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(The US Sun)   Putin to 20,000 of his orcs stranded in Ukraine: "Good luck, you're on your own"   (the-sun.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Ukraine, Russia, Nuclear power, Russian troops, Black Sea, Kiev, Belarus, Chernobyl disaster  
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8531 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 15 Aug 2022 at 2:50 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-08-15 2:56:23 AM  
c.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-15 2:56:55 AM  
When you set people up for failure...Don't expect them to be too happy about it..And if failure means
they might get killed due to your setup...You should probably watch your butt, General....
 
2022-08-15 2:57:44 AM  
Oh, dear.

I have a bad feeling that meat is not back on the menu at all.
 
2022-08-15 2:58:44 AM  
Err - as much as I hate Russia's barbarian bullshiat in attacking Ukraine, when you get surprise sexed in the face outta nowhere, and it's either bail with the majority of your forces intact - leaving some behind - or lose all your force trying to get everyone out - you bail.  Non-bastards will then generally make plans to reunite with the cutoff remnant and pull them out or resume operations, but standing there and getting turned into hamburger 'cause you haven't got everyone yet is a damn good way to get defeated/dead
 
2022-08-15 3:07:12 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Err - as much as I hate Russia's barbarian bullshiat in attacking Ukraine, when you get surprise sexed in the face outta nowhere, and it's either bail with the majority of your forces intact - leaving some behind - or lose all your force trying to get everyone out - you bail.  Non-bastards will then generally make plans to reunite with the cutoff remnant and pull them out or resume operations, but standing there and getting turned into hamburger 'cause you haven't got everyone yet is a damn good way to get defeated/dead


As opposed to that happening anyway.
 
2022-08-15 3:08:28 AM  
Make them an offer they can't refuse. Switch sides or die. Italy did it.
 
2022-08-15 3:11:15 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-15 3:15:17 AM  
c.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-15 3:16:37 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Err - as much as I hate Russia's barbarian bullshiat in attacking Ukraine, when you get surprise sexed in the face outta nowhere, and it's either bail with the majority of your forces intact - leaving some behind - or lose all your force trying to get everyone out - you bail.  Non-bastards will then generally make plans to reunite with the cutoff remnant and pull them out or resume operations, but standing there and getting turned into hamburger 'cause you haven't got everyone yet is a damn good way to get defeated/dead

As opposed to that happening anyway.


Might well, but standing there with your thumb up your ass because you've got some people cut off guarantees it.  Sure, they're farking dicks, but it sounds like someone is a dick that has their head on straight tactically
 
2022-08-15 3:25:35 AM  
Enjoy your future careers as "soil enhancers."
 
2022-08-15 3:36:41 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-15 3:38:59 AM  
Putin added "Sucks to be you guys. Maybe kill a few fascists before you die. This may or may not involve friendly fire."
 
2022-08-15 3:39:08 AM  
y.yarn.coView Full Size
 
2022-08-15 3:42:11 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-15 3:45:13 AM  
Next year the sunflowers will be growing in very rich soil indeed.
 
2022-08-15 3:50:15 AM  
See ,everyone?  This is proof of just how well the Russian offensive is going.  If Putin can ditch 20,000 soldiers without a second thought, that means he's gotta be winning big everywhere without them, right?  Think of it like Jeff Bezos losing some pocket change.  No biggie.

If Putin really wants to convince me he's unstoppable, he should pull a move like this every day.  It's guaranteed to make him look invincible.
 
2022-08-15 3:53:40 AM  
It sounds like a lot of POWs in the best case scenario (for them at least).
 
2022-08-15 3:59:41 AM  
They'll trade their arms for safe passage home where Putin will quietly ship them off to the gulag.
 
2022-08-15 4:09:03 AM  

adamatari: It sounds like a lot of POWs in the best case scenario (for them at least).


