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(Variety)   "Inside the Confusing State of DC, From Huge 'Joker 2' Paydays to the Search for Their Kevin Feige"   (variety.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Warner Bros., Time Warner, Film, Batman, Superhero, Marvel Comics, DC Comics, release of DC comics adaptation  
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538 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 12 Aug 2022 at 7:05 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



33 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-08-12 7:10:22 AM  
They should honestly go all in on a grimdark Snyder verse with 100% creative control.
 
2022-08-12 7:27:54 AM  
DC from the start could see that a massive factor in Marvel's success was having a central voice who was passionate about the material.

So how could they just be realizing they need this, after they've likely ostracized anyone who could fit the role?
 
2022-08-12 7:37:41 AM  
First "Joker" flick cost $50 million and made a billion dollars just from theatrical ticket sales. Made even more with Blu ray, streaming sales and rentals, and TV distribution.

They're playing with the house's money on the sequel.
 
2022-08-12 7:40:46 AM  
I think Robert Burnette would make a good DC studio head. Yes I know, flame me, he's not a business manager type but he is a creative person with some decent ideas and a working knowledge of the characters. A talented fan boy with experience in film production and writing.
 
2022-08-12 7:50:03 AM  
Their biggest problem is finding someone that actually cares about DC material enough to be their Kevin Feige. Maybe it's just the area I'm in, but all the die-hard DC fans I know are narcissists that constantly compare themselves to Superman and Wonder Woman. Maybe they should try giving their rights to Sony. Corporate narcissism could be the answer
 
2022-08-12 8:01:11 AM  
Give it to Lego and whoever is running Harley Quinn.
 
2022-08-12 8:01:44 AM  
They're really scrapping Batgirl, after sinking $90mill into it? WTF are they thinking? I wouldn't care if Michael Keaton wasn't in it.
 
2022-08-12 8:11:14 AM  
Paul Dini and Bruce Timm - why is this even an issue?  Their work in the animated material shows they care about it more than the live-action teams do.
 
2022-08-12 8:11:31 AM  
If it were me I'd just do all full-blown cgi films. we're at that level now. it would make things much easier. voice actors are easier and cost less. no location filming, no insurance to carry, no travel scheduling problems, covid wouldn't be as big a problem. Imagine that DC universe online cinematic trailer but the full story and with today's graphics.
 
2022-08-12 8:11:44 AM  

Mugato: They're really scrapping Batgirl, after sinking $90mill into it? WTF are they thinking? I wouldn't care if Michael Keaton wasn't in it.


And continuing with Flash even though Ezra keeps committing crimes while doing reshoots.
 
2022-08-12 8:17:20 AM  

TheJadedJester: Paul Dini and Bruce Timm - why is this even an issue?  Their work in the animated material shows they care about it more than the live-action teams do.


Yeah, they seem to have the best take on it.

But I think part of the problem is that the DC universe is just...corny. It's hard to get around that. And it doesn't translate well to live-action.

Marvel always had a somewhat more realistic universe to work with, and it lends itself to movies more.

/Marvel guy
 
2022-08-12 8:44:28 AM  

Hobodeluxe: I think Robert Burnette would make a good DC studio head. Yes I know, flame me, he's not a business manager type but he is a creative person with some decent ideas and a working knowledge of the characters. A talented fan boy with experience in film production and writing.


They had Geoff Johns try and create cohesiveness, but because he's an annoying fan of specific characters his writing ability depends on who is editing his crap.
 
2022-08-12 8:47:13 AM  
The head of Discovery-WB is a complete asshole who only wants to appeal to the lowest common denominator. If you thought DC movies were bad before, you ain't seen nothing yet.
 
2022-08-12 8:55:59 AM  

weddingsinger: Mugato: They're really scrapping Batgirl, after sinking $90mill into it? WTF are they thinking? I wouldn't care if Michael Keaton wasn't in it.

And continuing with Flash even though Ezra keeps committing crimes while doing reshoots.


Yeah, they'll probably have to sink even more money into reshoots to patch up any references to Batgirl. What a clusterfark.
 
2022-08-12 9:32:25 AM  
New Big Picture - THE F---POINT PARADOX (450th Episode!)
Youtube B31RmuZBRdo
 
2022-08-12 9:36:29 AM  
specials-images.forbesimg.comView Full Size

"Hey DC, I hear you're looking for a showrunner! I'm available!"
 
2022-08-12 9:38:29 AM  
Hobodeluxe: If it were me I'd just do all full-blown cgi films. we're at that level now. it would make things much easier. voice actors are easier and cost less. no location filming, no insurance to carry, no travel scheduling problems, covid wouldn't be as big a problem. Imagine that DC universe online cinematic trailer but the full story and with today's graphics.

For the most part, I'm fairly convinced that Justice League only had about a half hour of actual humans interacting with each other on the same set.

