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(CNBC)   American companies wring the lifeblood from US citizens in ways that are illegal in most of the civilized world, and profit from exporting the output. This is not a metaphor   (cnbc.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Blood donation, Blood, Blood plasma, Blood bank, HIV, Plasmapheresis, Donation, social work  
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2093 clicks; posted to Business » on 01 Jul 2022 at 11:35 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



48 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-07-01 10:52:46 AM  
I struggle with paid donations. On the one hand, it incentivizes people to donate, on the other, it tends to prey on the poor. I'm fine with blood being a paid donation, since you replenish it routinely. Same with plasma and bone marrow. MUCH less fine with paid living organ donations. There are villages in India where most of the people only have one kidney.

I do think donations after death should compensate the family, as absolutely everyone else in the body part business is in it for the money. But even there, debate can exist. If a poor family has a loved one on life support, it might influence their decisions when they know that they'll receive thousands for donating the organs (that the hospital will likely take with bills and fees).
 
2022-07-01 10:58:59 AM  
So we are now at the same place that East Germany was in the mid-80s.

Let's just hope that our blood is clean and does not give other people an incurable disease, because that would absolutely decimate our blood industry.
 
2022-07-01 11:13:38 AM  
FTFA:

Blood makes up 2.69% of U.S. exports, according to the Census Bureau.

Is this correct? It seems like an implausibly large fraction.

In other news, the census bureau tracks imports and exports. I guess they need something to do the other nine years of each decade.
 
2022-07-01 11:56:46 AM  

brachiopod: FTFA:

Blood makes up 2.69% of U.S. exports, according to the Census Bureau.

Is this correct? It seems like an implausibly large fraction.

In other news, the census bureau tracks imports and exports. I guess they need something to do the other nine years of each decade.


2.6% of....... ???

Volume?
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-07-01 12:10:10 PM  

Private_Citizen: I struggle with paid donations. On the one hand, it incentivizes people to donate, on the other, it tends to prey on the poor. I'm fine with blood being a paid donation, since you replenish it routinely. Same with plasma and bone marrow. MUCH less fine with paid living organ donations. There are villages in India where most of the people only have one kidney.

I do think donations after death should compensate the family, as absolutely everyone else in the body part business is in it for the money. But even there, debate can exist. If a poor family has a loved one on life support, it might influence their decisions when they know that they'll receive thousands for donating the organs (that the hospital will likely take with bills and fees).


Jizz is the only thing a true farker donates
 
2022-07-01 12:14:44 PM  
They left out the Red Cross: I donate platelets once a month and I get paid two 2.5 oz bags of Cheez-its.  By the end of the year, it's almost a full box!
 
2022-07-01 12:32:40 PM  
And here I am donating it for free like a sucker.

// That's a lie, I do it for the cookies and juice.
 
2022-07-01 12:53:23 PM  
I believe in the US, paid blood/plasma donations can only be used for research or cosmetics. Never for human transfusion. The risk is higher as donors have incentive to lie about needles, diseases, etc.

So your snack-based donations are still vitally important.
 
2022-07-01 1:08:27 PM  

brachiopod: FTFA:

Blood makes up 2.69% of U.S. exports, according to the Census Bureau.

Is this correct? It seems like an implausibly large fraction.


For some values of correct. The category includes animal blood, anitsera, and, notably, vaccines.
 
2022-07-01 1:08:31 PM  

Private_Citizen: I struggle with paid donations. On the one hand, it incentivizes people to donate, on the other, it tends to prey on the poor. I'm fine with blood being a paid donation, since you replenish it routinely. Same with plasma and bone marrow. MUCH less fine with paid living organ donations. There are villages in India where most of the people only have one kidney.

I do think donations after death should compensate the family, as absolutely everyone else in the body part business is in it for the money. But even there, debate can exist. If a poor family has a loved one on life support, it might influence their decisions when they know that they'll receive thousands for donating the organs (that the hospital will likely take with bills and fees).


IANAL, but I recall hearing somewhere (perhaps one of my many podcasts) that legally, you do not own your body.  The fact that you cannot profit from selling parts of it, or selling access to organs (sex work), and have no legal IP rights to your DNA sequence flow from that base.

Would love to hear from attorneys if there are any precedents establishing this one way or another.
 
2022-07-01 1:09:04 PM  
Oh, oops. Too quick on the button there. Source: https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/export/usa/all/show/2020/
 
2022-07-01 1:10:32 PM  
Being the only donor in a Profitable supply chain always seemed a little off and weird to me
 
2022-07-01 1:15:06 PM  
Sorry, my gay blood is too gay.
 
