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(The Desert Sun)   Somebody in the desert decided that they should be allowed should steal the Mississippi river so they can have golf courses. And they've been writing letters to multiple news outlets all summer   (desertsun.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Mississippi River, Army Corps of Engineers, old pumps, Lake Powell, California Aqueduct, Southwest's water problem, Los Angeles, Colorado River  
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4092 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Aug 2022 at 1:32 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-08-01 8:53:25 AM  
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2022-08-01 9:04:27 AM  
Well that's dumb. You want to go up to Idaho and divert the couple of rivers and creeks that ultimately turn into the Missouri river instead. There's a fork where one branch ultimately becomes the Missouri and one the Columbia river basin. Take the Missouri and use it to green the desert. The upper midwest and the deep south don't deserve rivers.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-01 9:08:21 AM  
It's actually time for you to die in that desert sh*thole you chose for yourself.

Enjoy!

/It'll be a dry death.
//I'm mostly kidding, but how about try other means like conserving first? Banning golf courses, lawns, car washes, etc...
 
2022-08-01 9:08:49 AM  
Idiots.
 
2022-08-01 9:23:50 AM  
Haven't there been multiple studies already done on this, with even the most optimistic ones calling it unrealistic?
 
2022-08-01 9:25:14 AM  

Outshined_One: Haven't there been multiple studies already done on this, with even the most optimistic ones calling it unrealistic?


Yes, but it's fun to fantasize about depriving the south of their river.
 
2022-08-01 9:34:50 AM  

Outshined_One: Haven't there been multiple studies already done on this, with even the most optimistic ones calling it unrealistic?


It doesn't even matter if it's realistic.  The entire concept is climate denialism writ large.
 
2022-08-01 10:52:48 AM  

NewportBarGuy: It's actually time for you to die in that desert sh*thole you chose for yourself.

Enjoy!

/It'll be a dry death.
//I'm mostly kidding, but how about try other means like conserving first? Banning golf courses, lawns, car washes, etc...


Phoenix has lawn restrictions but they allow pools and golf courses to exist. plus the heat island effect from all the concrete has changed the summer monsoon season 

It was all the assholes who moved there
 
2022-08-01 11:08:38 AM  

Outshined_One: Haven't there been multiple studies already done on this, with even the most optimistic ones calling it unrealistic?


Yup.
 
2022-08-01 12:46:26 PM  
"Let's pump water uphill!"
 
2022-08-01 1:16:26 PM  
Climate change is happening kids, and the west coast running out of water is just one of them consequences we've been warning people about since forever.
At this point, the effects of climate change are probably irreversible. At a minimum they're not going to be fixed overnight. Some areas will have to adjust to much lower water levels and harsher climate effects. It's too late now to stop it
 
WGJ [TotalFark]
2022-08-01 1:27:52 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-01 1:31:12 PM  
Sorry, allowing the diversion of "only 5%" would be a slippery slope and soon you'll want to take all the water, so no.
 
2022-08-01 1:36:46 PM  
pbs.twimg.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-01 1:37:23 PM  
Can we just ship them our piss instead?
 
2022-08-01 1:37:36 PM  
if y'all want the water, then just pay for it
 
2022-08-01 1:37:57 PM  
Is the writer actually this stupid?

Or is he just trolling for 'exposure'?
 
2022-08-01 1:38:11 PM  
I support the complete banning of golf. Furthermore, let's make all golf courses into affordable housing that can be easily biked to walked.
 
2022-08-01 1:38:13 PM  
Maybe go to where the water is instead of expecting the water to come to you?
 
2022-08-01 1:38:48 PM  
Then some Republican Senator from Louisiana could cut off the water when people object to his invading and bombing Massachusetts to set up a Second Confederacy.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-01 1:39:13 PM  

neongoats: Well that's dumb. You want to go up to Idaho and divert the couple of rivers and creeks that ultimately turn into the Missouri river instead. There's a fork where one branch ultimately becomes the Missouri and one the Columbia river basin. Take the Missouri and use it to green the desert. The upper midwest and the deep south don't deserve rivers.

