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(CNBC)   Voyager files for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, sells off nebula caffeine stores to Dunkin   (cnbc.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Bankruptcy, Federal Reserve System, Insolvency, Default, crypto brokerage Voyager Digital, Debt, Asset, hedge fund Three Arrows Capital  
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561 clicks; posted to Business » on 06 Jul 2022 at 12:39 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



27 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-07-06 12:12:36 PM  
I would've gone with a Janeway self-destruct but save the one with the titties joke.
 
2022-07-06 12:37:19 PM  
Bon voyage.
 
2022-07-06 12:43:39 PM  
The money went somewhere...
 
2022-07-06 12:45:17 PM  
its all fun and games until it comes back looking for the creator.
 
2022-07-06 12:47:26 PM  

edmo: The money went somewhere...


i.imgflip.comView Full Size

... except it's cartoon apes and shiatcoins.
 
2022-07-06 12:47:47 PM  
I'm not worried.  I invested in Voyager 2.
 
2022-07-06 12:49:44 PM  
Oh, look, it's the crypto Lehman Brothers.
 
2022-07-06 12:51:46 PM  

edmo: The money went somewhere...


The imaginary crypto value was always imaginary for everybody except those that cashed out in time.

The initiall real fiat money that was used to buy the crypto that people in the exchange exchange..

that REAL fiat money is long gone. Only the poker players who don't know who they were the suckers are left at the poker table, and their poker chips have just turned into dust
 
2022-07-06 12:54:14 PM  
I'm genuinely curious - does their cryptocurrency actually count as an asset or a liability when it comes to bankruptcy? Is the cryptocurrency treated as an equity security, like shares?
 
2022-07-06 12:55:15 PM  
I bet Voyager employees are starting to really hate this timeline.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-07-06 12:55:32 PM  

ChibiDebuHage: edmo: The money went somewhere...

The imaginary crypto value was always imaginary for everybody except those that cashed out in time.

The initiall real fiat money that was used to buy the crypto that people in the exchange exchange..

that REAL fiat money is long gone. Only the poker players who don't know who they were the suckers are left at the poker table, and their poker chips have just turned into dust


Don't worry. That fiat money is FDIC insured.
 
2022-07-06 1:09:16 PM  

FormlessOne: I'm genuinely curious - does their cryptocurrency actually count as an asset or a liability when it comes to bankruptcy? Is the cryptocurrency treated as an equity security, like shares?


It is not an asset. You get lumped in with all of the other creditors.
 
2022-07-06 1:18:37 PM  

edmo: The money went somewhere...


It still kind of blows my mind that Farkers were saying this over and over during the 2008 crash, yet I, a 22-year-old with no finance/business background, understood perfectly where the money went. Let me explain it with an example:

Let's say you spent $2,000 on an NFT of a disinterested primate. Now the person who sold it to you has $2,000 cash and you have an NFT worth an equal amount of money. In some sense, it's like you still have the $2,000.

Then let's say the market value of that NFT goes down to $10 and we're sure it will never come back. The $1,990 in value that it lost is G-O-N-E. The guy who sold it to you still has $2,000, but $1,990 worth of value has still disappeared from the system.
 
2022-07-06 1:19:13 PM  

Ivo Shandor: ChibiDebuHage: edmo: The money went somewhere...

The imaginary crypto value was always imaginary for everybody except those that cashed out in time.

The initiall real fiat money that was used to buy the crypto that people in the exchange exchange..

that REAL fiat money is long gone. Only the poker players who don't know who they were the suckers are left at the poker table, and their poker chips have just turned into dust

Don't worry. That fiat money is FDIC insured.


Not sure if snark or serious - if serious (or for anyone that thinks it is), you're making a wildly dangerous assumption - custodial accounts (broadly speaking) can, and usually are, FDIC insured. It requires the organizations holding the funds to set up the account properly and have various procedures in place. Do you trust a company whose primary business is Crypto to set up their custodial accounts correctly to ensure FDIC protections actually apply to the people that deposited the funds? Even if they (Voyager) said the funds were, it's a fair bet they either didn't, or screwed up bad enough that the FDIC (or some other government abbreviation) will take a look and say "Nah, no protection for you, file your claim with the court like everyone else!"
 
2022-07-06 1:24:37 PM  

Opacity: Not sure if snark or serious


Clicking the link would answer that question.
 
2022-07-06 1:30:31 PM  
It's ok. They promised to give you voyager crypto of "equal value"
 
2022-07-06 1:37:10 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Opacity: Not sure if snark or serious

Clicking the link would answer that question.


