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(Honolulu Star Advertiser)   What's a parent to do after their son threatens to kill the entire family and has 16 knives, a dagger and a sword confiscated by police? Sponsor his application for a semi-automatic rifle, of course   (staradvertiser.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Rifle, Illinois, United States, Semi-automatic rifle, Assault rifle, Supreme Court of the United States, Semi-automatic firearm, Firearm  
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3253 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 06 Jul 2022 at 11:25 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-07-06 9:04:04 PM  
yup
more laws will fix it
 
2022-07-06 9:16:41 PM  
"Gee, if only we'd had some warning... some kind of red flag that maybe our son was a killer... well, maybe next time!"
 
2022-07-06 9:22:06 PM  

cretinbob: yup
more laws will fix it


Exactly.

Guns need to go.
 
2022-07-06 9:25:01 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-07-06 10:10:34 PM  
Good thing for daddy that rich white Republican men don't face consequences in this country.

Not expecting this to go down like the Crumbleys' arrest. BTW did Ricky Schroeder post bail for them yet?
 
2022-07-06 10:15:18 PM  
"Threaten to kill us all with knives? I don't think so."

*hands kid rifle*

"Take that behavior outside, young man."
 
2022-07-06 11:27:24 PM  

OldRod: "Gee, if only we'd had some warning... some kind of red flag that maybe our son was a killer... well, maybe next time!"


there were a hundred red flags, wrapped in other red flags, all covered up with a huge red flag
 
2022-07-06 11:31:16 PM  
I find it strange that you can be considered an adult at age 18 but the State of Illinois will still require the signature of a parent or legal guardian for you to buy or possess a firearm if under age 21.

Bonus is that if your parent is prohibited from firearm possession, you can't be approved for a FOID with them as a signatory. If both of your parents are prohibited you cannot get a FOID even if you don't live with your parents.

Also, buried in the FOID legislation is this: Upon such written consent, pursuant to Section 4, paragraph (a)(2)(i), the parent or legal guardian giving the consent shall be liable for any damages resulting from the applicant's use of firearms or firearm ammunition.
 
2022-07-06 11:36:10 PM  

mrmopar5287: I find it strange that you can be considered an adult at age 18 but the State of Illinois will still require the signature of a parent or legal guardian for you to buy or possess a firearm if under age 21.

Bonus is that if your parent is prohibited from firearm possession, you can't be approved for a FOID with them as a signatory. If both of your parents are prohibited you cannot get a FOID even if you don't live with your parents.

Also, buried in the FOID legislation is this: Upon such written consent, pursuant to Section 4, paragraph (a)(2)(i), the parent or legal guardian giving the consent shall be liable for any damages resulting from the applicant's use of firearms or firearm ammunition.


Well I know what SCOTUS is throwing out next.
 
2022-07-06 11:36:32 PM  

mrmopar5287: I find it strange that you can be considered an adult at age 18 but the State of Illinois will still require the signature of a parent or legal guardian for you to buy or possess a firearm if under age 21.

Bonus is that if your parent is prohibited from firearm possession, you can't be approved for a FOID with them as a signatory. If both of your parents are prohibited you cannot get a FOID even if you don't live with your parents.

Also, buried in the FOID legislation is this: Upon such written consent, pursuant to Section 4, paragraph (a)(2)(i), the parent or legal guardian giving the consent shall be liable for any damages resulting from the applicant's use of firearms or firearm ammunition.


I find it strange that it sounds like you're complaining about this
 
2022-07-06 11:36:35 PM  

cretinbob: yup
more laws will fix it


yup, getting rid of abortion will fix it
 
2022-07-06 11:37:26 PM  
Oh, it's this thread again.  Fun.
 
2022-07-06 11:38:00 PM  

DonkeyDixon: mrmopar5287: I find it strange that you can be considered an adult at age 18 but the State of Illinois will still require the signature of a parent or legal guardian for you to buy or possess a firearm if under age 21.

