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(Twitter)   Slack is going to become as hated at work as open-plan offices   (twitter.com) divider line
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2108 clicks; posted to Business » on 04 Jul 2022 at 10:05 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-07-04 9:02:24 AM  
Original Tweet:

 
2022-07-04 9:17:17 AM  
64.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2022-07-04 9:18:55 AM  
Isn't it already?
 
2022-07-04 9:28:40 AM  
This is why I work in kitchens. My productivity can be measured immediately, in actual weight and volume, as well as by revenue generated by the hour, and with customer comment cards. My meetings consist of telling folks what we have on hand, what we are out of, a taste of new menu items so they know what they're serving, and during the day, keeping my crew motivated by glowing them up when they kick ass. Our 'team building workshops' are after hours, at a bar, and among other cooks and chefs to share war stories or hook up with each other's staff.

Booze and enthusiastic consensual nookie are all cooks need to get their fight on the next day. Come to us, and let us teach you our wyrding ways.
 
2022-07-04 9:47:32 AM  

hubiestubert: This is why I work in kitchens. My productivity can be measured immediately, in actual weight and volume, as well as by revenue generated by the hour, and with customer comment cards. My meetings consist of telling folks what we have on hand, what we are out of, a taste of new menu items so they know what they're serving, and during the day, keeping my crew motivated by glowing them up when they kick ass. Our 'team building workshops' are after hours, at a bar, and among other cooks and chefs to share war stories or hook up with each other's staff.

Booze and enthusiastic consensual nookie are all cooks need to get their fight on the next day. Come to us, and let us teach you our wyrding ways.


There's not a lot I miss about waiting tables, but the drunken casual hookups were a lot of fun.
 
2022-07-04 10:12:51 AM  
Like anything else, the internet was a good idea until people got involved.
 
2022-07-04 10:14:09 AM  

ImpendingCynic: Like anything else, the internet was a good idea until people got involved.


Eternal September.
 
2022-07-04 10:16:45 AM  
I only respond to emails, texts, etc that are either from my program manager or are related to my teams project goals. Otherwise, people have learned that they have to physically walk to my office to communicate with me. Being "difficult to reach" has eliminated most pointless distractions and helps me maintain focus and productivity.
 
2022-07-04 10:17:48 AM  
Companies are always trying to get their employees to use their chat apps, but 99.95% of messages people send aren't safe for company computers.
 
2022-07-04 10:18:56 AM  
Things go in cycles. Corporate IM has been around in some form since the early 2000's. Its use has ebbed and flowed for decades. Along the way, different companies have tried, and mostly failed, to become "the app" that everyone trends towards.

I think Teams is going to be the winner simply because it's part of the M365 license and it's good enough for most companies. Those who want to go balls out with integration and automation will pick something else. The other 95% of companies will use Teams just like they do every other Office app - taking advantage of 20% of the functionality - and call it a day.
 
2022-07-04 10:27:28 AM  

valkore: Things go in cycles. Corporate IM has been around in some form since the early 2000's. Its use has ebbed and flowed for decades. Along the way, different companies have tried, and mostly failed, to become "the app" that everyone trends towards.

I think Teams is going to be the winner simply because it's part of the M365 license and it's good enough for most companies. Those who want to go balls out with integration and automation will pick something else. The other 95% of companies will use Teams just like they do every other Office app - taking advantage of 20% of the functionality - and call it a day.


Yeah I have already encountered an IT team that wanted us to use Teams instead of Slack, because it's part of the M$FT contract.  I understand that reasoning but used Slack anyway.  Other thing you will hear is how all the proprietary knowledge must be "on site" and therefore you can't use any modern tools like Slack.
 
