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(EurekAlert)   F1's '80/20' rule doesn't pass muster according to data-drivers   (eurekalert.org) divider line
    More: Interesting, Formula One, new eight-season-long study, New study, skill of the driver, lead author Duane Rockerbie, important car, British Grand Prix, F1's oldest questions  
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698 clicks; posted to Sports » on 06 Jul 2022 at 11:40 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



21 Comments     (+0 »)
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2022-07-06 8:46:32 AM  
The answer is the question is bad? Booo!
 
2022-07-06 9:17:05 AM  
images.hgmsites.netView Full Size


"pass the mustard"

 
2022-07-06 9:21:01 AM  
The car and/or team is still, IMHO, more important than what TFA is talking about. For example, there was the race that Hamilton couldn't participate due to him having Covid. He was replaced by Russell, who was on the Williams team at the time. Russell's best career qualifying position was something like 14th or 13th IIRC before replacing Hamilton. I don't think he had an F1 point yet either.

Using the same (or very similar) car that Hamilton drove, Russell qualified in 2nd... and was about to win the race before he got a flat tire. Once Hamilton came back from Covid, Russell would again qualified in the teens in his final few races for Williams.

The drivers are super skilled in their trade, but not having the right car will affect their results.
 
2022-07-06 10:14:31 AM  
Did they not have the right jig...?

//ba dmm tssh
 
2022-07-06 11:05:48 AM  
Says a bunch of statistics people who don't know how this works

I'm on the Schumacher over Hamilton team, as truly a great driver as Ham is, he has spent his entire career at MB, which has been either dominant or at least podium for the entire time

Shumi went to Ferrari when they were shiat, and him an Ross managed to make it the 800 pound gorilla that it was.

But when Ferrari was maybe podium, and Mika was dominant with Mclaren Mercedes, he was still a threat

You need a car that can win, more importantly you need a driver who can (sorry Bottas)
 
2022-07-06 11:51:55 AM  

baka-san: he has spent his entire career at MB


cdn-wp.thesportsrush.comView Full Size
 
2022-07-06 11:54:29 AM  
Car, team, or driver?

I'll take option D: money.
 
2022-07-06 12:01:58 PM  

iamskibibitz: Car, team, or driver?

I'll take option D: money.


Thats basically the article.  Good drivers and good cars cost money.  Teams with money can hire good drivers and make good cars.  And overall the best times are when there is good driver and team interactions.  Ie Hamilton with Merc and not Bottas and Verstappen with Red Bull.  And not Vettel with Ferrari.
 
2022-07-06 12:15:33 PM  

willsomebody: iamskibibitz: Car, team, or driver?

I'll take option D: money.

Thats basically the article.  Good drivers and good cars cost money.  Teams with money can hire good drivers and make good cars.  And overall the best times are when there is good driver and team interactions.  Ie Hamilton with Merc and not Bottas and Verstappen with Red Bull.  And not Vettel with Ferrari.


Also, teams with money can afford to listen to their drivers' feedback more readily where "poorer" teams have to be more circumspect with every modification they make.  But there's new budget rules in play, so the math might change there.

The truism I like better is "It is the driver's job to win the race.  It is the team's job to keep them from losing."  I've seen bad strategy fark Ferrari more this year than any amount of mechanical problems or crappy driving ever could.  And no matter how good Charles is, Christian Horner can't be overcome.
 
2022-07-06 12:16:22 PM  
Christian Horner?  I'm on crack.Mattia Binotto
 
2022-07-06 12:23:26 PM  

UNC_Samurai: baka-san: he has spent his entire career at MB

[cdn-wp.thesportsrush.com image 850x478]


A very good point indeed. People somewhat forget the Hamilton McLaren years. Though I seem to recall they had Mercedes engines...
 
2022-07-06 12:23:56 PM  
Every race Leclerc gets pole I die a little inside knowing Fearri will fark it up and give it to that little dutch shiat.
 
2022-07-06 12:29:16 PM  
Based on my reading of TFA, it is primarily the car that decides the winner of the race but the driver contributes significantly to the optimization of the car.\ outside of the race.
 
2022-07-06 12:32:48 PM  
The formula changes, depending on a lot of variables. Cubic dollars has a lot to do with it. A huge budget will allow a team to hire the best designers and drivers, and can afford them to build the best cars. The 92-93 Williams would have won with just about anyone driving. The Mercedes, Ferrari, and Red bull mini-dynasties were the same. But how they got there is good designers with good feedback from top drivers. I believe Senna used to spend hours debriefing with his engineers after every drive. I expect that most of the championship drivers did the same. And it would be hard to argue that any team that can afford Newey and a top driver would not be in the running for a championship. It will be interesting to see what happens when they include driver salaries in the budget cap.
 