Bonus is that if your parent is prohibited from firearm possession, you can't be approved for a FOID with them as a signatory. If both of your parents are prohibited you cannot get a FOID even if you don't live with your parents.

Also, buried in the FOID legislation is this: Upon such written consent, pursuant to Section 4, paragraph (a)(2)(i), the parent or legal guardian giving the consent shall be liable for any damages resulting from the applicant's use of firearms or firearm ammunition.

I find it strange that it sounds like you're complaining about this


Are you saying the guy should be charged as a juvenile?
 
2022-07-06 11:40:37 PM  

null: Well I know what SCOTUS is throwing out next.


The state supreme court has spent a couple years (ruling twice on the same case) narrowly dancing around declaring FOID unconstitutional. They're working hard to throw the came case back to the lower courts on procedural grounds and maybe a 3rd or 4th bite at that apple will get that job done.
 
2022-07-06 11:41:34 PM  
American gun culture, rah rah rah.

motherjones.comView Full Size
 
2022-07-06 11:41:47 PM  

Jeebus Saves: Are you saying the guy should be charged as a juvenile?


Not at all. If you're 18, you're an adult. If you're an adult, you should be able to get a FOID without needing a parent or legal guardian to sign for you because they are no longer legally responsible for you.
 
2022-07-06 11:43:11 PM  
He initially evaded capture by disguising himself as a woman and blending into the fleeing crowd...

Well that settles it.  Radical liberal antifa confirmed.

/s
 
2022-07-06 11:47:10 PM  
JFC.
 
2022-07-06 11:48:48 PM  
Right to own a gun: secure.

Right to be a two-year-old boy who grows up with parents: not secure.

This country is so screwed.
 
2022-07-06 11:50:58 PM  
Everyone flips out when a gun is used for its intended purpose.
 
2022-07-06 11:53:54 PM  

OldRod: "Gee, if only we'd had some warning... some kind of red flag that maybe our son was a killer... well, maybe next time!"


FTA
"The state police have defended how the application was handled, saying that at the time "there was insufficient basis to establish a clear and present danger" and deny the application, state police said in a statement."

A history of terroristic threats should automatically be a red flag for any gun application.

It'll never happen though. Too many lawmakers depend on stochastic terror to feed their base.
 
2022-07-06 11:55:22 PM  
"the parents aren't concerned about being charged with anything related to their son's case."

That's part of the problem. Gun control laws can never work so long as sociopaths like these parents continue to skate free without so much as being charged as an accessory to the crime.
 
2022-07-06 11:55:59 PM  

RedVentrue: OldRod: "Gee, if only we'd had some warning... some kind of red flag that maybe our son was a killer... well, maybe next time!"

FTA
"The state police have defended how the application was handled, saying that at the time "there was insufficient basis to establish a clear and present danger" and deny the application, state police said in a statement."

A history of terroristic threats should automatically be a red flag for any gun application.

It'll never happen though. Too many lawmakers depend on stochastic terror to feed their base.


How many farkers would be allowed to own a gun if we did that?  Not many.
 
2022-07-06 11:57:05 PM  

Bruscar: "the parents aren't concerned about being charged with anything related to their son's case."

That's part of the problem. Gun control laws can never work so long as sociopaths like these parents continue to skate free without so much as being charged as an accessory to the crime.


The shooter is an adult.  How in the fark do you think that would even be legal?
 
2022-07-06 11:57:19 PM  
Charge them with accessory to murder.
 
2022-07-06 11:59:23 PM  

RedVentrue: FTA
"The state police have defended how the application was handled, saying that at the time "there was insufficient basis to establish a clear and present danger" and deny the application, state police said in a statement."


They are the same state police who screwed the pooch with the Aurora workplace shooter who:
1. Was issued a FOID despite a felony conviction,
2. Was approved to buy a gun despite a felony conviction, and;
3. Was only caught when he submitted fingerprints for a concealed carry license, implying that if he had filed the application without fingerprints that he would have been approved for a concealed carry license.

