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(Guardian)   A rare example of a headline asking a question where the answer is yes   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Cat, Predation, elaborate bird rescue mission, book Cat Wars, domestic cats, bird numbers, UK cat owners, cats  
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6295 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Aug 2022 at 6:35 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



150 Comments     (+0 »)
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2022-08-14 3:19:03 PM  
Humans are far worse for the planet than cats could ever be.  Somebody should do something about them.
 
2022-08-14 3:23:18 PM  
Roaming cats control the rodent population.  If a cat gets the drop on a bird because it didn't fly away in time, it's the bird's fault.
 
2022-08-14 3:27:41 PM  
I think pet cats should be kept inside because they live longer, healthier lives.

Working cats, cats who are feral beyond the poi t that they can become pets, should be placed in appropriate locations, cared for, and well-respected as the public health measure they are.
 
2022-08-14 3:32:12 PM  
Yes. Outdoor cats are the biggest killer of songbirds and native fauna. They kill indiscriminately
 
2022-08-14 3:35:33 PM  
In nature there is no right or wrong, there are actions and consequences.
 
2022-08-14 4:24:25 PM  
My cat is gone after 15 years in the forest. Cancer got him, not coyotes or mountain lions or eagles or cars. I'd rather he murdered a few thousand rodents and birds than me because I didn't let him out.

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Fuck cancer.
 
2022-08-14 4:59:42 PM  
We had an outdoor cat when I was a kid. My mom belled the cat and that thing still killed birds and rodents.
 
2022-08-14 5:13:50 PM  
Cat says "No!", runs through open door.  Immediately hides behind bushes, says "YES!!!"

/just my cat?
 
2022-08-14 6:09:18 PM  
This we worry about. Pollution still no concern to many. Which do you think kills more animals?
 
2022-08-14 6:22:34 PM  

educated: I think pet cats should be kept inside because they live longer, healthier lives.

Working cats, cats who are feral beyond the poi t that they can become pets, should be placed in appropriate locations, cared for, and well-respected as the public health measure they are.


Add  be vaccinated and spayed and neutered to the feral cats idea and I'm in.
 
2022-08-14 6:31:58 PM  

namegoeshere: educated: I think pet cats should be kept inside because they live longer, healthier lives.

Working cats, cats who are feral beyond the poi t that they can become pets, should be placed in appropriate locations, cared for, and well-respected as the public health measure they are.

Add  be vaccinated and spayed and neutered to the feral cats idea and I'm in.


Yes. By "cared for" I mean spayed/neutered, regular health checks, regular vaccinations, and whatever affection/interaction they would like.
 
2022-08-14 6:41:29 PM  

edmo: This we worry about. Pollution still no concern to many. Which do you think kills more animals?


Windmills
 
2022-08-14 6:45:54 PM  

Jake Havechek: Roaming cats control the rodent population.  If a cat gets the drop on a bird because it didn't fly away in time, it's the bird's fault.


Tiny leopards Cats aren't exactly a natural predator for things like songbirds to have developed an equilibrium with.  The imbalance is huge.  It's like saying: if the velociraptor gets the drop on a park tourist because they didn't get away in time, it's the human's fault.
 
2022-08-14 6:47:39 PM  

Naido: Cat says "No!", runs through open door.  Immediately hides behind bushes, says "YES!!!"

/just my cat?


No, not just your cat. I've had 3 cats in my lifetime who did just the same thing.
"I'm free!"
"Oh, crap--what do I do now??"
 
2022-08-14 6:50:15 PM  
My cats meow, whine and sing the song of their people to get into the garage.

They'll sometimes get out to the garage, so i'll lock them out there until they are sorry for their poor life choices

Do they learn?

I will leave the answer as an exercise to the reader.

/Keep 'em indoors...
 
2022-08-14 6:50:42 PM  

question_dj: Yes. Outdoor cats are the biggest killer of songbirds and native fauna. They kill indiscriminately


Maybe if we could teach them to kill only invasive species...
 
2022-08-14 6:50:54 PM  
We used to let our cats out. Had a couple back in the 90's, bot of which wound up getting hit by cars. Now we no longer do that. Not to mention there are a couple feral cats roaming around here nowadays that we know haven't been neutered and have had litters of kittens. Couple that with their tendency to kill tons of wildlife and yeah, if it's a pet cat it belongs indoors.

A working barn cat or something I could see excuses for. But not if you just want a little furball to keep you company.

