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(Fox Weather)   Old crisis: too much CO2 causing climate change. New crisis: not enough CO2 halting beer production. EVERYBODY PANIC   (foxweather.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Brewing, Carbon dioxide, Beer, Natural gas, myriad of supply chain challenges, next glass of beer, American breweries, gas production  
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1325 clicks; posted to Main » and Food » on 08 Aug 2022 at 9:50 AM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-08-08 9:51:41 AM  
If only there was some way to make CO2 from some kind of natural process inherent to beer making
 
2022-08-08 9:55:34 AM  
Hold on, does this mean we can use beer production as a method for carbon capture? That's a win-win!
 
2022-08-08 9:57:15 AM  
I bottle condition *blows raspberries*
 
2022-08-08 9:57:27 AM  
If you have yeast, you have a CO2 source.  I find most craft beers too fizzy in the bottle anyway, so, just go natural and stop adding CO2.
 
2022-08-08 9:58:06 AM  

Arkanaut: Hold on, does this mean we can use beer production as a method for carbon capture? That's a win-win!


I believe Alvarado Street in Monterey cans with recycled/recaptured C02.
 
2022-08-08 10:03:35 AM  

BuehrlesToTheWall: If only there was some way to make CO2 from some kind of natural process inherent to beer making


Not every fermenter can handle the pressure required for beer to self-carbonate. Packaging, distribution and serving system systems have their own requirements for C02 gas as well.
 
2022-08-08 10:09:16 AM  

fragMasterFlash: BuehrlesToTheWall: If only there was some way to make CO2 from some kind of natural process inherent to beer making

Not every fermenter can handle the pressure required for beer to self-carbonate. Packaging, distribution and serving system systems have their own requirements for C02 gas as well.


Well then update, help the environment! Maybe the New Jersey breweries that just lost their license to serve food can upgrade their equipment and tout how environmentally helpful they are to bring in customers before getting them drunk!
 
2022-08-08 10:13:33 AM  
Just throw more hops in each beer, that is usually how they try to solve all beer problems.
 
2022-08-08 10:13:39 AM  
Hand Pulled cask ales (i.e. proper beer) will never suffer from this problem.
 
2022-08-08 10:14:56 AM  
None of the beers I drink require CO2 in production/bottling. Maybe it is just the piss that come out of Inbev and Molson Coors plants?
 
2022-08-08 10:15:01 AM  
What about soda, or coke, or pop, or fizzy water, or whatever your region calls it?
 
2022-08-08 10:16:26 AM  

BuehrlesToTheWall: If only there was some way to make CO2 from some kind of natural process inherent to beer making


People get all squicky seeing the yeast on the bottom of beverages. I guess I don't blame them, but yeast is about the eastiest thing to strain out. Just buy a strainer.

/made "home made" soda back in the day
//knowing what it is, it's basically "protien"
 
2022-08-08 10:17:13 AM  

stuhayes2010: If you have yeast, you have a CO2 source.  I find most craft beers too fizzy in the bottle anyway, so, just go natural and stop adding CO2.


Too fizzy in the bottle
Come and it out ..

Christina Aguilera - Genie In A Bottle (Official Video)
Youtube kIDWgqDBNXA
 
2022-08-08 10:20:51 AM  

Arkanaut: Hold on, does this mean we can use beer production as a method for carbon capture? That's a win-win!


A decade back I went to a research talk of a material scientist who was working with Coca-Cola to apply his research on a CO2 capturing substrate to build a demonstration-scale rooftop collector for one of their bottling plants.  Not sure if this is related to his work scaled-up specifically, but it looks like it might be where things are going:


Coca-Cola's and Microsoft's Latest Gamble: A Giant CO2 Vacuum Cleaner | WSJ
Youtube qtXv0B-4UPo


The carbon emission reduction potential is probably less related to its application in the product than it is to cutting short the supply chain of getting it in there and, of course, pumping the remainder of the collected CO2 underground.
 