That same state police did nothing to get the gun back from the convicted felon despite knowing they had approved the sale to him.
 
2022-07-06 11:59:36 PM  

Jeebus Saves: RedVentrue: OldRod: "Gee, if only we'd had some warning... some kind of red flag that maybe our son was a killer... well, maybe next time!"

FTA
"The state police have defended how the application was handled, saying that at the time "there was insufficient basis to establish a clear and present danger" and deny the application, state police said in a statement."

A history of terroristic threats should automatically be a red flag for any gun application.

It'll never happen though. Too many lawmakers depend on stochastic terror to feed their base.

How many farkers would be allowed to own a gun if we did that?  Not many.


I'm OK with that.
 
2022-07-07 12:03:12 AM  

cryinoutloud: American gun culture, rah rah rah.

[motherjones.com image 462x594]


I am a gun owner, but mostly because of history, grandfather a Policeman dad in Vietnam. They are in a safe and have not shot them in 18 years. I will bring them out soon and teach my daughters to shoot targets and clay pigeons.

This picture makes a huge point, people think they own a gun to protect themselves everyone else and from China, yet it is our citizens and cops killing people, not any foreign country or very few illegal immigrants.  Road ragers, domestic violence, suicide and American extremists kill the most people.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-07-07 12:03:32 AM  

mrmopar5287: RedVentrue: FTA
"The state police have defended how the application was handled, saying that at the time "there was insufficient basis to establish a clear and present danger" and deny the application, state police said in a statement."

They are the same state police who screwed the pooch with the Aurora workplace shooter who:
1. Was issued a FOID despite a felony conviction,
2. Was approved to buy a gun despite a felony conviction, and;
3. Was only caught when he submitted fingerprints for a concealed carry license, implying that if he had filed the application without fingerprints that he would have been approved for a concealed carry license.

That same state police did nothing to get the gun back from the convicted felon despite knowing they had approved the sale to him.


Might be they don't want to put themselves out of work. Besides guns are scary. Violence justifies their need for violence. It's a crazy world because we like it that way as a species.
 
2022-07-07 12:07:18 AM  
Hopefully, the families of the victims sue this dad into poverty.
 
2022-07-07 12:09:23 AM  

mrmopar5287: RedVentrue: FTA
"The state police have defended how the application was handled, saying that at the time "there was insufficient basis to establish a clear and present danger" and deny the application, state police said in a statement."

They are the same state police who screwed the pooch with the Aurora workplace shooter who:
1. Was issued a FOID despite a felony conviction,
2. Was approved to buy a gun despite a felony conviction, and;
3. Was only caught when he submitted fingerprints for a concealed carry license, implying that if he had filed the application without fingerprints that he would have been approved for a concealed carry license.

That same state police did nothing to get the gun back from the convicted felon despite knowing they had approved the sale to him.


See, I think this might be the bigger issue.

Doesn't matter what sort of legislation you pass if the cops can't be arsed to enforce it.
 
2022-07-07 12:10:08 AM  

RedVentrue: Might be they don't want to put themselves out of work


There are probably several hundred state employees with jobs that exist because of FOID. They don't want to be out of their paper-pushing jobs because the state falls back to how almost every other state handles this (if you're prohibited on the federal level, you're prohibited from possession and you don't need a fancy ID from the state police to show the opposite).

On the flip side of that, they're also state employees who are absolutely paranoid for making similar mistakes such as what happened in Aurora. The result is that backlogs and wait times for FOID and concealed carry licenses have stretched beyond what is statutorily required by law because state employees are paralyzed with fear that they will miss something in the files and approve the wrong thing.

I mean, did anyone get fired for what happened in Aurora? Multiple people were killed there, including a company HR intern fresh out of college on his first day at the job. Multiple people dead and did any state employee get fired? Probably not...
 