2022-07-04 10:31:28 AM  

aimtastic: hubiestubert: This is why I work in kitchens. My productivity can be measured immediately, in actual weight and volume, as well as by revenue generated by the hour, and with customer comment cards. My meetings consist of telling folks what we have on hand, what we are out of, a taste of new menu items so they know what they're serving, and during the day, keeping my crew motivated by glowing them up when they kick ass. Our 'team building workshops' are after hours, at a bar, and among other cooks and chefs to share war stories or hook up with each other's staff.

Booze and enthusiastic consensual nookie are all cooks need to get their fight on the next day. Come to us, and let us teach you our wyrding ways.

There's not a lot I miss about waiting tables, but the drunken casual hookups were a lot of fun.


And the cocaine.
 
2022-07-04 10:31:40 AM  
We use Teams.  This is why I own shares of Microsoft.  They are a money factory.
 
2022-07-04 10:33:49 AM  

casey17: aimtastic: hubiestubert: This is why I work in kitchens. My productivity can be measured immediately, in actual weight and volume, as well as by revenue generated by the hour, and with customer comment cards. My meetings consist of telling folks what we have on hand, what we are out of, a taste of new menu items so they know what they're serving, and during the day, keeping my crew motivated by glowing them up when they kick ass. Our 'team building workshops' are after hours, at a bar, and among other cooks and chefs to share war stories or hook up with each other's staff.

Booze and enthusiastic consensual nookie are all cooks need to get their fight on the next day. Come to us, and let us teach you our wyrding ways.

There's not a lot I miss about waiting tables, but the drunken casual hookups were a lot of fun.

And the cocaine.


My favorite job was working at a bar.  I worked door and cooked.  Not a chef. A cook.   The worst part was breaking up fights.   The best part was the shift drinks and your coworkers.  People who work in bars generally have a good attitude about life.
 
2022-07-04 10:37:34 AM  
I have notifications perpetually silenced at this point unless I am aware of an actual Right Now problem. Otherwise, I check messages at regular intervals, when I have a good spot to stop. No one has complained in the 4 years I've been at this job (data work).
 
2022-07-04 10:38:56 AM  
These hot takes are really silly.  Slack is a useful tool that is only as annoying as you make it. I run a research lab and we use Slack to communicate.  I only expect my team to be available to respond to messages during their normal work hours, and while we have a few channels for special-interest topics or announcements, people are free to mute those if they are not relevant.  Overall its been quite useful during the pandemic when some members of the team wanted to analyze their data or write papers from home rather than in the lab.

Micromanaging and extreme control are inherent to the office culture and to the management, not to the tool.  If Slack and Teams fall, some other horrible method will arise to take their place I am sure.  Welcome to 2022, and set some friggin boundaries.
 
2022-07-04 10:40:28 AM  
I'm currently at step #2.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-07-04 10:44:33 AM  
But it feels so good to remove the app when you quit.
 
2022-07-04 10:50:09 AM  
I remember trying such things at work with open chat channels with just three or four people and that didn't work.

Offices are notorious for being populated  with people who don't even look at their email. If they don't have time for that they don't have time for all that other crap.
 
2022-07-04 10:59:30 AM  

Hate Tank: valkore: Things go in cycles. Corporate IM has been around in some form since the early 2000's. Its use has ebbed and flowed for decades. Along the way, different companies have tried, and mostly failed, to become "the app" that everyone trends towards.

I think Teams is going to be the winner simply because it's part of the M365 license and it's good enough for most companies. Those who want to go balls out with integration and automation will pick something else. The other 95% of companies will use Teams just like they do every other Office app - taking advantage of 20% of the functionality - and call it a day.

Yeah I have already encountered an IT team that wanted us to use Teams instead of Slack, because it's part of the M$FT contract.  I understand that reasoning but used Slack anyway.  Other thing you will hear is how all the proprietary knowledge must be "on site" and therefore you can't use any modern tools like Slack.


Some of that isnt necessarily due to just "proprietary" knowledge, but also due to export restrictions related to the International Traffic in Arms Regulation that wont allow you to store any technical data in unapproved countries.  Depends on your industry of course....
 