2022-07-01 1:16:57 PM  
I tried to donate blood once.  I nearly passed out (I think I was actually turning blue).

I guess I don't have any to spare.
 
2022-07-01 1:45:04 PM  

Manfred J. Hattan: Oh, oops. Too quick on the button there. Source: https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/export/usa/all/show/2020/


Export: 3.89% - Crude Petroleum
Import: 3.34% - Crude Petroleum

wat?
 
2022-07-01 2:02:13 PM  

austerity101: Sorry, my gay blood is too gay.


Gay blood is OK now. You just have to be going through a slump.
 
2022-07-01 2:07:27 PM  

nytmare: Manfred J. Hattan: Oh, oops. Too quick on the button there. Source: https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/export/usa/all/show/2020/

Export: 3.89% - Crude Petroleum
Import: 3.34% - Crude Petroleum

wat?


Remember that we're a big net importer. So we actually imported more crude than we exported ($75.1 B vs $52.3 B), but the percentages work out that way since the total imports are so much higher.
 
2022-07-01 2:40:06 PM  

Izunbacol: Private_Citizen: I struggle with paid donations. On the one hand, it incentivizes people to donate, on the other, it tends to prey on the poor. I'm fine with blood being a paid donation, since you replenish it routinely. Same with plasma and bone marrow. MUCH less fine with paid living organ donations. There are villages in India where most of the people only have one kidney.

I do think donations after death should compensate the family, as absolutely everyone else in the body part business is in it for the money. But even there, debate can exist. If a poor family has a loved one on life support, it might influence their decisions when they know that they'll receive thousands for donating the organs (that the hospital will likely take with bills and fees).

IANAL, but I recall hearing somewhere (perhaps one of my many podcasts) that legally, you do not own your body.  The fact that you cannot profit from selling parts of it, or selling access to organs (sex work), and have no legal IP rights to your DNA sequence flow from that base.

Would love to hear from attorneys if there are any precedents establishing this one way or another.


and this is the world we live in...information from joe rogan flows like the river and becomes fact by secondhand spreading.
 
2022-07-01 2:42:05 PM  

Manfred J. Hattan: nytmare: Manfred J. Hattan: Oh, oops. Too quick on the button there. Source: https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/export/usa/all/show/2020/

Export: 3.89% - Crude Petroleum
Import: 3.34% - Crude Petroleum

wat?

Remember that we're a big net importer. So we actually imported more crude than we exported ($75.1 B vs $52.3 B), but the percentages work out that way since the total imports are so much higher.


Yeah but it's a commodity so why do we both import and export? Should be one or the other.
 
2022-07-01 2:42:10 PM  
The United States is the 2nd largest goods exporter in the world. U.S. goods exports to the world totaled $1.6 trillion in 2019. https://ustr.gov/countries-regions#

So 2.69% would be 0.0269 * 1,600,000,000,000 = $43 billion.

The article says:

The North American blood market was valued at $3.3 billion in 2021, according to Global Market Insights Inc.

So yea, bullshiat article is bullshiat. That's the problem with Journalism majors, like the author. The calculator is simply too heavy for them to pick up.  https://www.cnbc.com/andrea-miller/
 
2022-07-01 3:30:24 PM  

nytmare: Manfred J. Hattan: nytmare: Manfred J. Hattan: Oh, oops. Too quick on the button there. Source: https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/export/usa/all/show/2020/

Export: 3.89% - Crude Petroleum
Import: 3.34% - Crude Petroleum

wat?

Remember that we're a big net importer. So we actually imported more crude than we exported ($75.1 B vs $52.3 B), but the percentages work out that way since the total imports are so much higher.

Yeah but it's a commodity so why do we both import and export? Should be one or the other.


It's a commodity but not really. If you follow oil prices, you'll see at least three or four different indices - e.g. the West Texas Intermediate, Brent crude, and sweet light crude. It mostly has to do with the amount of other chemicals - sulfates, for example - in the crude; that's kind of what makes it "crude" in the first place. Plus the dynamics between drillers and refiners aren't perfectly synced up. Maybe on a given day ExxonMobil has a bunch of excess crude that they can't store and they sell it to a Canadian refiner, and a few weeks later the market situation changes and it makes more sense for them (Exxon) to buy crude instead.
 
