Skip to content
Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Some Science Guy)   Alzheimer's drugs that perform well in animal testing are failing in human trials because the data in the 2006 research upon which those drugs are based was fabricated   (biotechniques.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Scientific method, Research, Science, Alzheimer's disease, neuroscientist Matthew Schrag, development of an anti-Aβ plaque drug, validity of a research paper, Schrag's own research  
•       •       •

916 clicks; posted to STEM » on 23 Jul 2022 at 3:50 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



41 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-07-23 10:01:25 AM  
Wow. Imagine putting years of your life into an Alzheimer's drug and thinking you've found something you can help... maybe even help someone you know... most of us know someone touched by the disease.

I'd be inspired to physical violence against those involved.
 
2022-07-23 10:02:12 AM  

Metastatic Capricorn: something that can help


FTFM
 
2022-07-23 11:05:30 AM  
Not good.
 
2022-07-23 11:31:34 AM  
You can blame it on this paper or you can look and any one of the DOZENS (hundreds?) of human trials that have 100% failed.


The one thing you can be sure of with Alzheimer's is that it is not caused by Amyloid Beta plaques.  That pharma companies have dumped so much time/money/effort into this is insane. Lilly in particular is just headshaking.

Had Enough, Eh? Come Back and Take What's Coming to You!
 
2022-07-23 11:49:11 AM  

IgG4: You can blame it on this paper or you can look and any one of the DOZENS (hundreds?) of human trials that have 100% failed.


The one thing you can be sure of with Alzheimer's is that it is not caused by Amyloid Beta plaques.  That pharma companies have dumped so much time/money/effort into this is insane. Lilly in particular is just headshaking.


This. Some researchers have been raising the red flag for many years on the failure of the Amyloid plaques theory, but the mainstream of medical research somehow became entrenched on this theory, accusing anybody who questioned it of being a fringe nutjob and/or opposed to all Alzheimer's research. And all this despite the fact that we've known for years that (a) plaque is not present in all Alzheimer's patients and (b) plaque is present in some people without Alzheimer's. That alone ought to be the death knell for the theory that plaques are the proximate cause. Buy I guess wishful thinking and fear that the funding would dry up entirely if anybody stopped believing, plus the fact that careers and reputations had been built on it, just kept the industry going.

This is, I suspect, one of those cases where science advances one old, dead medical professor at a time.
 
2022-07-23 11:53:34 AM  
BTW, animal models for Alzheimer's are pretty useless. Although older animals can suffer cognitive disorders, there's nothing that I know of that is really Alzheimer's in other animals.

If researchers genetically engineer animals to get amyloid beta plaques, and then find drugs that treat the plaques, it's really not surprising that they don't treat Alzheimer's in humans, because amyloid beta plaques are not the cause of Alzheimer's.

Alzheimer's drug trial ends in failure: 'This one hurts' | CNN
 
2022-07-23 11:55:07 AM  
Was the company doing the testing owned by Elizabeth Holmes?
 
2022-07-23 11:56:11 AM  
Welp
There it is
A valid non"hey, they are fun" reason to own an AR
 
2022-07-23 1:12:35 PM  
Perfect use of the SAD tag, subs.
 
2022-07-23 1:56:11 PM  
Holy shiat.  It's like in Rise of the Planet of the Apes.  I hope they didn't test it on apes.
 
2022-07-23 3:54:41 PM  
Alzheimer's is caused by a virus. Herpes. I am not a doctor.
 
2022-07-23 4:05:14 PM  
I wouldn't worry about it. Most of my beliefs are based on fake crap I heard in 2006 and I'm doing just fine.
 
2022-07-23 4:13:10 PM  
How is it on stains?

external-content.duckduckgo.comView Full Size
 
2022-07-23 4:26:58 PM  
just go for a brain-free diet and watch out for prions
 
2022-07-23 4:30:16 PM  

IgG4: You can blame it on this paper


You can blame it on moonlight
 
2022-07-23 4:37:09 PM  
Wasted lives of patients who may have been treated with a successful drug.
Wasted money.
Wasted time.
Wasted careers of really smart people who spent years chasing nothing
Fark anyone who fudged data.
 
2022-07-23 5:28:54 PM  

PartTimeBuddha: IgG4: You can blame it on this paper

You can blame it on moonlight


Amazon Women on the Moon - Don Simmons End Credits.mp4
Youtube 5QPMctdFD4M
 
2022-07-23 5:33:29 PM  

HugeMistake: IgG4: You can blame it on this paper or you can look and any one of the DOZENS (hundreds?) of human trials that have 100% failed.


The one thing you can be sure of with Alzheimer's is that it is not caused by Amyloid Beta plaques.  That pharma companies have dumped so much time/money/effort into this is insane. Lilly in particular is just headshaking.

