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(Ars Technica)   Google, which has launched 13 messaging apps in 11 years, claims it's "time for Apple to fix texting." Fark: Google's head of messaging quit last month   (arstechnica.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Instant messaging, Google, Google's latest strategy, IPhone, Text messaging, different messaging apps, messaging war, part of the RCS sales pitch  
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399 clicks; posted to STEM » on 10 Aug 2022 at 1:05 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



35 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-08-10 11:38:47 AM  
At this point, Google should just buy Telegram or something and make that Android's official texting app.
 
2022-08-10 1:10:09 PM  
I have an Android phone and can text with Apple users just find, can someone explain "the problem" to me?
 
2022-08-10 1:11:08 PM  
Awww. That's a shame. I love it when someone with an iphone sends me a video and it's like 6 pixels X 4 pixels resolution.
 
2022-08-10 1:14:03 PM  

espiaboricua: I have an Android phone and can text with Apple users just find, can someone explain "the problem" to me?


Apple made a much better rich messaging standard in iMessage, Google hasn't been able to match its security, or ease of use, so it wants to try and make Apple open up its standard so they can screw it up with things it wasn't intended for.
 
2022-08-10 1:25:15 PM  

espiaboricua: I have an Android phone and can text with Apple users just find, can someone explain "the problem" to me?


Apple could have, at any point in the last decade released iMessage for Android and PC, but has chosen not to. Apple could have made a publicly available API, but choose but to. They could have made a standard or spec available, they choose not to.

The problem is shallow idiots think it matters what messaging platform you use. They make fun of people who have a different color of bubble when chatting with them.

Google wants Apple to have them be the same color, so Android users aren't looked down on.

And because people are idiots and care about chat bubble colors, here we are.
 
2022-08-10 1:27:09 PM  

saintstryfe: espiaboricua: I have an Android phone and can text with Apple users just find, can someone explain "the problem" to me?

Apple made a much better rich messaging standard in iMessage, Google hasn't been able to match its security, or ease of use, so it wants to try and make Apple open up its standard so they can screw it up with things it wasn't intended for.


Apple made an app, not a standard, not a platform, not an API. Propietary apps are the opposite of standard.

Also don't care about Google, I use Signal.
 
2022-08-10 1:33:29 PM  
Yeah, Teh Googs have no room to criticize anyone about messaging.  Really annoyed I can't use pidgin anymore.  Better client than theirs in several ways.
 
2022-08-10 1:33:39 PM  
Or hell, make a deal with Facebook or Meta or whatever the hell they go by now to have WhatsApp be installed by default. It's not like a lot of the non-US world don't already use it anyway.

/fun fact: carriers in Mexico (and likely other countries too) actually exempt WhatsApp from data caps because it's used so much by people.
 
2022-08-10 1:35:24 PM  

saintstryfe: espiaboricua: I have an Android phone and can text with Apple users just find, can someone explain "the problem" to me?

Apple made a much better rich messaging standard in iMessage, Google hasn't been able to match its security, or ease of use, so it wants to try and make Apple open up its standard so they can screw it up with things it wasn't intended for.


iMessage isn't that secure. Lookup iMessage and zero click.  I personally know a friend that got one one these.
 
2022-08-10 1:36:48 PM  
 
2022-08-10 1:38:39 PM  

themindiswatching: Or hell, make a deal with Facebook or Meta or whatever the hell they go by now to have WhatsApp be installed by default. It's not like a lot of the non-US world don't already use it anyway.

/fun fact: carriers in Mexico (and likely other countries too) actually exempt WhatsApp from data caps because it's used so much by people.


Oh you shut the hell up. I'm not installing a Meta app on my phone, now, or ever.

The major reason I root is to uninstall apps like that being put on phones.

There's nothing wrong with a modernized SMS standard that everyone could use regardless of OS, where multiple developers could make apps that worked with it.

Neither Google, Apple, Meta or any other platform should have a propietary hold over your ability to communicate with other people.
 
2022-08-10 1:39:57 PM  
 
2022-08-10 1:40:06 PM  

Quantumbunny: espiaboricua: I have an Android phone and can text with Apple users just find, can someone explain "the problem" to me?

Apple could have, at any point in the last decade released iMessage for Android and PC, but has chosen not to. Apple could have made a publicly available API, but choose but to. They could have made a standard or spec available, they choose not to.

The problem is shallow idiots think it matters what messaging platform you use. They make fun of people who have a different color of bubble when chatting with them.

Google wants Apple to have them be the same color, so Android users aren't looked down on.

And because people are idiots and care about chat bubble colors, here we are.