[Fark user image 350x281]


Two Ocean Pass.   It's one creek that splits, for some reason, into two other small creeks, Pacific and Atlantic.   It is thought that that was how salmonids went from the western side of the divide into the Yellowstone system on the eastern side.  But....it is at 8100 feet or so.  It's on my bucket list.

mmarkmiller.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
2022-08-01 1:39:19 PM  

Hey Nurse!: Can we just ship them our piss instead?


Kinky!
 
2022-08-01 1:39:32 PM  

PreMortem: Sorry, allowing the diversion of "only 5%" would be a slippery slope and soon you'll want to take all the water, so no.


A slippery slope is exactly how such a diversion might start! Dam all the slopes, I say.
 
2022-08-01 1:40:21 PM  
Numerous letters (including mine of June 30) have commented recently on the possibility of moving water from the Mississippi River to the Colorado River at Lake Powell (Glen Canyon dam on the Utah/Colorado border) and then downstream to Lake Mead (Hoover Dam/Las Vegas) and on through Arizona and beyond. Some of these letters are supportive and some not. The whole point of suggesting this solution to the Southwest's water problem is to generate a public demand to the Army Corps of Engineers to investigate the feasibility of such a project.
I suggested diverting 250,000 gallons/second, which is only about 5% of the flow on the lower Mississippi south of the Old River Control Structure (ORCS) in Central Louisiana 300 miles above New Orleans.

The elevation of Lake Powell is 3,800 ft.  The elevation of Natchez, LA is 106 feet.  Keep in mind you have to get it over the continental divide.  The elevation of cities in the way like Taos, NM and Alamosa, CO is around 7,000 ft.

This is not happening.  It would cost less to pay you all to move.
 
2022-08-01 1:41:54 PM  
This idea brought to you by people that never had physics, science, or economics classes. And already think that their taxes are too high.
 
2022-08-01 1:42:57 PM  

Weaver95: Climate change is happening kids, and the west coast running out of water is just one of them consequences we've been warning people about since forever.
At this point, the effects of climate change are probably irreversible. At a minimum they're not going to be fixed overnight. Some areas will have to adjust to much lower water levels and harsher climate effects. It's too late now to stop it


In 50 years where is the weather going to be dialed in and sweet the way it is now in San Diego?
 
2022-08-01 1:43:35 PM  

Thor God of Thunder: Maybe go to where the water is instead of expecting the water to come to you?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-08-01 1:47:28 PM  
Rapmaster2000:

The elevation of Lake Powell is 3,800 ft.  The elevation of Natchez, LA is 106 feet.  Keep in mind you have to get it over the continental divide.  The elevation of cities in the way like Taos, NM and Alamosa, CO is around 7,000 ft.

This is not happening.  It would cost less to pay you all to move.


But that's for the Corp of Engineers to work out. Afterall, they've built pumps before, and highways. So it's no big deal, right?
 
2022-08-01 1:47:32 PM  

Dewey Fidalgo: neongoats: Well that's dumb. You want to go up to Idaho and divert the couple of rivers and creeks that ultimately turn into the Missouri river instead. There's a fork where one branch ultimately becomes the Missouri and one the Columbia river basin. Take the Missouri and use it to green the desert. The upper midwest and the deep south don't deserve rivers.

[Fark user image 350x281]

Two Ocean Pass.   It's one creek that splits, for some reason, into two other small creeks, Pacific and Atlantic.   It is thought that that was how salmonids went from the western side of the divide into the Yellowstone system on the eastern side.  But....it is at 8100 feet or so.  It's on my bucket list.

[mmarkmiller.files.wordpress.com image 500x372]


Yeah, I watched a video on it a few days ago - pretty interesting.

Engineering-wise this seems a whole lot more feasible - you do some geo-engineering here and divert all that water west - instead of trying to farking pump the mississippi up and over the mountains you just need to build a long distance aqueduct system down the western slope of the rockies.

Still crazy but fun to imagine.
 
2022-08-01 1:47:40 PM  
Or you could move to where the f*cking water is.
 
2022-08-01 1:49:16 PM  
Too bad there isn't a huge source of water that could be desalinated nearby.  Then, take the salt and sell it to McDonalds.  They use a lot of it.

