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(Internet Archive)   Pediatric orthopedic surgeon makes the mistake of tweeting that a child with scoliosis shouldn't visit a chiropractor. Learns a valuable lesson in the mental state of chiropractor fans   (web.archive.org) divider line
    More: Awkward, shot  
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4888 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Aug 2022 at 5:30 AM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-08-07 9:57:54 PM  
Original Tweet:

 
2022-08-08 1:21:40 AM  
Are you implying that chiropractic fans are not well adjusted?
 
2022-08-08 2:11:10 AM  
Last April I wrenched my back terribly, to the point I could barely get out of bed and couldn't tie my shoes for a couple days. I hurt it the way a good Farker should, lifting a keg of beer out of a van.

Desperate, I tried a chiropractor and left with minor relief, but just as bad the next day.  I went to a doctor, a younger guy who told me he had broken his back a couple years earlier.  He recommended a nearby massage parlor, which he said did more for him than anything else.  I looked it up online and it appeared.... questionable.  But I was desperate, so I went, hoping I would not be the next Robert Kraft or Deshaun Watson.  After one session I was back to 75%.  After the second session I was 100%.  And no funny business.

So my personal anecdotal experience is Asian massage parlor > doctor > chiropractor.

Please do your own research, though, because your results may vary substantially..
 
2022-08-08 2:18:40 AM  
The wikipedia page on the guy who invented the Chiropractic method is super crazy. Dude was a snake oil salesman who claimed the spirit of a deceased Dr passed on the practice to him

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_David_Palmer
 
2022-08-08 5:37:58 AM  
Chiroquacktic is unscientific superstitious nonsense at its core.
 
2022-08-08 5:40:42 AM  
I have had my back done many times, (free through GFs work) I won't have my neck done, but it seems like work on back.
My 2¢.
 
2022-08-08 5:42:34 AM  

Maybe you should drive: Last April I wrenched my back terribly, to the point I could barely get out of bed and couldn't tie my shoes for a couple days. I hurt it the way a good Farker should, lifting a keg of beer out of a van.

Desperate, I tried a chiropractor and left with minor relief, but just as bad the next day.  I went to a doctor, a younger guy who told me he had broken his back a couple years earlier.  He recommended a nearby massage parlor, which he said did more for him than anything else.  I looked it up online and it appeared.... questionable.  But I was desperate, so I went, hoping I would not be the next Robert Kraft or Deshaun Watson.  After one session I was back to 75%.  After the second session I was 100%.  And no funny business.

So my personal anecdotal experience is Asian massage parlor > doctor > chiropractor.

Please do your own research, though, because your results may vary substantially..


In your case the underlying issue was musculature not skeletal.
 
2022-08-08 5:43:15 AM  

Smurfnazi420: I have had my back done many times, (free through GFs work) I won't have my neck done, but it seems like work on back.
My 2¢.


You essentially went to physical therapist. Real chiropractic believes it can cure farking cancer and every other disease in the world.
 
2022-08-08 5:44:42 AM  

Maybe you should drive: Last April I wrenched my back terribly, to the point I could barely get out of bed and couldn't tie my shoes for a couple days. I hurt it the way a good Farker should, lifting a keg of beer out of a van.

Desperate, I tried a chiropractor and left with minor relief, but just as bad the next day.  I went to a doctor, a younger guy who told me he had broken his back a couple years earlier.  He recommended a nearby massage parlor, which he said did more for him than anything else.  I looked it up online and it appeared.... questionable.  But I was desperate, so I went, hoping I would not be the next Robert Kraft or Deshaun Watson.  After one session I was back to 75%.  After the second session I was 100%.  And no funny business.

So my personal anecdotal experience is Asian massage parlor > doctor > chiropractor.

Please do your own research, though, because your results may vary substantially..


Sounds like a happy ending!
 
2022-08-08 5:46:26 AM  

dsmith42: Smurfnazi420: I have had my back done many times, (free through GFs work) I won't have my neck done, but it seems like work on back.
My 2¢.

You essentially went to physical therapist. Real chiropractic believes it can cure farking cancer and every other disease in the world.


Yeah, massage therapy, especially when they're well trained, can be very helpful.