It's a substack link... that's one of those places on my no-go list. I'll concede there's a few things there that are... not trash, but most of what I've seen seems to be fringe loon tin foil, a la it's the new "FW:FW:FW:RE:FW:FW:" haven.
 
2022-07-06 1:38:25 PM  
Chakotay will never be captain now.
 
2022-07-06 1:47:47 PM  

Fireproof: edmo: The money went somewhere...

It still kind of blows my mind that Farkers were saying this over and over during the 2008 crash, yet I, a 22-year-old with no finance/business background, understood perfectly where the money went. Let me explain it with an example:

Let's say you spent $2,000 on an NFT of a disinterested primate. Now the person who sold it to you has $2,000 cash and you have an NFT worth an equal amount of money. In some sense, it's like you still have the $2,000.

Then let's say the market value of that NFT goes down to $10 and we're sure it will never come back. The $1,990 in value that it lost is G-O-N-E. The guy who sold it to you still has $2,000, but $1,990 worth of value has still disappeared from the system.


THIS.

Also, people don't understand that when the business news sometimes talks about "billions" or "trillions" disappearing in a crash, often they were only imaginary to begin with.

For example, let's say I had some authentic Fark t-shirts, and through some clever use of Youtube infleuncers and Matt Damon, over the span of a few months I repeatedly manage to sell them each for $10,000 to some suckers. Meanwhile, let's say 100,000 other people out there have authentic Fark t-shirts and are quietly HOLDnig as they watch the market explode.

The talking head on the business news would say, "BREAKING! New Fark t-shirt business sector is now worth a staggering (100,000 x $10,000 = $1,000,000,000 ) A BILLION DOLLARS!

Now let's say the economy goes bad, and many of the authentic Fark Tshirt holders decide to sell at once, collapsing the value of the tshirts to $10.

The same talking heads on the business news would now say, "BREAKING! Nearly a BILLION dollars has been lost in the authentic Fark t-shirt business sector!!!"

Predictably, some people would start to say, "But where did that billion dollars go??!?!". NO! In fact, it was fantasy all along.
 
2022-07-06 1:51:12 PM  

Opacity: Ivo Shandor: Opacity: Not sure if snark or serious

Clicking the link would answer that question.

It's a substack link... that's one of those places on my no-go list. I'll concede there's a few things there that are... not trash, but most of what I've seen seems to be fringe loon tin foil, a la it's the new "FW:FW:FW:RE:FW:FW:" haven.


TLDR version:

Just because you let your clients believe their money is FDIC insured, doesn't make it so.
 
2022-07-06 2:01:27 PM  

ChibiDebuHage: Fireproof: edmo: The money went somewhere...

It still kind of blows my mind that Farkers were saying this over and over during the 2008 crash, yet I, a 22-year-old with no finance/business background, understood perfectly where the money went. Let me explain it with an example:

Let's say you spent $2,000 on an NFT of a disinterested primate. Now the person who sold it to you has $2,000 cash and you have an NFT worth an equal amount of money. In some sense, it's like you still have the $2,000.

Then let's say the market value of that NFT goes down to $10 and we're sure it will never come back. The $1,990 in value that it lost is G-O-N-E. The guy who sold it to you still has $2,000, but $1,990 worth of value has still disappeared from the system.

THIS.

Also, people don't understand that when the business news sometimes talks about "billions" or "trillions" disappearing in a crash, often they were only imaginary to begin with.

For example, let's say I had some authentic Fark t-shirts, and through some clever use of Youtube infleuncers and Matt Damon, over the span of a few months I repeatedly manage to sell them each for $10,000 to some suckers. Meanwhile, let's say 100,000 other people out there have authentic Fark t-shirts and are quietly HOLDnig as they watch the market explode.

The talking head on the business news would say, "BREAKING! New Fark t-shirt business sector is now worth a staggering (100,000 x $10,000 = $1,000,000,000 ) A BILLION DOLLARS!

Now let's say the economy goes bad, and many of the authentic Fark Tshirt holders decide to sell at once, collapsing the value of the tshirts to $10.

The same talking heads on the business news would now say, "BREAKING! Nearly a BILLION dollars has been lost in the authentic Fark t-shirt business sector!!!"

Predictably, some people would start to say, "But where did that billion dollars go??!?!". NO! In fact, it was fantasy all along.


wilwheaton.typepad.comView Full Size

(with link goodness - not mine, I just remember the very brief moment in time)
 
2022-07-06 2:40:51 PM  

Fireproof: edmo: The money went somewhere...