Debatable - even cut off 20,000 is a farkload of soldiers - too many to just roll over.  If they're an even remotely cohesive bunch and not scattered all over from here to Christmas, they're still dangerous as hell.  With that many you could quite easily attempt a breakout to rejoin if you could cross the obstacles, or even to head for some other route to comparative safety.  If they're not already willing to surrender, they're going to have to surround them, keep them cut off/keep them from breaking out, and keep the main detachment of orcs from relieving them - which can be a hell of an interesting time when you've got that many goons in the pocket.  If all goes well for Ukraine, that bunch will surrender, or will be successfully kept cut off/in place until lack of resupply forces that surrender.  If not?  Ukraine has 20k bastards wandering around nearly at will making one hell of a mess

/since Ukraine has shown they have some understanding of how to do this, I'd imagine a plan to keep them pinned is in place already
//but that's still potentially chancy
///20,000 is a lot of damn force to deal with
 
2022-08-15 4:12:42 AM  
I know its propaganda, but it does make me feel warm and fuzzy inside (as it's supposed to).
 
2022-08-15 4:13:07 AM  
That's two entire divisions worth of troops, and he has already lost four divisions worth of troops in this war.  Sure, the individual soldiers can be replaced with conscripts, but not all the weapons, gear, and vehicles that are gonna get left behind, and the quality of the replacements is going to suffer with fewer veterans on hand to train them.
 
2022-08-15 4:18:53 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Debatable - even cut off 20,000 is a farkload of soldiers - too many to just roll over. If they're an even remotely cohesive bunch and not scattered all over from here to Christmas, they're still dangerous as hell.


Without supply lines, that danger won't last very long.
 
2022-08-15 4:21:29 AM  

Ragin' Asian: They'll trade their arms for safe passage home where Putin will quietly ship them off to the gulag.


In a couple of days, they'll trade their guns for food.

Then Igor will shoot them and take his food back.
 
2022-08-15 4:22:38 AM  

Bloody William: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Debatable - even cut off 20,000 is a farkload of soldiers - too many to just roll over. If they're an even remotely cohesive bunch and not scattered all over from here to Christmas, they're still dangerous as hell.

Without supply lines, that danger won't last very long.


But with 20,000 shiatheads available, "Supplies?  How about taking them from those towns/depots/etc. over there?" totally becomes an option.  Therein lies the problem.  You can easily end up with 20k heavily armed bandits shiatting up vast swathes of territory would be the issue
 
2022-08-15 4:23:49 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Err - as much as I hate Russia's barbarian bullshiat in attacking Ukraine, when you get surprise sexed in the face outta nowhere, and it's either bail with the majority of your forces intact - leaving some behind - or lose all your force trying to get everyone out - you bail.  Non-bastards will then generally make plans to reunite with the cutoff remnant and pull them out or resume operations, but standing there and getting turned into hamburger 'cause you haven't got everyone yet is a damn good way to get defeated/dead


We can talk about non-bastards, but this is more of a case of how non-moron leadership would've never stranded so many men across a river their enemy could crossing of at will this way...
 
2022-08-15 4:24:40 AM  

Bloody William: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Debatable - even cut off 20,000 is a farkload of soldiers - too many to just roll over. If they're an even remotely cohesive bunch and not scattered all over from here to Christmas, they're still dangerous as hell.

Without supply lines, that danger won't last very long.


Exactly.

20,000 troops isn't much of a threat when they're weak from starvation and dehydration.
 
2022-08-15 4:25:29 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Bloody William: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Debatable - even cut off 20,000 is a farkload of soldiers - too many to just roll over. If they're an even remotely cohesive bunch and not scattered all over from here to Christmas, they're still dangerous as hell.

Without supply lines, that danger won't last very long.

But with 20,000 shiatheads available, "Supplies?  How about taking them from those towns/depots/etc. over there?" totally becomes an option.  Therein lies the problem.  You can easily end up with 20k heavily armed bandits shiatting up vast swathes of territory would be the issue


Ugh - jumped the gun on the post button.  Meant to add that cutting off 20,000 of the enemy can easily turn into a dog that actually caught the car he was chasing situation.  Now what do you do with it?
 
2022-08-15 4:26:45 AM  

erik-k: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Err - as much as I hate Russia's barbarian bullshiat in attacking Ukraine, when you get surprise sexed in the face outta nowhere, and it's either bail with the majority of your forces intact - leaving some behind - or lose all your force trying to get everyone out - you bail.  Non-bastards will then generally make plans to reunite with the cutoff remnant and pull them out or resume operations, but standing there and getting turned into hamburger 'cause you haven't got everyone yet is a damn good way to get defeated/dead

We can talk about non-bastards, but this is more of a case of how non-moron leadership would've never stranded so many men across a river their enemy could crossing of at will this way...


