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(Some Guy)   The "just stop buying lattes" response to young people having no money? Yeah, it's bullshiat   (thehustle.co) divider line
    More: Obvious, Investment, Finance, Financial services, Pension, Collective investment scheme, Financial planner, Coffee, David Bach  
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882 clicks; posted to Business » and Politics » on 28 Jun 2022 at 2:40 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



49 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-06-28 12:39:37 PM  
Those "just stop buying Starbuck's" articles aren't actually advice for people who are struggling.

It's gaslighting poor people into believing that they have opportunities that don't actually exist, and that all their struggles are their own fault instead of being perpetually screwed by the wealthy; AND it's reassuring the wealthy that the poor are getting exactly what they deserve.

It's propaganda for neo-feudalism.
 
2022-06-28 12:40:32 PM  
This is an obvious tag that would have to be measured in parsecs.
 
2022-06-28 12:45:08 PM  
Looks like an adverticle for David Bach books... the man who did not even remotely invent the the "stop buying expensive takeout drinks" with his lame book that no one actually ever read.
 
2022-06-28 12:47:50 PM  
Look, it's simple: If you can identify any ways in which an individual person could have maybe done better, then there isn't a systemic problem, the world is fair, nothing needs to change, your advantages are due to your superior character and choices, and the financial difficulties of other people are entirely  due to them being financially undisciplined sluts.

See also: Recycling, coupon-clipping, listicles of water-saving tips
 
2022-06-28 12:53:28 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-06-28 12:55:03 PM  
The "just stop buying food and coffee!" would be more believable if it wasn't coming from the same people who are having an absolute meltdown over gas prices.
 
2022-06-28 12:57:57 PM  

Squid_for_Brains: The "just stop buying food and coffee!" would be more believable if it wasn't coming from the same people who are having an absolute meltdown over gas prices.


And the same people who are all about ways to make passive income complaining that nobody wants to work.
 
2022-06-28 12:59:39 PM  
"Are you latte-ing away your future?" Bach asked in a 1999 book. "Everyone makes enough money to become rich."

What. Farking. Planet. Does. This. Guy. LIVE. ON???!!!!
 
2022-06-28 1:05:01 PM  
How many expenditures are (almost) necessities now that weren't a generation ago?

Cell phones/smart phones
An internet connection (and associated costs)
Health insurance
Student loan repayments (if you have them)
Etc.

The basic cost of living is higher, purchasing power is greatly diminished, wages aren't going up but prices for things are. No wonder no one can afford to buy a house (housing prices notwithstanding)

And don't get me started on "live with 7 roommates in a one bedroom cottage in Bumfarkistan to save costs!" garbage either.
 
2022-06-28 1:09:37 PM  

I Ate Shergar: "Are you latte-ing away your future?" Bach asked in a 1999 book. "Everyone makes enough money to become rich."

What. Farking. Planet. Does. This. Guy. LIVE. ON???!!!!


I need to invest the $3.71 I have after paying for mere existence in high-yield investments. Apparently I'm not hustling enough in my two side gigs on top of a professional 40 hr/wk job to get rich because that's the important thing.

Maybe if I cut butter from my diet I could afford $15/mo to invest.
 
2022-06-28 1:09:59 PM  

JessieL: And the same people who are all about ways to make passive income complaining that nobody wants to work.


The way the world is going, I might just start playing on the drums all day.

/ can't really play drums, but still
 
2022-06-28 1:19:07 PM  

I Ate Shergar: "Are you latte-ing away your future?" Bach asked in a 1999 book. "Everyone makes enough money to become rich."

What. Farking. Planet. Does. This. Guy. LIVE. ON???!!!!


The planet where you need to tease ridiculous and insane things in order to make money selling a book.
 
2022-06-28 1:21:10 PM  
This often leads to the whole:

What happens when an entire generation have 80-90% of their entire retirement portfolio in stocks and the market crashes while they are retired and need the money?

