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(The Advocate)   How long will this take to get before SCOTUS? Is this the case SCOTUS will use to end Marriage Equality?   (advocate.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Supreme Court of the United States, Gender, Discrimination, United States, Employment, Roman Catholic Church, Catholic nonprofit organization, United States Congress  
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3823 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Aug 2022 at 12:20 AM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-08-13 10:45:58 PM  
Any Gay now, by my estimate.
 
2022-08-14 12:24:30 AM  
So they gave him the benefits but then rescinded them when it started to cost actual money? I don't think this is the best case for the fundies.
 
2022-08-14 12:24:45 AM  
Why are gay people working with Catholic and baptist groups suddenly bamboozled when they rat fark you over?

You are antithetical to their very existence. If it's mercenary freelance gig work, I get it, it's a paycheck. But when they eventually don't recognize your human rights these are the people who's blood money you have taken. That's the Faustian bargain you agreed to when you worked for them.
 
2022-08-14 12:26:11 AM  
Killing Roe may really hurt the GOP. Bad for them, their SCOTUS toads are probably unfettered from electoral sensibilities. They're going to go unchecked.
 
2022-08-14 12:28:35 AM  

Night Train to Wakanda: Why are gay people working with Catholic and baptist groups suddenly bamboozled when they rat fark you over?

You are antithetical to their very existence. If it's mercenary freelance gig work, I get it, it's a paycheck. But when they eventually don't recognize your human rights these are the people who's blood money you have taken. That's the Faustian bargain you agreed to when you worked for them.


Are we really surprised?  There are Gay Republicans, and the GOP has made a mint off of getting people to vote against their own interests as long as the person they hate next to them suffers worse.
 
2022-08-14 12:28:47 AM  
This SCOTUS could twist a case about dogcatchers unions to end marriage equality.
 
2022-08-14 12:30:22 AM  

shpritz: So they gave him the benefits but then rescinded them when it started to cost actual money? I don't think this is the best case for the fundies.


You think any sort of logical consistency is required?  They just need a case, no matter how flimsy, to put in front of SCOTUS, and they will get Obergefelloverturned by 6-3.
 
2022-08-14 12:33:02 AM  
Yep. They will take away marriage equality. And with their decision on Roe they will set a precedent reversing Loving v Virginia as well.
 
2022-08-14 12:40:34 AM  

anuran: Yep. They will take away marriage equality. And with their decision on Roe they will set a precedent reversing Loving v Virginia as well.


This is Justice Thomas' long game to get his marriage to Ginny annulled, so he doesn't have to pay alimony.
 
2022-08-14 12:43:31 AM  

foo monkey: anuran: Yep. They will take away marriage equality. And with their decision on Roe they will set a precedent reversing Loving v Virginia as well.

This is Justice Thomas' long game to get his marriage to Ginny annulled, so he doesn't have to pay alimony.


She will have him mysteriously "disappeared" when she's done with him.

And blame Democrats, BLM, Antifa or possibly the Tooth Fairy.
 
2022-08-14 12:44:30 AM  
Not sure. Moving against this might affect domestic partner health benefits which includes a cohabitating blood relative. Then again, I might be too optimistic with regards to right wingers just being assholes to everyone.
 
2022-08-14 12:46:46 AM  
Just another reason that health care and pensions should not be in the hands of corporations.

This country needs to get a grip on that. Person up. Farking end the corporations having ultimate control over the worker bees. It's a sadistic system.

And another reason churches are corporations and need to be taxed as such.
 
2022-08-14 12:52:27 AM  
Your right to free exercise ≠ a right to discriminate on the basis of sex.
 
2022-08-14 12:55:16 AM  

Night Train to Wakanda: Why are gay people working with Catholic and baptist groups suddenly bamboozled when they rat fark you over?

You are antithetical to their very existence. If it's mercenary freelance gig work, I get it, it's a paycheck. But when they eventually don't recognize your human rights these are the people who's blood money you have taken. That's the Faustian bargain you agreed to when you worked for them.


Blood money.  Riiiight.

You want to be a nurse in the Pacific Northwest?  Good luck not working for Providence.

