.
 
2022-08-15 9:33:15 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: An individual person has little to no impact on global warming*, unless they're a head of state or the owner of a fossil fuel company. Shifting the blame to the consumer is what polluters do to try and avoid responsibility.

*The phrase "climate change" was invented by polluters to try and make global warming sound less scary.


Is that really true? I thought it was to head off "if the earth is warming why did it just snow durr hurr?" And emphasize that it causes wild fluctuations in weather.
 
2022-08-15 9:33:46 AM  
So, no different from all the other times we've been unwilling to admit that even minor changes could've had great effect on everything from homelessness to hunger, from obesity to COVID-19, then?

This is my shocked face. I'm still staying home.
 
2022-08-15 9:33:48 AM  
We don't care about the climate or our effect on it; we got a Ford C-MAX Energi plug-in hybrid because it is a totally biatchin' whip*.

* Except the dumb 17" rims; those had to go. We sourced OEM Focus 16" alloys and I got those powder-coated** to match the trim.

** Seriously. Spent more on that than we did on the used rims.
 
2022-08-15 9:33:57 AM  

wingedkat: I'd love to install solar panels and drive an electric car.  I don't have the upfront cash to pay for those things.

I've looked into the subsidies and incentives, and they don't make the changes affordable for me right now.

I've considered the electric scooter... or electric motorcycle maybe?  But I haven't looked into those options seriously yet.


If you own your house, you could use some of your equity to pay for the solar panels. Which will give you a bit of a bump in value. Though not quite what you spent.
 
2022-08-15 9:34:56 AM  

wingedkat: I'd love to install solar panels and drive an electric car.  I don't have the upfront cash to pay for those things.

I've looked into the subsidies and incentives, and they don't make the changes affordable for me right now.

I've considered the electric scooter... or electric motorcycle maybe?  But I haven't looked into those options seriously yet.


I found a third-party site (that is, one that's not trying to sell me anything) that calculated the cost-benefit for solar panels at my address. It said over the course of 20 years, I would save $200 a year. Meh.

/Then there's also the small matter of
how I'll need a new roof relatively soon.
 
2022-08-15 9:35:05 AM  

robodog: SpectroBoy: Oh look, another article trying to pin climate change on individuals instead mega corporations and politicians.

How many SUVs would I need to not drive to cover ONE panamax container ship running for one hour?
How far below zero would I need to keep my house in the winter?

A post-Panamax container ship is the most efficient vehicle per ton-mile ever devised, a jacked up disel one ton carrying Cletus to work among the least.


And yet one container ship may cause as much pollution as 50 million cars. Perhaps if we reduced both driving and shopping, our impact would be greater?
 
2022-08-15 9:35:14 AM  

wingedkat: I'd love to install solar panels and drive an electric car.  I don't have the upfront cash to pay for those things.

I've looked into the subsidies and incentives, and they don't make the changes affordable for me right now.

I've considered the electric scooter... or electric motorcycle maybe?  But I haven't looked into those options seriously yet.


Electric bikes are very good EV transport.  Good range and quick recharge for their size. And backup mobility if you run out of juice.

You are right though. If the government wanted to be really serious about climate change it would pay a lot for solar roofs,
Trade in your old car for an ev.

Subsidize manufacturers to create electric atv/utv.  And all that and give a heavy trading to get gas models into the shredder.

Old smoky the outboard could be traded in for an electric Model. Heck I would go so far as any lake under a certain size ban gas engines.

People are already starting to see some economic benefits from switching to ev's.  But the government needs more incentives to the user.

Just really good, reliable and available public transport would be a good start for many people.
 
2022-08-15 9:36:08 AM  

Fireproof: Tyrone Slothrop: An individual person has little to no impact on global warming*, unless they're a head of state or the owner of a fossil fuel company. Shifting the blame to the consumer is what polluters do to try and avoid responsibility.

*The phrase "climate change" was invented by polluters to try and make global warming sound less scary.