(Including 'hey your posture sucks b/c you're not using some muscles properly, so I am going to pin this muscle in place and have you do a specific movement so you can figure out how to do it WITHOUT that muscle.  You'll know when you do it wrong because it will hurt like fark while I'm doing this.')
 
2022-08-08 5:52:16 AM  

born_yesterday: Maybe you should drive: Last April I wrenched my back terribly, to the point I could barely get out of bed and couldn't tie my shoes for a couple days. I hurt it the way a good Farker should, lifting a keg of beer out of a van.

Desperate, I tried a chiropractor and left with minor relief, but just as bad the next day.  I went to a doctor, a younger guy who told me he had broken his back a couple years earlier.  He recommended a nearby massage parlor, which he said did more for him than anything else.  I looked it up online and it appeared.... questionable.  But I was desperate, so I went, hoping I would not be the next Robert Kraft or Deshaun Watson.  After one session I was back to 75%.  After the second session I was 100%.  And no funny business.

So my personal anecdotal experience is Asian massage parlor > doctor > chiropractor.

Please do your own research, though, because your results may vary substantially..

Sounds like a happy ending!


Hey, no spoilers!
 
2022-08-08 6:01:51 AM  
I occasionally see a chiropractor who is really a sports medicine/massage therapist. He does great work, and has never said the word "subluxation".
 
2022-08-08 6:05:07 AM  
My CSS: My pediatrician lost his license because he did chiropractic adjustments. He did it to me a couple of times after we found out I had scoliosis (mid 1990's). My family wasn't the one that sued, but I guess we could have. I had already moved on to Shriner's before Dr. Chin disappeared, and only found out what happened several years later.
 
2022-08-08 6:08:08 AM  

Felgraf: dsmith42: Smurfnazi420: I have had my back done many times, (free through GFs work) I won't have my neck done, but it seems like work on back.
My 2¢.

You essentially went to physical therapist. Real chiropractic believes it can cure farking cancer and every other disease in the world.

Yeah, massage therapy, especially when they're well trained, can be very helpful.

(Including 'hey your posture sucks b/c you're not using some muscles properly, so I am going to pin this muscle in place and have you do a specific movement so you can figure out how to do it WITHOUT that muscle.  You'll know when you do it wrong because it will hurt like fark while I'm doing this.')


Sounds odd. Never heard of massage pinning a muscle in place and google doesn't find it. Closest I found was pin and stretch massage method which does not pin a muscle to place.
 
2022-08-08 6:08:30 AM  
I use to work for a radiologist. I did transcription.

Occasionally a chiropractor would send x-rays to him to be read. (For insurance or patient's family wanting a second opinion) The chiropractor would include a laundry list diagnosis of problems and conditions having  nothing to with the actual films.

Lesions. Chiropractors were wild about lesions on X-rays.

The X-rays we're almost always read as normal. Occasionally "copious amounts of gas in the bowels" would be indicated on the read.
 
2022-08-08 6:08:38 AM  
My father-in-law was a surgeon. He saw some killed by "adjustments". Hard pass.
 
2022-08-08 6:12:04 AM  
Chiropractors on YouTube is one of the most farking strange online communities out there. They act like rock stars.
 
2022-08-08 6:16:45 AM  
Facts:

➡Some children with scoliosis require surgery.

➡Some children with scoliosis don't require surgery.

➡Chiropractors can help those kids who don't need surgery.

➡Chiropractors can't really help those kids that require surgery.

The internet can't handle nuance and big tech companies will use this to their advantage to steal your data.
 
2022-08-08 6:18:31 AM  
Junior year of high school.  Face plaster with acne, no friends, looking at summer school and a chronic cough. One, just one adjustment and my face cleared up, voted class president, valedictorian, took the homecoming queen to the prom. Still have the cough. I was going for a second adjustment but was worried about how assume I would be
 
2022-08-08 6:22:10 AM  

mistahtom: Facts:

➡Some children with scoliosis require surgery.

➡Some children with scoliosis don't require surgery.

➡Chiropractors can help those kids who don't need surgery.

➡Chiropractors can't really help those kids that require surgery.

The internet can't handle nuance and big tech companies will use this to their advantage to steal your data.


Chiropractors have not helped anyone any more than a physical therapist can without pseudoscientific and spiritual nonsense.