It's basically like the people who get a dog but then chain them up outside all day.
 
2022-08-14 6:52:03 PM  
I guess subby has never had birds nest right in front of their bedroom and aggressively chirp at you when you get anywhere near your own property.

Don't tread on cats
 
2022-08-14 6:52:57 PM  
If any bird species are on the Endangered Species List, it not due to cats.
 
2022-08-14 6:53:03 PM  
The American Bird Conservancy says 2.4 Billion song birds are supposedly killed by cats every year. That's 132K per State, per day.

MMMMBULLLLSHHHHIAT.
 
2022-08-14 6:58:15 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Humans are far worse for the planet than cats could ever be.  Somebody should do something about them.


Yes, and humans invented cats so part of dealing with the human problem means removing human-made things like pesticides, greenhouse gasses, and cats from the environment.
 
2022-08-14 6:58:21 PM  
So you're saying they kill a lot of pests.. almost like they're doing their intended job.
 
2022-08-14 6:58:22 PM  

The Pope of Manwich Village: The American Bird Conservancy says 2.4 Billion song birds are supposedly killed by cats every year. That's 132K per State, per day.

MMMMBULLLLSHHHHIAT.


There are over 50 million pet cats in the US, or about 1 million per state. So a cat only has to kill one animal per week (in fact slightly fewer) to make that number right. So....

MMMMMCORRREEECTTTT
 
2022-08-14 6:59:22 PM  
Used to have a hunting cat. Brought home a baby bunny rabbit. Ate it on the front porch. Kinda bummed me out.
 
2022-08-14 7:01:12 PM  
I compromised on this.  Screened in my porch so they could be outside if they wanted to, but keep them away from the wildlife and the street.  I've had to rescue one of them a few times because he decided to climb the screens to get at a pigeon that was sitting on the downspout and got stuck.

Then there's the time a bluejay was pecking at one of them while she was trying to bat at him, through the screen of course.  XD
 
2022-08-14 7:02:13 PM  

Spectrum: Used to have a hunting cat. Brought home a baby bunny rabbit. Ate it on the front porch. Kinda bummed me out.


I'm sure he was happy for the treat.
 
2022-08-14 7:02:45 PM  

Jake Havechek: Roaming cats control the rodent population.  If a cat gets the drop on a bird because it didn't fly away in time, it's the bird's fault.


Roaming cats kill an enormous number of birds and herps. Yes, I'm sure Fluffy is adorable, but she's one of the leading causes of bird death. Keep her inside.
 
2022-08-14 7:03:31 PM  
Sir, we've had reports of cats being denied their freedoms! On our way to investigate.....
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2022-08-14 7:03:33 PM  
Cats or rats? Choose wisely.
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2022-08-14 7:03:38 PM  

The Pope of Manwich Village: The American Bird Conservancy says 2.4 Billion song birds are supposedly killed by cats every year. That's 132K per State, per day.

MMMMBULLLLSHHHHIAT.


Here's the study https://abcbirds.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Loss_et_al._2013-Impacts_Outdoor_Cats.pdf Feel free to point out where it's wrong. I mean, I know your feelings say so, but maybe try for something substantial.

House cats are an ecological disaster.
 
2022-08-14 7:04:22 PM  
My elderly rescue cat is a purely indoor cat.  She only time she goes into the hunting stance is when I'm reheating pizza slices.
 
2022-08-14 7:05:09 PM  
My three (working) barn cats are 4 for 5 so far this week. 2 rats and 3 mice.
 
2022-08-14 7:08:51 PM  
The problem, Pirie says, is "the sheer number" of domestic cats. On average, a British pet cat brings home around five items of prey a year. Researchers estimate this is about 23% of their actual kills, which makes it about 22 kills a year.

Neat. So by that logic, my two boys have brought us all of 3 birds total in their 5 years with us (we got them when they were 4 months old and didn't want to separate the brothers). So with that being 23% they've killed a whopping 13 birds between the two of them. And that's if that number about the amount of kills brought home is correct.

Pretty certain cars kill more birds annually than that, both in strikes and in environmental changes.
 
2022-08-14 7:09:22 PM  
fark no.  Indoor cattery is cruel.
 
2022-08-14 7:11:42 PM  
We used to live across the street from the Cardinal's Residence, so obviously we had THE TALK with the cats not to cross the street.  Didn't want the Swiss Guard SWAT unit at our door if the red hat dude went missing.