2022-08-08 10:21:51 AM  

BuehrlesToTheWall: If only there was some way to make CO2 from some kind of natural process inherent to beer making


Typically most commercial breweries don't capture the CO2 from fermentation due to safety and logistic concerns (tanks and transfer lines can explode, CO2 in large quantities is highly toxic and people can pass out in seconds, transferring pressurized products is challenging, most CO2 would be lost during filtration anyway). Beer is usually carbonated in the bright tank following filtration.
 
2022-08-08 10:23:02 AM  
Isn't this what happened in Young Frankenstein?
 
2022-08-08 10:25:41 AM  

Muttleywantsamedal: Hand Pulled cask ales (i.e. proper beer) will never suffer from this problem.


I have been to lots of bars and brewpubs in my life and only one has a hand-pulled cask setup. It was damn tasty, but you don't see it most places.

https://www.dragonmead.com/
Warren Michigan. Great beers.
 
2022-08-08 10:37:17 AM  

stuhayes2010: If you have yeast, you have a CO2 source.  I find most craft beers too fizzy in the bottle anyway, so, just go natural and stop adding CO2.



That's not as easy as you think. The ~10 days or so it takes to carbonate beer the old fashioned way means they need some way to store it while it does that and if they're already brewing at full capacity, they don't have the space. Either prices go way up or profits go way down.
 
2022-08-08 10:59:48 AM  
Craft beer making who feel they need to add CO2 to their product can just suck it
out of the air.
 
2022-08-08 11:06:14 AM  

AppleOptionEsc: BuehrlesToTheWall: If only there was some way to make CO2 from some kind of natural process inherent to beer making

People get all squicky seeing the yeast on the bottom of beverages. I guess I don't blame them, but yeast is about the eastiest thing to strain out. Just buy a strainer.

/made "home made" soda back in the day
//knowing what it is, it's basically "protien"


A Belgian taught me how to fix that; swirl the last 1/4 of the bottle before pouring. They don't allow you to even photograph a beer without a 1:1 head.
 
2022-08-08 11:08:38 AM  

BuehrlesToTheWall: If only there was some way to make CO2 from some kind of natural process inherent to beer making


/dadjoke.bmp
 
2022-08-08 11:16:45 AM  

virgo47: AppleOptionEsc: BuehrlesToTheWall: If only there was some way to make CO2 from some kind of natural process inherent to beer making

People get all squicky seeing the yeast on the bottom of beverages. I guess I don't blame them, but yeast is about the eastiest thing to strain out. Just buy a strainer.

/made "home made" soda back in the day
//knowing what it is, it's basically "protien"

A Belgian taught me how to fix that; swirl the last 1/4 of the bottle before pouring. They don't allow you to even photograph a beer without a 1:1 head.


If I ordered a pint of beer and half my beer was head, I would request a new beer.
 
2022-08-08 11:21:07 AM  
But is the nitrogen ok?
 
2022-08-08 11:21:08 AM  
Time to replenish the stockpile...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-08 11:27:41 AM  

madgonad: None of the beers I drink require CO2 in production/bottling. Maybe it is just the piss that come out of Inbev and Molson Coors plants?


Well you are so much better than all of us.  Our simple palates cannot handle such complex flavors and the cost is to high for us poor people to pay.  You are far superior in every way imaginable.

Or that's what I read from your post.
Look, more people drink that piss than the uppity flat drink you like and you should be grateful for that.  It means there is always some around for you to drink and be superior to the rest of us.

I like clear beer, yup pale and light yellow it's my preference and what I like but you go be a beer snob because we don't have enough things people try and put people down about why not add thier choice of beer
 
2022-08-08 11:55:43 AM  

Muttleywantsamedal: Hand Pulled cask ales (i.e. proper beer) will never suffer from this problem.


Yeah but you have a ~3 day shelf life for a keg that's ready to serve so you can't do that at most bars.
 
2022-08-08 11:58:08 AM  

ctighe2353: madgonad: None of the beers I drink require CO2 in production/bottling. Maybe it is just the piss that come out of Inbev and Molson Coors plants?

Well you are so much better than all of us.  Our simple palates cannot handle such complex flavors and the cost is to high for us poor people to pay.  You are far superior in every way imaginable.

Or that's what I read from your post.
Look, more people drink that piss than the uppity flat drink you like and you should be grateful for that.  It means there is always some around for you to drink and be superior to the rest of us.