But they can certainly charge more for it.
 
2022-08-08 6:23:44 AM  

Circusdog320: I use to work for a radiologist. I did transcription.

Occasionally a chiropractor would send x-rays to him to be read. (For insurance or patient's family wanting a second opinion) The chiropractor would include a laundry list diagnosis of problems and conditions having  nothing to with the actual films.

Lesions. Chiropractors were wild about lesions on X-rays.

The X-rays we're almost always read as normal. Occasionally "copious amounts of gas in the bowels" would be indicated on the read.


it's farking terrifying that chiropractors can order and/or perform X Rays
 
2022-08-08 6:24:36 AM  
Would visit a chiropractor 2-3 times a week when I had really great insurance. Helped, but never fixed me.
About three years ago a friend got me in touch with a medical massage therapist that works out of her house. I was semi skeptical, but after the first visit it was night and day. A follow up was needed a week later, but now I go every 2-3 months and it has been a life saver and game changer.

Recently completed a half Ironman, and while my back did bother me during it, that would have never been an option or thought before.

As with all things, there are some quacks and good ones out there. Keep looking if you have not found a good one yet.
 
2022-08-08 6:29:24 AM  
mistahtom:➡Chiropractors can help those kids who don't need surgery.

Chiropractors and witch doctors and ice cream salesmen all have equal chances of helping kids that don't need surgery.

The entire field of chiropracty is nonsense.  It's not even pseudo-scientific.  It's anti-scientific.  That's why there isn't a single school of chiropracty associated with a research university anywhere.
 
2022-08-08 6:30:36 AM  

dsmith42: Smurfnazi420: I have had my back done many times, (free through GFs work) I won't have my neck done, but it seems like work on back.
My 2¢.

You essentially went to physical therapist. Real chiropractic believes it can cure farking cancer and every other disease in the world.


THIS.

I have a college buddy who followed his dad into the family chiropractic business.  He is a SUPER nice guy AND is remarkably intelligent except for this belief that back cracking can solve the world's problems.  That said, he has cured me repeatedly of lower back strains that have I have experienced after particularly rough work over the years.  Lower back strain is the ONLY thing that chiropractic work has been proven to fix via controlled studies.

/CSB
 
2022-08-08 6:34:26 AM  
I have a friend who went to a chiropractor religiously for 3 years, once a week, for his "sessions."  Claimed to have constant back pain and the chiro helped oh, so much.  Finally his brother saw the bills and asked him if he'd ever seen any other sort of medical doctor about the issue.

Convinced him to see even his general practitioner (who had NO idea he was having back problems).  A quick diagnosis led to a bone and joint specialist, who quickly found a bulge in one of his vertebrae that was irritating some nerve cluster (or something, blah blah medical blah blah).  One cortisone shot and a month of physical therapy later (all covered under insurance), his back problems disappeared completely.

Chiropractors are band aids, and very expensive ones at that.
 
2022-08-08 6:36:03 AM  

razyjean: My CSS: My pediatrician lost his license because he did chiropractic adjustments. He did it to me a couple of times after we found out I had scoliosis (mid 1990's). My family wasn't the one that sued, but I guess we could have. I had already moved on to Shriner's before Dr. Chin disappeared, and only found out what happened several years later.


I remember him. He now does plastic surgery work for the Asian community so he can help other Chins disappear.
 
2022-08-08 6:37:04 AM  
20 years ago i was playing basketball..the ball was passed to me low down around my ankles i reached down to get it and i hit the floor as soon as i grabbed it.  i couldn't get up or move anything below my waist..not because i was paralyzed but because any lower limb movement was met with unholy pain.  they dragged me off the court and I did not improve.

they called an ambulance and got to the hospital.  the doctor gave me pain meds and told me to wiggle my toes...which i could do without pain.  then he told me lift my legs and i told him i could not because of the pain.  he gave me more pain meds and said it was muscular and sent me home.

all night i could not sleep the pain was getting worse.  the next day, i was carried to a chiropractor and he took a side view x-ray of my back and there was a bunch of soft tissue pinched in between my vertebrae in my lower back.

he put me on a machine that moved my legs up and down slowly and each downstroke he pushed on my lower back.  i was fixed up in 20 mins.

my back is still farked up to this day but at least i can walk
 
2022-08-08 6:42:41 AM  
I know many otherwise smart people who will not hear anything said against chiropractors.  It's like a cult, they have a complete blind spot for it when it comes to evidence and reason.  Pushed enough, most will default to some version of "well, MY chiropractor isn't like that", as if they weren't saying, "well, MY witch doctor isn't like that".