I wouldn't say I look down upon the greenies but I do use it as part of my overall assessment of the person. Sometimes people can't afford an iPhone because they're too lazy to get a real job. Sometimes people choose android because they're not that intelligent. And sometimes they're just terrible humans and most likely trump supporters. As you can see, I reserve judgment until I know more about the person behind the green bubble.
 
2022-08-10 1:40:33 PM  
Wait, RCS is from 2008?  No wonder it sucks.  This makes it even more inexplicable that Google's trying to push it as some great thing in 2022, though.
 
2022-08-10 1:43:30 PM  

saintstryfe: espiaboricua: I have an Android phone and can text with Apple users just find, can someone explain "the problem" to me?

Apple made a much better rich messaging standard in iMessage, Google hasn't been able to match its security, or ease of use, so it wants to try and make Apple open up its standard so they can screw it up with things it wasn't intended for.


They made a proprietary app, didn't allow any of the features to be shared with other apps, and didn't port it to other platforms.

This is why when I receive some texts from iPhone users their pictograms don't populate and when they 'like' a message from me I get another text that says "so and so LIKED (repeat my message)" instead of just showing a LIKE icon in the message thread.

This is what happens when there are no common standards. All of Google's standards have been freely available but Apple's haven't been - so Apple is the problem.
 
2022-08-10 1:57:42 PM  

madgonad: saintstryfe: espiaboricua: I have an Android phone and can text with Apple users just find, can someone explain "the problem" to me?

Apple made a much better rich messaging standard in iMessage, Google hasn't been able to match its security, or ease of use, so it wants to try and make Apple open up its standard so they can screw it up with things it wasn't intended for.

They made a proprietary app, didn't allow any of the features to be shared with other apps, and didn't port it to other platforms.

This is why when I receive some texts from iPhone users their pictograms don't populate and when they 'like' a message from me I get another text that says "so and so LIKED (repeat my message)" instead of just showing a LIKE icon in the message thread.

This is what happens when there are no common standards. All of Google's standards have been freely available but Apple's haven't been - so Apple is the problem.


I don't know why Google expects any different. Apple's entire deal is inventing their own way to do things and never sharing with others.
 
2022-08-10 2:07:12 PM  

trialpha: Apple's entire deal is inventing their own way to do things and never sharing with others.


LOL.  Google's contracts for Android literally forbade any device maker from making even a single device for anyone that ran a fork of Android.

Amazon had to find a PC vendor who was willing to start making phones when they created their Fire phones running an Android fork, because nobody making phones could take their business without losing the right to make Android phones at all, no matter who for.
 
2022-08-10 2:15:51 PM  
 
2022-08-10 2:16:50 PM  
I can't believe it is 2022 and unified messaging is not solved, is fragmented, and has DOA products littered about these rather large and generally together companies.

It's literally the simplest things these smartphones do.  It should be a commodity.

I've been instant messaging in some form since 1996 (or before.)

I know some things are more complex on the back-end, but it's really not much different than the architecture and interface from 26 (!!!) years ago.

It's really silly.

I understand vendor lock-in with certain things, that's been the case since I had to hack around Yahoo Messenger.

But really.
 
2022-08-10 2:22:18 PM  

Quantumbunny: saintstryfe: espiaboricua: I have an Android phone and can text with Apple users just find, can someone explain "the problem" to me?

Apple made a much better rich messaging standard in iMessage, Google hasn't been able to match its security, or ease of use, so it wants to try and make Apple open up its standard so they can screw it up with things it wasn't intended for.

Apple made an app, not a standard, not a platform, not an API. Propietary apps are the opposite of standard.

Also don't care about Google, I use Signal.


The key is the messaging part should be a commodity and a standard.  Just like SMS.  Now you can put user interface trinkets on your app to distinguish.  But really at this point, if I want to "message" someone simple text (including emojis, ugh, but ok) and images... it should just work.

This goes for Facebook Messenger, Google's 20 messengers, Apple's iMessage, Signal, Telegram, whatever the hell else is out there.

Just like SMS itself became a standard.  You didn't have to worry if someone was on a Samsung or US Cellular or Nextel phone.
 
2022-08-10 2:31:50 PM  

downstairs: Quantumbunny: saintstryfe: espiaboricua: I have an Android phone and can text with Apple users just find, can someone explain "the problem" to me?

Apple made a much better rich messaging standard in iMessage, Google hasn't been able to match its security, or ease of use, so it wants to try and make Apple open up its standard so they can screw it up with things it wasn't intended for.

Apple made an app, not a standard, not a platform, not an API. Propietary apps are the opposite of standard.