You want to work in international development?  Oxfam only has so many jobs.

Blood money.

Stop blaming the victim.  Benefits that were offered were rescinded.  It's not the fault of the worker.
 
2022-08-14 12:56:02 AM  
You'd think he'd like his husband not to have teeth...🤷🤷
 
2022-08-14 12:58:02 AM  
If a CRS employee has divorced and remarried, or the CRS employee's spouse had been previously married, does CRS provide health benefits to the spouse, even though the Catholic Church has a policy against divorce and remarriage (I know, there are exemptions for annulments, etc.)?

If they do, then do the same for the gay couple.

/ Next case
 
2022-08-14 1:01:56 AM  
All Biden has to do is channel the power of Dark Brandon and gitmo 3 or 4 people.  Then appoint new Justices.  He doesn't even have to say he gitmoed them.  Just dont answer those questions.  Or girmo the journalists who get out of line.

For the good of Our Democracy, he might have to break a few idealistic eggs.  Better that one man compromise his ideals temporarily than to have the whole nation descend into darkness.

Problem solved.
 
2022-08-14 1:04:05 AM  
It would be a very long bow to draw to use this case to anul same sex marriage, a massive overreaction to an insurance coverage question. But with this SCOTUS, yeah probably Subby.
 
2022-08-14 1:06:26 AM  

fatalvenom: You'd think he'd like his husband not to have teeth...🤷🤷


Funnied. Reluctantly.
 
2022-08-14 1:08:09 AM  

AmbassadorBooze: All Biden has to do is channel the power of Dark Brandon and gitmo 3 or 4 people.  Then appoint new Justices.  He doesn't even have to say he gitmoed them.  Just dont answer those questions.  Or girmo the journalists who get out of line.

For the good of Our Democracy, he might have to break a few idealistic eggs.  Better that one man compromise his ideals temporarily than to have the whole nation descend into darkness.

Problem solved.


Do you really want to unleash extrajudicial punishment in response to illegal actions? That's how the US goes from "dysfunctional democracy" to "banana republic."
 
2022-08-14 1:09:27 AM  

untoldforce: AmbassadorBooze: All Biden has to do is channel the power of Dark Brandon and gitmo 3 or 4 people.  Then appoint new Justices.  He doesn't even have to say he gitmoed them.  Just dont answer those questions.  Or girmo the journalists who get out of line.

For the good of Our Democracy, he might have to break a few idealistic eggs.  Better that one man compromise his ideals temporarily than to have the whole nation descend into darkness.

Problem solved.

Do you really want to unleash extrajudicial punishment in response to illegal actions? That's how the US goes from "dysfunctional democracy" to "banana republic."


What is the other option?  Gilead?

I will take Dark Brandon over Trumpistan Gilead.
 
2022-08-14 1:10:13 AM  

Name_Omitted: Night Train to Wakanda: Why are gay people working with Catholic and baptist groups suddenly bamboozled when they rat fark you over?

You are antithetical to their very existence. If it's mercenary freelance gig work, I get it, it's a paycheck. But when they eventually don't recognize your human rights these are the people who's blood money you have taken. That's the Faustian bargain you agreed to when you worked for them.

Blood money.  Riiiight.

You want to be a nurse in the Pacific Northwest?  Good luck not working for Providence.

You want to work in international development?  Oxfam only has so many jobs.

Blood money.

Stop blaming the victim.  Benefits that were offered were rescinded.  It's not the fault of the worker.


Sounds like a "you" problem.
 
2022-08-14 1:12:54 AM  

untoldforce: AmbassadorBooze: All Biden has to do is channel the power of Dark Brandon and gitmo 3 or 4 people.  Then appoint new Justices.  He doesn't even have to say he gitmoed them.  Just dont answer those questions.  Or girmo the journalists who get out of line.

For the good of Our Democracy, he might have to break a few idealistic eggs.  Better that one man compromise his ideals temporarily than to have the whole nation descend into darkness.

Problem solved.

Do you really want to unleash extrajudicial punishment in response to illegal actions? That's how the US goes from "dysfunctional democracy" to "banana republic."


