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(9News (Australia))   War game shows massive casualties in potential China/Taiwan conflict. So yeah, it's best not to play   (9news.com.au) divider line
    More: Scary, Republic of China, Political status of Taiwan, Taiwan, World War II, Taipei, China Taiwan news, People's Liberation Army, subsequent US response  
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2567 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Aug 2022 at 10:35 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-08-11 9:28:59 AM  
Any war with china is going to be one of necessity that we couldn't avoid.
Thousands, if not millions, on both sides would die. That's the horror of war.
I feel that's a message we need to repeat every time the war drums start.
 
2022-08-11 10:32:39 AM  
scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.netView Full Size
 
2022-08-11 10:38:57 AM  
Sign a nuclear defense agreement with Taiwan stating that we will treat an attack on Taiwan as if it were an attack on the 50 United States, and respond appropriately.  (We have the same agreement with Canada, btw)

Then this war doesn't happen.
 
2022-08-11 10:39:49 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-11 10:39:58 AM  
600 million screaming chinamen

~some wolverine movie
 
2022-08-11 10:42:45 AM  

Somaticasual: Any war with china is going to be one of necessity that we couldn't avoid.
Thousands, if not millions, on both sides would die. That's the horror of war.
I feel that's a message we need to repeat every time the war drums start.


But it seems that the ones that always beat them the loudest are the ones that they or their children wont have to fit in it.
 
2022-08-11 10:43:14 AM  
What do they use to stimulate the war? Risk? Or HoI4?
 
2022-08-11 10:43:35 AM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size


I need to go back and re-examine the Taiwanese invasion scenarios it laid out.  IIRC, at the time the Chinese most optimal realistic outcome was a failed invasion that cost everyone a lot of ships.
 
2022-08-11 10:43:45 AM  

groppet: Somaticasual: Any war with china is going to be one of necessity that we couldn't avoid.
Thousands, if not millions, on both sides would die. That's the horror of war.
I feel that's a message we need to repeat every time the war drums start.

But it seems that the ones that always beat them the loudest are the ones that they or their children wont have to fit in it.


*Fight

FTFM
 
2022-08-11 10:43:53 AM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Sign a nuclear defense agreement with Taiwan stating that we will treat an attack on Taiwan as if it were an attack on the 50 United States, and respond appropriately.  (We have the same agreement with Canada, btw)

Then this war doesn't happen.


Invite them to join NATO.

/Imagine how that would go over.
 
2022-08-11 10:45:52 AM  
I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account:

Trump backed out of that agreement.
 
2022-08-11 10:47:17 AM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Sign a nuclear defense agreement with Taiwan stating that we will treat an attack on Taiwan as if it were an attack on the 50 United States, and respond appropriately.  (We have the same agreement with Canada, btw)

Then this war doesn't happen.


There's exceptions for a few states in there. Florida's a freebie.
 
2022-08-11 10:47:39 AM  

Slaxl: What do they use to stimulate the war? Risk? Or HoI4?


Ticket to Ride.
 
2022-08-11 10:49:30 AM  
Some people are saying China is going to collapse economically next month.
Would going to war save them?
 
2022-08-11 10:50:38 AM  

Slaxl: What do they use to stimulate the war? Risk? Or HoI4?


Risk turns out to be surprisingly accurate.
64.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-11 10:54:04 AM  
The Chinese would lose some troops, Taiwan would lose everyone with a spine.  China would gain control of the area so quickly that no western nation could assist without attacking Chinese forces directly, which nobody wants to do.  China has observed Russia's slow invasion and sees what the world would do in response.
 
2022-08-11 10:55:27 AM  

oldfool: Some people are saying China is going to collapse economically next month.
Would going to war save them?


Some people also say the earth is flat.
 
2022-08-11 10:55:54 AM  
A Taiwan invasion will go nuclear.  A Chinese first strike could decimate the US surface fleet.  Carriers are the battleships of the current era.  Once a large part of the Pacific fleet is hit, SLBM's will be launched.
 
2022-08-11 10:57:16 AM  

Chthonic Echoes: Invite them to join NATO.


We've already got the new AUKUS deal going with that Australian nuclear submarine deal. Time to get something like Pacific Ocean Treaty Organization (POTO) going so that Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, The Philippines, and a few others can jump in the group to join against China. Maybe take that RIMPAC name and use that for the organization?
 