No argument - splitting your force like that with an easily destructible one route only connection is not generally reccomended
 
2022-08-15 4:27:38 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Bloody William: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Debatable - even cut off 20,000 is a farkload of soldiers - too many to just roll over. If they're an even remotely cohesive bunch and not scattered all over from here to Christmas, they're still dangerous as hell.

Without supply lines, that danger won't last very long.

But with 20,000 shiatheads available, "Supplies?  How about taking them from those towns/depots/etc. over there?" totally becomes an option.  Therein lies the problem.  You can easily end up with 20k heavily armed bandits shiatting up vast swathes of territory would be the issue


In case you haven't noticed, Ukrainian civilians got this crazy notion of "fighting back."

Maybe next time don't invade a country where most of the adults over 50 have at least some Red Army training.
 
2022-08-15 4:29:56 AM  
negotiate a surrender. The Ukraine keeps all their stuff and they get a boat ride to a far away place.
 
2022-08-15 4:31:35 AM  

stoli n coke: Maybe next time don't invade a country where most of the adults over 50 have at least some Red Army training.


Is there anything that "Red Army" can't do?
 
2022-08-15 4:32:27 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Bloody William: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Debatable - even cut off 20,000 is a farkload of soldiers - too many to just roll over. If they're an even remotely cohesive bunch and not scattered all over from here to Christmas, they're still dangerous as hell.

Without supply lines, that danger won't last very long.

But with 20,000 shiatheads available, "Supplies?  How about taking them from those towns/depots/etc. over there?" totally becomes an option.  Therein lies the problem.  You can easily end up with 20k heavily armed bandits shiatting up vast swathes of territory would be the issue


Not the best option when, without actively getting their supplies replenished, they'll quickly find themselves without even fuel for vehicles to move, at best getting patchwork bits from any vulnerable areas they can find while on the land of an enemy that's already established that they're very intent on kicking out invaders. They're in a bad position, and 20,000 soldiers not getting more gas and bullets and food every day are not going to be in a place where they can raid towns for very long.
 
2022-08-15 4:32:39 AM  

NotARocketScientist: negotiate a surrender. The Ukraine keeps all their stuff and they get a boat ride to a far away place.


The boat is then shot and sank by Russian Tank, courtesy of Crazy Igor.

"You want tank? We have tank. Look. Is tank."
 
2022-08-15 4:33:02 AM  

winedrinkingman: That's two entire divisions worth of troops, and he has already lost four divisions worth of troops in this war.  Sure, the individual soldiers can be replaced with conscripts, but not all the weapons, gear, and vehicles that are gonna get left behind, and the quality of the replacements is going to suffer with fewer veterans on hand to train them.


The thing is, they're not two divisions.  They're more like parts of ten divisions, all with different commands.  Putin panicked and threw units into the pocket piecemeal, many of them not successfully reconstituted.  Here's what's there right now:

ISW has observed elements of the 35th and 36th Combined Arms Armies (CAA) of the Eastern Military District (EMD), the 22nd Army Corps of the Black Sea Fleet, the 49th CAA of the Southern Military District (SMD), 76th Guards Air Assault Division, and Rosgvardia throughout Southern Ukraine.[19]
 
2022-08-15 4:33:36 AM  

stoli n coke: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Bloody William: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Debatable - even cut off 20,000 is a farkload of soldiers - too many to just roll over. If they're an even remotely cohesive bunch and not scattered all over from here to Christmas, they're still dangerous as hell.

Without supply lines, that danger won't last very long.

But with 20,000 shiatheads available, "Supplies?  How about taking them from those towns/depots/etc. over there?" totally becomes an option.  Therein lies the problem.  You can easily end up with 20k heavily armed bandits shiatting up vast swathes of territory would be the issue

In case you haven't noticed, Ukrainian civilians got this crazy notion of "fighting back."

Maybe next time don't invade a country where most of the adults over 50 have at least some Red Army training.