I mean, it's probably the same amount of "on set work" for a marvel movie, but characters like Rocket and Thanos were just so well implemented that even though I know they were 3D constructs ( and filmed as if they were physically there, with closeups and mid shots that treated them as live characters) that they didn't feel like a special effect.
 
2022-08-12 10:43:06 AM  
The DCEU was doomed when Man of Steel was made.  They didn't get Superman at all.  He's not a cynic.  Metropolis isn't a colorless Gotham City.  Metropolis is the shining city on a hill.  Superman doesn't kill people, especially by breaking their necks.  Superman doesn't let Pa Kent die in a tornado. Superman always finds a way.  He's a pure power fantasy, not a grimdark billionaire dressing up a a bat and beating up mentally ill people on a nightly basis.
On the other hand, the first Wonder Woman was perfect.  "Paradise Island" was a paradise, and the gloomy depressed desaturated color of DC films fit very well in the trenches of WWI.  WW 1984 on the other hand, was a bit rapey when you think of it.
 
2022-08-12 11:02:51 AM  

Jaesop: DC from the start could see that a massive factor in Marvel's success was having a central voice who was passionate about the material.

So how could they just be realizing they need this, after they've likely ostracized anyone who could fit the role?


Except until like, 2016 or so Feige was part of a larger "creative committee". He may have been a more important part of that committee, but he wasn't "in charge" until probably around Civil War or so
 
2022-08-12 11:17:17 AM  

Hobodeluxe: If it were me I'd just do all full-blown cgi films. we're at that level now. it would make things much easier. voice actors are easier and cost less. no location filming, no insurance to carry, no travel scheduling problems, covid wouldn't be as big a problem. Imagine that DC universe online cinematic trailer but the full story and with today's graphics.


Careful, that is how we ended up with a Green Lantern film that required a time-traveling Deadpool to fix.
 
2022-08-12 11:19:29 AM  

DonkeyDixon: Their biggest problem is finding someone that actually cares about DC material enough to be their Kevin Feige. Maybe it's just the area I'm in, but all the die-hard DC fans I know are narcissists that constantly compare themselves to Superman and Wonder Woman. Maybe they should try giving their rights to Sony. Corporate narcissism could be the answer


Huh? How does that even work?

I mean I'm a huge DC fan and even have a Superman-logo shirt, but I'm under no illusion that I can even compare to Superman.

I don't know any die-hard DC fans in my area; everyone is a Marvel die-hard that I know. Maybe that's a good thing.
 
2022-08-12 11:24:45 AM  

TheJadedJester: Paul Dini and Bruce Timm - why is this even an issue?  Their work in the animated material shows they care about it more than the live-action teams do.


If WB wanted money and prestige, this is what they would do.

But there's too much animus of executives towards creatives that come from animation. It doesn't help that the comics people that they've bet on in the past have crashed the bus (Geoff Johns in particular).
 
2022-08-12 12:18:09 PM  
The Joker, The Batman, and Suicide Squad are their last 3 films and were all critical and box office successes.  I don't really see any issue.    The Justice League films all made money, Aquaman.. Shazam...

Birds of Prey was a recent miss, is the only one i'm thinking of that probably disappointed them.
 
2022-08-12 12:23:27 PM  

imashark: I don't know any die-hard DC fans in my area; everyone is a Marvel die-hard that I know. Maybe that's a good thing.


Most of the fans I know aren't committed to a single franchise. They love (most of) the MCU, but they also love The Suicide Squad, Deadpool, the latest Batman, the Harley Quinn Show, The Boys, etc. They're into anything that appeals to their interests and is done well, and instead of rooting against anything, they're always hoping all of these projects will turn out well and more will continue to follow.

None of them think they're Superman or Wonder Woman, either. Superman and Wonder Woman wouldn't wear their own merchandising. That would be tacky.
 
2022-08-12 12:24:08 PM  

Mugato: They're really scrapping Batgirl, after sinking $90mill into it? WTF are they thinking? I wouldn't care if Michael Keaton wasn't in it.


Because as _literally everywhere_ has been reporting for days, they get a tax write off if they can it as part of the corporate merger.

The movie was made simply to add to the content available on HBO Max - it wasn't a theatrical movie that was going to make them direct profit.  Either they spend the $90 mil and every subscriber watches it for "free" as part of their subscription or they take the write off, get some of the money back, and the subscriber base stays more or less the same.

Pretty much every streaming service figured out at the exact same time that "all the money for any content if it means more eyeballs" isn't a viable strategy anymore - everyone who wants streaming has got it at this point.  Now it's quality over quantity so people will actually _keep_ those subscriptions.
 
2022-08-12 12:59:18 PM  

enry: Give it to Lego and whoever is running Harley Quinn.