I had an actual climate scientist stop me mid-sentence and kind of angrily correct me when I referred to it as "global warming," insisting that it was "climate change."

From what I understood, it was the average moron right-winger being all "Hurr, it's cold outside today, so much for global warming!" There's probably a more advanced reason as well.

/Then there's the unintended side-effect of changing the name of something making it loose credibility in the eyes of the idiots
//Every time a Z-list scientist suggests changing the name again, Fox will trumpet this from the mountaintops as something that all climate scientists want to do.
///We'll know it happened again because the magats will be shoehorning in this totally real second change in every conversation about the topic.


"Hurr, it's cold outside today, so much for global warming!"

But a flood in Kentucky is absolute proof that global warming exists?
 
2022-08-15 9:36:09 AM  

tricycleracer: Nimbull: SpectroBoy: Oh look, another article trying to pin climate change on individuals instead mega corporations and politicians.

How many SUVs would I need to not drive to cover ONE panamax container ship running for one hour?
How far below zero would I need to keep my house in the winter?

Who's buying the mega corporations products? Without those individuals buying the products the companies wouldn't exist right now. There would be something else around.

Blame the stockholders then.  They demand that corporations satiate every desire of the masses to everyone's detriment.

No one will die if they don't get that 3rd air fryer.


Companies treating their stock as their only real product is for sure a big part of the problem.

We can kind of make an individual impact, but its a bit like trying to put out a house fire with a cup of water.
 
2022-08-15 9:38:50 AM  
My biggest frustration is the emphasis on individual responsibility.

I spent years barely able to pay for my bills while recycling and bicycle commuting and buying local and turning the temp up/down seasonally and gardening and conserving water and reusing and all of the "right things" while fighting for space in the streets with SUVs and watching sprinklers run gallons of water into the streets outside the golf course and farmers water their alfalfa fields to use up their water allotments and plastic bags fill the parks and rivers and landfills and I am exhausted and old and in pain now.

Government needs to step in to make it happen.  It is too much for individuals.
 
2022-08-15 9:40:37 AM  

wingedkat: I'd love to install solar panels and drive an electric car.  I don't have the upfront cash to pay for those things.

I've looked into the subsidies and incentives, and they don't make the changes affordable for me right now.

I've considered the electric scooter... or electric motorcycle maybe?  But I haven't looked into those options seriously yet.


In Tucson you can buy solar blocks and theoretically support and draw from that grid.
I paid for like 6 blocks it's 36 books a month or something but it's a different billing so I'm not sure how it actually works out. Don't really care.

The really cheap way overall to go 100% solar with no investment cost upfront.
 
2022-08-15 9:40:57 AM  

SpectroBoy: Oh look, another article trying to pin climate change on individuals instead mega corporations and politicians.

How many SUVs would I need to not drive to cover ONE panamax container ship running for one hour?
How far below zero would I need to keep my house in the winter?


People buy things from mega-corporations (whatever the hell that is), which is why that panamax container ship is running. But it is also true that any particular individual does not have a big effect. So it has to be a collective action.

So good luck with that in the USA. Of course, our CO2 output has fallen significantly over the last decade or so, but anyway I forgot what I was saying.

/Millenium hand and shrimp!
//more like WILLennium hand and shrimp am I right!?
 
2022-08-15 9:41:09 AM  

EBN-OZN: wingedkat: I'd love to install solar panels and drive an electric car.  I don't have the upfront cash to pay for those things.

I've looked into the subsidies and incentives, and they don't make the changes affordable for me right now.

I've considered the electric scooter... or electric motorcycle maybe?  But I haven't looked into those options seriously yet.

I haven't checked the details, but I read that the Inflation Reduction Act has some provision with incentives for home solar installations. It could make the initial cost less painful.


Yeah, but is it a grant? You can spend 30k putting solar panels on your house, but if the government just knocks it off your taxes you still have to have the 30k to begin with.
 
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