2022-07-04 11:04:16 AM  

Notabunny: I only respond to emails, texts, etc that are either from my program manager or are related to my teams project goals. Otherwise, people have learned that they have to physically walk to my office to communicate with me. Being "difficult to reach" has eliminated most pointless distractions and helps me maintain focus and productivity.


I'm "remote" (go into a satellite office every few weeks and spend 2 days at corporate every quarter). Since I started recently, I had a phone conversation with all of my stakeholders to explain that:

1) I will not respond immediately to their email. It will be 24-72 hours depending on how busy I am.

2) I will respond to a Teams message at the end of the day. Maybe faster if it is important.

3) If it is a conversation with more than 2 people or more than 2-3 responses back and forth, call me or conference call me.

I've been able to, in past jobs, create an expectation that I'm hard to reach and if you really need me, you'll make an effort. I won't waste your time if you don't waste mine and conversations don't happen over email.

Nothing is as bad as a company culture where you juggle multiple conversations over email all day. Slack (or Teams) is a much preferred alternative.
 
2022-07-04 11:09:39 AM  
Internal communication at big companies is difficult, and often over complicated. News at 11.
 
2022-07-04 11:11:08 AM  
We're a services group in a company of 100K+, and Slack gets used by people who want to get special treatment and try to circumvent the usual processes for carrying out projects.  The platform we do our work in has an integrated CRM tool with chat and ticketing, "but I'm already signed into Slack so I thought I'd DM you instead!"   I've told all my directs to ignore Slack messaging as a result.
 
2022-07-04 11:20:14 AM  
From a principal engineer's perspective: company chat apps are TERRIBLE. People use them to try and go around established processes all the time.

"Hey, I know I should open a support ticket with IT but since you're an admin could you just..."
"I know you're not in IT but can you help me? I am having a problem with..."
"Service X is down. Fix it."
"I can't login to my email."
"The VPN isn't working."
"My wife is banging my best friend."
"My AWS creds don't work! Get me back in."

Of course, if I was in an office folks would be approaching me in person to get me to take care of their support issues DESPITE me telling them time and time again to send it to Helpdesk. So, I guess the real problem are other people.
 
2022-07-04 11:29:11 AM  

brokenbiscuits: From a principal engineer's perspective: company chat apps are TERRIBLE. People use them to try and go around established processes all the time.

"Hey, I know I should open a support ticket with IT but since you're an admin could you just..."
"I know you're not in IT but can you help me? I am having a problem with..."
"Service X is down. Fix it."
"I can't login to my email."
"The VPN isn't working."
"My wife is banging my best friend."
"My AWS creds don't work! Get me back in."

Of course, if I was in an office folks would be approaching me in person to get me to take care of their support issues DESPITE me telling them time and time again to send it to Helpdesk. So, I guess the real problem are other people.


The answer to this seems very obvious, at least to me.  The IT team should not be on Slack, or they should have a completely different and segregated Slack channel from the rest of the company.  Why is this not more common?
 
2022-07-04 11:50:54 AM  

valkore: Things go in cycles. Corporate IM has been around in some form since the early 2000's. Its use has ebbed and flowed for decades. Along the way, different companies have tried, and mostly failed, to become "the app" that everyone trends towards.

I think Teams is going to be the winner simply because it's part of the M365 license and it's good enough for most companies. Those who want to go balls out with integration and automation will pick something else. The other 95% of companies will use Teams just like they do every other Office app - taking advantage of 20% of the functionality - and call it a day.


Slack is fine because you can treat every chat room or conversation as "I need to read this" or "This is completely inessential, I am going to mute it."

Teams is awful because it builds too much into the app. Also the "alerts" don't tell you how many things are important to look at - my "alert" count is almost always 9 because of activity I don't care about.

The integration of teams with whether someone is in a virtual meeting is pretty good. Slack should do that with Bluejeans.
 
