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(CNN)   People are using BNPL as invisible credit cards, so all you credit bureaus can go FICO yourselves   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Credit card, Credit, Credit history, Money, Payment, Credit score, Credit rating, types of services  
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1679 clicks; posted to Business » on 07 Jul 2022 at 8:55 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



49 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-07-07 9:06:53 AM  
I've only used BNPL for things I have money for, but just don't want to buy all at once. It's no different than a credit card, except you can have no/little interest. If you treat a credit card badly, you'll treat BNPL badly. Plenty of reasonable uses for it.

Current example: I use Mint Mobile for my cell service, and I buy a yearly plan because under that, my service is only 30$ a month for unlimited use. The yearly plan costs about 400$ after fees and taxes - a bargain, but a big hit at once. So I use BNPL through my AMEX (which they call PlanIt)- it's supposed to be paid off in 6 payments, I'll pay it off in two, owe next to nothing - Amex's scheme you pay a smaller set fee rather than floating a balance, I think my one fee I'll take on this will be like 4$ - and not have to think about it for another year.
 
2022-07-07 9:12:00 AM  
Stop being poor.

Problem solved.

/Not really.
 
2022-07-07 9:49:34 AM  
Companies are really quick in learning how to exploit economic crises
 
2022-07-07 10:02:45 AM  
Subby sounds catastrophically bad with money.
 
2022-07-07 10:07:21 AM  
The lady in the story is headed for bad times. What makes her think she can afford the $400 grocery bill in the next month or two when she can't afford it now? Is she hoping the .25 cent raise goes thru or is she praying to God for help? Plus, she will be paying for last months groceries while buying this months groceries. It's not stretching the budget, it's over extending yourself.

And on the other hand, when you are trying to feed four people and don't have cash to buy food, what is she suppose to do?
 
2022-07-07 10:16:14 AM  

question_dj: Companies are really quick in learning how to exploit economic crises


Scenarios like this are more likely to happen when times are good, actually. People feeling good about the economy will make more purchases and use readily available, attractive no/low fee financing options.

The problem is they can juuuust keep up with payments, and fall behind if they're impacted by a downturn.
 
2022-07-07 10:26:51 AM  
Buried lede: the maijor finance players don't want this to happen because it's impacting their own bottom line.
This is late-stage capitalism chillun, aint nothin new under the sun.
 
2022-07-07 11:03:28 AM  

CaptSS: The lady in the story is headed for bad times. What makes her think she can afford the $400 grocery bill in the next month or two when she can't afford it now? Is she hoping the .25 cent raise goes thru or is she praying to God for help? Plus, she will be paying for last months groceries while buying this months groceries. It's not stretching the budget, it's over extending yourself.

And on the other hand, when you are trying to feed four people and don't have cash to buy food, what is she suppose to do?


It says she's a single mother with three kids. She is probably eligible for food stamps. It doesn't say if she is on SNAP.
 
2022-07-07 11:19:51 AM  
Speed running into payday loan purgatory.
 
2022-07-07 11:23:00 AM  

dustman81: CaptSS: The lady in the story is headed for bad times. What makes her think she can afford the $400 grocery bill in the next month or two when she can't afford it now? Is she hoping the .25 cent raise goes thru or is she praying to God for help? Plus, she will be paying for last months groceries while buying this months groceries. It's not stretching the budget, it's over extending yourself.

And on the other hand, when you are trying to feed four people and don't have cash to buy food, what is she suppose to do?

It says she's a single mother with three kids. She is probably eligible for food stamps. It doesn't say if she is on SNAP.


I worked at a grocery store in a poor neighborhood over 20 years ago.  At the beginning of the month it would look like a picture from the Soviet Union, long lines, everybody paying in EBT... by the end of the month there weren't many customers and they were paying in cash.

I doubt the benefits have kept up with inflation, particularly not over the last years.  It said she had a 90 minute commute, so there's a good chance she's above the pay range to even receive the benefits and it's actually gas that's eating up all her money.

The US is a terrible nation to be poor in... we don't even recognize most of the poor people as poor.
 
2022-07-07 11:30:04 AM  
So the BNPLs charge a transaction fee (like a CC) but don't charge interest on their installments?  That sounds like an old-school charge-card.