2022-07-07 12:12:33 AM  

LOLITROLU: Doesn't matter what sort of legislation you pass if the cops can't be arsed to enforce it.


They mumble "something something unfunded mandate" about getting the gun back from the felon and then they hand it off to the local sheriff or police department to handle. Those departments aren't responsible and don't have funding for it, so they don't care.

Plus, the local cops were saying stuff about how dangerous it would be to go get the weapon from the guy who would be angry when police show up. My ideal scenario for that is getting a search warrant from a judge, waiting until the guy goes to work, and then getting the landlord to key open his apartment to search for the gun. If they find it, leave him a copy of the warrant and a note telling him they got it back and they don't need anything else from him.
 
2022-07-07 12:20:41 AM  

Jeebus Saves: Bruscar: "the parents aren't concerned about being charged with anything related to their son's case."

That's part of the problem. Gun control laws can never work so long as sociopaths like these parents continue to skate free without so much as being charged as an accessory to the crime.

The shooter is an adult.  How in the fark do you think that would even be legal?


Because he was under 21 and his parents sponsored his application to purchase those firearms even after he threatened to kill his family and had weapons previously confiscated by the police. The parents are legally liable under Illinois law.
 
2022-07-07 12:27:00 AM  

Rage Against the Thorazine: Jeebus Saves: Bruscar: "the parents aren't concerned about being charged with anything related to their son's case."

That's part of the problem. Gun control laws can never work so long as sociopaths like these parents continue to skate free without so much as being charged as an accessory to the crime.

The shooter is an adult.  How in the fark do you think that would even be legal?

Because he was under 21 and his parents sponsored his application to purchase those firearms even after he threatened to kill his family and had weapons previously confiscated by the police. The parents are legally liable under Illinois law.


What part of being an adult don't you understand?  They can charge the parents with whatever they want.  It wont last long in court.
 
2022-07-07 12:28:56 AM  
K so they knew he was dangerous and signed the government form saying he wasn't.
Isn't lying on a government form usually illegal?

Also as a tattoo enthusiast, any 21 year old, that isn't a tattoo artist, with face ink is a Goddamn fool
 
2022-07-07 12:31:31 AM  

mrmopar5287: Jeebus Saves: Are you saying the guy should be charged as a juvenile?

Not at all. If you're 18, you're an adult. If you're an adult, you should be able to get a FOID without needing a parent or legal guardian to sign for you because they are no longer legally responsible for you.


Really?  After all of this carnage. I despise stains like you.
 
2022-07-07 12:31:45 AM  

mrmopar5287: I find it strange that you can be considered an adult at age 18 but the State of Illinois will still require the signature of a parent or legal guardian for you to buy or possess a firearm if under age 21.

Bonus is that if your parent is prohibited from firearm possession, you can't be approved for a FOID with them as a signatory. If both of your parents are prohibited you cannot get a FOID even if you don't live with your parents.

Also, buried in the FOID legislation is this: Upon such written consent, pursuant to Section 4, paragraph (a)(2)(i), the parent or legal guardian giving the consent shall be liable for any damages resulting from the applicant's use of firearms or firearm ammunition.


Yeah, that's a strange law.

Jeebus Saves: The shooter is an adult. How in the fark do you think that would even be legal?


They should have known he was suicidal, they aided him in buying a gun.  I have no problem with criminal liability here.
 
2022-07-07 12:34:24 AM  

chicagogasman: mrmopar5287: Jeebus Saves: Are you saying the guy should be charged as a juvenile?

Not at all. If you're 18, you're an adult. If you're an adult, you should be able to get a FOID without needing a parent or legal guardian to sign for you because they are no longer legally responsible for you.

Really?  After all of this carnage. I despise stains like you.


Why? Why is someone who is legally an adult required to get another adult's signature to buy a firearm?