Proposing the charging the cost of a vet visit as a fine will win you this

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2022-08-14 7:13:09 PM  

Jake Havechek: My elderly rescue cat is a purely indoor cat.  She only time she goes into the hunting stance is when I'm reheating pizza slices.


We have a 13 year old, indoor, who patrols the one spot mice can get into the house. If one dares cross her reach, she gets it.

Good girl.
 
2022-08-14 7:13:16 PM  
Well, fortunately, birbs aren't real, so no harm done.
 
2022-08-14 7:13:45 PM  

SMB2811: The Pope of Manwich Village: The American Bird Conservancy says 2.4 Billion song birds are supposedly killed by cats every year. That's 132K per State, per day.

MMMMBULLLLSHHHHIAT.

Here's the study https://abcbirds.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Loss_et_al._2013-Impacts_Outdoor_Cats.pdf Feel free to point out where it's wrong. I mean, I know your feelings say so, but maybe try for something substantial.

House cats are an ecological disaster.


Here's a study on research fraud https://www.elsevier.com/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/653887/Research-Fraud-factsheet-March-2019.pdf Feel free to point out where it's wrong. I mean, I know your feelings are hurt, but maybe try for something more original.

House cats have the cutest toe beans.
 
2022-08-14 7:15:00 PM  
Yes. Outdoor cats are just like any other invasive species. Eliminate them. When a feral colony can't be eliminated, get them shots and spayed and neutered to stop their spread.

If you let your house cat "roam" you are a bad person from a biodiversity perspective, sorry, it's true.
 
2022-08-14 7:16:54 PM  
50k Euro fine if it kills a lark?

I mean, I get that you want to discourage the behavior, and a 500 Euro fine for letting your cat out is one thing... but whether your cat happens to catch a lark or not is kind of up to the cat.  We always had indoor cats, but every now and then one would manage to slip out.  A fine that ruins your month is one thing in that situation, but a fine that ruins your life?  

Fines should be income based anyway.  They are a seriously regressive form of punishment.  Base it on income, and make it an escalating fine for repeat offenses.
 
2022-08-14 7:17:06 PM  
Cats kill for sport and are further unneeded pressure on already stressed populations.
 
2022-08-14 7:17:32 PM  

bucket_pup: My three (working) barn cats are 4 for 5 so far this week. 2 rats and 3 mice.


How many song birds though - 300? 500?
 
2022-08-14 7:18:32 PM  
Control cats? Ha! Good luck!

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2022-08-14 7:20:23 PM  

SpaceyCat: I compromised on this.  Screened in my porch so they could be outside if they wanted to, but keep them away from the wildlife and the street.  I've had to rescue one of them a few times because he decided to climb the screens to get at a pigeon that was sitting on the downspout and got stuck


I was watching one of our family cats once as it was watching a bug on a screen in the window.  What neither of us knew was the neighbor's outdoor kitty was strolling by and was watching the bug from the other side of the screen window.  When it decided to jump up on the screen to grab the bug our cat just about hit the ceiling.  I've seen startled cats before, but Diggerbear was Olympic level jumping that day.
 
2022-08-14 7:20:58 PM  
My indoor/outdoor cats would like to invite the "Keep them inside!" brigade to go fark themselves.
 
2022-08-14 7:23:21 PM  
No. The only reason this is an issue is that dogs are too stupid to catch a bird now and then, and their owners are, too.
 
2022-08-14 7:25:04 PM  
I'm supposed to care about songbirds. What am I, a  70 year lady?
 
2022-08-14 7:26:44 PM  
Maybe Tarantino could direct a documentary called Kill Bird with a scene where a single cat named Beatrix Catto kills 70+ birds from the Canary 88s around a bird bath.
 
2022-08-14 7:27:12 PM  

mungo: The Pope of Manwich Village: The American Bird Conservancy says 2.4 Billion song birds are supposedly killed by cats every year. That's 132K per State, per day.

MMMMBULLLLSHHHHIAT.

There are over 50 million pet cats in the US, or about 1 million per state. So a cat only has to kill one animal per week (in fact slightly fewer) to make that number right. So....

MMMMMCORRREEECTTTT


how many of those are outside cats?

gotta use the correct denominator yanno
 
2022-08-14 7:30:20 PM  

HoratioGates: I've seen startled cats before, but Diggerbear was Olympic level jumping that day.


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