Or, hee hee.  'Offer' to sell it to the Midwest for their roads every winter but lament that there's "no economical way of moving it."
 
2022-08-01 1:49:26 PM  
Lake Mead is what, about 2 years from hitting deadpool (and not the fun version)...?
The time to address the water shortage was 5 years back...it's too late to fix the problem now.
 
2022-08-01 1:50:30 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Numerous letters (including mine of June 30) have commented recently on the possibility of moving water from the Mississippi River to the Colorado River at Lake Powell (Glen Canyon dam on the Utah/Colorado border) and then downstream to Lake Mead (Hoover Dam/Las Vegas) and on through Arizona and beyond. Some of these letters are supportive and some not. The whole point of suggesting this solution to the Southwest's water problem is to generate a public demand to the Army Corps of Engineers to investigate the feasibility of such a project.
I suggested diverting 250,000 gallons/second, which is only about 5% of the flow on the lower Mississippi south of the Old River Control Structure (ORCS) in Central Louisiana 300 miles above New Orleans.

The elevation of Lake Powell is 3,800 ft.  The elevation of Natchez, LA is 106 feet.  Keep in mind you have to get it over the continental divide.  The elevation of cities in the way like Taos, NM and Alamosa, CO is around 7,000 ft.

This is not happening.  It would cost less to pay you all to move.


"Kook from Berkeley (basically) with an AOL email address sends crackpot idea to niche newspaper."

That's about all you need to know.

/San Leandro is Berkeley but more boring
 
2022-08-01 1:50:56 PM  
I had to say this before about the Bundys, to people who said they were great Americans who were living a rancher's life, producing beef that benefited everyone: "I hate to break it to you, but America wasn't built by people trying to raise cattle in the desert." (And not paying the federal government for use of public land.)

Our desert, which makes up 1/4 to 1/3 of the USA, is ecologically important. And it is not a fit place to live or engage in agriculture or ranching, because it drains the resources of the rest of the country when it is tried.

And I have met people who say we can have more immigration because we have millions of square miles of empty land (which is what they call the desert). It's not empty land, it's occupied to the limit by species that are adapted to live there, and humans are not so adapted, except in very limited numbers. Like the Piutes, Navahos and other Native American tribes who learned to survive on the land without destroying it.

These people should get no water from elsewhere because they cannot sustain their existence without more and more water. If they use water collectors (like on Dune or in Star Wars) then they can support a limited population of people.
 
2022-08-01 1:51:24 PM  

Weaver95: Climate change is happening kids, and the west coast running out of water is just one of them consequences we've been warning people about since forever.
At this point, the effects of climate change are probably irreversible. At a minimum they're not going to be fixed overnight. Some areas will have to adjust to much lower water levels and harsher climate effects. It's too late now to stop it


I'm not sure what your argument is, though - is this the 'lie back and enjoy it' argument?

Having everyone in areas vulnerable to serious impacts of climate change simply move is kind of not a serious suggestion - you're talking about basically all of Southern California, AZ, probably parts of NM, then also a huge chunk of Louisiana/MS/AL, probably FL too (and that's not even touching places like KY which obviously are suffering right now)... where are those people going to move to?

I mean let's frame it like that - what's cheaper, piping water to the southwest where otherwise the weather is manageable, or building a crazy enough levee system / etc to protect people living in LA/MS/AL/FL/TX that are going to get slammed by increasingly large storm surges and cat 4/5 hurricanes with 8 inches of rain? Suddenly the former doesn't sound that terrible
 
2022-08-01 1:53:25 PM  
The Colorado River Aqueduct, which runs 242 mi (389 km) from Lake Havasu (along the AZ/CA state line) to Riverside County, has to suspend pumping on occasion because high energy prices make it unprofitable.  There are questions as to if it'll be sustainable in the long run.

Pumping Mississippi water to eastern Colorado or western Texas, which is a significantly longer distance and greater rise, would be difficult enough.  To push it over the continental divide, even with tunnels, would require an astronomical amount if power and infrastructure.

It isn't going to happen.  Stop growing alfalfa, corn, and hay in the farking desert.
 
