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(The Drive)   Is your old clunker on this list?   (thedrive.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Automobile, Internal combustion engine, car CFC, Vehicle, Corporate Average Fuel Economy, Fuel efficiency, efficient cars, talk of a new buyback program  
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2589 clicks; posted to Business » and STEM » on 05 Aug 2022 at 10:05 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



33 Comments     (+0 »)
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2022-08-05 10:09:57 PM  
No, but looking at the picture some of those pickups are worth a fortune right now.
 
2022-08-05 10:17:42 PM  
Only cars made after 1984 were eligible?
 
2022-08-05 10:27:29 PM  
No, thank you.  I don't a note on a new or nearly new car, ICE or electric (certainly not a tax credit).  You want to swap me for one, then I'll talk.
 
2022-08-05 10:32:20 PM  
Indeed, mine is. Look for a 1988 Dodge D-150 pickup.

I had parked the truck over a year earlier because gasoline was $4 a gallon and with a 50-gallon tank I never had $200 to fill it up just to drive around getting about 10 mpg. That, and it had sprung a transmission leak that I didn't want to fix.

When C4C came around, I revived the truck. Tires were aired up, the rear brake lines had rotted so the pedal was really soft with just the front brakes, and it took a jump start and lots of starter fluid just to get it cranked over and running. I poured two gallons of ATF into the dipstick tube to make sure the transmission was totally overfilled and I drove it across town to the Hyundai dealership, trailing a constant stream of AFT on the pavement the entire way. I made sure the salesman saw me drive the vehicle onto the lot (the vehicles traded in had to be "running") when I parked it out back for destruction.

That best got me $4,500 off a Hyundai Accent. With a MSRP of $9,970, that was a 45% discount on a 3-door hatchback.
 
2022-08-05 10:33:23 PM  

ISO15693: Only cars made after 1984 were eligible?


The legislation finally settled on a 25-year window. Anything older was not allowed.

There are stories of people who had vehicles ready to trade in and the build date was a few weeks before the 25-year limit, so they got nothing.
 
2022-08-05 10:35:43 PM  

SpaceMonkey-66: No, thank you.  I don't a note on a new or nearly new car, ICE or electric (certainly not a tax credit).  You want to swap me for one, then I'll talk.


Daughter had an 8 year old Prius totalled by a moran that ran a stop sign last week. They had just replaced one car with a new electric one. Very bad timing.
 
2022-08-05 10:47:07 PM  
This part is wrong:

and its rebate and scrap value must be applied to a car that would be registered and insured for one continuous year after purchase

The rebate and scrap value were to be applied to the new vehicle, but the part about registration and insurance was that the vehicle being traded in had to have been registered and insured for one continuous year at the point of purchase. This was to keep people (like me!) from reviving parked vehicles and trading them in.

I got very lucky. Both the registration and insurance had lapsed on my parked pickup. My luck was as follows:
1. (registration) The State of Illinois used to give you a registration good for a year after purchase, and they rounded up to the end of the month so you got a little extra. If you registered on the 1st of a month, your registration was good for almost 13 months because it expired at the end of the same month. Another trick was that you could "forget" to renew the registration and coast for a few months until you might be stopped by police. You could "Aw, shucks" your way out of that by going and registering the vehicle to get the ticket dismissed. This meant that an increasing number of people would get about 15-18 months out of each annual registration by combining the extra free month with the couple months of "rolling dirty" until you were caught. The state fixed this by charging an extra $20 if your registration was expired for more than 30 days, and they would also only renew the registration for 12 months after the prior registration expiration if it was within the past 12 months. No more free period of coasting for some months. So, my registration had expired about 10 months before, but I gladly walked into the DMV and paid the extra $20 penalty and my registration was backdated for the entire year. I use a pencil eraser to smudge up the printed date of when I renewed the registration on the paperwork so they couldn't see what I did.
2. (insurance) I was still with the same insurance agency when I had dropped the truck about 10 months before. Luckily, I got my insurance guy to add it back and then they faxed me some documentation of the vehicle being on my current policy where it wasn't obvious that there was a gap.