Well sure - as I pointed out Ukraine DOES know how to do this shiat - proven time after time.  BUT regarding 20k soldiers, even cut off, as done and over with as a factor in the fighting?  That would be actively farking suicidal - they absolutely have options with that many goons - and Ukraine obviously would be aware of that.  I can guarantee you they are not being disregarded unless Ukraine has had a sudden attack of complete incompetence
 
2022-08-15 4:35:40 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: ISW has observed elements of the 35th and 36th Combined Arms Armies (CAA) of the Eastern Military District (EMD), the 22nd Army Corps of the Black Sea Fleet, the 49th CAA of the Southern Military District (SMD), 76th Guards Air Assault Division, and Rosgvardia throughout Southern Ukraine.[19]


That's army, navy, air force, and home defense units all operating in the same space.
 
2022-08-15 4:36:48 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Well sure - as I pointed out Ukraine DOES know how to do this shiat - proven time after time. BUT regarding 20k soldiers, even cut off, as done and over with as a factor in the fighting? That would be actively farking suicidal - they absolutely have options with that many goons - and Ukraine obviously would be aware of that. I can guarantee you they are not being disregarded unless Ukraine has had a sudden attack of complete incompetence


Of course they're being regarded as a threat. Any enemy on your soil is a threat. It doesn't mean an abandoned battalion is in a remotely good position.
 
2022-08-15 4:41:23 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: stoli n coke: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Bloody William: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Debatable - even cut off 20,000 is a farkload of soldiers - too many to just roll over. If they're an even remotely cohesive bunch and not scattered all over from here to Christmas, they're still dangerous as hell.

Without supply lines, that danger won't last very long.

But with 20,000 shiatheads available, "Supplies?  How about taking them from those towns/depots/etc. over there?" totally becomes an option.  Therein lies the problem.  You can easily end up with 20k heavily armed bandits shiatting up vast swathes of territory would be the issue

In case you haven't noticed, Ukrainian civilians got this crazy notion of "fighting back."

Maybe next time don't invade a country where most of the adults over 50 have at least some Red Army training.

Well sure - as I pointed out Ukraine DOES know how to do this shiat - proven time after time.  BUT regarding 20k soldiers, even cut off, as done and over with as a factor in the fighting?  That would be actively farking suicidal - they absolutely have options with that many goons - and Ukraine obviously would be aware of that.  I can guarantee you they are not being disregarded unless Ukraine has had a sudden attack of complete incompetence


But we're talking 20,000 with no clear leadership structure. As someone said, these are scraps from multiple divisions, and the commanders have abandoned them.

Remember in Apocalypse Now when Sheen comes up on a group of soldiers in a firefight and asks "Who's in command here?," only for the soldier to reply in terror "Ain't you?" That's the situation these guys are in now.
 
2022-08-15 4:45:39 AM  

Bloody William: Of course they're being regarded as a threat. Any enemy on your soil is a threat. It doesn't mean an abandoned battalion is in a remotely good position.


stoli n coke: But we're talking 20,000 with no clear leadership structure. As someone said, these are scraps from multiple divisions, and the commanders have abandoned them.

Remember in Apocalypse Now when Sheen comes up on a group of soldiers in a firefight and asks "Who's in command here?," only for the soldier to reply in terror "Ain't you?" That's the situation these guys are in now.


You're both right, but both the tone of the linked article and a lot of replies here are pretty much, "Welp, they're farked that's the end of them."  And that's one hell of an assumption.  Sure they're odds and sods, but dumber shiat has cohered into a breakout force before - pick your military history period of choice there are plenty of examples.  When you've cut off a really damn large detachment, and have them in the pocket, regarding them as already done with is up there with starting a land war in Asia on the classic mistakes list, and has led to a lot of humiliating snatching defeat from the jaws of victory situations.  All I'm saying here is, "While this is great, and it's probably gonna result in a lot of prisoners eventually, don't count them out right now 'cause that's the way many, many commanders over the years have ended up tripping over their own dicks."  Nothing more
 
2022-08-15 4:46:49 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: ISW has observed elements of the 35th and 36th Combined Arms Armies (CAA) of the Eastern Military District (EMD), the 22nd Army Corps of the Black Sea Fleet, the 49th CAA of the Southern Military District (SMD), 76th Guards Air Assault Division, and Rosgvardia throughout Southern Ukraine.[19]

That's army, navy, air force, and home defense units all operating in the same space.