2022-08-01 1:53:34 PM  

noitsnot: Rapmaster2000: Numerous letters (including mine of June 30) have commented recently on the possibility of moving water from the Mississippi River to the Colorado River at Lake Powell (Glen Canyon dam on the Utah/Colorado border) and then downstream to Lake Mead (Hoover Dam/Las Vegas) and on through Arizona and beyond. Some of these letters are supportive and some not. The whole point of suggesting this solution to the Southwest's water problem is to generate a public demand to the Army Corps of Engineers to investigate the feasibility of such a project.
I suggested diverting 250,000 gallons/second, which is only about 5% of the flow on the lower Mississippi south of the Old River Control Structure (ORCS) in Central Louisiana 300 miles above New Orleans.

The elevation of Lake Powell is 3,800 ft.  The elevation of Natchez, LA is 106 feet.  Keep in mind you have to get it over the continental divide.  The elevation of cities in the way like Taos, NM and Alamosa, CO is around 7,000 ft.

This is not happening.  It would cost less to pay you all to move.

"Kook from Berkeley (basically) with an AOL email address sends crackpot idea to niche newspaper."

That's about all you need to know.

/San Leandro is Berkeley but more boring


Oops I was thinking of Albany.  Never mind.
 
2022-08-01 1:54:42 PM  

mikaloyd: Weaver95: Climate change is happening kids, and the west coast running out of water is just one of them consequences we've been warning people about since forever.
At this point, the effects of climate change are probably irreversible. At a minimum they're not going to be fixed overnight. Some areas will have to adjust to much lower water levels and harsher climate effects. It's too late now to stop it

In 50 years where is the weather going to be dialed in and sweet the way it is now in San Diego?


Looks to me like you want to move north:

https://www.vox.com/a/weather-climate-change-us-cities-global-warming
 
2022-08-01 1:56:35 PM  

wingedkat: mikaloyd: Weaver95: Climate change is happening kids, and the west coast running out of water is just one of them consequences we've been warning people about since forever.
At this point, the effects of climate change are probably irreversible. At a minimum they're not going to be fixed overnight. Some areas will have to adjust to much lower water levels and harsher climate effects. It's too late now to stop it

In 50 years where is the weather going to be dialed in and sweet the way it is now in San Diego?

Looks to me like you want to move north:

https://www.vox.com/a/weather-climate-change-us-cities-global-warming


I need to move north too.  MN looks good.  Can't stand soggy slushy winters, and it's already getting soggy around here.  Although now that I'm getting old and can't do as much of the fun stuff outside, maybe it won't matter as much.
 
2022-08-01 1:56:58 PM  

KeithLM: Rapmaster2000:

The elevation of Lake Powell is 3,800 ft.  The elevation of Natchez, LA is 106 feet.  Keep in mind you have to get it over the continental divide.  The elevation of cities in the way like Taos, NM and Alamosa, CO is around 7,000 ft.

This is not happening.  It would cost less to pay you all to move.

But that's for the Corp of Engineers to work out. Afterall, they've built pumps before, and highways. So it's no big deal, right?


Keep in mind, he expects everyone else to pay for it.  There's zero benefit for a citizen of say Illinois or North Carolina to provide him with this benefit.  It costs them money for something that is unnecessary.  Phoenix is unnecessarily large.  It has 3.2 million people.  It had 374,000 in 1950.  It can be that small again.  That would be fine.

Phoenix metro has a GDP per-capita of $44,534.  This puts it behind St. Cloud, MN but ahead of Providence, RI.  For such a large city, it's very unproductive.  What that's telling you is that it's packed with old people who are wiling away their later years.  They could just as well do that in The Villages.  Moving them all to Florida would cost less than building an aqueduct from Louisiana to Phoenix complete with a massive power infrastructure to lift all that water.
 
2022-08-01 1:57:11 PM  
The low spot on the continental divide is ONLY 4,000 feet. Can't we just build a 4,001 foot dam?!?!?

Then we wouldn't need to PUMP the water.

Engineers overcomplicate everything.
 
2022-08-01 1:57:13 PM  

Hey Nurse!: Can we just ship them our piss instead?


Colorado already has Coors.
 