They go every week or month for their 'adjustment' that they swear by and just can't live without.

At best, a chiropractor is an untrained masseuse who thinks they understand what they're doing.  Most of the time what they accomplish is a temporary relief and taking credit for your body healing itself.  Maybe keeping you from going to a real doctor and getting a real diagnosis that could lead to a treatment that stops the problem from coming back.  At worst, they can actually cripple or kill you playing around with your neck.

Chiropractors ought to be in jail for practicing medicine without a license, not glorified and paid for by your insurance plan.
 
2022-08-08 6:43:22 AM  
Pfft. I was doing deep bar squats today.

*Brrrt.pop.pop.chunk *

"Holy crap am I going to drop this!?"

/Thanks for lumbar adjustment, bar squat
 
2022-08-08 6:44:39 AM  

hardinparamedic: mistahtom: Facts:

➡Some children with scoliosis require surgery.

➡Some children with scoliosis don't require surgery.

➡Chiropractors can help those kids who don't need surgery.

➡Chiropractors can't really help those kids that require surgery.

The internet can't handle nuance and big tech companies will use this to their advantage to steal your data.

Chiropractors have not helped anyone any more than a physical therapist can without pseudoscientific and spiritual nonsense.

But they can certainly charge more for it.


My Mom was a physiotherapist who later got her Bachelor's in science (from McGill back when it was a good/great school) and had horrible back problems.
She absolutely loathed chiropractic treatment methods. That's all I need to know. Hard pass.
 
2022-08-08 6:45:56 AM  
Speaking as someone who's seen a 20 year old paralyzed from a vertebral artery dissection caused by a chiropractic adjustment, I'm not getting a kick out of this.

If any other procedure in medicine had this risk with no benefit identified, they'd stop doing it completely.
 
2022-08-08 6:48:18 AM  

anuran: Chiroquacktic is unscientific superstitious nonsense at its core.


I used to say just THAT.

Until a singular adjustment allowed me to flush a ton of valium.

The doctor who prescribed it?
Busted for being a pill mill.

The chiro?
He works on mostly children, and some musicians. But he is a pain reliever and non addictive.

Ymmv.
 
2022-08-08 6:55:17 AM  

wildbill0712: Would visit a chiropractor 2-3 times a week when I had really great insurance. Helped, but never fixed me.
About three years ago a friend got me in touch with a medical massage therapist that works out of her house. I was semi skeptical, but after the first visit it was night and day. A follow up was needed a week later, but now I go every 2-3 months and it has been a life saver and game changer.

As with all things, there are some quacks and good ones out there. Keep looking if you have not found a good one yet.


"A chiropractor took my money but never gave me more than a massage.  Later I went to a proper medical professional who understood what they were doing and while it was still 'just a massage' it actually helped a lot more.  This is proof that chiropractors aren't all quacks".

WTF kind of logic is that?
 
2022-08-08 6:55:35 AM  
My friend was disabled with chronic pain after someone did an "adjustment" on her neck.  The quack who injured her then refused to return her phone calls
 
2022-08-08 6:56:27 AM  

Maybe you should drive: Last April I wrenched my back terribly, to the point I could barely get out of bed and couldn't tie my shoes for a couple days. I hurt it the way a good Farker should, lifting a keg of beer out of a van.

Desperate, I tried a chiropractor and left with minor relief, but just as bad the next day.  I went to a doctor, a younger guy who told me he had broken his back a couple years earlier.  He recommended a nearby massage parlor, which he said did more for him than anything else.  I looked it up online and it appeared.... questionable.  But I was desperate, so I went, hoping I would not be the next Robert Kraft or Deshaun Watson.  After one session I was back to 75%.  After the second session I was 100%.  And no funny business.

So my personal anecdotal experience is Asian massage parlor > doctor > chiropractor.