It still kind of blows my mind that Farkers were saying this over and over during the 2008 crash, yet I, a 22-year-old with no finance/business background, understood perfectly where the money went. Let me explain it with an example:

Let's say you spent $2,000 on an NFT of a disinterested primate. Now the person who sold it to you has $2,000 cash and you have an NFT worth an equal amount of money. In some sense, it's like you still have the $2,000.

Then let's say the market value of that NFT goes down to $10 and we're sure it will never come back. The $1,990 in value that it lost is G-O-N-E. The guy who sold it to you still has $2,000, but $1,990 worth of value has still disappeared from the system.


So I buy the weary anthropoid for $2000, I have what exactly? Thanks to whatever gas fees it certainly wont be worth the original $2000 even if I truly believe that your new collection of fiat currency and my jaded hominoid are really equal and not imaginary equal.
 
2022-07-06 4:31:34 PM  

FormlessOne: I'm genuinely curious - does their cryptocurrency actually count as an asset or a liability when it comes to bankruptcy? Is the cryptocurrency treated as an equity security, like shares?


You're conflating two different things.

The crypto currency it has on hand which is theirs -- not a client's -- is an asset.

The liabilities are what's owed to creditors, whether that's crypto, cash, property, etc.
 
2022-07-06 5:08:37 PM  

thornhill: FormlessOne: I'm genuinely curious - does their cryptocurrency actually count as an asset or a liability when it comes to bankruptcy? Is the cryptocurrency treated as an equity security, like shares?

You're conflating two different things.

The crypto currency it has on hand which is theirs -- not a client's -- is an asset.

The liabilities are what's owed to creditors, whether that's crypto, cash, property, etc.


I'm not surprised - I'm truly unsure as to how it would be handled.
 
2022-07-06 6:16:40 PM  

FormlessOne: thornhill: FormlessOne: I'm genuinely curious - does their cryptocurrency actually count as an asset or a liability when it comes to bankruptcy? Is the cryptocurrency treated as an equity security, like shares?

You're conflating two different things.

The crypto currency it has on hand which is theirs -- not a client's -- is an asset.

The liabilities are what's owed to creditors, whether that's crypto, cash, property, etc.

I'm not surprised - I'm truly unsure as to how it would be handled.


If you're coinbase then it would be like this according to your TOS...

Coinbase wrote: "Because custodially held crypto assets may be considered to be the property of a bankruptcy estate, in the event of a bankruptcy, the crypto assets we hold in custody on behalf of our customers could be subject to bankruptcy proceedings and such customers could be treated as our general unsecured creditors."

https://twitter.com/TheWinklerGroup/status/1524138329633132545
 
2022-07-06 7:51:39 PM  

erktrek: FormlessOne: thornhill: FormlessOne: I'm genuinely curious - does their cryptocurrency actually count as an asset or a liability when it comes to bankruptcy? Is the cryptocurrency treated as an equity security, like shares?

You're conflating two different things.

The crypto currency it has on hand which is theirs -- not a client's -- is an asset.

The liabilities are what's owed to creditors, whether that's crypto, cash, property, etc.

I'm not surprised - I'm truly unsure as to how it would be handled.

If you're coinbase then it would be like this according to your TOS...

Coinbase wrote: "Because custodially held crypto assets may be considered to be the property of a bankruptcy estate, in the event of a bankruptcy, the crypto assets we hold in custody on behalf of our customers could be subject to bankruptcy proceedings and such customers could be treated as our general unsecured creditors."

https://twitter.com/TheWinklerGroup/status/1524138329633132545


Ouch. They're screwed.
 
2022-07-06 11:29:54 PM  

FormlessOne: I'm genuinely curious - does their cryptocurrency actually count as an asset or a liability when it comes to bankruptcy? Is the cryptocurrency treated as an equity security, like shares?


From a tax perspective, it's real property when disclosed to the IRS. From a purely accounting perspective, there is no difference between being an art broker, a house flipper, or a crypto trader. All of those things require dollars up front to buy a thing, and your plan for profitability is to sell that thing to someone else at a higher price than you paid to obtain and maintain it. For very short term holders, it's gain on sale of capital assets taxed at ordinary income rates.

For the brokerages, crypto holdings are a liability. They are holding someone else's thing and using it to generate profit for themselves. But it's an unsecured liability, so if the brokerage goes tits up, you're almost last in line to be paid. The Roosevelt administration had some really spiffy ideas on making deposits protected in the 1930s, but fark that idea. Techbros know better.
 
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