2022-08-01 1:58:37 PM  

Weaver95: Climate change is happening kids, and the west coast running out of water is just one of them consequences we've been warning people about since forever.
At this point, the effects of climate change are probably irreversible. At a minimum they're not going to be fixed overnight. Some areas will have to adjust to much lower water levels and harsher climate effects. It's too late now to stop it


Climate change totally could be reversed.  Only problems are that we would have to completely stop using fossil fuels overnight, wait about 1,000 years and everyone would probably be dead before it happened
 
2022-08-01 1:59:33 PM  

neongoats: Dewey Fidalgo: neongoats: Well that's dumb. You want to go up to Idaho and divert the couple of rivers and creeks that ultimately turn into the Missouri river instead. There's a fork where one branch ultimately becomes the Missouri and one the Columbia river basin. Take the Missouri and use it to green the desert. The upper midwest and the deep south don't deserve rivers.

[Fark user image 350x281]

Two Ocean Pass.   It's one creek that splits, for some reason, into two other small creeks, Pacific and Atlantic.   It is thought that that was how salmonids went from the western side of the divide into the Yellowstone system on the eastern side.  But....it is at 8100 feet or so.  It's on my bucket list.

[mmarkmiller.files.wordpress.com image 500x372]

Yeah, I watched a video on it a few days ago - pretty interesting.

Engineering-wise this seems a whole lot more feasible - you do some geo-engineering here and divert all that water west - instead of trying to farking pump the mississippi up and over the mountains you just need to build a long distance aqueduct system down the western slope of the rockies.

Still crazy but fun to imagine.


Nah.   Really, it's a couple of small creeks.   The mighty Columbia/Snake rivers don't just pop up full force there.
It's a very dumb idea.

Also, it's a pretty long hike to even get there.

Also, we have enough water issues in the greater PNW all our own.
 
2022-08-01 1:59:51 PM  
Start pumping water away from the Great Lakes and y'all getting a big mouthful of Canadian liberty.

You want water? Open wide and prepare to be flushed.

We will moose you right up the arse 'till you scream like loons and beg for the sweet release of beaver jaws on your femoral artery.
 
2022-08-01 2:00:41 PM  
Not feasible.  Invasive species from Mississippi getting into Colorado drainage.  LOTS of land lost due to eminent domain seizures.  Huge cost to build, and bigger cost to maintain, with the people who benefit not paying for it.

Author includes an outdated argument that rests upon the thesis that any water not used flows waste to the sea.  That's like saying any air you don't personally breathe is wasted.  The reduced/dammed water flows on the Mississippi are what have created flooding by eroding 70% of the Mississippi Delta, so this would increase that flooding and damage, and that's a direct link that could easily be proven for damages in court.  It also ignores that a minimum flow is necessary to prevent death of wildlife and destruction/collapse of environment (such as what's happening to Great Salt Lake right now).
 
2022-08-01 2:00:49 PM  
First, you can tell when someone knows something about water reserves when they use gallons per second, rather than cubic feet/sec. Nobody uses gallons per second.

Secondly, good luck getting a constant flow out of the Mississippi, which easily changes water level 20 feet a year, and it's not impossible to see water levels at 40 feet above mean water...or levels below mean water. So those intakes will be interesting to build

Thirdly, yeah, good luck with those pumps. Be a shame if someone were to break them.

Fourthly,  yes. We would break them. Repeatedly.
 
2022-08-01 2:01:54 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Banning golf courses, lawns, car washes, etc...


Yes. No effort to divert water should be considered until all of those have been eliminated and permanently banned. Swimming pools too.
 
2022-08-01 2:02:09 PM  
external-content.duckduckgo.comView Full Size

Forget it Jake it's some old guy who's writing from an AOL account
 
2022-08-01 2:06:38 PM  

KY Jerry: if y'all want the water, then just pay for it


No.  There are millions of retirees on fixed incomes who paid into the system all our lives, who deserve lush fairways and lawns. This is a public good, and the costs should be borne by everyone.

It's time for younger generations to step up and contribute instead of leeching off of us.

A tax on avocado toast and selfies would cover the cost, I bet.

/sarcasm tax would, too
 
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