The HQ show is an uninspired mess. I have no idea why anyone thinks that's funny after The Venture Bros mined that material so much better for years.
 
kab
2022-08-12 1:02:47 PM  
Those salaries, combined with the cost of producing complicated musical sequences

And thus my interest in seeing this dropped to somewhere below zero.

/a shame too, the first was fantastic, if not about 5 minutes too long.
 
2022-08-12 1:17:03 PM  

taliesinwi: Because as _literally everywhere_ has been reporting for days, they get a tax write off if they can it as part of the corporate merger.


Yes, I read the tax write off thing. I just don't see how that equates to a positive, especially if they could have made a franchise out of it. Big corporations get out of paying taxes anyway. I don't see how the numbers could possibly add up.
 
2022-08-12 2:03:40 PM  

Plaster Lion: enry: Give it to Lego and whoever is running Harley Quinn.

The HQ show is an uninspired mess. I have no idea why anyone thinks that's funny after The Venture Bros mined that material so much better for years.


HQ does have Ron Funches. He's great in everything.
 
2022-08-12 2:57:45 PM  

Mugato: taliesinwi: Because as _literally everywhere_ has been reporting for days, they get a tax write off if they can it as part of the corporate merger.

Yes, I read the tax write off thing. I just don't see how that equates to a positive, especially if they could have made a franchise out of it. Big corporations get out of paying taxes anyway. I don't see how the numbers could possibly add up.


Because the movie was made under the old "everything will go to streaming" model of HBO Max.  A model the new owners have said they're no longer going to follow.
So they had a movie that the pre-buyout HBO Max spent $90 million on, and the merged company would need to spend more money on to get ready to broadcast.
The merged company is only out the money they directly spend on finishing the film.  Any money the pre-merger company spent on making it can get written off, but the benefits go to the _new_ company_.
So the choices were:

1.  "Old" HBO Max spent $90 million, new company spends $whatever, releases film, subscriber base watches for "free" (assuming people aren't excitedly signing up for HBO Max to watch Batgirl.)

2.  "Old" HBO Max spent $90 million, new company spends $0, new company takes a one-time write off related to the merger, and essentially gets money back in the form of fewer taxes to pay on revenue they've already booked.  Assuming you don't bleed subscribers because you deprived them of Batgirl, there's absolutely no monetary downside.
 
2022-08-12 11:44:09 PM  

Plaster Lion: enry: Give it to Lego and whoever is running Harley Quinn.

The HQ show is an uninspired mess. I have no idea why anyone thinks that's funny after The Venture Bros mined that material so much better for years.


You could just as easily say The Venture Brothers sucked because Harvey Birdman skewered comic book tropes first. Or maybe Harvey Birdman sucked because Space Ghost Coast to Coast was an earlier adopter of superhero mockery. Or Space Ghost sucked because so on and so on. And none of it would really be a solid argument unless you could prove one of them was outright stealing jokes from another.

Venture Brothers had a very different vibe than the Harley Quinn Show does, and while you might prefer Bros over Harley, others like Harley more than the Bros. Some even like both. All opinions are fair, because humor is subjective and everyone's got their own preferences.
 
2022-08-13 7:46:08 AM  

EdgeRunner: Plaster Lion: enry: Give it to Lego and whoever is running Harley Quinn.

The HQ show is an uninspired mess. I have no idea why anyone thinks that's funny after The Venture Bros mined that material so much better for years.

You could just as easily say The Venture Brothers sucked because Harvey Birdman skewered comic book tropes first. Or maybe Harvey Birdman sucked because Space Ghost Coast to Coast was an earlier adopter of superhero mockery. Or Space Ghost sucked because so on and so on. And none of it would really be a solid argument unless you could prove one of them was outright stealing jokes from another.

Venture Brothers had a very different vibe than the Harley Quinn Show does, and while you might prefer Bros over Harley, others like Harley more than the Bros. Some even like both. All opinions are fair, because humor is subjective and everyone's got their own preferences.


Yep. Iike both shows, but too much Monarch annoyed me so I quit watching.
 
2022-08-13 10:43:41 AM  

Tannhauser: Yep. Iike both shows, but too much Monarch annoyed me so I quit watching.


In keeping with its manic lead character, I find Harley Quinn much more upbeat and the jokes more rapid fire and amusing. Like a lot of Adult Swim shows of its time, Venture Brothers often got bogged down in existential darkness and scatalogical and sexual shock humor, and I felt it also belabored and overexplained many of its gags. It was never one of my favorites, and I always preferred the much wackier Harvey Birdman. But again, that's just my personal taste. There's a wealth of incredible talent involved in all three shows - Birdman, Bros, and Quinn - and there isn't any objective measure that proves any one of them is "better" than the others. They all hit differently enough that you might have your own ratings of each, but they're all good.
 
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