Sooo... what happens when someone doesn't pay?  OG Amex-style charge-cards reduced their default risk by applying strict credit score criteria to their users, normal credit-cards use a combination of credit-scoring and exorbitant interest rates to de-risk themselves, and secured cards are, well, secured.

If the BNPLs have just been depending on a good economy to keep defaults down they are in big trouble at some point.
 
2022-07-07 11:35:23 AM  

saintstryfe: I've only used BNPL for things I have money for, but just don't want to buy all at once. It's no different than a credit card, except you can have no/little interest. If you treat a credit card badly, you'll treat BNPL badly. Plenty of reasonable uses for it.

Current example: I use Mint Mobile for my cell service, and I buy a yearly plan because under that, my service is only 30$ a month for unlimited use. The yearly plan costs about 400$ after fees and taxes - a bargain, but a big hit at once. So I use BNPL through my AMEX (which they call PlanIt)- it's supposed to be paid off in 6 payments, I'll pay it off in two, owe next to nothing - Amex's scheme you pay a smaller set fee rather than floating a balance, I think my one fee I'll take on this will be like 4$ - and not have to think about it for another year.


This.

I have an Amazon card and use it to buy things from Amazon and then pay off the entire balance the next month. It gets me a % back to use on Amazon and I don't buy things I cannot pay off in full the next month. Same for my credit union's card that I used to use when traveling for work and would pay off expenses in full when I got reimbursed the next month.

Also, why the "interesting" tag instead of dumbass or facepalm?
 
2022-07-07 11:44:03 AM  

question_dj: Companies are really quick in learning how to exploit economic crises


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-07-07 11:45:20 AM  

valkore: question_dj: Companies are really quick in learning how to exploit economic crises

Scenarios like this are more likely to happen when times are good, actually. People feeling good about the economy will make more purchases and use readily available, attractive no/low fee financing options.

The problem is they can juuuust keep up with payments, and fall behind if they're impacted by a downturn.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-07-07 11:46:17 AM  

Stephen_Falken: Buried lede: the maijor finance players don't want this to happen because it's impacting their own bottom line.
This is late-stage capitalism chillun, aint nothin new under the sun.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-07-07 11:47:22 AM  

electricjebus: dustman81: CaptSS: The lady in the story is headed for bad times. What makes her think she can afford the $400 grocery bill in the next month or two when she can't afford it now? Is she hoping the .25 cent raise goes thru or is she praying to God for help? Plus, she will be paying for last months groceries while buying this months groceries. It's not stretching the budget, it's over extending yourself.

And on the other hand, when you are trying to feed four people and don't have cash to buy food, what is she suppose to do?

It says she's a single mother with three kids. She is probably eligible for food stamps. It doesn't say if she is on SNAP.

I worked at a grocery store in a poor neighborhood over 20 years ago.  At the beginning of the month it would look like a picture from the Soviet Union, long lines, everybody paying in EBT... by the end of the month there weren't many customers and they were paying in cash.

I doubt the benefits have kept up with inflation, particularly not over the last years.  It said she had a 90 minute commute, so there's a good chance she's above the pay range to even receive the benefits and it's actually gas that's eating up all her money.

The US is a terrible nation to be poor in... we don't even recognize most of the poor people as poor.


That works out pretty well for sit at home stock owners
 
2022-07-07 11:50:48 AM  

OhioUGrad: This.

I have an Amazon card and use it to buy things from Amazon and then pay off the entire balance the next month. It gets me a % back to use on Amazon and I don't buy things I cannot pay off in full the next month. Same for my credit union's card that I used to use when traveling for work and would pay off expenses in full when I got reimbursed the next month.

Also, why the "interesting" tag instead of dumbass or facepalm?


Well, because it's the marketing - they're being marketed to specific groups that may not understand the full implications, or how to use it. Hell, I got a banner for a 13$ purchase from Shein last night saying I could break up the payments on some cheap earrings over 4 payments of 2.14 a piece!

The ubiquity and ease is problematic, and it's not taught what effects it could have.
 
2022-07-07 12:09:09 PM  
I have a small online store and I actually wrote an entire email to my customers about how to save the most using a BNPL checkout option.

- Orders over $35 ship free in the us, and international orders over $35 get a $5 automatic discount. So try to hit that because the "free shipping" is baked into all my prices (I have to offer this because my Etsy store does and I want people to buy from my stand alone store and not the Etsy one)
- Buy the bulk version of products as the cost per ounce is lower

Essentially if they (smartly) use the BNPL checkout and that lets them pay a little more now, get a 500g pack of herbal hair dye and free shipping, they come out ahead over buying a 100g pack + shipping, once a month for 5 months. They save $50 ($25 in just shipping, and another $15 on product cost), for the same amount of hair dye.