Also don't care about Google, I use Signal.

The key is the messaging part should be a commodity and a standard.  Just like SMS.  Now you can put user interface trinkets on your app to distinguish.  But really at this point, if I want to "message" someone simple text (including emojis, ugh, but ok) and images... it should just work.

This goes for Facebook Messenger, Google's 20 messengers, Apple's iMessage, Signal, Telegram, whatever the hell else is out there.

Just like SMS itself became a standard.  You didn't have to worry if someone was on a Samsung or US Cellular or Nextel phone.


This makes sense.

But the messaging part itself that's a commodity and a standard needs to come not from GSMA, but from IETF or ITU-T or something similar.
 
2022-08-10 2:35:53 PM  

BullBearMS: trialpha: Apple's entire deal is inventing their own way to do things and never sharing with others.

LOL.  Google's contracts for Android literally forbade any device maker from making even a single device for anyone that ran a fork of Android.

Amazon had to find a PC vendor who was willing to start making phones when they created their Fire phones running an Android fork, because nobody making phones could take their business without losing the right to make Android phones at all, no matter who for.


Yeah, and running a fork is what makes Fire tablets suck ass. They had to work really hard to make the worst browser on Earth.
 
2022-08-10 2:42:42 PM  

madgonad: BullBearMS: trialpha: Apple's entire deal is inventing their own way to do things and never sharing with others.

LOL.  Google's contracts for Android literally forbade any device maker from making even a single device for anyone that ran a fork of Android.

Amazon had to find a PC vendor who was willing to start making phones when they created their Fire phones running an Android fork, because nobody making phones could take their business without losing the right to make Android phones at all, no matter who for.

Yeah, and running a fork is what makes Fire tablets suck ass. They had to work really hard to make the worst browser on Earth.


Yes, it's shocking that a $50 tablet isn't performant.
 
2022-08-10 2:44:10 PM  

Quantumbunny: Apple could have, at any point in the last decade released iMessage for Android and PC, but has chosen not to. Apple could have made a publicly available API, but choose but to. They could have made a standard or spec available, they choose not to.


why should they? they made a better mousetrap, so let the world beat a path to their door. Why should they let Google get anything when they can't do it better?

madgonad: This is what happens when there are no common standards. All of Google's standards have been freely available but Apple's haven't been - so Apple is the problem.


if Thiers were better, people would use them. They aren't, so they haven't.

downstairs: Just like SMS itself became a standard.  You didn't have to worry if someone was on a Samsung or US Cellular or Nextel phone.


Well that's what it is - SMS is the standard, it works for everyone. It's barebones. What we're fighting about here is the rich verison that has benefits - both for the host and the user. I can talk to any Android user, but we don't get some bells and whistles - and no one makes extra money on it.
 
2022-08-10 2:57:13 PM  

saintstryfe: Quantumbunny: Apple could have, at any point in the last decade released iMessage for Android and PC, but has chosen not to. Apple could have made a publicly available API, but choose but to. They could have made a standard or spec available, they choose not to.

why should they? they made a better mousetrap, so let the world beat a path to their door. Why should they let Google get anything when they can't do it better?

madgonad: This is what happens when there are no common standards. All of Google's standards have been freely available but Apple's haven't been - so Apple is the problem.

if Thiers were better, people would use them. They aren't, so they haven't.

downstairs: Just like SMS itself became a standard.  You didn't have to worry if someone was on a Samsung or US Cellular or Nextel phone.

Well that's what it is - SMS is the standard, it works for everyone. It's barebones. What we're fighting about here is the rich verison that has benefits - both for the host and the user. I can talk to any Android user, but we don't get some bells and whistles - and no one makes extra money on it.


SMS is a terrible standard in 2022.  It was great a decade or more ago.

Now we need group management (group messaging via SMS is crap), encryption (should be easy, the web has an encryption standard?), handling "likes" and "laughed at" (not sure on the term here, but you know what I mean), proper image quality (which is OK via MMS).

Anyway... SMS was a great standard, now we need other commodity things.  Without vendor lock-in.

And you need everyone on board... Facebook, Google, Apple, telcos

It's not that crazy... all of these companies have been on board to enough degree to get us standards for USB, SMS, and all the other things that are... well... standard.
 
2022-08-10 3:01:11 PM  

saintstryfe: why should they? they made a better mousetrap, so let the world beat a path to their door. Why should they let Google get anything when they can't do it better?


Mousetraps don't need to communicate with each other, they can be non-standard.  We don't need a standard mousetrap.  Go build a new contraption and take it onto Shark Tank!  Doesn't hurt anyone.