2022-07-01 3:34:59 PM  

nytmare: Manfred J. Hattan: nytmare: Manfred J. Hattan: Oh, oops. Too quick on the button there. Source: https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/export/usa/all/show/2020/

Export: 3.89% - Crude Petroleum
Import: 3.34% - Crude Petroleum

wat?

Remember that we're a big net importer. So we actually imported more crude than we exported ($75.1 B vs $52.3 B), but the percentages work out that way since the total imports are so much higher.

Yeah but it's a commodity so why do we both import and export? Should be one or the other.


It's a semi-commodity. We have some of the lightest, lowest-sulfer oil in the world. But we also have some of the most complex refineries in the world. So we bring in heavy glop from Canada (that's about half the total; some of the refineries were designed for even heavier glob from Venezuela) and we export crude to places with simpler refining complexity like Mexico.

There are also some location considerations. Some Mexican crude is produced in the Gulf and it's just as easy to send it to Houston as it to a Mexican refinery. Similarly, some Alaskan oil goes straight to South Korea and Japan (though that's jumped around as a political football). A lot of the Saudi crude goes to the east coast to keep the Texas producers honest.
 
2022-07-01 3:40:46 PM  

Thoreny: So we are now at the same place that East Germany was in the mid-80s.

Let's just hope that our blood is clean and does not give other people an incurable disease, because that would absolutely decimate our blood industry.


But if we screen the blood too much it will shame those with dirty blood.
 
2022-07-01 3:42:51 PM  

Izunbacol: Private_Citizen: I struggle with paid donations. On the one hand, it incentivizes people to donate, on the other, it tends to prey on the poor. I'm fine with blood being a paid donation, since you replenish it routinely. Same with plasma and bone marrow. MUCH less fine with paid living organ donations. There are villages in India where most of the people only have one kidney.

I do think donations after death should compensate the family, as absolutely everyone else in the body part business is in it for the money. But even there, debate can exist. If a poor family has a loved one on life support, it might influence their decisions when they know that they'll receive thousands for donating the organs (that the hospital will likely take with bills and fees).

IANAL, but I recall hearing somewhere (perhaps one of my many podcasts) that legally, you do not own your body.  The fact that you cannot profit from selling parts of it, or selling access to organs (sex work), and have no legal IP rights to your DNA sequence flow from that base.

Would love to hear from attorneys if there are any precedents establishing this one way or another.


This is entirely true.  The government owns 64% of your body.  Facebook, bezos, and the mormons own the rest.
 
2022-07-01 3:46:38 PM  

nytmare: Manfred J. Hattan: Oh, oops. Too quick on the button there. Source: https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/export/usa/all/show/2020/

Export: 3.89% - Crude Petroleum
Import: 3.34% - Crude Petroleum

wat?


Different grades of oil, different companies, different parts of the country.
 
2022-07-01 3:56:31 PM  

nytmare: Manfred J. Hattan: Oh, oops. Too quick on the button there. Source: https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/export/usa/all/show/2020/

Export: 3.89% - Crude Petroleum
Import: 3.34% - Crude Petroleum

wat?


Alaska exports to Asia, Gulf and East Coast import from Mexico and Venezuela.
 
2022-07-01 3:59:56 PM  

Private_Citizen: I struggle with paid donations. On the one hand, it incentivizes people to donate, on the other, it tends to prey on the poor. I'm fine with blood being a paid donation, since you replenish it routinely. Same with plasma and bone marrow. MUCH less fine with paid living organ donations. There are villages in India where most of the people only have one kidney.

I do think donations after death should compensate the family, as absolutely everyone else in the body part business is in it for the money. But even there, debate can exist. If a poor family has a loved one on life support, it might influence their decisions when they know that they'll receive thousands for donating the organs (that the hospital will likely take with bills and fees).


It's just easing us into the eventual vampire apocalypse and transition into cattle.
 
2022-07-01 4:05:09 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: Izunbacol: Private_Citizen: I struggle with paid donations. On the one hand, it incentivizes people to donate, on the other, it tends to prey on the poor. I'm fine with blood being a paid donation, since you replenish it routinely. Same with plasma and bone marrow. MUCH less fine with paid living organ donations. There are villages in India where most of the people only have one kidney.

I do think donations after death should compensate the family, as absolutely everyone else in the body part business is in it for the money. But even there, debate can exist. If a poor family has a loved one on life support, it might influence their decisions when they know that they'll receive thousands for donating the organs (that the hospital will likely take with bills and fees).