And then I only have to pack and ship one order instead of 5 :P

There are for sure ways to wisely get ahead with a BNPL option, but just like with credit cards, when you get down to using them for essentials and are robbing Peter to pay Paul, things tend to hit a tipping point and it all implodes.
 
2022-07-07 12:13:59 PM  

OptionC: So the BNPLs charge a transaction fee (like a CC) but don't charge interest on their installments?  That sounds like an old-school charge-card.

Sooo... what happens when someone doesn't pay?  OG Amex-style charge-cards reduced their default risk by applying strict credit score criteria to their users, normal credit-cards use a combination of credit-scoring and exorbitant interest rates to de-risk themselves, and secured cards are, well, secured.

If the BNPLs have just been depending on a good economy to keep defaults down they are in big trouble at some point.


The good ones that are truly zero cost or down payment  to you have strict credit requirements.
 
2022-07-07 12:14:53 PM  

Linux_Yes: Stephen_Falken: Buried lede: the maijor finance players don't want this to happen because it's impacting their own bottom line.
This is late-stage capitalism chillun, aint nothin new under the sun.

[Fark user image image 425x318]


Ironic being posted by someone so in love with crypto.
 
2022-07-07 12:21:41 PM  

Intrepid00: OptionC: So the BNPLs charge a transaction fee (like a CC) but don't charge interest on their installments?  That sounds like an old-school charge-card.

Sooo... what happens when someone doesn't pay?  OG Amex-style charge-cards reduced their default risk by applying strict credit score criteria to their users, normal credit-cards use a combination of credit-scoring and exorbitant interest rates to de-risk themselves, and secured cards are, well, secured.

If the BNPLs have just been depending on a good economy to keep defaults down they are in big trouble at some point.

The good ones that are truly zero cost or down payment  to you have strict credit requirements.


So they're using the credit-scoring system without feeding back to it?
 
2022-07-07 12:36:16 PM  

Ashraiel: I have a small online store and I actually wrote an entire email to my customers about how to save the most using a BNPL checkout option.

- Orders over $35 ship free in the us, and international orders over $35 get a $5 automatic discount. So try to hit that because the "free shipping" is baked into all my prices (I have to offer this because my Etsy store does and I want people to buy from my stand alone store and not the Etsy one)
- Buy the bulk version of products as the cost per ounce is lower

Essentially if they (smartly) use the BNPL checkout and that lets them pay a little more now, get a 500g pack of herbal hair dye and free shipping, they come out ahead over buying a 100g pack + shipping, once a month for 5 months. They save $50 ($25 in just shipping, and another $15 on product cost), for the same amount of hair dye.

And then I only have to pack and ship one order instead of 5 :P

There are for sure ways to wisely get ahead with a BNPL option, but just like with credit cards, when you get down to using them for essentials and are robbing Peter to pay Paul, things tend to hit a tipping point and it all implodes.


Pro tip - there's another form of BNPL called a "bank account". It takes a bit of effort to set up in the first place but it pays off in the long run. How it works is that you choose a target balance and put money in until you reach it. Then you get to buy something. Once you have refilled the account up to your threshold, you get to buy something else.

The advanced version lets you set a second threshold as a minimum balance below which you will never intentionally withdraw money. This provides a layer of cheap insurance against bank errors and overdraft fees.
 
2022-07-07 12:37:35 PM  

saintstryfe: OhioUGrad: This.

I have an Amazon card and use it to buy things from Amazon and then pay off the entire balance the next month. It gets me a % back to use on Amazon and I don't buy things I cannot pay off in full the next month. Same for my credit union's card that I used to use when traveling for work and would pay off expenses in full when I got reimbursed the next month.

Also, why the "interesting" tag instead of dumbass or facepalm?

Well, because it's the marketing - they're being marketed to specific groups that may not understand the full implications, or how to use it. Hell, I got a banner for a 13$ purchase from Shein last night saying I could break up the payments on some cheap earrings over 4 payments of 2.14 a piece!

The ubiquity and ease is problematic, and it's not taught what effects it could have.


Why do you hate unfettered and unregulated capitalism?!?!