I like clear beer, yup pale and light yellow it's my preference and what I like but you go be a beer snob because we don't have enough things people try and put people down about why not add thier choice of beer


i think the deal'o on the beer thgin here is that a good clear yellow larger can and is made naturally in a way that also naturally carbonizes the beverage.
If the point of drinking the cheap ass inbev/molson is just to get the boozseahol in us, what's the point of carbonizing the chit at all?
It just is what it is, and tell me the folks that drink that so their alcoholism is affordable, would give a rat's ass if it was carbonated or not.

The inject Co2, so they can call it beer, cause ti got defined as having co2 in it, so to sell "beer" it has to have co2, but they don't care how it gets in there.
You see how dumb ass that is right? that the clear yellow alcohol liquid takes longer to make and costs more to buy, because they inject co2 into it, just so they can sell you 'bee" instead of whatever they have to call it that you might not buy....because ti was the fizzy CO2 that you were really in for and not just the cheep booze?

Why pay for the co2 at all when that's not just in their naturally by process anyway?
 
2022-08-08 12:01:40 PM  

madgonad: None of the beers I drink require CO2 in production/bottling. Maybe it is just the piss that come out of Inbev and Molson Coors plants?


Oh hows it feel up on that high horse? Nationwide most micro/nano breweries use CO2 when serving or canning (cans outsell bottles). Only a bottle/cask conditioned beer wouldn't require co2 at any point. That is such an absurdly small % of beer sold, probably talking 5% in the US.
 
2022-08-08 12:06:29 PM  

ctighe2353: madgonad: None of the beers I drink require CO2 in production/bottling. Maybe it is just the piss that come out of Inbev and Molson Coors plants?

Well you are so much better than all of us.  Our simple palates cannot handle such complex flavors and the cost is to high for us poor people to pay.  You are far superior in every way imaginable.

Or that's what I read from your post.
Look, more people drink that piss than the uppity flat drink you like and you should be grateful for that.  It means there is always some around for you to drink and be superior to the rest of us.

I like clear beer, yup pale and light yellow it's my preference and what I like but you go be a beer snob because we don't have enough things people try and put people down about why not add thier choice of beer


No, the implication is that injecting CO2 during production is a shortcut which allows them to produce bland beer as quickly as possible. Their entire product lines are designed around keeping costs low (cheap ingredients) and rapid production (more gallons produced from the same equipment),

Using artificial carbonation is the beer-equivalent to making moonshine instead of whiskey. The time and effort makes an inherently superior product.
 
2022-08-08 12:09:42 PM  
I'm sure the macro breweries don't have problems with their food/beverage grade CO2 supplies.

Maybe they have cornered the market on CO2  and laugh at the smaller breweries going out of business.

I've heard that for many things made by the macros (particularly lite beers) they ferment at high gravity giving a high alcohol content and then dilute it and fizz it up before packaging.
 
2022-08-08 12:10:24 PM  
PvtStash:

Why pay for the co2 at all when that's not just in their naturally by process anyway?

Because co2 recapture is extremely expensive. You have to filter, chill/compress/liquefy, and store it. Some breweries do it. Most of the co2 you buy from Airgas is from industrial alcohol production.

The rest of what you said is mostly bullshiat. As I said in my last post nearly every craft brewery in the country (and there's probably 5000 of them), use co2.  For modern production, transport, serving and storage, you need to add co2.
 
2022-08-08 12:12:22 PM  

justanotherfarkinfarker: madgonad: None of the beers I drink require CO2 in production/bottling. Maybe it is just the piss that come out of Inbev and Molson Coors plants?

Oh hows it feel up on that high horse? Nationwide most micro/nano breweries use CO2 when serving or canning (cans outsell bottles). Only a bottle/cask conditioned beer wouldn't require co2 at any point. That is such an absurdly small % of beer sold, probably talking 5% in the US.


Correct. However cans can be conditioned, but I believe that CO2 is used anyway during canning to push the oxygen (in the air) out of the can before filling. Don't want O2 in your beer.
 