So even if they do have some Sergeants or lower level officers, they're going off potentially 4 different playbooks.
 
2022-08-15 4:57:10 AM  
So just wait til winter and they'll all freeze to death.
 
2022-08-15 5:08:56 AM  
I remember reading at one time how many of Putin's goons were only marginally loyal.. My guess is there will be a large number of these troops willing to sit it out, especially if they are hungry and getting even halfway decent grub and shelter as POWs.
 
2022-08-15 5:17:45 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Bloody William: Of course they're being regarded as a threat. Any enemy on your soil is a threat. It doesn't mean an abandoned battalion is in a remotely good position.

stoli n coke: But we're talking 20,000 with no clear leadership structure. As someone said, these are scraps from multiple divisions, and the commanders have abandoned them.

Remember in Apocalypse Now when Sheen comes up on a group of soldiers in a firefight and asks "Who's in command here?," only for the soldier to reply in terror "Ain't you?" That's the situation these guys are in now.

You're both right, but both the tone of the linked article and a lot of replies here are pretty much, "Welp, they're farked that's the end of them."  And that's one hell of an assumption.  Sure they're odds and sods, but dumber shiat has cohered into a breakout force before - pick your military history period of choice there are plenty of examples.  When you've cut off a really damn large detachment, and have them in the pocket, regarding them as already done with is up there with starting a land war in Asia on the classic mistakes list, and has led to a lot of humiliating snatching defeat from the jaws of victory situations.  All I'm saying here is, "While this is great, and it's probably gonna result in a lot of prisoners eventually, don't count them out right now 'cause that's the way many, many commanders over the years have ended up tripping over their own dicks."  Nothing more


There's also the problem of compartmentalization in the Russian military.

Our military seems to train enlisted and NCOs to come up with plans in the absence of direct leadership from command.

Enlisted and conscripts in this Russian army were told they were going to Ukraine for a 2-week training exercise. They're not taught anything above their rank and specific job.
 
2022-08-15 5:23:00 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: When you've cut off a really damn large detachment, and have them in the pocket, regarding them as already done with is up there with starting a land war in Asia on the classic mistakes list, and has led to a lot of humiliating snatching defeat from the jaws of victory situations. All I'm saying here is, "While this is great, and it's probably gonna result in a lot of prisoners eventually, don't count them out right now 'cause that's the way many, many commanders over the years have ended up tripping over their own dicks." Nothing more


Ukraine hasn't been trouncing the Russian invaders so thoroughly by failing to see the seriousness of every situation. They won't underestimate the potential dangers here, nor are they likely to hesitate in taking action while they hold the advantage. If that 20,000 doesn't surrender, their future is likely to be very bleak and short.
 
2022-08-15 5:34:05 AM  
This is the weirdest Twilight 2000 scenario ever.
 
2022-08-15 5:55:50 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Err - as much as I hate Russia's barbarian bullshiat in attacking Ukraine, when you get surprise sexed in the face outta nowhere, and it's either bail with the majority of your forces intact - leaving some behind - or lose all your force trying to get everyone out - you bail.  Non-bastards will then generally make plans to reunite with the cutoff remnant and pull them out or resume operations, but standing there and getting turned into hamburger 'cause you haven't got everyone yet is a damn good way to get defeated/dead


i.imgflip.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-15 6:03:21 AM  
Propaganda is a hell of a drug.  Hitching your wagon to someone who doesn't give a fark about you?  Great idea.
 
2022-08-15 6:08:20 AM  
METALLICA- Kill 'Em All REMASTER [Full Album] HD
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2022-08-15 6:13:31 AM  

ViolentEastCoastCity: Propaganda is a hell of a drug.  Hitching your wagon to someone who doesn't give a fark about you?  Great idea.


Isn't that right-wing ideaology in a nutshell?
 
2022-08-15 6:14:35 AM  

Smoking GNU: ViolentEastCoastCity: Propaganda is a hell of a drug.  Hitching your wagon to someone who doesn't give a fark about you?  Great idea.

Isn't that right-wing ideaology in a nutshell?


Indeed it is!  I sometimes wonder how anyone can think Putin is good or his cause just.  Then I remember, propaganda.
 
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