You reached the banana republic stage a while back and are currently in the "throw shiat at the wall to try and save what remains" stage now. Or keep your head in the sand, I'm here for .gifs, not to tell you how to live
 
2022-08-14 1:19:07 AM  

fatalvenom: You'd think he'd like his husband not to have teeth...🤷🤷


God damn it.

/clicks funny
 
2022-08-14 1:19:27 AM  

anuran: Yep. They will take away marriage equality. And with their decision on Roe they will set a precedent reversing Loving v Virginia as well.


And Gitlow. And Brown. And Mapp. And Gideon.

If it is based in the 14th Amendment and isn't a favored policy of the rightists ... it is gone as soon as they can finagle a case in front of the Extremes.
 
2022-08-14 1:20:20 AM  

fatalvenom: You'd think he'd like his husband not to have teeth...🤷🤷


I'd think he'd like his husband to be able to eat and enjoy food that isn't a gentleman's sausage.
 
2022-08-14 1:20:25 AM  

AmbassadorBooze: All Biden has to do is channel the power of Dark Brandon and gitmo 3 or 4 people.  Then appoint new Justices.  He doesn't even have to say he gitmoed them.  Just dont answer those questions.  Or girmo the journalists who get out of line.

For the good of Our Democracy, he might have to break a few idealistic eggs.  Better that one man compromise his ideals temporarily than to have the whole nation descend into darkness.

Problem solved.


Just one would make Roberts the swing vote and make the court considerably less nuts.
 
2022-08-14 1:23:39 AM  
What respectable gay works for missionaries?!
 
2022-08-14 1:25:24 AM  

misanthropicsob: What respectable gay works for missionaries?!


Flexible ones?
 
2022-08-14 1:25:31 AM  

fruit flies like a banana: AmbassadorBooze: All Biden has to do is channel the power of Dark Brandon and gitmo 3 or 4 people.  Then appoint new Justices.  He doesn't even have to say he gitmoed them.  Just dont answer those questions.  Or girmo the journalists who get out of line.

For the good of Our Democracy, he might have to break a few idealistic eggs.  Better that one man compromise his ideals temporarily than to have the whole nation descend into darkness.

Problem solved.

Just one would make Roberts the swing vote and make the court considerably less nuts.


Just as long as Dark Brandon saves Our Democracy.  Maybe we get lucky and gitmos two of them.  So the others have fear.

Fear works.
 
2022-08-14 1:27:35 AM  

harleyquinnical: fatalvenom: You'd think he'd like his husband not to have teeth...🤷🤷

I'd think he'd like his husband to be able to eat and enjoy food that isn't a gentleman's sausage.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-14 1:29:06 AM  

misanthropicsob: What respectable gay works for missionaries?!


You gotta do what you can to get back-pay...
 
2022-08-14 1:34:07 AM  

Night Train to Wakanda: Name_Omitted: Night Train to Wakanda: Why are gay people working with Catholic and baptist groups suddenly bamboozled when they rat fark you over?

You are antithetical to their very existence. If it's mercenary freelance gig work, I get it, it's a paycheck. But when they eventually don't recognize your human rights these are the people who's blood money you have taken. That's the Faustian bargain you agreed to when you worked for them.

Blood money.  Riiiight.

You want to be a nurse in the Pacific Northwest?  Good luck not working for Providence.

You want to work in international development?  Oxfam only has so many jobs.

Blood money.

Stop blaming the victim.  Benefits that were offered were rescinded.  It's not the fault of the worker.

Sounds like a "you" problem.


Nope sounds like a purer-than-thou-no-responsibilties Night Train to Wakanda problem.
 
2022-08-14 1:35:50 AM  

fatalvenom: harleyquinnical: fatalvenom: You'd think he'd like his husband not to have teeth...🤷🤷

I'd think he'd like his husband to be able to eat and enjoy food that isn't a gentleman's sausage.

[Fark user image 257x290] [View Full Size image _x_]


DON'T LOOK AT ME IN THAT TONE OF VOICE!
 
2022-08-14 1:47:32 AM  

mysha: If a CRS employee has divorced and remarried, or the CRS employee's spouse had been previously married, does CRS provide health benefits to the spouse, even though the Catholic Church has a policy against divorce and remarriage (I know, there are exemptions for annulments, etc.)?