Because from the ones I talk to, ain't no one is diversified out of stocks... they are ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL in stocks.


We definitely need a return to defined benefit packages.. I wonder what will harken that return? Hmmmmm...
 
2022-06-28 1:24:58 PM  

no1curr: How many expenditures are (almost) necessities now that weren't a generation ago?

Cell phones/smart phones
An internet connection (and associated costs)


I think some of the problem is that our technological purchases are things that used to be much, much more expensive in past generations --- hence you have boomers and even Gen-Xers who think a "big screen TV" is a financially  irresponsible luxury meaning that you're not really poor.

Meanwhile, some things like houses and college tuition were more affordable back then, and affordable comparable to single-earner wages; so it makes sense that oldsters would have a gut reaction that "you can't afford X because you're spending too much on Y and not doing Z."
 
2022-06-28 1:36:03 PM  

Xcott: no1curr: How many expenditures are (almost) necessities now that weren't a generation ago?

Cell phones/smart phones
An internet connection (and associated costs)

I think some of the problem is that our technological purchases are things that used to be much, much more expensive in past generations --- hence you have boomers and even Gen-Xers who think a "big screen TV" is a financially  irresponsible luxury meaning that you're not really poor.

Meanwhile, some things like houses and college tuition were more affordable back then, and affordable comparable to single-earner wages; so it makes sense that oldsters would have a gut reaction that "you can't afford X because you're spending too much on Y and not doing Z."


Yeah, decades ago housing was cheap and food was expensive. Now it's the other way around.
 
2022-06-28 1:36:50 PM  

NewportBarGuy: hat happens when an entire generation have 80-90% of their entire retirement portfolio in stocks and the market crashes while they are retired and need the money?

Because from the ones I talk to, ain't no one is diversified out of stocks... they are ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL in stocks.


Isn't it retirement 101 to slowly shift from stock to bonds as one nears retirement age?
 
2022-06-28 1:48:20 PM  

bostonguy: NewportBarGuy: hat happens when an entire generation have 80-90% of their entire retirement portfolio in stocks and the market crashes while they are retired and need the money?

Because from the ones I talk to, ain't no one is diversified out of stocks... they are ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL in stocks.

Isn't it retirement 101 to slowly shift from stock to bonds as one nears retirement age?


Yes, it has been... but the returns on bonds have sucked for so long that a lot of people seem to have said "f*ck that boring ass sh*t"

At least if the allocations are still along the lines of stories I've seen for the past couple of years are accurate.
 
2022-06-28 2:12:46 PM  

I Ate Shergar: "Are you latte-ing away your future?" Bach asked in a 1999 book. "Everyone makes enough money to become rich."

What. Farking. Planet. Does. This. Guy. LIVE. ON???!!!!


The planet where he can shiat out a book and become a millionaire, apparently.
 
2022-06-28 2:40:45 PM  

Xcott: no1curr: How many expenditures are (almost) necessities now that weren't a generation ago?

Cell phones/smart phones
An internet connection (and associated costs)

I think some of the problem is that our technological purchases are things that used to be much, much more expensive in past generations --- hence you have boomers and even Gen-Xers who think a "big screen TV" is a financially  irresponsible luxury meaning that you're not really poor.

Meanwhile, some things like houses and college tuition were more affordable back then, and affordable comparable to single-earner wages; so it makes sense that oldsters would have a gut reaction that "you can't afford X because you're spending too much on Y and not doing Z."


Many moons ago, I saw some half-assed article about this. Pretty much saying the cost of TVs has gone down, so what are all the kids complaining about?! Someone responded by asking for the person who wrote the article to do the same thing but with rent and education.
 
2022-06-28 2:46:33 PM  

JessieL: Those "just stop buying Starbuck's" articles aren't actually advice for people who are struggling.

It's gaslighting poor people into believing that they have opportunities that don't actually exist, and that all their struggles are their own fault instead of being perpetually screwed by the wealthy; AND it's reassuring the wealthy that the poor are getting exactly what they deserve.