/kidding
//people need to be educated on these types of things
///however our education on these things is piss-poor
 
2022-07-07 12:58:53 PM  
I've used it occasionally for big-ticket purchases.  Music/Guitar suppliers will do 0% interest/12 payments that just auto-bill your credit card.   If you've been waiting for a certain guitar for a few years, its available, you have the 2 grand to buy it but you'd rather not fork that over all at once? its a great option.

As long as you're a "pay your credit card off in full every month" kind of person. I habitually pay of the card every pay day online just to zero it out;  Otherwise you could easily get yourself in a nasty hole.
 
2022-07-07 1:05:38 PM  

phedex: I've used it occasionally for big-ticket purchases.  Music/Guitar suppliers will do 0% interest/12 payments that just auto-bill your credit card.   If you've been waiting for a certain guitar for a few years, its available, you have the 2 grand to buy it but you'd rather not fork that over all at once? its a great option.

As long as you're a "pay your credit card off in full every month" kind of person. I habitually pay of the card every pay day online just to zero it out;  Otherwise you could easily get yourself in a nasty hole.


I don't understand how someone who would do this obsessively would be the kind of person who would need to do this.
 
2022-07-07 1:16:30 PM  

BMFPitt: I don't understand how someone who would do this obsessively would be the kind of person who would need to do this.


It's not so much we NEED to - it's that its nice to be able to have something now and pay it down with no extra cost. Its a nice perk for those of us who have worked hard to keep a good credit reputation.

/went in 2 years went from <500 to over 700, by making sure my bills were paid off, and keeping an introductory credit card from AMEX that I paid off in full every month.
//currently about a 750, which nets me near-daily credit card offers...
 
2022-07-07 1:17:34 PM  

phedex: Music/Guitar suppliers will do 0% interest/12 payments that just auto-bill your credit card.   If you've been waiting for a certain guitar for a few years, its available, you have the 2 grand to buy it but you'd rather not fork that over all at once? its a great option.


I'll admit when that sort of thing comes up for me (usually with technology stuff) I tend to use the extra to buy the accessories I want with it.
 
2022-07-07 1:20:24 PM  

saintstryfe: It's not so much we NEED to - it's that its nice to be able to have something now and pay it down with no extra cost. Its a nice perk for those of us who have worked hard to keep a good credit reputation.


I meant to clip the first paragraph.  I was responding to the second.  Which says the opposite of what you're talking about.
 
2022-07-07 1:23:19 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Ashraiel: I have a small online store and I actually wrote an entire email to my customers about how to save the most using a BNPL checkout option.

- Orders over $35 ship free in the us, and international orders over $35 get a $5 automatic discount. So try to hit that because the "free shipping" is baked into all my prices (I have to offer this because my Etsy store does and I want people to buy from my stand alone store and not the Etsy one)
- Buy the bulk version of products as the cost per ounce is lower

Essentially if they (smartly) use the BNPL checkout and that lets them pay a little more now, get a 500g pack of herbal hair dye and free shipping, they come out ahead over buying a 100g pack + shipping, once a month for 5 months. They save $50 ($25 in just shipping, and another $15 on product cost), for the same amount of hair dye.

And then I only have to pack and ship one order instead of 5 :P

There are for sure ways to wisely get ahead with a BNPL option, but just like with credit cards, when you get down to using them for essentials and are robbing Peter to pay Paul, things tend to hit a tipping point and it all implodes.

Pro tip - there's another form of BNPL called a "bank account". It takes a bit of effort to set up in the first place but it pays off in the long run. How it works is that you choose a target balance and put money in until you reach it. Then you get to buy something. Once you have refilled the account up to your threshold, you get to buy something else.

The advanced version lets you set a second threshold as a minimum balance below which you will never intentionally withdraw money. This provides a layer of cheap insurance against bank errors and overdraft fees.


I mean... yes? But that's not always an option for everyone. It for sure wasn't an option for me at various points in my life and it can be very expensive to be poor.

In the long run, it's smarter to pay up front if you can, but the reality is that for a lot of people they can't. It's all part of why it's so expensive to be poor. So if there's an option for someone to use BNPL to get the same savings on bulk purchases that someone who has the money to do it up front, that spares some of the nickel-and-dimed purchasing that makes it harder for someone TO get ahead enough to be able to make those more expensive purchases upfront.
 