If they do, then do the same for the gay couple.

/ Next case


Why should church rules have any bearing on them following the law?

Am I allowed to not follow the law simply by writing my own rules and declaring them sincerely held beliefs?

They live in society, our collective laws trump their club laws.
 
2022-08-14 1:51:23 AM  

misanthropicsob: What respectable gay works for missionaries?!


What is the problem with a gay person assuming a missionary position?
 
2022-08-14 2:15:35 AM  
This is unlikely to have any bearing on the legality of gay marriage.

A case like this is going to result in the Supreme Court essentially declaring "Christian" organizations above the law.

They will easily find another case on gay marriage, and to encourage it there may well be some comments in the decision (or a concurrence) arguing to overturn Obergefell and Windsor. But the focus on this (or a similar case) will be on giving power to "Christian" groups.

/Don't forget DOMA is still on the books, not only can the courts allow states to eliminate gay marriages by overturning Obergefell, they can be eliminated federally as well by overturning Windsor
 
2022-08-14 2:34:06 AM  
Night Train to Wakanda: Why are gay people working with Catholic and baptist groups suddenly bamboozled when they rat fark you over?

You are antithetical to their very existence. If it's mercenary freelance gig work, I get it, it's a paycheck. But when they eventually don't recognize your human rights these are the people who's blood money you have taken. That's the Faustian bargain you agreed to when you worked for them.


Name_Omitted: Blood money.  Riiiight.

You want to be a nurse in the Pacific Northwest?  Good luck not working for Providence.

You want to work in international development?  Oxfam only has so many jobs.

Blood money.

Stop blaming the victim.  Benefits that were offered were rescinded.  It's not the fault of the worker.



Night Train to Wakanda:
Sounds like a "you" problem.


Not-Cool Story Bro - FTA, emphasis mine:

In a separate ruling that year (2020), the (Supreme) court gave some leeway for religious groups to discriminate in employment that involves ministerial duties.

The 2020 ruling cited in the link involved 2 cases where teachers at Catholic grade schools were claiming they were faced discrimination (one was not rehired because of her age, the other was not rehired because of cancer-related health issues). The Church claimed that because the teachers taught religion as part of their daily classes, they could be considered ministers, which were exempted from anti-discrimination laws under a previous Supreme Court ruling; the 2020 Supreme Court ruled 7-2 in favor of the Church (Sotomayor and Ginsburg were the 2 dissenting votes).

One of the 2 cases in the 2020 decision,St. James School v. Biel, was local to me: the teacher, was not rehired after she told the principal that she would be taking time off for cancer treatments. She eventually died from the cancer, but her husband continued the case up to the SC ruling. She taught religion for less than hour, and did not lead the students in prayers.

While the case was working its way through the courts, the principal of the school, Sister Mary Margaret Krueper - had refused to rehire Biel - was charged and convicted of embezzling hundreds of thousands of dollars of school funds that she used to finance gambling trips.

Earlier this year (2022) Kreuper was sentenced to 1 year in prison and order to pay back the $835,000 that she stole.

/ In Biel's case, it definitely was a "you" problem
// ... the "you" being the school principal
 
2022-08-14 2:35:13 AM  

Night Train to Wakanda: Why are gay people working with Catholic and baptist groups suddenly bamboozled when they rat fark you over?

You are antithetical to their very existence. If it's mercenary freelance gig work, I get it, it's a paycheck. But when they eventually don't recognize your human rights these are the people who's blood money you have taken. That's the Faustian bargain you agreed to when you worked for them.


When money is all that matters in society don't be surprised when people put their access to a steady pay cheque over their own civil rights.
 
2022-08-14 2:48:51 AM  
Don't threaten me with the Supreme Court. I don't owe nobody my vote!
 
2022-08-14 2:55:58 AM  

anuran: Night Train to Wakanda: Name_Omitted: Night Train to Wakanda: Why are gay people working with Catholic and baptist groups suddenly bamboozled when they rat fark you over?