I was lucky in two more ways:
1. Once the deal to purchase a new vehicle was approved, there was no way in the law for the selling dealership to claw back any of that sweet government cheddar if it wasn't approved for some reason. Dealerships were playing fast and loose with the paperwork and if they signed off for someone to drive away with a new vehicle and then didn't get paid for the old one? That's on them. My paperwork passed the minimal scrutiny of the dealership because I was there early (like, week one of the CFC program) and they didn't ask a lot of questions.
2. I heard rumors that the government people approving the paperwork were basically rubber stamping everything. The Department of Transportation was so overwhelmed with this program that I heard they called in about every DOT employee East of the Mississippi to be paperwork stampers with the CFC program. Like, FAA inspectors on all levels were detailed to go to offices and do CFC paperwork. I heard that there was about a 60 day period at ATL where no commercial airline pilot ever got sent on a FAA check ride because all the inspectors were busy doing CFC paperwork. I heard that there was about a 60 day period at ATL where no commercial aircraft got any routine or surprise inspections because all the inspectors were busy doing CFC paperwork.
 
2022-08-05 10:50:44 PM  
Digging through archive.org snapshots of government websites is doing the lords work.
 
2022-08-05 10:51:51 PM  
I'm sure mine is. Pretty sure every car that sells for less than $150,000 or so is on a list of 677,000 cars...
 
2022-08-05 10:58:10 PM  
Most traded in vehicle: Ford Explorer
Most purchased vehicle: Toyota Corolla

Congress subsidized the purchase of Japanese cars by giving trade-in credits for American SUVs.
 
2022-08-05 11:01:00 PM  
Also, remember when the EPA suddenly and mysteriously "revised" the mileage ratings for 78 vehicles, rendering them ineligible for trade-in?

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2009/07/68495610/1#.Yu3Y2OnMI3Q

A number of people had a vehicle ready to trade in and the EPA totally boned them with no explanation ever given for doing so.
 
2022-08-05 11:01:21 PM  
Why did that Cyber Truck article miss Fark?
 
2022-08-05 11:05:07 PM  
So I remember a news story about about a Maserati getting the clunker treatment back when this program was in full swing. Looking at the list there were actually 3 of them that got the US government metal scraps down the carburetor treatment, and I have no doubt at least one of them actually ran better after doing that.
 
2022-08-05 11:16:37 PM  

mrmopar5287: Most traded in vehicle: Ford Explorer
Most purchased vehicle: Toyota Corolla

Congress subsidized the purchase of Japanese cars by giving trade-in credits for American SUVs.


Toyota's Corolla plant is in Blue Springs, MS.  Whether the gains to the corporate level accrue in Japan or the US is almost equally irrelevant.
 
2022-08-05 11:18:57 PM  
Also, the line in the article pointing out that nationwide fleet econony didn't really improve fro. 2009-2010 due to mass car purchases.  Yeah, slamming interest rates to damn near zero will do that for those who still had jobs.
 
2022-08-05 11:23:03 PM  
My 1969 Volvo wagon probably is, but I sold it to some kid who took it down to San Diego.  Apparently, he never registered it, because about a year later I got a bill from an impound company.  I sent them a copy of the bill of sale and my registration form which I had filed with California.

I suspect it was worth more C4C than as a functioning car. It had over 185k miles on it when I sold it and the carburetors were a pain to keep functioning.
 
2022-08-05 11:30:50 PM  
I haven't dug through the list but my 1994 forest green Grand Cherokee Limited is somewhere on it. Best tank I ever got was 19 mpg going 65 on the highway (had the 5.2 liter) and once got 10.8 in the dead of winter.

Traded it in for a 2009 Fit Sport and more than doubled my gas mileage and got the car for $14k new., only selling that last year still for $5k so a rather low cost of ownership overall.

But man, that Cherokee started every time (I have only lived in MN or WI) and had the absolute most comfortable front seats I've ever sat in. And only had to change oil in nearly 5 years, nothing else. Unfortunately seemingly every Jeep since about 2000 is quite unreliable but apparently the mid '90s V8's were tough.
 
2022-08-05 11:36:18 PM  
There are a few that got crushed that shouldn't have been.

1987 Mercedes 300D 24 combined city/highway MPG 22 city 27 highway 4.2 gals/100 miles.
1984 Mercedes 300SD  22 combined city/highway MPG 21 city 23 highway 4.5 gals/100 miles
 
2022-08-05 11:46:03 PM  

Realms of the Colon: I haven't dug through the list but my 1994 forest green Grand Cherokee Limited is somewhere on it. Best tank I ever got was 19 mpg going 65 on the highway (had the 5.2 liter) and once got 10.8 in the dead of winter.

Traded it in for a 2009 Fit Sport and more than doubled my gas mileage and got the car for $14k new., only selling that last year still for $5k so a rather low cost of ownership overall.

But man, that Cherokee started every time (I have only lived in MN or WI) and had the absolute most comfortable front seats I've ever sat in. And only had to change oil in nearly 5 years, nothing else. Unfortunately seemingly every Jeep since about 2000 is quite unreliable but apparently the mid '90s V8's were tough.