2022-08-11 10:58:10 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Sign a nuclear defense agreement with Taiwan stating that we will treat an attack on Taiwan as if it were an attack on the 50 United States, and respond appropriately.  (We have the same agreement with Canada, btw)

Then this war doesn't happen.

There's exceptions for a few states in there. Florida's a freebie.


i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-11 10:58:39 AM  

oldfool: Some people are saying China is going to collapse economically next month.
Would going to war save them?


In the short term yes. There would be fewer mouths to feed, and priority would be given to the military, or people of age and eligible for military service. The old, the infirm, women would starve, but it's a sacrifice everyone would be willing to make, until of course, it's their turn to starve for the glory of the nation.

great for population control, especially since the ratio of males:females in china is slanted very much towards males, they can afford to lose a few hundred million or so.
 
2022-08-11 11:00:55 AM  

Slaxl: What do they use to stimulate the war? Risk? Or HoI4?


Warahammer 40k
 
2022-08-11 11:01:02 AM  

KangTheMad: oldfool: Some people are saying China is going to collapse economically next month.
Would going to war save them?

Some people also say the earth is flat.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-11 11:01:07 AM  
It would be a massive disaster to undertake that..The time of taking and occupying major cities is gone.
Not even China could muster enough force to not only take a beachead, hold that, and then bring in
even MORE personnel, equipment and supplies to try to take a city with the population of Chicago..
A population that DOES NOT want them there..These are the descendants of the people that fought
against Mao.

China would definitely sustain massive casualties, and Taiwan might not hold back from doing
something awful (Like targeting dams) in retaliation if their population centers and civilians are
getting killed and infrastructure destroyed..
 
2022-08-11 11:02:10 AM  

Explodo: The Chinese would lose some troops, Taiwan would lose everyone with a spine.  China would gain control of the area so quickly that no western nation could assist without attacking Chinese forces directly, which nobody wants to do.  China has observed Russia's slow invasion and sees what the world would do in response.


Taiwan would become China's Afghanistan. People would revolt, people would fight, people would do the bare minimum, and probably sabotage any Chinese sponsored state inactivate they would be forced to participate in.

TSMC would be blown to smithereens and any TSMC engineers would  suddenly "forget" how simple technology works.

Taiwan would simply not buy the bullshiat the CPC is selling.
 
2022-08-11 11:03:49 AM  
Yes, subby, war doesn't make sense to wage - for us. But for leaders sending a bunch of us to our deaths makes sense, it's not the leader of the country who's going to be getting shot at in the trenches.

Most of the time the people who want the wars, and start the wars, have nothing to lose personally... so wars continue.
 
2022-08-11 11:06:16 AM  

MIRV888: A Taiwan invasion will go nuclear.  A Chinese first strike could decimate the US surface fleet.  Carriers are the battleships of the current era.  Once a large part of the Pacific fleet is hit, SLBM's will be launched.


If the US uses nuclear weapons, China will retaliate with nuclear weapons. Knowing this, the US won't use nuclear weapons unless it's an absolute necessity. These war games show it isn't an absolute necessity.
 
2022-08-11 11:08:31 AM  

MIRV888: A Taiwan invasion will go nuclear.


For what it's worth, China has pledged to never be the first strike user of nuclear weapons.
 
2022-08-11 11:13:30 AM  

mrmopar5287: MIRV888: A Taiwan invasion will go nuclear.

For what it's worth, China has pledged to never be the first strike user of nuclear weapons.


I trust China as much as I do Trump. They'd absolutely do a first strike if they thought it gave them an advantage.
 
2022-08-11 11:14:15 AM  

mrmopar5287: MIRV888: A Taiwan invasion will go nuclear.

For what it's worth, China has pledged to never be the first strike user of nuclear weapons.


That's worth about as much as me pledging never to eat this box of cookies.

/mmm, cookies
 
2022-08-11 11:15:47 AM  

mrmopar5287: MIRV888: A Taiwan invasion will go nuclear.

For what it's worth, China has pledged to never be the first strike user of nuclear weapons.


They also made a bunch of pledges about Hong Kong, and see how that worked out.
 
2022-08-11 11:19:17 AM  

toraque: mrmopar5287: MIRV888: A Taiwan invasion will go nuclear.

For what it's worth, China has pledged to never be the first strike user of nuclear weapons.

They also made a bunch of pledges about Hong Kong, and see how that worked out.