How about we start requiring women under age 21 to get a parent's signature to get an abortion? Would you change your tune then?
 
2022-07-07 12:38:27 AM  

Loren: Yeah, that's a strange law.


I dunno about strange. It basically just makes your parents responsible for you, just like when you are on their car insurance and get in an accident.
 
2022-07-07 12:40:36 AM  

phimuskapsi: Loren: Yeah, that's a strange law.

I dunno about strange. It basically just makes your parents responsible for you, just like when you are on their car insurance and get in an accident.


In a car accident, your parents are not responsible for you as an adult. The insurance company is obligated to provide coverage if you are on the policy.
 
2022-07-07 12:41:02 AM  

Jeebus Saves: What part of being an adult don't you understand?  They can charge the parents with whatever they want.  It wont last long in court.


Except for the contract they signed when they co-authored his application with the state.
 
2022-07-07 12:41:41 AM  
Hey everyone...
If your kid tattoos its face, don't help it buy a gun.

If your kid likes to die its hair different colors, don't help it buy a gun.

If your kid paints crap on your house and you don't care, don't help it buy a gun.

If your kid is generally fubar , don't help it buy a gun.
 
2022-07-07 12:42:10 AM  

mrmopar5287: In a car accident, your parents are not responsible for you as an adult. The insurance company is obligated to provide coverage if you are on the policy.


And? They can cover you till 25, which is adulthood. 

The guns in question were purchased with his parents signature on the form, that's a legally binding document.
 
2022-07-07 12:44:59 AM  

mrmopar5287: Jeebus Saves: Are you saying the guy should be charged as a juvenile?

Not at all. If you're 18, you're an adult. If you're an adult, you should be able to get a FOID without needing a parent or legal guardian to sign for you because they are no longer legally responsible for you.


You might want to actually read laws before saying dumb shiat.

https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/Faq.aspx

Section 2.

To be eligible for a FOID card, a person must be 21 years of age or have a parent or guardian sponsor that is eligible for a FOID card. An applicant must not be prohibited from possessing firearms in accordance with state or federal law. This requires the applicant is/has:
 
2022-07-07 12:46:00 AM  

OldRod: "Gee, if only we'd had some warning... some kind of red flag that maybe our son was a killer... well, maybe next time!"


The NRA will never allow that freedom to be impugned.


stand with the NRA.     Stand for freedom.  Stand for murder.    This is what the 2nd Amendment is meant to protect.
 
2022-07-07 12:46:02 AM  

phimuskapsi: mrmopar5287: In a car accident, your parents are not responsible for you as an adult. The insurance company is obligated to provide coverage if you are on the policy.

And? They can cover you till 25, which is adulthood.


Are you mistaking Obamacare for car insurance? Car insurance can kick you right off the policy the day you turn 18 and force you to buy your own. In fact, car insurance can entirely refuse to insure you even if you are a minor.
 
2022-07-07 12:46:10 AM  
4.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2022-07-07 12:46:58 AM  

phimuskapsi: mrmopar5287: Jeebus Saves: Are you saying the guy should be charged as a juvenile?

Not at all. If you're 18, you're an adult. If you're an adult, you should be able to get a FOID without needing a parent or legal guardian to sign for you because they are no longer legally responsible for you.

You might want to actually read laws before saying dumb shiat.

https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/Faq.aspx

Section 2.

To be eligible for a FOID card, a person must be 21 years of age or have a parent or guardian sponsor that is eligible for a FOID card. An applicant must not be prohibited from possessing firearms in accordance with state or federal law. This requires the applicant is/has:


I said SHOULD BE. I already know what the law currently says. What I'm saying is once you turn 18, why do you need a parent or legal guardian signature for this when you need it for literally nothing else?
 
2022-07-07 12:47:28 AM  
Semi-automatic weapon? Kamala said the assault weapon ban would have prevented this. Never mind that the definition of assault weapon includes the words "fully automatic".
 
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