The seats in the XJ Cherokees were amazing. I believe there were sourced from Renault. They had a function (at least on the ones with manual sears) where you could "pivot" the seat. It was almost like a height adjustment, but the entire seat rotated like a scoop.

Also had the wonderful 80's nut-cooler vent.

/parents had XJS through my childhood after the sent the POS Buick wagon packing.
//learned to drive in a 94 XJ
///that 4.0L I-6 was a beast.
 
2022-08-05 11:56:08 PM  

mrmopar5287: Most traded in vehicle: Ford Explorer


On the bright side, those stopped being sold for low-ball offers of a case of beer.


/Man, I had so many mid-90's Explorers pass through my hands back in the it-was-just-yesterday.
 
2022-08-06 12:22:21 AM  
My god I remember when that was happening and dying on the inside.
 
2022-08-06 12:29:02 AM  

omg bbq: My god I remember when that was happening and dying on the inside.


Me too. I would have much preferred to crack the engine block on my 2000 Chevy Blazer with a bullet.
 
2022-08-06 12:50:57 AM  
There'd have been less of an environmental impact if those "clunkers" had been left in the fleet until they finally broke down of their own accord.

It took a shiat ton of energy to replace every one of those perfectly functional machines.
 
2022-08-06 2:06:26 AM  

mrmopar5287: Most traded in vehicle: Ford Explorer
Most purchased vehicle: Toyota Corolla

Congress subsidized the purchase of Japanese cars by giving trade-in credits for American SUVs.


Toyota's US branch is the largest domestic car manufacturer in the continental United States, roughly tied with GM most of the time in overall volume.  And they source their entire production chain domestically much more consistently than GM, which relies heavily on outsourcing to Mexico and overseas.

If you want to "buy American", you should 100% buy Toyota over GM or any of its various subsidiaries/shell companies.  Ford... mostly keeps its production chains within the US and Mexico for vehicles sold in north America, but just from the fact that it's a smaller company buying a Ford is supporting fewer American workers than buying a Toyota.

Toyota's R&D and testing is also mostly US-based, whereas frankly from their performance I'm not sure that GM has any QA employees at all, anywhere.

Characterizing Toyotas as "Japanese" cars is to hilariously misunderstand the situation.  The only reason Toyota's US subdivision didn't soak up as many subsidies and payouts as GM over the last few decades is that Toyota is run, like... competently, and doesn't need them.  They were technically eligible for everything GM applied for in terms of emergency loans and conditional handouts and shiat and more, by virtue of being more American than GM is ( to simplify, you can only apply for subsidies for parts made and work done in the US by US workers, which is a higher percentage for Toyota).  Ford comes in second place on this one, too, needing to take government handouts a couple of times but limiting their size and paying them back pretty quickly.

sex_and_drugs_for_ian: There'd have been less of an environmental impact if those "clunkers" had been left in the fleet until they finally broke down of their own accord.

It took a shiat ton of energy to replace every one of those perfectly functional machines.


This is objectively not true.  Light vehicle production crashed during the, well, financial crash that CFC was part of the bailout for, all the 'increased production' for replacing all those cars was well below the norm to a hilariously enormous degree, you're not "this is an arguable point and I disagree" levels of wrong, you're literally imagining numbers that are almost two orders of magnitude in the wrong direction.

I mean, unless you're imagining a situation where the government let the auto industry crash entirely, and we all simultaneously achieved enlightenment that put us beyond all physical needs and went to meditate on mountains so no one ever started making cars again as the alternative scenario to the bailout, here... which in that case, okay, but that's one motherfarker of a counterfactual.

Contained and filtered pollution at a plant is also significantly smaller in footprint than uncontained emissions from moving vehicles, even if you ignore that in most cases the expected difference in emissions over the vehicle's remaining lifetime exceeded manufacturing impact outright.

// I'm honestly not the most enormous fan of this program either because they kinda picked the most awkward and inefficient of the several proposals for handling these two issues (fleet mileage and the auto industry taking a body blow).  But you guys believe some flat-earth level shiat about this for some farking reason.  Things can just not have worked as effectively as we'd have liked sometimes, everything you don't like doesn't have to be the goddamned deep state brainwashing the illuminati into faking the moon landing.
 
2022-08-06 2:10:04 AM  

mrmopar5287: Most traded in vehicle: Ford Explorer
Most purchased vehicle: Toyota Corolla

Congress subsidized the purchase of Japanese cars by giving trade-in credits for American SUVs.