It's propaganda for neo-feudalism.


Isn't it interesting how the left wing liberal media support the interests or the 1% who own the media?
It's kind of like how FarKKK.com is supposed to be a "liberal echo chamber".
 
2022-06-28 2:48:27 PM  
No shiat. That argument is just deflecting from the fact that wages were decoupled from productivity gains long ago. We've had 50 years of artificial wage stagnation that needs to be unwound to give people a chance at the good life. The .1% is fearing this as it means they might not be able to live in luxury that would make Croesus blush.
 
2022-06-28 3:02:40 PM  
Yeah, because a latte is why I can't afford a $4k a month mortgage with a $300k down payment.
 
2022-06-28 3:05:46 PM  

NewportBarGuy: This often leads to the whole:

What happens when an entire generation have 80-90% of their entire retirement portfolio in stocks and the market crashes while they are retired and need the money?

Because from the ones I talk to, ain't no one is diversified out of stocks... they are ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL in stocks.


We definitely need a return to defined benefit packages.. I wonder what will harken that return? Hmmmmm...


Its not going to be old people starving to death in the streets, one of our political parties is fine with that and the other might form a committee to try and determine why seniors are starving to death in the streets, that won't reach a (not even necessarily correct) conclusion until they're back out of power.
 
2022-06-28 3:06:12 PM  
lattes were a mark of frivolous luxury, made famous in 1997 by opinion columnist David Brooks's use of the phrase "latte town" to describe America's elite bubbles.

Wow!  I'm impressed that there is a new way for me to hate David Brooks.
 
2022-06-28 3:12:21 PM  

I Ate Shergar: "Are you latte-ing away your future?" Bach asked in a 1999 book. "Everyone makes enough money to become rich."

What. Farking. Planet. Does. This. Guy. LIVE. ON???!!!!


The planet where he was born rich and went to work for daddy. He's from the economic school of "why don't poor people buy more money?"
 
2022-06-28 3:23:34 PM  
I was doing the math for a similar concept
Back in the 1960s? 1970s? a median california house cost 3000 disneyland tickets.

Now a median california house costs 10000 disneyland tickets, and think how much the cost of disney land has gone up.
 
2022-06-28 3:27:29 PM  
Watch the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves.
 
2022-06-28 3:28:56 PM  
I think everyone has overstated and misinterpreted the basic concept of the original idea that the latte anecdote stems from.  It was originally meant to be an illustration of how human brains do not intuitively conceptualize financial concepts.  Basically, even though you are aware of all these small individual expenses adding up, some aspect of it doesn't fully register with us on a conscious level.  That is why there are many stories of people who when forced to track every purchase they make over the course of a month realize that all these small trivial purchases can and do add up to a significant expense.

Now, is being aware of this fact going to magically fix you income problems and grant you the purchasing power necessary to buy a new home?  No, probably not.  But, there is value in better understanding your expenses each month and leveraging that to make better financial decisions.
 
2022-06-28 3:31:04 PM  
Ya, the value of homes in my neighborhood have gone up a few hundred thousand dollars over the past five years or so. There is no way you are going to offset that by giving up Starbucks. And these are just modest 3-4 bedroom homes built in the mid-70s.

/So glad I bought my house back in '96
//I would not want to have to by my house today
///We have property tax increase limits in place in my state, so even though the value of my house has more than tripled since I bought it my property taxes have not even doubled.
 
2022-06-28 3:32:25 PM  

v2micca: I think everyone has overstated and misinterpreted the basic concept of the original idea that the latte anecdote stems from.  It was originally meant to be an illustration of how human brains do not intuitively conceptualize financial concepts.  Basically, even though you are aware of all these small individual expenses adding up, some aspect of it doesn't fully register with us on a conscious level.  That is why there are many stories of people who when forced to track every purchase they make over the course of a month realize that all these small trivial purchases can and do add up to a significant expense.