2022-07-06 12:41:29 PM  

hugram: The car and/or team is still, IMHO, more important than what TFA is talking about. For example, there was the race that Hamilton couldn't participate due to him having Covid. He was replaced by Russell, who was on the Williams team at the time. Russell's best career qualifying position was something like 14th or 13th IIRC before replacing Hamilton. I don't think he had an F1 point yet either.

Using the same (or very similar) car that Hamilton drove, Russell qualified in 2nd... and was about to win the race before he got a flat tire. Once Hamilton came back from Covid, Russell would again qualified in the teens in his final few races for Williams.

The drivers are super skilled in their trade, but not having the right car will affect their results.


That is actually exactly in line with what TFA is saying. Hamilton contributed a lot to developing and optimizing that car, not just driving it around the track. Even if Russell has a car built to the same basic specs, it hasn't been refined and optimized by him like Hamilton did for his car and that makes a huge difference.

Of course it is all integrated. Hamilton is a better driver and more likely to win, so the team puts more resources into optimizing his car to improve his chances to win and you have a difficult thing of assessing wat is the team vs driver contribution.

Over all, I think it is safe to say that on race day, the car and team has a far greater contribution than the driver. But the driver does also contribute to the team on other days.
 
2022-07-06 1:13:56 PM  
It's a rare talent who can consistently outperform with a poor car (those people then get the great cars, hence the dynastic feel to the championships these last... uhhh... 25+ years), but anyone can screw up a great car.  :)
 
2022-07-06 3:16:59 PM  

MoriartyLives: It's a rare talent who can consistently outperform with a poor car (those people then get the great cars, hence the dynastic feel to the championships these last... uhhh... 25+ years), but anyone can screw up a great car.  :)


Yeah, there's a reason Benetton immediately poached Michael Schumacher from Jordan after he qualified 7th in the 1991 Belgian Grand Prix.
 
2022-07-06 4:10:03 PM  

LucklessWonder: MoriartyLives: It's a rare talent who can consistently outperform with a poor car (those people then get the great cars, hence the dynastic feel to the championships these last... uhhh... 25+ years), but anyone can screw up a great car.  :)

Yeah, there's a reason Benetton immediately poached Michael Schumacher from Jordan after he qualified 7th in the 1991 Belgian Grand Prix.


I was a Damon Hill fan at that time and said to myself... Well, that's it. He's got a car now, that guy is going to just kill everyone.

The rest is history... Damon made a valiant effort but he was nowhere near the driver Schumacher was.
 
2022-07-06 4:14:46 PM  

willsomebody: Every race Leclerc gets pole I die a little inside knowing Fearri will fark it up and give it to that little dutch shiat.


Hello, me.
 
2022-07-06 4:18:42 PM  

NewportBarGuy: LucklessWonder: MoriartyLives: It's a rare talent who can consistently outperform with a poor car (those people then get the great cars, hence the dynastic feel to the championships these last... uhhh... 25+ years), but anyone can screw up a great car.  :)

Yeah, there's a reason Benetton immediately poached Michael Schumacher from Jordan after he qualified 7th in the 1991 Belgian Grand Prix.

I was a Damon Hill fan at that time and said to myself... Well, that's it. He's got a car now, that guy is going to just kill everyone.

The rest is history... Damon made a valiant effort but he was nowhere near the driver Schumacher was.


No, but the Williams' from 1992 to about 1997 was easily the best car on the grid. I don't think any car has come close to being as superior to the rest of the grid as the FW-14B was. Not even the McLaren MP4/4, Ferrari F2002, nor the Mercedes F1 W06
 
2022-07-06 5:04:18 PM  

LucklessWonder: NewportBarGuy: LucklessWonder: MoriartyLives: It's a rare talent who can consistently outperform with a poor car (those people then get the great cars, hence the dynastic feel to the championships these last... uhhh... 25+ years), but anyone can screw up a great car.  :)

Yeah, there's a reason Benetton immediately poached Michael Schumacher from Jordan after he qualified 7th in the 1991 Belgian Grand Prix.

I was a Damon Hill fan at that time and said to myself... Well, that's it. He's got a car now, that guy is going to just kill everyone.

The rest is history... Damon made a valiant effort but he was nowhere near the driver Schumacher was.

No, but the Williams' from 1992 to about 1997 was easily the best car on the grid. I don't think any car has come close to being as superior to the rest of the grid as the FW-14B was. Not even the McLaren MP4/4, Ferrari F2002, nor the Mercedes F1 W06


heh... Exactly. Was truly sad to see them just disintegrate over the years. But, that is motor racing.
 
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