2022-08-08 12:13:34 PM  

madgonad: Using artificial carbonation is the beer-equivalent to making moonshine instead of whiskey. The time and effort makes an inherently superior product.


Again, that's just not true. To serve draft or can/bottle you need co2. Even your ten barrel organic hipster run craft brewery, needs co2.  Has nothing to do with making shiat beer.
 
2022-08-08 12:13:49 PM  

BuehrlesToTheWall: If only there was some way to make CO2 from some kind of natural process inherent to beer making


That works great for homebrewing but takes way too long for mass production.

The article fails to explicitly state it, but industrial CO2 comes from petroleum processing which is why there's a shortage right now. I wonder what this is doing to the cost of soda production...
 
2022-08-08 12:15:07 PM  
I'll just stick to my homebrew mead.
 
2022-08-08 12:17:32 PM  

lilbjorn: Craft beer making who feel they need to add CO2 to their product can just suck it
out of the air.


Air is like .04% co2. Good luck with that. $$$
 
2022-08-08 12:19:28 PM  

justanotherfarkinfarker: For modern production, transport, serving and storage, you need to add co2.


Serving only uses it because it won't contaminate the kegged beer. The cask can be conditioned, but the bar will use CO2/N2 to pressurize the lines. Very few bars will pump beer - however many kegs sold directly to consumers will be hand pumped.

Anyway, you can clearly taste the difference between the exact same beer which is packaged both bottle conditioned and canned. Technically the can protects the beer from light the most, but the flavor is much weaker from the can than from a conditioned bottle.
 
2022-08-08 12:23:26 PM  

justanotherfarkinfarker: madgonad: Using artificial carbonation is the beer-equivalent to making moonshine instead of whiskey. The time and effort makes an inherently superior product.

Again, that's just not true. To serve draft or can/bottle you need co2. Even your ten barrel organic hipster run craft brewery, needs co2.  Has nothing to do with making shiat beer.


As I just mentioned - bars/restaurants use CO2/N2 to pressurize the lines which also prevents contamination. They do this regardless of if the keg is conditioned or not. Conditioned beer won't absorb that much industrial CO2 when connected to the lines. Only so much will dissolve at line pressure.
 
2022-08-08 12:25:52 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: BuehrlesToTheWall: If only there was some way to make CO2 from some kind of natural process inherent to beer making

That works great for homebrewing but takes way too long for mass production.

The article fails to explicitly state it, but industrial CO2 comes from petroleum processing which is why there's a shortage right now. I wonder what this is doing to the cost of soda production...


Actually from concrete and ethanol production.
 
2022-08-08 12:27:09 PM  
There was a young girl named, Anheuser. Wouldn't heed, when folks would advise her! Her and Pabst, took a chance, had a whirlwind romance, and now they're both, sadder, Budweiser!
 
2022-08-08 12:42:19 PM  

madgonad: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: BuehrlesToTheWall: If only there was some way to make CO2 from some kind of natural process inherent to beer making

That works great for homebrewing but takes way too long for mass production.

The article fails to explicitly state it, but industrial CO2 comes from petroleum processing which is why there's a shortage right now. I wonder what this is doing to the cost of soda production...

Actually from concrete and ethanol production.


Actually from ammonia and fertilizer production , primarily, for food-grade sources but I double-checked and petroleum products (usually diesel or natural gas) is the 2nd leading source.

I could see a large brewery capturing CO2 from fermentation and reusing it in bottling if it could be justified financially. I didn't see much literature on it while searching though.
 
2022-08-08 1:00:48 PM  

justanotherfarkinfarker: Muttleywantsamedal: Hand Pulled cask ales (i.e. proper beer) will never suffer from this problem.

Yeah but you have a ~3 day shelf life for a keg that's ready to serve so you can't do that at most bars.


Which is why cask ale almost died out in the UK, and was only saved by an organization proving that A) they would buy cask ales, even at a premium and B) they wouldn't buy draft/canned beer and thus they would be lost as customers and C) there were enough of them that they made a difference. (CAMRA, in case you're wondering.)

Such hasn't happened in the US because we never had the cask ale system, mainly because our beer heritage goes back to German brewing, not English.
 