2022-07-04 11:59:17 AM  
I already hate TEAMS for anything but meetings. People sending messages through Teams that should be in email is the bane of my existence.
 
2022-07-04 12:14:03 PM  

Altman: brokenbiscuits: From a principal engineer's perspective: company chat apps are TERRIBLE. People use them to try and go around established processes all the time.

"Hey, I know I should open a support ticket with IT but since you're an admin could you just..."
"I know you're not in IT but can you help me? I am having a problem with..."
"Service X is down. Fix it."
"I can't login to my email."
"The VPN isn't working."
"My wife is banging my best friend."
"My AWS creds don't work! Get me back in."

Of course, if I was in an office folks would be approaching me in person to get me to take care of their support issues DESPITE me telling them time and time again to send it to Helpdesk. So, I guess the real problem are other people.

The answer to this seems very obvious, at least to me.  The IT team should not be on Slack, or they should have a completely different and segregated Slack channel from the rest of the company.  Why is this not more common?


I should have mentioned: I'm on the security team, not IT. People KNOW there's a proper channel and process to follow but everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, thinks they are the exception who gets to ignore IT's helpdesk altogether and randomize an unrelated engineer to fix their issues.
 
2022-07-04 12:17:35 PM  

cefm: I already hate TEAMS for anything but meetings. People sending messages through Teams that should be in email is the bane of my existence.


Teams is awesome. It now has pre-populated replies for you to send. No need to type anything.
 
2022-07-04 12:19:30 PM  

Altman: These hot takes are really silly.  Slack is a useful tool that is only as annoying as you make it. I run a research lab and we use Slack to communicate.  I only expect my team to be available to respond to messages during their normal work hours, and while we have a few channels for special-interest topics or announcements, people are free to mute those if they are not relevant.  Overall its been quite useful during the pandemic when some members of the team wanted to analyze their data or write papers from home rather than in the lab.

Micromanaging and extreme control are inherent to the office culture and to the management, not to the tool.  If Slack and Teams fall, some other horrible method will arise to take their place I am sure.  Welcome to 2022, and set some friggin boundaries.


Yeah, Slack is fine. It's nothing like a physical open-plan office.
 
2022-07-04 12:20:27 PM  
What really bugs me are people using Slack and Teams to post must-have technical information on 50 different channels with no rhyme or reason, and now I've got spend 2 hours in the morning piecing it all together, or trying to dig through posts from 3 weeks ago...
 
2022-07-04 12:39:11 PM  
Small company with Teams, only three channels.
At least the requests I receive through it are documented to everyone else on Teams.
Better than a post-it on my keyboard.
 
2022-07-04 12:40:11 PM  

Notabunny: I only respond to emails, texts, etc that are either from my program manager or are related to my teams project goals. Otherwise, people have learned that they have to physically walk to my office to communicate with me. Being "difficult to reach" has eliminated most pointless distractions and helps me maintain focus and productivity.


Same. Except I work from home.
 
2022-07-04 12:43:11 PM  
I like how my organization set up Teams.  Messages are only retained for 30 days, then they're simply gone.  It's for quick conversations, not a replacement for email.

For things that come in "wrong", Teams has integration with Outlook so you can quickly make an email or a task from it.  If you want to keep it long-term, that's your easiest option.
 
2022-07-04 1:04:12 PM  
It's the corporate phenomenon where an attribute goes from the product into the title or slogan. Quality goes into the slogan, because it came out of the product.
 
2022-07-04 1:18:15 PM  

ImpendingCynic: Like anything else, the internet was a good idea until peoplepointy-haired boses got involved.


FTFY.
 
2022-07-04 1:23:25 PM  

Altman: These hot takes are really silly.  Slack is a useful tool that is only as annoying as you make it. I run a research lab and we use Slack to communicate.  I only expect my team to be available to respond to messages during their normal work hours, and while we have a few channels for special-interest topics or announcements, people are free to mute those if they are not relevant.  Overall its been quite useful during the pandemic when some members of the team wanted to analyze their data or write papers from home rather than in the lab.