You are antithetical to their very existence. If it's mercenary freelance gig work, I get it, it's a paycheck. But when they eventually don't recognize your human rights these are the people who's blood money you have taken. That's the Faustian bargain you agreed to when you worked for them.

Blood money.  Riiiight.

You want to be a nurse in the Pacific Northwest?  Good luck not working for Providence.

You want to work in international development?  Oxfam only has so many jobs.

Blood money.

Stop blaming the victim.  Benefits that were offered were rescinded.  It's not the fault of the worker.

Sounds like a "you" problem.

Nope sounds like a purer-than-thou-no-responsibilties Night Train to Wakanda problem.


Yeah, having principles sucks.

You know what sucks even more? Expecting people who would want me dead or at least suffering to treat me as one of their own and finding out they will stab me in the back as soon as they could.
 
2022-08-14 2:57:19 AM  
This nation is now a place where state governments can freely violate the constitution because of their sincerely held religious beliefs.
 
2022-08-14 2:57:51 AM  

Night Train to Wakanda: anuran: Night Train to Wakanda: Name_Omitted: Night Train to Wakanda: Why are gay people working with Catholic and baptist groups suddenly bamboozled when they rat fark you over?

You are antithetical to their very existence. If it's mercenary freelance gig work, I get it, it's a paycheck. But when they eventually don't recognize your human rights these are the people who's blood money you have taken. That's the Faustian bargain you agreed to when you worked for them.

Blood money.  Riiiight.

You want to be a nurse in the Pacific Northwest?  Good luck not working for Providence.

You want to work in international development?  Oxfam only has so many jobs.

Blood money.

Stop blaming the victim.  Benefits that were offered were rescinded.  It's not the fault of the worker.

Sounds like a "you" problem.

Nope sounds like a purer-than-thou-no-responsibilties Night Train to Wakanda problem.

Yeah, having principles sucks.

You know what sucks even more? Expecting people who would want me dead or at least suffering to treat me as one of their own and finding out they will stab me in the back as soon as they could.


Sucks? Why'nt you call me a poopyhead while you're at it? You descended there pretty quickly, and it's the next stop on your rhetorical choo-choo.
 
2022-08-14 3:01:08 AM  
mysha:

Corruption is not really the point of my statement.

This is about being shocked to find out that you're treated as less than equal who straight up tell you that you are evil in through the lens of their organizational perspective.

Miscarriage of Justice is another topic.
 
2022-08-14 3:04:24 AM  
anuran:

I'm just over here eating crackers.

No one has been forced to work. These are pathways people have taken and they chose to ignore the warning signs or thought they were above them. And when they find out they're not excluded from the out group, have issues with their employment bargain.

So I don't have much sympathy.
 
2022-08-14 6:50:34 AM  

Night Train to Wakanda: anuran:

I'm just over here eating crackers.

No one has been forced to work. These are pathways people have taken and they chose to ignore the warning signs or thought they were above them. And when they find out they're not excluded from the out group, have issues with their employment bargain.

So I don't have much sympathy.


It's wrong whether or not the person "got what they deserved" for working there.  Sure, have a bit less sympathy, but I hope your parsing of this situation still sees the horrible precedent being set.
 
2022-08-14 7:52:13 AM  

LurkLongAndProsper: Don't threaten me with the Supreme Court. I don't owe nobody my vote!


This
 
2022-08-14 8:18:19 AM  
That's problem with the supreme granting people rights.  They can just as easily take them away
 
2022-08-14 8:50:52 AM  

Night Train to Wakanda: anuran:

I'm just over here eating crackers.

No one has been forced to work. These are pathways people have taken and they chose to ignore the warning signs or thought they were above them. And when they find out they're not excluded from the out group, have issues with their employment bargain.

So I don't have much sympathy.


What if, instead of reducing your outrage at the company because the person impacted "should have known better," you were open to the idea that all companies should be held to a similar minimum standard, thereby allowing anyone to work there?

What a goddamned shame that would be!
 
2022-08-14 10:09:02 AM  

GrizzlyPouch: That's problem with the supreme granting people rights.  They can just as easily take them away


The Supreme Court doesn't "grant" rights. People are endowed with rights by their creator.
 
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