Now, is being aware of this fact going to magically fix you income problems and grant you the purchasing power necessary to buy a new home?  No, probably not.  But, there is value in better understanding your expenses each month and leveraging that to make better financial decisions.


Every time I analyze my spending, I say to myself "Yikes!  I spend a lot of money at the liquor store."

I will agree with what you're saying on that level.  My budget is death by a thousand cuts.
 
2022-06-28 3:35:24 PM  

I Ate Shergar: "Are you latte-ing away your future?" Bach asked in a 1999 book. "Everyone makes enough money to become rich."


In 1999 there was some truth to that. The stock market was at an all time high thanks to the Internet bubble. I think my rent was $500/month - the real estate boom was still years off and rent/mortgage was cheap by today's standards. College was getting expensive but still manageable if you went to a decent school and studied STEM. Internet related job salaries were getting bid up as were salaries in other industries (I remember a truck driver bragging he made close to $200k in 1998).

In other words, yeah, I could see making that statement in 1999.
 
2022-06-28 3:40:16 PM  
You can be as cheap as you want but the nature of income is that there is a bottom level you can't live below in modern society (even if you subsistence farm, which you wouldn't in the US, but if you did you would still be expected to pay property taxes on your non-income for the farm you in theory inherited to do subsistence agriculture on).

There are fixed needs you must meet before you can plow money into other things. There are also emergencies and situations where you need a sudden stack of cash.

If you are poor, even supposing you DO save some money, the second eventuality is likely to wipe your savings. In order to save significant wealth, you need a meaningful surplus over basic needs.

At one point I was working as a tour guide for not a lot of money. I did manage to save a small amount monthly, about $200. Then I moved, and almost all of that was wiped out (and I had some financial help).

For a brief period of time I made much more money and was able to save a lot; I did this by living with relatives and paying below market rent. I looked at apartments and they would have been 3x what I was paying - and would have effectively zeroed out the surplus that I was saving.
 
2022-06-28 3:43:57 PM  
Most money is wasted by and on the wealthy.

I say drill, baby, drill.
 
hej
2022-06-28 3:44:52 PM  
I go out to get coffee for breakfast in the morning, almost daily.  Latte, pastry, tax and tip leave it at least $10, usually more like $13.  30'ish days a month, and that's about $400 a month I'm spending on buying lattes.
 
2022-06-28 4:20:34 PM  

NewportBarGuy: What happens when an entire generation have 80-90% of their entire retirement portfolio in stocks and the market crashes while they are retired and need the money?

Because from the ones I talk to, ain't no one is diversified out of stocks... they are ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL in stocks.


I'm 100% in stocks and am about a year away from retirement.  I've lost probably 25% of my nest egg this year.  But I'm not really worried because I also have about 2 years' worth of daily expenses in cash.  I'm reasonably confident that the market will be rebounding by then.  When I actually do have to start selling, I might not be back to where I was in, say, Jan. 2022, but considering the market growth in the 5 years prior, I'd wager that even today, in a bear market, I'm still well-ahead of where I'd have been if I had diversified into more conservative investments 5 years ago.  As long as you've got your short- and medium-term expenses managed, there's no reason why you need to diversify and miss out on the growth potential of being all-in on stocks.
 
2022-06-28 4:28:47 PM  
I love a coffee and a bite before hitting the slopes for a day of work. So i put a paper cup under the keurig and extrude a good cup of hawaiian blend, put some good cream based stuff in there, snap on a lid, stick in a straw, and its good to go. Costs no more than a buck fiddy. Toss in a burrito or a cup of oatmeal and its all the way up to 2.50 or 3 bucks. All from my kitchen...I get there early enough to avoid the parking derby, and kick back with the phone and enjoy the 20 minutes before i have to walk in to work. Our starbucks consietently has ten or twenty cars in line during morning rush...
 