This may come as a shock and surprise to you, but the Chinese Gov't of the 90's is in no way shape or form the Chinese Gov't under Xi Ping, who has shown he has no regard for the policies or "pledges" of the former Administrations
 
2022-08-11 11:19:57 AM  
Would anyone in their right mind think it could be different? Should China and the US (with Taiwan) get into open war it's going to be horrible and have long-term consequences nobody likes.

I also doubt it will happen because nobody would win. Xi isn't about to go nuclear, so the war would stay conventional. The problem being it would destroy too much Chinese manufacturing, much of it is near the coast, and weaken them irreparably. Imagine "Made in China" disappearing, effectively.

Taiwan would be seriously screwed as well, as EVERYTHING is near a coast. No more "Made in Taiwan" effectively either... but they'd have more help rebuilding so maybe in a decade or so they'd be somewhat back. Oh and say hello to a world recession.

Nope. I'm guessing nobody wants to play that game.
 
2022-08-11 11:20:13 AM  

Explodo: The Chinese would lose some troops, Taiwan would lose everyone with a spine.  China would gain control of the area so quickly that no western nation could assist without attacking Chinese forces directly, which nobody wants to do.  China has observed Russia's slow invasion and sees what the world would do in response.


Are you paid in yuan, Rubles or bitcoin?
 
2022-08-11 11:21:27 AM  
*cough*
 
2022-08-11 11:21:52 AM  
China's Economic Crisis, GDP is Crashing, Protests Everywhere. China's financial crisis is Here...
Youtube JsIOYAI2D1k
 
2022-08-11 11:24:09 AM  
The ones who launch wars are rarely rational, or at least rooted in reality. So I just reject any arguments based on those grounds.
 
2022-08-11 11:25:29 AM  

karl2025: MIRV888: A Taiwan invasion will go nuclear.  A Chinese first strike could decimate the US surface fleet.  Carriers are the battleships of the current era.  Once a large part of the Pacific fleet is hit, SLBM's will be launched.

If the US uses nuclear weapons, China will retaliate with nuclear weapons. Knowing this, the US won't use nuclear weapons unless it's an absolute necessity. These war games show it isn't an absolute necessity.


If the US loses a carrier / carriers, all bets are off.
 
2022-08-11 11:26:49 AM  

oldfool: Some people are saying China is going to collapse economically next month.
Would going to war save them?


I think it's not so much that going to war would save them, but that its disadvantages (or at least perceived disadvantages) over not going to war decrease dramatically.

// Also, it depends on if by "them" if you mean "China" or "Xi Jinping's career".
 
2022-08-11 11:27:57 AM  
I don't see what China has to gain from a war that would surely destroy Taiwan's main economic drivers, regardless of who wins it.
 
2022-08-11 11:28:44 AM  

MIRV888: karl2025: MIRV888: A Taiwan invasion will go nuclear.  A Chinese first strike could decimate the US surface fleet.  Carriers are the battleships of the current era.  Once a large part of the Pacific fleet is hit, SLBM's will be launched.

If the US uses nuclear weapons, China will retaliate with nuclear weapons. Knowing this, the US won't use nuclear weapons unless it's an absolute necessity. These war games show it isn't an absolute necessity.

If the US loses a carrier / carriers, all bets are off.


If the Navy loses a carrier no country is safe as they have just made a god bleed. Carriers are the largest means of force projection around the globe.
 
2022-08-11 11:34:29 AM  
Something that I heard recently during this whole kerfluffle is that apparently the simulation numbers come out saying that China would kick our ass in general and I couldn't help but think "Wow we gave you so much money that the heartland is a rotten husk and you STILL can't do shiat"

What good are these assholes? We don't even get anything in exchange for a broken healthcare system.
 
2022-08-11 11:36:51 AM  

ObscureNameHere: Explodo: The Chinese would lose some troops, Taiwan would lose everyone with a spine.  China would gain control of the area so quickly that no western nation could assist without attacking Chinese forces directly, which nobody wants to do.  China has observed Russia's slow invasion and sees what the world would do in response.

Are you paid in yuan, Rubles or bitcoin?


Social credits is my guess
 
2022-08-11 11:41:45 AM  

Alebak: Something that I heard recently during this whole kerfluffle is that apparently the simulation numbers come out saying that China would kick our ass in general and I couldn't help but think "Wow we gave you so much money that the heartland is a rotten husk and you STILL can't do shiat"

What good are these assholes? We don't even get anything in exchange for a broken healthcare system.