Yeah, but Toyota has had factories in the USA forever now.
 
2022-08-06 2:13:47 AM  

mrmopar5287: Most traded in vehicle: Ford Explorer
Most purchased vehicle: Toyota Corolla

Congress subsidized the purchase of Japanese cars by giving trade-in credits for American SUVs.


It's not Toyota's fault they can make good cars while American companies only make shiatty, gas guzzling SUVs. Especially not their fault they can make good cars in US factories while US companies can't even make profits on cars made in Mexico.

They had decades of chances, multiple government bailouts, and still couldn't make cars people would buy over Toyotas. And honestly, they almost never tried and when they did (Saturn) the ideas were killed by the next hotshot dumbass CEO.
 
2022-08-06 7:04:41 AM  

Izunbacol: Realms of the Colon: I haven't dug through the list but my 1994 forest green Grand Cherokee Limited is somewhere on it. Best tank I ever got was 19 mpg going 65 on the highway (had the 5.2 liter) and once got 10.8 in the dead of winter.

Traded it in for a 2009 Fit Sport and more than doubled my gas mileage and got the car for $14k new., only selling that last year still for $5k so a rather low cost of ownership overall.

But man, that Cherokee started every time (I have only lived in MN or WI) and had the absolute most comfortable front seats I've ever sat in. And only had to change oil in nearly 5 years, nothing else. Unfortunately seemingly every Jeep since about 2000 is quite unreliable but apparently the mid '90s V8's were tough.

The seats in the XJ Cherokees were amazing. I believe there were sourced from Renault. They had a function (at least on the ones with manual sears) where you could "pivot" the seat. It was almost like a height adjustment, but the entire seat rotated like a scoop.

Also had the wonderful 80's nut-cooler vent.

/parents had XJS through my childhood after the sent the POS Buick wagon packing.
//learned to drive in a 94 XJ
///that 4.0L I-6 was a beast.


Had a 97 Grand Cherokee with the 4.0 liter straight six. Amazing amount of power for the size of the engine. Had it until the ex wife totalled it. I miss the car, ex-wife not so much.
 
2022-08-06 8:56:52 AM  
I had a car that was eligible (1985 Buick LeSabre), but I was not comfortable taking on a car note at the time.

I made the right decision.
 
2022-08-06 10:47:57 AM  

mrmopar5287: Indeed, mine is. Look for a 1988 Dodge D-150 pickup.

I had parked the truck over a year earlier because gasoline was $4 a gallon and with a 50-gallon tank I never had $200 to fill it up just to drive around getting about 10 mpg. That, and it had sprung a transmission leak that I didn't want to fix.

When C4C came around, I revived the truck. Tires were aired up, the rear brake lines had rotted so the pedal was really soft with just the front brakes, and it took a jump start and lots of starter fluid just to get it cranked over and running. I poured two gallons of ATF into the dipstick tube to make sure the transmission was totally overfilled and I drove it across town to the Hyundai dealership, trailing a constant stream of AFT on the pavement the entire way. I made sure the salesman saw me drive the vehicle onto the lot (the vehicles traded in had to be "running") when I parked it out back for destruction.

That best got me $4,500 off a Hyundai Accent. With a MSRP of $9,970, that was a 45% discount on a 3-door hatchback.


That's a shame; the pickup would be worth more now.
 
2022-08-06 10:56:49 AM  

LoneVVolf: That's a shame; the pickup would be worth more now.


Probably. The wheel wells of the bed had total rust issues but the frame was solid, zero rust on the doors or cab or anywhere on the front of the truck. The engine was the LA-318 with a 2-barrel carb and I had replaced the carb because the old one had problems. There was some sort of electric overdrive on the 3-speed automatic transmission that didn't work with the new carb so I wired up a switch in the cab that could lock on the overdrive once you were in 3rd gear - you had to remember to turn the switch off when you slowed down from highway speeds because the transmission would remain locked in 3rd gear and the truck would lug down low and stall if you didn't manually disengage the overdrive
 
2022-08-06 12:28:47 PM  
Egad, my Nissan Hardbody is there. Not the actual vehicle, that's in the driveway.

Hardbody? No     Incredible engine?  Yes
 
2022-08-07 2:42:04 PM  

Red Shirt Blues: No, but looking at the picture some of those pickups are worth a fortune right now.


The early 90's Chevy pickups were the best.   Tons of power and anybody with a socket set could keep them running forever.
 
2022-08-07 2:53:29 PM  
"I wanted to start by looking at what CFC destroyed the most."

Our soul.
 
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