2022-06-28 4:42:31 PM  

hej: I go out to get coffee for breakfast in the morning, almost daily.  Latte, pastry, tax and tip leave it at least $10, usually more like $13.  30'ish days a month, and that's about $400 a month I'm spending on buying lattes.


If you worked harder you wouldn't have time for breakfast.
 
2022-06-28 4:44:59 PM  

I Ate Shergar: "Are you latte-ing away your future?" Bach asked in a 1999 book. "Everyone makes enough money to become rich."

What. Farking. Planet. Does. This. Guy. LIVE. ON???!!!!


If everyone is rich, then nobody is rich.

// Unless this is based on the "99.7% of households have a refrigerator" definition of "rich".
 
2022-06-28 4:50:58 PM  
Yea, please tell me all about how personal financial growth is a person's individual responsibility instead of a collectively constrained concept...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-06-28 5:18:37 PM  
Well it isn't the coffee it is the coffee with the avocado toast, that is what is breaking them. Just stop buying both of them and you can be rich like m, now buy my book!
 
2022-06-28 5:34:47 PM  
Worst illustrative gif evar.

thehustle.coView Full Size
 
2022-06-28 6:15:15 PM  

PR Deltoid: Watch the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves.


Just sing while you save.
 
2022-06-28 7:01:07 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-06-28 11:57:32 PM  
Saving $5/day for 40 years... after adjusting for inflation, and using an average 8% rate of return...

Makes $73k turn into the buying power equivalent of just under $150k in constant dollars.

Yeah, it's that bad.

You need to be saving a bit more than that if you are going to get anywhere going that route.  There is a reason why you only get rich by luck, stealing it yourself, or having an ancestor steal it for you.
 
2022-06-29 2:45:58 AM  

inglixthemad: No shiat. That argument is just deflecting from the fact that wages were decoupled from productivity gains long ago. We've had 50 years of artificial wage stagnation that needs to be unwound to give people a chance at the good life. The .1% is fearing this as it means they might not be able to live in luxury that would make Croesus blush.


What wage stagnation exactly? The one where you feel the owners of the business are making too much money they should share with you but instead they offer a wage you say yes I'll work that job then act like you've been chained to a desk and unable to leave for a new job? Pal if you don't like the money don't do the work, problem is other people will say yes I'll do that work leaving you holding the unemployment ball and going home.

Lets say everyone magically increased wages by some percentage you feel your unskilled labor is worth, instead of 50k a year you and everyone else get bumped to 100k a year, the prices of goods rises upward due to so much money chasing fewer good and pretty soon instead of that latte costing 3 bucks it now costs 6 bucks, you're making that magical 100k and still you can't buy anything more then you could at the other wage.

Incidentally we are facing a wage spiral now or soon will be, wages will rise due to inflation injecting more money into a stressed system which must inflate again to compensate, your raise is now worthless if not worse then you were before. But keep electing politicians that hand out free money only to watch your buying power plummet, see where it gets ya.
 
2022-06-29 4:28:04 AM  
Labor doesn't make any money. At best you're treading water.

There are only three ways to truly accrue wealth:

1) Inheritance
2) Speculation
3) Rent-seeking

Inheritance can't be helped or fixed in your lifetime. It comes from your parents -- if you have a wealthy family, good for you. You play the game of life in easy mode.

Speculation requires a large amount of initial capital to make immediate gains, but can be done frugally over a long time for the disciplined and industrious. Unfortunately, it's not a fun life to live.

Rent-seeking is the real goal: Build/buy/make/create/own something, and then sell it to others for a monthly fee. You don't have to do anything after that, just keep collecting fees. All self-made uber rich people amassed their fortunes through rent-seeking (and after awhile speculation). There is no better path to 1%er wealth, and it is the only true upward mobility option for Labor.
 
2022-06-29 8:29:55 AM  

NewportBarGuy: bostonguy: NewportBarGuy: hat happens when an entire generation have 80-90% of their entire retirement portfolio in stocks and the market crashes while they are retired and need the money?