IANAL, but I recall hearing somewhere (perhaps one of my many podcasts) that legally, you do not own your body.  The fact that you cannot profit from selling parts of it, or selling access to organs (sex work), and have no legal IP rights to your DNA sequence flow from that base.

Would love to hear from attorneys if there are any precedents establishing this one way or another.

This is entirely true.  The government owns 64% of your body.  Facebook, bezos, and the mormons own the rest.


Wait, what about the stonemasons and lizard people?
 
2022-07-01 4:06:38 PM  
There are plenty of plasma "donation" clinics that pay up to $800-900 a month. They tend to be in the poorer parts of town, and their regular business hours screams "we want the unemployed and under employed."
 
2022-07-01 4:09:20 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-07-01 4:15:15 PM  

Concrete Donkey: AmbassadorBooze: Izunbacol: Private_Citizen: I struggle with paid donations. On the one hand, it incentivizes people to donate, on the other, it tends to prey on the poor. I'm fine with blood being a paid donation, since you replenish it routinely. Same with plasma and bone marrow. MUCH less fine with paid living organ donations. There are villages in India where most of the people only have one kidney.

I do think donations after death should compensate the family, as absolutely everyone else in the body part business is in it for the money. But even there, debate can exist. If a poor family has a loved one on life support, it might influence their decisions when they know that they'll receive thousands for donating the organs (that the hospital will likely take with bills and fees).

IANAL, but I recall hearing somewhere (perhaps one of my many podcasts) that legally, you do not own your body.  The fact that you cannot profit from selling parts of it, or selling access to organs (sex work), and have no legal IP rights to your DNA sequence flow from that base.

Would love to hear from attorneys if there are any precedents establishing this one way or another.

This is entirely true.  The government owns 64% of your body.  Facebook, bezos, and the mormons own the rest.

Wait, what about the stonemasons and lizard people?


They own the bodies of Europeans and south Americans.  Except romanians and people in the city limits of Rio.  Romanians are owned in whole by the vampire clan descended from nosforatu.  Rio was declared a safe zone for humans during the human vs lizard people wars of 32k years ago.  The lizard people won the south american continent though.  Part of the agreement was that the lizard people get south american humans, but they have to keep their existence off the radar for the majority of humans in other farm zones.  There was a small squabble between the bezos and facebook because zuck is half lizard person half android.  But the lizards dont claim zuck so the vampire arbiters said as long as he doesnt use southamerican blood to cool the servers he is in compliance and bezos has no standing against facebook.
 
2022-07-01 5:27:12 PM  
I'm currently waiting to sell plasma so I'm getting a kick, etc.

I farking hate it.  But I really don't have much choice.
 
2022-07-01 5:41:26 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: Izunbacol: Private_Citizen: I struggle with paid donations. On the one hand, it incentivizes people to donate, on the other, it tends to prey on the poor. I'm fine with blood being a paid donation, since you replenish it routinely. Same with plasma and bone marrow. MUCH less fine with paid living organ donations. There are villages in India where most of the people only have one kidney.

I do think donations after death should compensate the family, as absolutely everyone else in the body part business is in it for the money. But even there, debate can exist. If a poor family has a loved one on life support, it might influence their decisions when they know that they'll receive thousands for donating the organs (that the hospital will likely take with bills and fees).

IANAL, but I recall hearing somewhere (perhaps one of my many podcasts) that legally, you do not own your body.  The fact that you cannot profit from selling parts of it, or selling access to organs (sex work), and have no legal IP rights to your DNA sequence flow from that base.

Would love to hear from attorneys if there are any precedents establishing this one way or another.

This is entirely true.  The government owns 64% of your body.  Facebook, bezos, and the mormons own the rest.


Whichever party is stupid enough to claim my liver, no backsies. That thing is AS-IS with no warranty.
 
2022-07-01 5:51:24 PM  

kwirlkarphys: Izunbacol: Private_Citizen: I struggle with paid donations. On the one hand, it incentivizes people to donate, on the other, it tends to prey on the poor. I'm fine with blood being a paid donation, since you replenish it routinely. Same with plasma and bone marrow. MUCH less fine with paid living organ donations. There are villages in India where most of the people only have one kidney.

I do think donations after death should compensate the family, as absolutely everyone else in the body part business is in it for the money. But even there, debate can exist. If a poor family has a loved one on life support, it might influence their decisions when they know that they'll receive thousands for donating the organs (that the hospital will likely take with bills and fees).