Please do your own research, though, because your results may vary substantially..


As someone who is flat on her back in excruciating pain despite being prescribed Percocet, WHERE is this place???
 
2022-08-08 6:56:57 AM  
Minor degrees of scoliosis are common. They do not require treatment. Even some clinically significant scoliosis can improve or resolve. I frequently see children taken to chiropractors with scoliosis that needs monitoring. The parents are being robbed.

Hippocrates was renown as a famous physician in Athens and was in high demand. We remember him because he laid out the principles of ethical medicine, not because he could cure his patients. He practiced humoral medicine, and really had little to offer other than supportive care, and he understood that. The reason his patients improved was because he was a good diagnostician, and would not take a patient he knew was not going to get better. He was credited with the cure when his patient improved or survived. Chiropractors do the same thing quite often. Some are decent people, and the good ones function as physical therapists. Very few understand their own limits
 
2022-08-08 6:57:52 AM  

vudukungfu: anuran: Chiroquacktic is unscientific superstitious nonsense at its core.

I used to say just THAT.

Until a singular adjustment allowed me to flush a ton of valium.

The doctor who prescribed it?
Busted for being a pill mill.

The chiro?
He works on mostly children, and some musicians. But he is a pain reliever and non addictive.

Ymmv.


I once told a chiropractor that he should just buy himself a duck. Duck? He asked. Yeah, just wave it over your patients head and chant. What would that do? The same thing your adjustments do. About 33% of the time the patient will get better. About 33% of the time they will get worse. And about 33% of the time they will stay the same. When they get better they will attribute it to the duck and tell all of their friends to get duck therapy.
 
2022-08-08 6:59:53 AM  

thisisyourbrainonFark: razyjean: My CSS: My pediatrician lost his license because he did chiropractic adjustments. He did it to me a couple of times after we found out I had scoliosis (mid 1990's). My family wasn't the one that sued, but I guess we could have. I had already moved on to Shriner's before Dr. Chin disappeared, and only found out what happened several years later.

I remember him. He now does plastic surgery work for the Asian community so he can help other Chins disappear.


c.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-08 7:00:04 AM  

vudukungfu: anuran: Chiroquacktic is unscientific superstitious nonsense at its core.

I used to say just THAT.

Until a singular adjustment allowed me to flush a ton of valium.

The doctor who prescribed it?
Busted for being a pill mill.

The chiro?
He works on mostly children, and some musicians. But he is a pain reliever and non addictive.

Ymmv.


valium Is an anti anxiety drug.

The chiropractor cured your anxiety?
 
2022-08-08 7:00:19 AM  
Best case: a chiropractor is a massage that your insurance will pay for and the massage therapist can prescribe medicine.

Worst case: you get messed up pretty good.

My mom used to swear by this chiropractor but the best I could tell, the guy was just giving her a massage.
 
2022-08-08 7:02:44 AM  
Has anyone here tried acupuncture?
 
2022-08-08 7:03:44 AM  
I farked myself up very badly once and had to be wheeled into the chiropractor's office; I was able to walk out.

She didn't try to align my chakras or whatever the hell some of these people are doing.

It was very subtle treatment, more like an osteopath.

My osteopath now is a flippin' miracle worker.  So like, if you think you need a chiropractor, find a DO that does the manipulations.

Also try not to fark yourselves up.  Or have musculoskeletal disabilities. Truly the key to happiness, that bit of advice is.
 
2022-08-08 7:04:50 AM  

Circusdog320: vudukungfu: anuran: Chiroquacktic is unscientific superstitious nonsense at its core.

I used to say just THAT.

Until a singular adjustment allowed me to flush a ton of valium.

The doctor who prescribed it?
Busted for being a pill mill.

The chiro?
He works on mostly children, and some musicians. But he is a pain reliever and non addictive.

Ymmv.

valium Is an anti anxiety drug.

The chiropractor cured your anxiety?


Probably taking it as a muscle relaxer.
 
2022-08-08 7:08:34 AM  

twonky: The wikipedia page on the guy who invented the Chiropractic method is super crazy. Dude was a snake oil salesman who claimed the spirit of a deceased Dr passed on the practice to him

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_David_Palmer


Do we need to read stories about people who might or might not have one good idea in life and then went on to be cuckoo for cocoa puffs? They include great scientists, philosophers, economists, humanitarians, political leaders, etc.