This. Some researchers have been raising the red flag for many years on the failure of the Amyloid plaques theory, but the mainstream of medical research somehow became entrenched on this theory, accusing anybody who questioned it of being a fringe nutjob and/or opposed to all Alzheimer's research. And all this despite the fact that we've known for years that (a) plaque is not present in all Alzheimer's patients and (b) plaque is present in some people without Alzheimer's. That alone ought to be the death knell for the theory that plaques are the proximate cause. Buy I guess wishful thinking and fear that the funding would dry up entirely if anybody stopped believing, plus the fact that careers and reputations had been built on it, just kept the industry going.

This is, I suspect, one of those cases where science advances one old, dead medical professor at a time.


There is such thing as an amyloid mafia that comes after you if you take a contrarian view
 
2022-07-23 5:42:52 PM  
Those dogs they tried it on STILL couldn't remember their grandpuppies names.
 
2022-07-23 5:58:28 PM  
A much more thorough article (that was redlit) from Science: Blots on a field)
 
2022-07-23 6:03:23 PM  

centrifugal bumblepuppy: HugeMistake: IgG4: You can blame it on this paper or you can look and any one of the DOZENS (hundreds?) of human trials that have 100% failed.


The one thing you can be sure of with Alzheimer's is that it is not caused by Amyloid Beta plaques.  That pharma companies have dumped so much time/money/effort into this is insane. Lilly in particular is just headshaking.

This. Some researchers have been raising the red flag for many years on the failure of the Amyloid plaques theory, but the mainstream of medical research somehow became entrenched on this theory, accusing anybody who questioned it of being a fringe nutjob and/or opposed to all Alzheimer's research. And all this despite the fact that we've known for years that (a) plaque is not present in all Alzheimer's patients and (b) plaque is present in some people without Alzheimer's. That alone ought to be the death knell for the theory that plaques are the proximate cause. Buy I guess wishful thinking and fear that the funding would dry up entirely if anybody stopped believing, plus the fact that careers and reputations had been built on it, just kept the industry going.

This is, I suspect, one of those cases where science advances one old, dead medical professor at a time.

There is such thing as an amyloid mafia that comes after you if you take a contrarian view


That herpes simplex I may cause Alzheimer's is a frightening thought. It spread widely and so fast in my freshman year that one morning a professor stopped mid-sentence to comment "My God, you all have the exact same cold sore on your mouths."
 
2022-07-23 6:13:40 PM  
The Caretaker - Everywhere At The End Of Time - Stages 1-6 (Complete)
Youtube wJWksPWDKOc
 
2022-07-23 6:16:01 PM  
what were we talking about?
 
2022-07-23 6:18:19 PM  

PartTimeBuddha: IgG4: You can blame it on this paper

You can blame it on moonlight


You can blame it on the bossa nova
 
2022-07-23 6:56:36 PM  
If it can be shown that Lesné faked the data, I hope every institution and company misled by it sues him into oblivion.
 
2022-07-23 6:56:52 PM  

lilbjorn: PartTimeBuddha: IgG4: You can blame it on this paper

You can blame it on moonlight

You can blame it on the bossa nova


I blame it on the passa double

also the boogie
 
2022-07-23 7:00:05 PM  
Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?

upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
2022-07-23 7:06:29 PM  
14 years of misdirection of an entire field of medical study is just... god damn. I want to be no one involved in that at all. Not a patient given false hope, not a relative of such a patient who shared that hope, not a researcher dedicated to chasing a red herring, and sure as fark not anyone within a hundred miles of Cassava Sciences when all those people and their lawyers come knocking.
 
2022-07-23 7:14:14 PM  
Back to aluminum
 
2022-07-23 8:25:09 PM  

IgG4: You can blame it on this paper or you can look and any one of the DOZENS (hundreds?) of human trials that have 100% failed.


The one thing you can be sure of with Alzheimer's is that it is not caused by Amyloid Beta plaques.  That pharma companies have dumped so much time/money/effort into this is insane. Lilly in particular is just headshaking.

Had Enough, Eh? Come Back and Take What's Coming to You!


True, as demonstrated by drugs that remove the plaques and the patients do not improve. Possibly the plaques are a side effect, possibly once they damage the nerves there's no going back.  Maybe preventing the plaques in the first place would help, but that requires an accurate test that can provide a 10+ year window before symptoms appear.
 
2022-07-23 9:38:16 PM  

HugeMistake: BTW, animal models for Alzheimer's are pretty useless. Although older animals can suffer cognitive disorders, there's nothing that I know of that is really Alzheimer's in other animals.

If researchers genetically engineer animals to get amyloid beta plaques, and then find drugs that treat the plaques, it's really not surprising that they don't treat Alzheimer's in humans, because amyloid beta plaques are not the cause of Alzheimer's.

Alzheimer's drug trial ends in failure: 'This one hurts' | CNN


The issue is that if you don't include something about dementia (and usually specifically Alzheimer's) you don't get funding to do research on how the brain works. So every researcher just shoehorns it in and the funding shows up, they play around with whatever they are really investigating and then write up about how it didn't affect plaque buildup, which was basically the one physical thing that has been identified as an Alzheimer's marker.

Without having a marker like that for Alzheimer's, very little basic research on the brain is going to be funded. Grant committees shut off that spigot years ago to focus on Alzheimer's. There have been several articles about this over the years, not sure which ones made it to Fark though.
 