Micromanaging and extreme control are inherent to the office culture and to the management, not to the tool.  If Slack and Teams fall, some other horrible method will arise to take their place I am sure.  Welcome to 2022, and set some friggin boundaries.


If only it were true that it "is only as annoying as you make it". It's as annoying as your co-workers make it. It's annoying as your boss makes it. It's as annoying as the dozens department heads, each trying to create more channels and meetings for their pet projects to demonstrate how much they're team players fostering a community of collaboration, make it.
 
2022-07-04 1:32:09 PM  

Enigmamf: ImpendingCynic: Like anything else, the internet was a good idea until peoplepointy-haired boses got involved.

FTFY.


"People" was correct.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/eternal-september
 
2022-07-04 1:35:03 PM  

NoWay3rdWay: I liked Slack when it used to be called IRC.


In the dialup days my company setup an irc server for the call center people to communicate between levels and departments while on the phone. It worked great for about 2 months then it devolved into your typical irc server with mIRC macros and was shut down.

A year later they tried another messaging program and that flamed out for much the same reason.

Today my wife uses teams and it works fine for them because it's a small company.
 
2022-07-04 1:39:53 PM  
Slack is going to become as hated at work as open-plan offices

Fixed the headline for ya', Subbie. You're welcome.
 
2022-07-04 2:38:32 PM  
I don't get the strong personal attachment to these tools, they are all largely what you make of it. I just hate changing to whatever the new tool is each time some middle manager wants to add a bulletpoint to their resume.

The most amazing thing about Slack is that anyone pays money for it. I really would rather use IRC.
 
2022-07-04 2:38:34 PM  

Sum Dum Gai: I like how my organization set up Teams.  Messages are only retained for 30 days, then they're simply gone.  It's for quick conversations, not a replacement for email.

For things that come in "wrong", Teams has integration with Outlook so you can quickly make an email or a task from it.  If you want to keep it long-term, that's your easiest option.


Teams is just glorified Sharepoint and comes with all the garbage that entails.
 
2022-07-04 2:40:39 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I don't get the strong personal attachment to these tools, they are all largely what you make of it. I just hate changing to whatever the new tool is each time some middle manager wants to add a bulletpoint to their resume.

The most amazing thing about Slack is that anyone pays money for it. I really would rather use IRC.


Slack is IRC under the covers, they just blocked their gateways a few years back to hide that. kinda the same way they get very surprised when you figure out they have hidden admin APIs when working with their GUIs. Once they figured out how people were exploiting their hidden APIs at my workplace they changed how they issued Oauth tokens to stop users from being able to use them.
 
2022-07-04 2:48:53 PM  

brokenbiscuits: Altman: brokenbiscuits: From a principal engineer's perspective: company chat apps are TERRIBLE. People use them to try and go around established processes all the time.

"Hey, I know I should open a support ticket with IT but since you're an admin could you just..."
"I know you're not in IT but can you help me? I am having a problem with..."
"Service X is down. Fix it."
"I can't login to my email."
"The VPN isn't working."
"My wife is banging my best friend."
"My AWS creds don't work! Get me back in."

Of course, if I was in an office folks would be approaching me in person to get me to take care of their support issues DESPITE me telling them time and time again to send it to Helpdesk. So, I guess the real problem are other people.

The answer to this seems very obvious, at least to me.  The IT team should not be on Slack, or they should have a completely different and segregated Slack channel from the rest of the company.  Why is this not more common?

I should have mentioned: I'm on the security team, not IT. People KNOW there's a proper channel and process to follow but everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, thinks they are the exception who gets to ignore IT's helpdesk altogether and randomize an unrelated engineer to fix their issues.