2022-08-08 1:23:33 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Actually from ammonia and fertilizer production , primarily, for food-grade sources but I double-checked and petroleum products (usually diesel or natural gas) is the 2nd leading source.


The source is natural gas. Ammonia producers strip off the hydrogen for their process, and then sell the CO2 as a secondary revenue stream. It's also possible to get that hydrogen from electrolysis of water, in which case there is no carbon to deal with.
 
2022-08-08 1:29:57 PM  

justanotherfarkinfarker: PvtStash:

Why pay for the co2 at all when that's not just in their naturally by process anyway?

Because co2 recapture is extremely expensive. You have to filter, chill/compress/liquefy, and store it. Some breweries do it. Most of the co2 you buy from Airgas is from industrial alcohol production.

The rest of what you said is mostly bullshiat. As I said in my last post nearly every craft brewery in the country (and there's probably 5000 of them), use co2.  For modern production, transport, serving and storage, you need to add co2.



you missed what i was speaking about i think.

you say you need the co2, can you explain why? Why did the "beer" NEED the co2 in it, in the first place?
Or is that kind of an arbitrary thing retaliative to the creation of an alcoholic drink?
Like does it have to have the co2 in it or it owuld somehow be poisons to drink or not get you drunk?

Like this:
do you believe the drinkers are drinking it for the fizzy bubble part of the experience, like outwith that they would reject the beverage and not buy it, because the fizzy part of the beverage is THE aspect of the experience they drink that beverage for? And lacking it they would not touch it at all?

Is that why the "beer" needs the co2 as you say, or is the co2 maybe more of an arbitrary side line thing that we somehow got irrationally hung up on and so of course now we just add co2, because irrational market expectations?
 
2022-08-08 1:38:57 PM  

fragMasterFlash: BuehrlesToTheWall: If only there was some way to make CO2 from some kind of natural process inherent to beer making

Not every fermenter can handle the pressure required for beer to self-carbonate. Packaging, distribution and serving system systems have their own requirements for C02 gas as well.


Free market in action!
 
2022-08-08 1:42:03 PM  

pheelix: stuhayes2010: If you have yeast, you have a CO2 source.  I find most craft beers too fizzy in the bottle anyway, so, just go natural and stop adding CO2.


That's not as easy as you think. The ~10 days or so it takes to carbonate beer the old fashioned way means they need some way to store it while it does that and if they're already brewing at full capacity, they don't have the space. Either prices go way up or profits go way down.


Not able to make beer at all equals NO PROFIT!
 
2022-08-08 1:43:39 PM  

ctighe2353: madgonad: None of the beers I drink require CO2 in production/bottling. Maybe it is just the piss that come out of Inbev and Molson Coors plants?

Well you are so much better than all of us.  Our simple palates cannot handle such complex flavors and the cost is to high for us poor people to pay.  You are far superior in every way imaginable.

Or that's what I read from your post.
Look, more people drink that piss than the uppity flat drink you like and you should be grateful for that.  It means there is always some around for you to drink and be superior to the rest of us.

I like clear beer, yup pale and light yellow it's my preference and what I like but you go be a beer snob because we don't have enough things people try and put people down about why not add thier choice of beer


Sometimes really wrong with you if you're over 18 and still like that piss stuff.
 
2022-08-08 1:48:51 PM  

justanotherfarkinfarker: madgonad: Using artificial carbonation is the beer-equivalent to making moonshine instead of whiskey. The time and effort makes an inherently superior product.

Again, that's just not true. To serve draft or can/bottle you need co2. Even your ten barrel organic hipster run craft brewery, needs co2.  Has nothing to do with making shiat beer.


Real hipsters use nitrogen, but you wouldn't understand
 
2022-08-08 2:15:55 PM  

madgonad: None of the beers I drink require CO2 in production/bottling. Maybe it is just the piss that come out of Inbev and Molson Coors plants?


Makesons XXXX Milk Stout is the only beer I enjoy that has to be force carbonated.
 
2022-08-08 2:16:34 PM  

Klom Dark: Real hipsters use nitrogen, but you wouldn't understand


Pish tosh.  Argon's the thing.  Noble gas to go with the noble hops.
 
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