Because from the ones I talk to, ain't no one is diversified out of stocks... they are ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL in stocks.

Isn't it retirement 101 to slowly shift from stock to bonds as one nears retirement age?

Yes, it has been... but the returns on bonds have sucked for so long that a lot of people seem to have said "f*ck that boring ass sh*t"

At least if the allocations are still along the lines of stories I've seen for the past couple of years are accurate.


There are also REITs and CDs. Diversified commercial bond funds are a thing. Certain kinds of stocks, like utilities, offer decent income with little volatility. You're not limited to bonds. There's something for every risk level.
 
2022-06-29 5:05:45 PM  
cdn.barstoolsports.comView Full Size
 
2022-06-29 7:43:03 PM  

abiigdog: What wage stagnation exactly? The one where you feel the owners of the business are making too much money they should share with you but instead they offer a wage you say yes I'll work that job then act like you've been chained to a desk and unable to leave for a new job? Pal if you don't like the money don't do the work, problem is other people will say yes I'll do that work leaving you holding the unemployment ball and going home.


The one where wages became decoupled from productivity. I'm guessing you haven't been paying attention for decades, if you're old enough to be able to say that one. Unlike you, however, I took the life of a pirate to heart.

"Be holding no loyalty to the corporation. To them you're just a negative line on a balance sheet, and will be terminated the picosecond they think they need to juice the next report. Think like a pirate. TAKE ALL YOU CAN! GIVE NOTHING (more than absolutely necessary) BACK! ALWAYS BE READY TO STAB YOUR EMPLOYER IN THE BACK IF SOMEONE OFFERS YOU MORE MONEY."

When someone complains... remind them that you didn't set the rules, corporations and rich people set the rules. Remind them that when you grew up, the person with the most money and toys was automagically the bestest person.

abiigdog: Lets say everyone magically increased wages by some percentage you feel your unskilled labor is worth, instead of 50k a year you and everyone else get bumped to 100k a year, the prices of goods rises upward due to so much money chasing fewer good and pretty soon instead of that latte costing 3 bucks it now costs 6 bucks, you're making that magical 100k and still you can't buy anything more then you could at the other wage.


I love how you assume I, someone who co-owns a TBM 930 with a Medical Doctor, is unskilled labor. Even in my youth I didn't make it to 18 being unskilled labor. I was a mason's apprentice at 16. I worked 3 jobs in the summer to get through college without debt, paying it all in cash, but then again THAT WAS POSSIBLE. Today you couldn't go to a high-end state school for that kind of money. Why? Wages were decoupled from productivity. Also your idiotic assumption that everything magically inflates is endemically wrong because in a truly competitive market more people will begin making similar products. You're a bit dim here so I'll explain:

Back in the golden age of aircraft, we had MANY producers of aircraft... not just the big 4. So yeah, there was Cessna / Beech / Piper / Mooney, but there were near innumerable smaller producers who made niche products that sold well enough because: SURVEY SAYS! The population would spread out to appropriate lines of purchase. For some people that was backwoods aircraft, or specialty "seaplanes" like Lake. Prices were kept "low" by this magical thing called COMPETITION but not just by paying your employees less, indeed as skilled labor many of these employees commanded good wages to put it politely, the LINE personnel could afford to buy a Cessna for heaven's sake, but by sale of quantity and improving efficiency.

abiigdog: Incidentally we are facing a wage spiral now or soon will be, wages will rise due to inflation injecting more money into a stressed system which must inflate again to compensate, your raise is now worthless if not worse then you were before. But keep electing politicians that hand out free money only to watch your buying power plummet, see where it gets ya.


Did you honestly think it was long-term sustainable to keep paying field workers $2/hr to pick strawberries? $9/hr to work at McDonalds. Here's a hint: Answering yes to either of those demonstrates you're a complete idiot.
 
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