Don't answer them. That's how you make them go away and find some other person to help them. Used to have a coworker who was famous because if you came to him for a problem he could probably fix it, but he expected you to tell him everything you had done on your own to prove it was worth his time. Even if it was something he was the only one who could fix if you didn't come to him with a ticket where you documented that you did all the basic troubleshooting steps he'd just ignore you. At the time everyone thought he was just an arse, when I got put in his position I realized he was just doing triage from all the junk that kept being thrown his way.
 
2022-07-04 3:18:58 PM  

huma474: Teams is just glorified Sharepoint


You're using it wrong.
 
2022-07-04 3:19:30 PM  

hubiestubert: This is why I work in kitchens. My productivity can be measured immediately, in actual weight and volume, as well as by revenue generated by the hour, and with customer comment cards. My meetings consist of telling folks what we have on hand, what we are out of, a taste of new menu items so they know what they're serving, and during the day, keeping my crew motivated by glowing them up when they kick ass. Our 'team building workshops' are after hours, at a bar, and among other cooks and chefs to share war stories or hook up with each other's staff.

Booze and enthusiastic consensual nookie are all cooks need to get their fight on the next day. Come to us, and let us teach you our wyrding ways.


ah, waitresses, with their low standards, loose morals, daddy issues, substance abuse...   god damn those were the days
 
2022-07-04 3:22:15 PM  

neaorin: huma474: Teams is just glorified Sharepoint

You're using it wrong.


not really. The license to use teams is a Sharepoint license. MS just forced Skype and Sharepoint together to make teams when they saw Slack was eating their lunch as everyone walked away from MOC
 
2022-07-04 3:29:10 PM  

huma474: Fark_Guy_Rob: I don't get the strong personal attachment to these tools, they are all largely what you make of it. I just hate changing to whatever the new tool is each time some middle manager wants to add a bulletpoint to their resume.

The most amazing thing about Slack is that anyone pays money for it. I really would rather use IRC.

Slack is IRC under the covers, they just blocked their gateways a few years back to hide that. kinda the same way they get very surprised when you figure out they have hidden admin APIs when working with their GUIs. Once they figured out how people were exploiting their hidden APIs at my workplace they changed how they issued Oauth tokens to stop users from being able to use them.


I thoughtSlack was pretty similar to IRC.  Guess I'm not surprised that it's just a UI on top of MIRC.

Slack works well when it's used appropriately.  Just like any productivity tool.  It works poorly in an office with poor organization and communication.
 
2022-07-04 3:32:42 PM  

Thank You Black Jesus!: ah, waitresses, with their low standards, loose morals, daddy issues, substance abuse...   god damn those were the days


In reality, it's not that great.

There is this great waitress at an old regular pub of mine here (Tel Aviv). Very friendly, happy, and always gave the regulars some extra beers here and there. She's around 30.

In the past year, she started doing coke. A lot. She was a little bit overweight, but not terribly so. Now, she's lost so much weight that she almost looks anorexic. And she's complains more and more about not having enough money even though she makes a wicked high amount of tips (I know some of her friends and others who used to work there).

It's kinda sad, actually.
 
2022-07-04 3:51:59 PM  

Lexx: huma474: Fark_Guy_Rob: I don't get the strong personal attachment to these tools, they are all largely what you make of it. I just hate changing to whatever the new tool is each time some middle manager wants to add a bulletpoint to their resume.

The most amazing thing about Slack is that anyone pays money for it. I really would rather use IRC.

Slack is IRC under the covers, they just blocked their gateways a few years back to hide that. kinda the same way they get very surprised when you figure out they have hidden admin APIs when working with their GUIs. Once they figured out how people were exploiting their hidden APIs at my workplace they changed how they issued Oauth tokens to stop users from being able to use them.

I thoughtSlack was pretty similar to IRC.  Guess I'm not surprised that it's just a UI on top of MIRC.

Slack works well when it's used appropriately.  Just like any productivity tool.  It works poorly in an office with poor organization and communication.


They had an XMPP Gateway until right before they went public and started offering their Enterprise solution.
 
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