2022-07-23 10:22:52 PM  
As long as the checks clear, they can work around it
 
2022-07-23 10:49:42 PM  
Treat it like a reality show.

Lock up all the CEOs of Pharma companies that took the money.  Give the key to some guy with Alzheimers and tell him to unlock the cage.

The outcome will depend on finding a cure before either the CEOs  or keyholder dies.

The Pharma companies will train dogs from both the control group and the study group to pick locks.
 
2022-07-23 11:06:46 PM  
In my younger days I spent a lot of time in biotech developing immunodiagnostics for detecting various disease states.  My immediate supervisor worked extensively on creating monoclonal antibodies targeting amyloid beta assays for years.  Her assays could never reliablely distinguish Alzheimer's samples from clinical normals. She is likely flipping out at this news.
 
2022-07-23 11:43:04 PM  

PartTimeBuddha: lilbjorn: PartTimeBuddha: IgG4: You can blame it on this paper

You can blame it on moonlight

You can blame it on the bossa nova

I blame it on the passa double

also the boogie


Blame it on the rain
 
2022-07-24 2:00:21 AM  
When a researcher finds something important it's imperative that someone try and see if they can replicate that result.

/Sounds like everyone just ran with it because it sounded good.
 
2022-07-24 4:55:56 AM  

AlgaeRancher: When a researcher finds something important it's imperative that someone try and see if they can replicate that result.


Like the Pons Fleischmann cold fusion?  I had a friend working on a PhD in physics and he wanted to duplicate that experiment since he had most of the equipment but needed a power supply which he got me to build.  It was sitting on my lab bench putting out more power than it took in but I didn't even have the extra magic cold fusion bits.  It turns out it was inductively coupled to another power supply nearby.  That didn't even warrant a simple paper saying "we tried, we failed, we found out induction still works" which would have stopped lots of people wasting lots of time and money duplicating the experiment or at least give them something else to check when they thought it worked.

Universities need a better way to encourage negative papers.  If I had Bill Gates type money, I would set up a publishing house for failed projects and have a monthly lottery to encourage universities to participate.
 
2022-07-24 8:27:46 AM  

Bruscar: centrifugal bumblepuppy: HugeMistake: IgG4: You can blame it on this paper or you can look and any one of the DOZENS (hundreds?) of human trials that have 100% failed.


The one thing you can be sure of with Alzheimer's is that it is not caused by Amyloid Beta plaques.  That pharma companies have dumped so much time/money/effort into this is insane. Lilly in particular is just headshaking.

This. Some researchers have been raising the red flag for many years on the failure of the Amyloid plaques theory, but the mainstream of medical research somehow became entrenched on this theory, accusing anybody who questioned it of being a fringe nutjob and/or opposed to all Alzheimer's research. And all this despite the fact that we've known for years that (a) plaque is not present in all Alzheimer's patients and (b) plaque is present in some people without Alzheimer's. That alone ought to be the death knell for the theory that plaques are the proximate cause. Buy I guess wishful thinking and fear that the funding would dry up entirely if anybody stopped believing, plus the fact that careers and reputations had been built on it, just kept the industry going.

This is, I suspect, one of those cases where science advances one old, dead medical professor at a time.

There is such thing as an amyloid mafia that comes after you if you take a contrarian view

That herpes simplex I may cause Alzheimer's is a frightening thought. It spread widely and so fast in my freshman year that one morning a professor stopped mid-sentence to comment "My God, you all have the exact same cold sore on your mouths."


That is interesting. If it was responsible it would take HSV-1 from a "no big deal, like 70% of people have it, just use the cream on a cold sore" to "OMG STAY AWAY NO TOUCHING! GET BACK TO YOUR PLAGUE COLONY!" pretty quickly.

It makes sense though. Something is destroying brain cells. Herpes viruses live and replicate in the nervous system. Maybe the virus has mutated to migrate from extremities to the brain. I mean at this point it looks like it's that or prions like with CJD/mad cow disease.
 
2022-07-24 8:55:19 AM  

Priapetic: PartTimeBuddha: lilbjorn: PartTimeBuddha: IgG4: You can blame it on this paper

You can blame it on moonlight

You can blame it on the bossa nova

I blame it on the passa double

also the boogie

Blame it on the rain


Blame it on Rio
 
2022-07-24 10:16:36 AM  
Anecdotes aren't evidence, but Aricept/donepezil turned my wife's grandfather from a whispering guy who could barely shuffle from one room to another, and whose handshake was light as a feather into a guy with a strong voice, a handshake like a bear, and obvious control over his movements. For a couple of months. It was amazing to see. It seems like there's at least a place to start.
 
2022-07-25 2:01:03 AM  

AlgaeRancher: When a researcher finds something important it's imperative that someone try and see if they can replicate that result.

/Sounds like everyone just ran with it because it sounded good.


Aren't scientific  papers typically peer reviewed and duplicated?  I thought papers like this were considered suspect until two or three independent groups had mimicked and confirmed the results.
 
Displayed 41 of 41 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking




On Twitter


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.