2022-07-07 1:32:56 PM  
To continue the thought above, this is literally Sam Vimes "Bootstheory of socioeconomic unfairness in action.

If someone can use a BNPL to get a pair of boots that will last 10 years rather than the shiatty ones they have to replace every year, and can do it without the interest they'd pay if they did the same thing using a credit card, that's a better option.

And that's the thing about being poor; it's super easy to be like "ho ho! silly poor person, why didn't you just save up and buy this thing outright!" It's easy to feel smart because the poor make "bad decisions" but honestly when you're strapped you're trying to pick the least bad of your options, all of which are shiatty choices.

Sure, buying cash up front is ideal, if you are in the position to do so. But I'm not going to thumb my nose at someone who can't, but is trying to make the second-best decision that gives them more purchasing power with what little money they have at the time.
 
2022-07-07 1:38:04 PM  

BMFPitt: phedex: I've used it occasionally for big-ticket purchases.  Music/Guitar suppliers will do 0% interest/12 payments that just auto-bill your credit card.   If you've been waiting for a certain guitar for a few years, its available, you have the 2 grand to buy it but you'd rather not fork that over all at once? its a great option.

As long as you're a "pay your credit card off in full every month" kind of person. I habitually pay of the card every pay day online just to zero it out;  Otherwise you could easily get yourself in a nasty hole.

I don't understand how someone who would do this obsessively would be the kind of person who would need to do this.


Pay off the credit card every 2 weeks, or pay 150 bucks a month with 0% interest for a year on a couple thousand dollar guitar?
 
2022-07-07 1:41:37 PM  

phedex: Pay off the credit card every 2 weeks, or pay 150 bucks a month with 0% interest for a year on a couple thousand dollar guitar?


Pay off the card every 2 weeks.
 
2022-07-07 1:47:03 PM  

saintstryfe: I've only used BNPL for things I have money for, but just don't want to buy all at once. It's no different than a credit card, except you can have no/little interest. If you treat a credit card badly, you'll treat BNPL badly. Plenty of reasonable uses for it.

Current example: I use Mint Mobile for my cell service, and I buy a yearly plan because under that, my service is only 30$ a month for unlimited use. The yearly plan costs about 400$ after fees and taxes - a bargain, but a big hit at once. So I use BNPL through my AMEX (which they call PlanIt)- it's supposed to be paid off in 6 payments, I'll pay it off in two, owe next to nothing - Amex's scheme you pay a smaller set fee rather than floating a balance, I think my one fee I'll take on this will be like 4$ - and not have to think about it for another year.


Is it really unlimited, or 480p video only after 10GB?
 
2022-07-07 2:43:52 PM  

Ketchuponsteak: Is it really unlimited, or 480p video only after 10GB?


480p. If I could tell a difference I'd tell you. It's an iPhone 12 Pro, I don't think 1080p is really needed for most things. I don't use it to stream to a TV (I have T-Mobile Home Internet for that).
 
2022-07-07 2:58:18 PM  

BMFPitt: phedex: Pay off the credit card every 2 weeks, or pay 150 bucks a month with 0% interest for a year on a couple thousand dollar guitar?

Pay off the card every 2 weeks.


Eh, credit card is used for everything.  to me it just makes sense to zero it out on payday every week when I check my account. Plus, I build up a couple nights worth of hotel stays a year with the thing, which comes in handy!
 
2022-07-07 3:03:55 PM  

phedex: Eh, credit card is used for everything.  to me it just makes sense to zero it out on payday every week when I check my account. Plus, I build up a couple nights worth of hotel stays a year with the thing, which comes in handy!


If interest rates start creeping up to the point where they're meaningful again, that extra 4-6 weeks of float might definitely be worth something.

// Just looked and still sitting at 0.3%.
// I remember my old 5.25% account back in 2008.
 
2022-07-07 3:16:57 PM  
does anyone remember that roughly week and a half in about 1990 when you could charge stuff on 1-800 numbers to your phone bill?

i was surprised it lasted as long as it did
 
2022-07-07 3:22:58 PM  
interest rates are like payday loans.


Fark user imageView Full Size
Fark user imageView Full Size



these places are the devil
 
2022-07-07 4:34:49 PM  

OptionC: Intrepid00: OptionC: So the BNPLs charge a transaction fee (like a CC) but don't charge interest on their installments?  That sounds like an old-school charge-card.