IANAL, but I recall hearing somewhere (perhaps one of my many podcasts) that legally, you do not own your body.  The fact that you cannot profit from selling parts of it, or selling access to organs (sex work), and have no legal IP rights to your DNA sequence flow from that base.

Would love to hear from attorneys if there are any precedents establishing this one way or another.

and this is the world we live in...information from joe rogan flows like the river and becomes fact by secondhand spreading.


Has Joe Rogan ever discussed this?  I always got the impression he was more a Howard Stern type of doofus for the too-tight shirt and creatine crowd.

I had to really dig around, but it seemed very "RadioLab," and my hunch was right:

https://radiolab.org/episodes/asking-friend

They're discussing the fact that there's no actual ownership of organs as a side discussion to transplants.

A section of the transcript:

Simon Adler:
He's the guy I ultimately called to try to tease out an answer here, because he's written a lot on the laws surrounding organ transplants. And he said the first thing you've gotta understand ...

Fred Cate:
Well, f- first of all, property is a really special thing in the law.

Narrator:
Code of Laws, by Hammurabi.

Simon Adler:
And by that he means, many of the oldest written laws we have as humans were about protecting property.

Fred Cate:
Historically, protecting property was, you know, very much at the heart of it.

Narrator:
Without witnesses or contracts, he has no legitimate claim.

Simon Adler:
They set out to settle disputes over ownership ...

Narrator:
If an enemy take away from him anything that he had ...

Simon Adler:
... assess damages.

Narrator:
... the broker shall be free of obligation.

Simon Adler:
And over time the number of things the law protects ha- has only grown.

Fred Cate:
You know, intangible things like intellectual property, you know, I can own a copyright now. And so we have a, a respect for property that's reflected in the law that is really quite distinctive.

Simon Adler:
Okay.

Fred Cate:
But, having said all of that, we don't really allow property rights in most body parts. And moreover, the law doesn't let us call the human body property.

Simon Adler:
Now, obviously in this country, there was a time when it did, but then you had the 13th Amendment which ended slavery. And since then ...

Fred Cate:
It could be sort of a squeamishness. It could be a reaction to the prohibition on slavery that we don't wanna ever give the notion that one person can own a- another person's body.

Simon Adler:
Since then, Fred says, U.S. law has gone very silent on questions of ownership in bodies, and so as a consequence, when someone donates you an organ, legally, you have no ownership claim over that organ.

Fred Cate:
Yep, yeah. We're just not willing to, to, to call it property.

Jad Abumrad:
Okay. I think I get that.

Simon Adler:
Where it gets sort of strange then, however, is that apparently that same prohibition applies to your own body.

Fred Cate:
Yeah. You don't have property interest i- i- in your body. And so although you can donate them and you can leave them in your will, we don't really treat them like property.

Jad Abumrad:
Wait, so you're born with a lung in your body. You don't own that thing that's been with you since birth?

Fred Cate:
Correct. It is yours, but you don't own it.

Simon Adler:
Well and it ... Are we quibbling over the word property here or ownership? Because this-

Fred Cate:
Because that's what lawyers do. We, we, we don't call it quibbling. This is what we make our money doing-

Simon Adler:
Okay. (laughs)

Fred Cate:
... is arguing over property.

Simon Adler:
If it's not property, what, what is it? What's the, what's the term at that point?

Fred Cate:
Um, yeah, I don't think we really have a term for that.

Simon Adler:
Now can you hear me?

Timothy Adler:
I can.

Simon Adler:
When I relayed this to my dad ...

Timothy Adler:
You don't own your own organs?

Simon Adler:
Right. (laughs)

Timothy Adler:
Yes. Yes.

Simon Adler:
He was as confused as I was.

Timothy Adler:
At the risk of a pun, they've certainly carved out an interesting, uh, concept here.

Simon Adler:
(laughs) Yes. And it turns out the consequences of this legal carve-out are spectacularly strange. Let- let- let's say you drew a little bit of blood out of your arm one evening for I don't know why, and you, you put it in a vial in your refrigerator, and that night a burglar breaks into your, your home, your apartment, goes into the refrigerator, and steals that blood. That, that thief would not be charged with theft for, for stealing that blood.

Fred Cate:
There might be criminal claims, like breaking and entering, but I just don't think there's gonna be a property claim there.

---------------------------

So... again, I'd really be interested in a lawyer's perspective here, if we still have any on Fark.
 
2022-07-01 6:23:28 PM  
I give plasma once a week to get a bit of extra money (I get $55 each time) and provide a social service.  I know I'm better off than most of the people who give.