How do you defeat hundreds of tiny explosive drones when all your weapons are designed to take out big ICBMs and intercept missiles and rockets.
 
2022-08-11 11:50:57 AM  

Night Train to Wakanda: Alebak: Something that I heard recently during this whole kerfluffle is that apparently the simulation numbers come out saying that China would kick our ass in general and I couldn't help but think "Wow we gave you so much money that the heartland is a rotten husk and you STILL can't do shiat"

What good are these assholes? We don't even get anything in exchange for a broken healthcare system.

How do you defeat hundreds of tiny explosive drones when all your weapons are designed to take out big ICBMs and intercept missiles and rockets.


I freely admit that I don't know what the right answer would be, but I'm also just some dickhead and haven't been siphoning away public funds like a tick for decades.

The assholes with unlimited money, chests full of medals, and all sorts of experience in military shiat with all the time they've had probably should've thought of something by now.

"Sorry little Timmy, yeah you're stuck using school supplies that are decades old or bought by your teacher with their own money and climate change is looking pretty bad, BUT the military that all the money went to is incapable of adapting to new threats!"
 
2022-08-11 11:52:22 AM  

MIRV888: A Taiwan invasion will go nuclear.  A Chinese first strike could decimate the US surface fleet.  Carriers are the battleships of the current era.  Once a large part of the Pacific fleet is hit, SLBM's will be launched.


What evidence do you have for this assertion?
 
2022-08-11 11:53:29 AM  

oldfool: [Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/JsIOYAI2D1k]


athie Wood has apparently gotten into the game as well of declaring a China collapse. I've seen variations of that video for months now (about a year) from various people, usually with something like weeks until total collapse or somesuch bullshiat.

China is still here... and Trump still hasn't magically been made president again .
 
2022-08-11 11:54:29 AM  

MIRV888: karl2025: MIRV888: A Taiwan invasion will go nuclear.  A Chinese first strike could decimate the US surface fleet.  Carriers are the battleships of the current era.  Once a large part of the Pacific fleet is hit, SLBM's will be launched.

If the US uses nuclear weapons, China will retaliate with nuclear weapons. Knowing this, the US won't use nuclear weapons unless it's an absolute necessity. These war games show it isn't an absolute necessity.

If the US loses a carrier / carriers, all bets are off.


Dunno if there would be a nuke response, but every sub, surface, and air launched cruise missile uncle sam has would be hitting every chinese military and industrial area within 200 miles of the coast if not deeper inland.
 
2022-08-11 12:12:07 PM  

Alebak: Night Train to Wakanda: Alebak: Something that I heard recently during this whole kerfluffle is that apparently the simulation numbers come out saying that China would kick our ass in general and I couldn't help but think "Wow we gave you so much money that the heartland is a rotten husk and you STILL can't do shiat"

What good are these assholes? We don't even get anything in exchange for a broken healthcare system.

How do you defeat hundreds of tiny explosive drones when all your weapons are designed to take out big ICBMs and intercept missiles and rockets.

I freely admit that I don't know what the right answer would be, but I'm also just some dickhead and haven't been siphoning away public funds like a tick for decades.

The assholes with unlimited money, chests full of medals, and all sorts of experience in military shiat with all the time they've had probably should've thought of something by now.

"Sorry little Timmy, yeah you're stuck using school supplies that are decades old or bought by your teacher with their own money and climate change is looking pretty bad, BUT the military that all the money went to is incapable of adapting to new threats!"


Part of the issue is that it isn't a static problem, but more of an ongoing competition. China also has a bunch of people with medals and generous budgets constantly looking for solutions to whatever solutions your guys have thought of.
 
2022-08-11 12:12:18 PM  

MIRV888: karl2025: MIRV888: A Taiwan invasion will go nuclear.  A Chinese first strike could decimate the US surface fleet.  Carriers are the battleships of the current era.  Once a large part of the Pacific fleet is hit, SLBM's will be launched.

If the US uses nuclear weapons, China will retaliate with nuclear weapons. Knowing this, the US won't use nuclear weapons unless it's an absolute necessity. These war games show it isn't an absolute necessity.

If the US loses a carrier / carriers, all bets are off.


That's ludicrous. We lose a carrier so we decide to sacrifice several of our cities? For what?
 
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