Sooo... what happens when someone doesn't pay?  OG Amex-style charge-cards reduced their default risk by applying strict credit score criteria to their users, normal credit-cards use a combination of credit-scoring and exorbitant interest rates to de-risk themselves, and secured cards are, well, secured.

If the BNPLs have just been depending on a good economy to keep defaults down they are in big trouble at some point.

The good ones that are truly zero cost or down payment  to you have strict credit requirements.

So they're using the credit-scoring system without feeding back to it?


Some do. Some don't.

You probably don't want them reporting back if they only give you enough credit to buy what you want.
 
2022-07-07 5:56:43 PM  
I feel like the butt hurt in TFA is the fact that data companies are getting less accurate scraping from financial sites by this, and financial companies are missing out on fees and interest. They don't want it to grow or they'll be less effective parasites over time.
 
2022-07-07 10:57:46 PM  

saintstryfe: Ketchuponsteak: Is it really unlimited, or 480p video only after 10GB?

480p. If I could tell a difference I'd tell you. It's an iPhone 12 Pro, I don't think 1080p is really needed for most things. I don't use it to stream to a TV (I have T-Mobile Home Internet for that).


I really wanted to like TMO home internet. It was $50 for higher average speeds (when it worked well) than our $95/mo Xfinity service. Unfortunately, the drops were annoying, and entirely too frequent - I'd have great 5G service on my TMO IPhone 13, and squat on my deprioritized TMO garbage can. And when it dropped to LTE and had to be restarted to find the 5G tower again, it just wasn't worth the hassle.

So far switching to $90/mo gigabit fiber has been the best solution.
 
2022-07-07 11:23:10 PM  

BMFPitt: phedex: Eh, credit card is used for everything.  to me it just makes sense to zero it out on payday every week when I check my account. Plus, I build up a couple nights worth of hotel stays a year with the thing, which comes in handy!

If interest rates start creeping up to the point where they're meaningful again, that extra 4-6 weeks of float might definitely be worth something.

// Just looked and still sitting at 0.3%.
// I remember my old 5.25% account back in 2008.


They don't even bother sending me a 1099 anymore since rates are so low.

My main credit card is prime rate plus 5.65%. It's still below 10%, but definitely higher than it was.
 
2022-07-07 11:23:45 PM  

ltdanman44: interest rates are like payday loans.


[Fark user image 284x166][Fark user image 225x225]


these places are the devil


Those look like Rent To Own places, and yes they are evil and prey on the poor.  Literally, if you do the math, you're better off going to a regular furniture or appliance store and putting it on your credit card if they don't have some sort of in house financing, which they all do.

The article is about Buy Now Pay Later.  The interest rates are typically low or even 0%, the lenders are gambling on you missing a payment and incurring fees.  If used correctly it can be a way to easily pay for one off expenses, say you need a new water heater, or central air unit, you don't have a couple grand in your bank account yet you can come up with that kind of money a couple months, it'll be cheaper than putting it on your credit card, but if you're putting your groceries on a BNPL app... the odds are pretty good you're going to bounce a check soon.

They also take a fee from the vendor.
 
2022-07-08 8:31:19 AM  

Izunbacol: saintstryfe: Ketchuponsteak: Is it really unlimited, or 480p video only after 10GB?

480p. If I could tell a difference I'd tell you. It's an iPhone 12 Pro, I don't think 1080p is really needed for most things. I don't use it to stream to a TV (I have T-Mobile Home Internet for that).

I really wanted to like TMO home internet. It was $50 for higher average speeds (when it worked well) than our $95/mo Xfinity service. Unfortunately, the drops were annoying, and entirely too frequent - I'd have great 5G service on my TMO IPhone 13, and squat on my deprioritized TMO garbage can. And when it dropped to LTE and had to be restarted to find the 5G tower again, it just wasn't worth the hassle.

So far switching to $90/mo gigabit fiber has been the best solution.


yeah, I hated Spectrum's service here in Louisville, and AT&T wouldn't bring fiber the literal 50 feet to my door (my former business, close enough to throw a football from my back porch to my business' back door, the business got fiber but they wouldn't extend it to my door, even when I offered to pay for it). I've had 99.5% uptime, and speeds faster than most of Spectrum's services, and way faster then ATT DSL, so it has worked great for me. The only minor downside is the wifi doesn't like my iPhone for some reason. I'm considering a router upgrade to help with that soon.
 