I don't get why people would object to the industry.  Yes, there are a lot of poor people who give but the shameful things are the lack of support and high cost of living (and a lot more) that keeps people poor, not a lifesaving industry that gives people a bit of money for easy work that most people can do.
 
2022-07-01 9:14:23 PM  

OccamsWhiskers: I believe in the US, paid blood/plasma donations can only be used for research or cosmetics. Never for human transfusion. The risk is higher as donors have incentive to lie about needles, diseases, etc.

So your snack-based donations are still vitally important.


Nope, it's 95% used for pharmaceuticals. It's called 'plasma for further manufacturer', and it is basically liquid gold.

Donors lie CONSTANTLY, but that doesn't actually matter. Because each donation is tested for blood borne pathogens, and held in quarantine for about six months before being processed. If the donor has a positive test result all their donations are destroyed, or otherwise prevented from being used.
 
2022-07-01 9:14:42 PM  

Izunbacol: Private_Citizen: I struggle with paid donations. On the one hand, it incentivizes people to donate, on the other, it tends to prey on the poor. I'm fine with blood being a paid donation, since you replenish it routinely. Same with plasma and bone marrow. MUCH less fine with paid living organ donations. There are villages in India where most of the people only have one kidney.

I do think donations after death should compensate the family, as absolutely everyone else in the body part business is in it for the money. But even there, debate can exist. If a poor family has a loved one on life support, it might influence their decisions when they know that they'll receive thousands for donating the organs (that the hospital will likely take with bills and fees).

IANAL, but I recall hearing somewhere (perhaps one of my many podcasts) that legally, you do not own your body.  The fact that you cannot profit from selling parts of it, or selling access to organs (sex work), and have no legal IP rights to your DNA sequence flow from that base.

Would love to hear from attorneys if there are any precedents establishing this one way or another.

Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization

has made it clear that people's bodies are the property of the state.
 
2022-07-01 10:03:06 PM  

Private_Citizen: I struggle with paid donations. On the one hand, it incentivizes people to donate, on the other, it tends to prey on the poor. I'm fine with blood being a paid donation, since you replenish it routinely. Same with plasma and bone marrow. MUCH less fine with paid living organ donations. There are villages in India where most of the people only have one kidney.

I do think donations after death should compensate the family, as absolutely everyone else in the body part business is in it for the money. But even there, debate can exist. If a poor family has a loved one on life support, it might influence their decisions when they know that they'll receive thousands for donating the organs (that the hospital will likely take with bills and fees).


Tbh the medical bills alone make me want to die instead of having my family keep me on life support.
 
2022-07-02 12:24:40 AM  
I've wanted to donate. Universal blood type too. As a 110lb 5ft 9in man it pretty much couldn't happen. I was turned down multiple times because of a concern for safety.

Now I'm 38 and stable at 150lb (metabolism and all that), but now I get the run around on a simple question: can a fairly heavy drinker donate?

I get "call this number to ask" and "not sure" at every step, including local donation drives. I don't need money. Just trying to help, but I'm busy too. How is that that not a common question/concern before taking time to go donate?

They don't even ask how much. Is drinking admission the new gay?
 
2022-07-02 7:14:27 AM  

akede: I've wanted to donate. Universal blood type too. As a 110lb 5ft 9in man it pretty much couldn't happen. I was turned down multiple times because of a concern for safety.

Now I'm 38 and stable at 150lb (metabolism and all that), but now I get the run around on a simple question: can a fairly heavy drinker donate?



They probably won't give you a straight answer because they don't want to sound like they are discriminating. But they know being dehydrated (from alcohol or caffeine or whatever) will result in a bad donation experience.

I started donating plasma this year. One of the points they really stress is: Be well hydrated. If the donor is dehydrated or hasn't eaten recently, and they try to donate (plasma or whole blood), there is a good chance they will feel dizzy, nauseous, maybe puke, or even pass out. This is no joke. I've seen three new donors get sick.

.
 
2022-07-02 8:16:59 AM  

brachiopod: FTFA:

Blood makes up 2.69% of U.S. exports, according to the Census Bureau.

Is this correct? It seems like an implausibly large fraction.

In other news, the census bureau tracks imports and exports. I guess they need something to do the other nine years of each decade.


My mom worked for the census bureau. They're constantly taking measurements and polls; there's a lot more census data than just the 10 year national one.
 