I mean, I would love it if it were that easy, but it just isn't. And then you have the crazies who might have done some good, which might be Buddha, Jesus and others. And some people who seem like they are doing great things, but are really just crazy.

I am not so sure that there is any gray frontier separating the idiot from the sublime anymore. There is probably just "reason" and "everything else." And "everything else" is going to work sometimes.
 
2022-08-08 7:11:33 AM  

James T. Kirk: vudukungfu: anuran: Chiroquacktic is unscientific superstitious nonsense at its core.

I used to say just THAT.

Until a singular adjustment allowed me to flush a ton of valium.

The doctor who prescribed it?
Busted for being a pill mill.

The chiro?
He works on mostly children, and some musicians. But he is a pain reliever and non addictive.

Ymmv.

I once told a chiropractor that he should just buy himself a duck. Duck? He asked. Yeah, just wave it over your patients head and chant. What would that do? The same thing your adjustments do. About 33% of the time the patient will get better. About 33% of the time they will get worse. And about 33% of the time they will stay the same. When they get better they will attribute it to the duck and tell all of their friends to get duck therapy.


Agree. This is sage advice.

Joke aside, for some reason the placebo effect works. Which is baffling, but there you are.
 
2022-08-08 7:14:28 AM  

Cheron: Junior year of high school.  Face plaster with acne, no friends, looking at summer school and a chronic cough. One, just one adjustment and my face cleared up, voted class president, valedictorian, took the homecoming queen to the prom. Still have the cough. I was going for a second adjustment but was worried about how assume I would be


Just very obliquely related. I knew a young lady with several unfortunate health problems that cleared right up after she became romantically involved with the love of her life.

I would not be surprised at all if, with the lack of human contact and stress that people have to live with, the simple laying of hands and massage... or whatever... would cure all kinds of problems people have with posture, self-image, stress, pain, etc.
 
2022-08-08 7:16:51 AM  

mistahtom: Facts:

➡Some children with scoliosis require surgery.

➡Some children with scoliosis don't require surgery.

➡Chiropractors can help those kids who don't need surgery.

➡Chiropractors can't really help those kids that require surgery.

The internet can't handle nuance and big tech companies will use this to their advantage to steal your data.


But 99.9% of quakerpractors will look at a kid with scoliosis who needs surgery and will say 'yea i can totally fix this cuz magic adjustments' cuz they are quacks.
 
2022-08-08 7:18:19 AM  

Duck_of_Doom: James T. Kirk: vudukungfu: anuran: Chiroquacktic is unscientific superstitious nonsense at its core.

I used to say just THAT.

Until a singular adjustment allowed me to flush a ton of valium.

The doctor who prescribed it?
Busted for being a pill mill.

The chiro?
He works on mostly children, and some musicians. But he is a pain reliever and non addictive.

Ymmv.

I once told a chiropractor that he should just buy himself a duck. Duck? He asked. Yeah, just wave it over your patients head and chant. What would that do? The same thing your adjustments do. About 33% of the time the patient will get better. About 33% of the time they will get worse. And about 33% of the time they will stay the same. When they get better they will attribute it to the duck and tell all of their friends to get duck therapy.

Agree. This is sage advice.

Joke aside, for some reason the placebo effect works. Which is baffling, but there you are.


It's really not.  That placebo effect is many effects and an important thing to remember is that it is about reported improvements, not improvements.

Is it baffling that people who are looking for a miracle cure remember the last thing that happened before a random improvement?

Is it baffling that people are suggestible and will report improvement just because an expert told them there was improvement?

Is it baffling that people like being listened to and will report improvements to go along with that?

No, all of those are understandable.  Just people being people.  Most of the placebo effects are simply the result of folks doing typical human things.  It just backfires when you want your medicine based on science.
 
2022-08-08 7:18:28 AM  
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2022-08-08 7:20:12 AM  
A climbing acquaintance I have writes really good guide books. I recently hit him up about going climbing, and he told me he can't because he's in chiropractor school. I wept but didn't express my displeasure with him.

I didn't even ask how many times he's gotten COVID after hearing that.
 
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