2022-07-08 10:09:07 AM  

electricjebus: they are evil and prey on the poor


and people with bad credit.  20 years ago and this is the only place that would give me credit.  43% interest rate for a computer.  I also had a buy here/pay here car @ 26% interest.

the other thing they do is front load the loan with all the interest.  so the first few years, 75% of the payment was to the total interest over the life of the loan.

how this is legal is beyond me
 
2022-07-08 10:39:19 AM  

ltdanman44: electricjebus: they are evil and prey on the poor

and people with bad credit.  20 years ago and this is the only place that would give me credit.  43% interest rate for a computer.  I also had a buy here/pay here car @ 26% interest.

the other thing they do is front load the loan with all the interest.  so the first few years, 75% of the payment was to the total interest over the life of the loan.

how this is legal is beyond me


Re: front loading the interest:  you pay Back the principal, and the interest on the remaining loan. If you have a flat, unchanging principal payment, and the interest payment added to that, it would be   A high payment that slowly decrease over the life of the loan.

If the interest and payment were both spread out evenly across the loan, you'd be starting with a low APR that increases exponentially toward the end of the loan.

Example:  if this were a 20000 loan at 10% APR for 60 months, payment would be $425 and the total interest would be $5,497. That averages about $90 a month in interest, or 1080/year.

$1080 on a $20,000 balance is a bit over a 5% APR AND $1080 on a $5000 balance toward the end of the loan would be 20+%. In fact, on the last payment, $90 on the remaining 335 of principal would be over 26%.

So, that's how it's legal. Having an interest rate that climbs to more a loan is paid would be an incentive to keep rolling over loans rather than paying them off.
 
2022-07-08 12:06:53 PM  

Izunbacol: ltdanman44: electricjebus: they are evil and prey on the poor

and people with bad credit.  20 years ago and this is the only place that would give me credit.  43% interest rate for a computer.  I also had a buy here/pay here car @ 26% interest.

the other thing they do is front load the loan with all the interest.  so the first few years, 75% of the payment was to the total interest over the life of the loan.

how this is legal is beyond me

Re: front loading the interest:  you pay Back the principal, and the interest on the remaining loan. If you have a flat, unchanging principal payment, and the interest payment added to that, it would be   A high payment that slowly decrease over the life of the loan.

If the interest and payment were both spread out evenly across the loan, you'd be starting with a low APR that increases exponentially toward the end of the loan.

Example:  if this were a 20000 loan at 10% APR for 60 months, payment would be $425 and the total interest would be $5,497. That averages about $90 a month in interest, or 1080/year.

$1080 on a $20,000 balance is a bit over a 5% APR AND $1080 on a $5000 balance toward the end of the loan would be 20+%. In fact, on the last payment, $90 on the remaining 335 of principal would be over 26%.

So, that's how it's legal. Having an interest rate that climbs to more a loan is paid would be an incentive to keep rolling over loans rather than paying them off.


You are wise. I am not good in math.
 
2022-07-08 12:32:27 PM  

electricjebus: dustman81: CaptSS: The lady in the story is headed for bad times. What makes her think she can afford the $400 grocery bill in the next month or two when she can't afford it now? Is she hoping the .25 cent raise goes thru or is she praying to God for help? Plus, she will be paying for last months groceries while buying this months groceries. It's not stretching the budget, it's over extending yourself.

And on the other hand, when you are trying to feed four people and don't have cash to buy food, what is she suppose to do?

It says she's a single mother with three kids. She is probably eligible for food stamps. It doesn't say if she is on SNAP.

I worked at a grocery store in a poor neighborhood over 20 years ago.  At the beginning of the month it would look like a picture from the Soviet Union, long lines, everybody paying in EBT... by the end of the month there weren't many customers and they were paying in cash.

I doubt the benefits have kept up with inflation, particularly not over the last years.  It said she had a 90 minute commute, so there's a good chance she's above the pay range to even receive the benefits and it's actually gas that's eating up all her money.

The US is a terrible nation to be poor in... we don't even recognize most of the poor people as poor.


Oh? The first week of July/August/September at our Winco is prime people-watching. All the hill folk come down to shop for the farm crews.
 
2022-07-08 9:26:09 PM  

question_dj: Companies are really quick in learning how to exploit economic crises


And how to make them!
 
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