2022-07-02 8:19:32 AM  

nytmare: Manfred J. Hattan: nytmare: Manfred J. Hattan: Oh, oops. Too quick on the button there. Source: https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/export/usa/all/show/2020/

Export: 3.89% - Crude Petroleum
Import: 3.34% - Crude Petroleum

wat?

Remember that we're a big net importer. So we actually imported more crude than we exported ($75.1 B vs $52.3 B), but the percentages work out that way since the total imports are so much higher.

Yeah but it's a commodity so why do we both import and export? Should be one or the other.


There's different types of crude, and we don't have the capacity to refine every type.
 
2022-07-02 8:26:21 AM  

Izunbacol: kwirlkarphys: Izunbacol: Private_Citizen: I struggle with paid donations. On the one hand, it incentivizes people to donate, on the other, it tends to prey on the poor. I'm fine with blood being a paid donation, since you replenish it routinely. Same with plasma and bone marrow. MUCH less fine with paid living organ donations. There are villages in India where most of the people only have one kidney.

I do think donations after death should compensate the family, as absolutely everyone else in the body part business is in it for the money. But even there, debate can exist. If a poor family has a loved one on life support, it might influence their decisions when they know that they'll receive thousands for donating the organs (that the hospital will likely take with bills and fees).

IANAL, but I recall hearing somewhere (perhaps one of my many podcasts) that legally, you do not own your body.  The fact that you cannot profit from selling parts of it, or selling access to organs (sex work), and have no legal IP rights to your DNA sequence flow from that base.

Would love to hear from attorneys if there are any precedents establishing this one way or another.

and this is the world we live in...information from joe rogan flows like the river and becomes fact by secondhand spreading.

Has Joe Rogan ever discussed this?  I always got the impression he was more a Howard Stern type of doofus for the too-tight shirt and creatine crowd.

I had to really dig around, but it seemed very "RadioLab," and my hunch was right:

https://radiolab.org/episodes/asking-friend

They're discussing the fact that there's no actual ownership of organs as a side discussion to transplants.

A section of the transcript:

Simon Adler:
He's the guy I ultimately called to try to tease out an answer here, because he's written a lot on the laws surrounding organ transplants. And he said the first thing you've gotta understand ...

Fred Cate:
Well, f- first of all, property is a really special thing in the law.

Narrator:
Code of Laws, by Hammurabi.

Simon Adler:
And by that he means, many of the oldest written laws we have as humans were about protecting property.

Fred Cate:
Historically, protecting property was, you know, very much at the heart of it.

Narrator:
Without witnesses or contracts, he has no legitimate claim.

Simon Adler:
They set out to settle disputes over ownership ...

Narrator:
If an enemy take away from him anything that he had ...

Simon Adler:
... assess damages.

Narrator:
... the broker shall be free of obligation.

Simon Adler:
And over time the number of things the law protects ha- has only grown.

Fred Cate:
You know, intangible things like intellectual property, you know, I can own a copyright now. And so we have a, a respect for property that's reflected in the law that is really quite distinctive.

Simon Adler:
Okay.

Fred Cate:
But, having said all of that, we don't really allow property rights in most body parts. And moreover, the law doesn't let us call the human body property.

Simon Adler:
Now, obviously in this country, there was a time when it did, but then you had the 13th Amendment which ended slavery. And since then ...

Fred Cate:
It could be sort of a squeamishness. It could be a reaction to the prohibition on slavery that we don't wanna ever give the notion that one person can own a- another person's body.

Simon Adler:
Since then, Fred says, U.S. law has gone very silent on questions of ownership in bodies, and so as a consequence, when someone donates you an organ, legally, you have no ownership claim over that organ.

Fred Cate:
Yep, yeah. We're just not willing to, to, to call it property.

Jad Abumrad:
Okay. I think I get that.

Simon Adler:
Where it gets sort of strange then, however, is that apparently that same prohibition applies to your own body.

Fred Cate:
Yeah. You don't have property interest i- i- in your body. And so although you can donate them and you can leave them in your will, we don't really treat them like property.

Jad Abumrad:
Wait, so you're born with a lung in your body. You don't own that thing that's been with you since birth?

Fred Cate:
Correct. It is yours, but you don't own it.

Simon Adler:
Well and it ... Are we quibbling over the word property here or ownership? Because this-

Fred Cate:
Because that's what lawyers do. We, we, we don't call it quibbling. This is what we make our money doing-

Simon Adler:
Okay. (laughs)

Fred Cate:
... is arguing over property.

Simon Adler:
If it's not property, what, what is it? What's the, what's the term at that point?