Any and all messaging should be a commodity in terms of interoperability.
 
2022-08-10 3:23:02 PM  
What's wrong with just using email? It's an open standard, anyone can set up a server, it supports file transfer, it's not hard to add encryption of end user's choice, and it's got a 40 year of history to prove its usefulness and usability.
 
2022-08-10 3:30:21 PM  

downstairs: Anyway... SMS was a great standard, now we need other commodity things.  Without vendor lock-in.

And you need everyone on board... Facebook, Google, Apple, telcos


Actually can we please not have the telcos?  It's all just IP data now anyway.  The last thing we need is another "message" unit they can decide to charge for if your phone is "roaming" or out-of-country or just because fark you.
 
2022-08-10 3:57:20 PM  
I'll make it simple. My sister has an iPhone and her messages come through thussly:

"I hope that  we can get together soon to go to the national park and have a relaxing picnic and maybe a float down the  river. It would be nice to see you soon "

=

"See you soon"
"I hope we can"
"Relaxing"
"Float"
"River"
"Down"
"I hope that nice"

Same from her stupid jobs phone. Apple is complete shat.
 
2022-08-10 4:00:40 PM  

BullBearMS: madgonad: BullBearMS: trialpha: Apple's entire deal is inventing their own way to do things and never sharing with others.

LOL.  Google's contracts for Android literally forbade any device maker from making even a single device for anyone that ran a fork of Android.

Amazon had to find a PC vendor who was willing to start making phones when they created their Fire phones running an Android fork, because nobody making phones could take their business without losing the right to make Android phones at all, no matter who for.

Yeah, and running a fork is what makes Fire tablets suck ass. They had to work really hard to make the worst browser on Earth.

Yes, it's shocking that a $50 tablet isn't performant.


The 7 inch $50 tablet has 1gb RAM. NEVER buy a 1gb tablet.

The 8 & 10 inch models have 2gb or more they work fine. And they are not limited to Amazon's browser.

How to Install the Google Play Store on an Amazon Fire Tablet
 
2022-08-10 4:33:01 PM  

madgonad: saintstryfe: espiaboricua: I have an Android phone and can text with Apple users just find, can someone explain "the problem" to me?

Apple made a much better rich messaging standard in iMessage, Google hasn't been able to match its security, or ease of use, so it wants to try and make Apple open up its standard so they can screw it up with things it wasn't intended for.

They made a proprietary app, didn't allow any of the features to be shared with other apps, and didn't port it to other platforms.

This is why when I receive some texts from iPhone users their pictograms don't populate and when they 'like' a message from me I get another text that says "so and so LIKED (repeat my message)" instead of just showing a LIKE icon in the message thread.

This is what happens when there are no common standards. All of Google's standards have been freely available but Apple's haven't been - so Apple is the problem.


Tell me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article. The version of RCS Google wants Apple to adopt is their own fork of the standard, not the actual RCS standard. There would be no fundamental difference between that and iMessage. What they're advocating for and what they're actually doing are not the same thing. File under: "OK, be evil."

As an aside, it's also pretty farkin' ballsy of Google to come out complaining about a lack of messaging standards at all. What's their latest messaging app for this week?
 
2022-08-10 5:09:21 PM  
I currently use messenger because most of my contacts are on it. If anyone knows a way to migrate to anything else  please let me know. I suck at this stuff
 
2022-08-10 5:18:25 PM  

frankb00th: I currently use messenger because most of my contacts are on it. If anyone knows a way to migrate to anything else  please let me know. I suck at this stuff


Like Facebook messenger? I dunno, does that do SMS or only instant message with Facebook friends?

I do wish you well getting it off it, but I have no experience with that.
 
2022-08-10 5:34:27 PM  

Quantumbunny: frankb00th: I currently use messenger because most of my contacts are on it. If anyone knows a way to migrate to anything else  please let me know. I suck at this stuff

Like Facebook messenger? I dunno, does that do SMS or only instant message with Facebook friends?

I do wish you well getting it off it, but I have no experience with that.


Its essentially a messaging app, yes. I havent looked too hard into it but I would really like to totally disassociate myself from FB.
 
2022-08-10 5:48:04 PM  

mehhhhhh: I'll make it simple. My sister has an iPhone and her messages come through thussly:

"I hope that  we can get together soon to go to the national park and have a relaxing picnic and maybe a float down the  river. It would be nice to see you soon "

=

"See you soon"
"I hope we can"
"Relaxing"
"Float"
"River"
"Down"
"I hope that nice"

Same from her stupid jobs phone. Apple is complete shat.


Sounds like your phone is shiat.
 
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