Fred Cate:
Um, yeah, I don't think we really have a term for that.

Simon Adler:
Now can you hear me?

Timothy Adler:
I can.

Simon Adler:
When I relayed this to my dad ...

Timothy Adler:
You don't own your own organs?

Simon Adler:
Right. (laughs)

Timothy Adler:
Yes. Yes.

Simon Adler:
He was as confused as I was.

Timothy Adler:
At the risk of a pun, they've certainly carved out an interesting, uh, concept here.

Simon Adler:
(laughs) Yes. And it turns out the consequences of this legal carve-out are spectacularly strange. Let- let- let's say you drew a little bit of blood out of your arm one evening for I don't know why, and you, you put it in a vial in your refrigerator, and that night a burglar breaks into your, your home, your apartment, goes into the refrigerator, and steals that blood. That, that thief would not be charged with theft for, for stealing that blood.

Fred Cate:
There might be criminal claims, like breaking and entering, but I just don't think there's gonna be a property claim there.

---------------------------

So... again, I'd really be interested in a lawyer's perspective here, if we still have any on Fark.


That makes sense. If you "own" your body, that assumably means there are methods where those ownership rights could transfer to someone else.

\of course, in the US slavery is still legal against prisoners
 
2022-07-02 8:43:06 AM  

akede: I've wanted to donate. Universal blood type too. As a 110lb 5ft 9in man it pretty much couldn't happen. I was turned down multiple times because of a concern for safety.

Now I'm 38 and stable at 150lb (metabolism and all that), but now I get the run around on a simple question: can a fairly heavy drinker donate?

I get "call this number to ask" and "not sure" at every step, including local donation drives. I don't need money. Just trying to help, but I'm busy too. How is that that not a common question/concern before taking time to go donate?

They don't even ask how much. Is drinking admission the new gay?


At least in my plasma center, while drug use is asked about, there are no questions about drinking on the list of questions.
 
2022-07-02 9:07:29 AM  

Private_Citizen: I struggle with paid donations. On the one hand, it incentivizes people to donate, on the other, it tends to prey on the poor. I'm fine with blood being a paid donation, since you replenish it routinely. Same with plasma and bone marrow. MUCH less fine with paid living organ donations. There are villages in India where most of the people only have one kidney.

I do think donations after death should compensate the family, as absolutely everyone else in the body part business is in it for the money. But even there, debate can exist. If a poor family has a loved one on life support, it might influence their decisions when they know that they'll receive thousands for donating the organs (that the hospital will likely take with bills and fees).


Prey on the poor?  How about calling it what it is:  An opportunity for easy money for the poor.

I must have missed the news of roving gangs of phlebotomists trying people down and draining a pint from unsuspecting poors.
 
2022-07-02 9:36:48 AM  

akede: I get "call this number to ask" and "not sure" at every step, including local donation drives. I don't need money. Just trying to help, but I'm busy too. How is that that not a common question/concern before taking time to go donate?

They don't even ask how much. Is drinking admission the new gay?


WTF? I'm sure it's fine, you're not donating your liver.

I showed up for one appointment still pretty buzzed from a night of heavy drinking. Everyone there knows me from repeat visits, so I just asked about my condition on checkin. Their only concern was if there was a chance of nausea, which is not part of my repertoire. You'll also have to pass their standard tests for pulse < 100, bp in normal range, no fever.
 
2022-07-02 10:29:29 AM  

OccamsWhiskers: I believe in the US, paid blood/plasma donations can only be used for research or cosmetics. Never for human transfusion. The risk is higher as donors have incentive to lie about needles, diseases, etc.

So your snack-based donations are still vitally important.


Incorrect. (And someone downthread probably already said this, it's a long thread.)

If you donate to one of those big centers in multiple cities like BioLife or Grifols, they do use some for research, but a significant amount ends up separated into component proteins (for example, Factor VIX or Factor IX, there are many others) that they then sell as infusion treatments that they charge thousands of dollars PER DOSE for... you know, so you can live if you have a rare disorder where your body doesn't make those proteins. The $40 and the snack they paid you with turns into thousands of dollars of profit for a pharmaceutical company.

/source: I used to work at a division of a company that did this.
 
2022-07-02 5:21:44 PM  

Highly evolved sloth: They left out the Red Cross: I donate platelets once a month and I get paid two 2.5 oz bags of Cheez-its.  By the end of the year, it's almost a full box!


I do too... but I get the Oreos.  Going to the fancy Red Cross.  Also periodically get a tshirt.
 
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