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(ProPublica)   Here are the ten ways that billionaires avoid paying taxes. Lobbying the government to change tax laws for your benefit is suspiciously absent. Oh wait   (propublica.org) divider line
    More: Murica, Taxation in the United States, Tax, Taxation, Income tax, Tech mogul Peter Thiel, Low-Tax-Rate Income, ultrawealthy avoid taxes, U.S. system taxes income  
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696 clicks; posted to Business » on 27 Jun 2022 at 3:50 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



15 Comments     (+0 »)
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2022-06-27 3:02:07 PM  
The tax code offers business owners a slew of methods to erase income through deductions, none more awesome than buying a sports team, as former Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer did with the Los Angeles Clippers.

I seem to recall a lot of debate whenever a major city would want to build a new stadium and attract a pro sports team -- "Is it actually good for the city?"

Was that economic debate ever settled? Perhaps it's true that it basically just funnels money into the pockets of rich people and marginally helps everyone else at best.
 
2022-06-27 4:23:45 PM  
It's worse than anybody knows. The 1%, despite taking home 20% of all revenue earned in the US, only pay 38% of all the federal income taxes. https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/
 
2022-06-27 4:36:53 PM  
(insert Steve Martin clip)
 
2022-06-27 4:37:41 PM  

bostonguy: The tax code offers business owners a slew of methods to erase income through deductions, none more awesome than buying a sports team, as former Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer did with the Los Angeles Clippers.

I seem to recall a lot of debate whenever a major city would want to build a new stadium and attract a pro sports team -- "Is it actually good for the city?"

Was that economic debate ever settled? Perhaps it's true that it basically just funnels money into the pockets of rich people and marginally helps everyone else at best.


You can carry this argument upwards into countries hosting the Olympics or the World Cup.

What would be really interesting is if the New York Yankees kicked the Atlanta Braves out of their city for favorable payroll tax incentives.
 
2022-06-27 4:42:19 PM  
#3 - How DO you creatively turn high tax rate trading into low tax rate income?
#10 - Trusts must have a defined end point. They can't go on forever. The end is generally either a term of years or after the death of certain individuals. Then Uncle Sam gets his cut of the money in the trust. Meanwhile anything distributed out of the trust is taxed as income. It ain't tax free forever.
 
2022-06-27 5:22:04 PM  

CCNP: It's worse than anybody knows. The 1%, despite taking home 20% of all revenue earned in the US, only pay 38% of all the federal income taxes. https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/


This isn't unique to the US or to this period of human history. In medieval times, the nobility paid low taxes relative to their wealth. Just enough to pay for an army to protect them and collect the bulk of the taxes from the farmers and artisans (i.e. middle class). And since poor people have little money, there is no sense spending money to try to tax them - the return there is negative.
 
2022-06-27 5:24:10 PM  

CCNP: It's worse than anybody knows. The 1%, despite taking home 20% of all revenue earned in the US, only pay 38% of all the federal income taxes. https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/



You made a small change, easy to miss, but completely mischaracterizing the facts.   According to your source, the 1% don't account for 20% of all "revenue" as you claim, but 20% of "reported income".  The difference, obviously, is enormous.

Which is kind of the point of TFA.
 
2022-06-27 6:23:14 PM  

pearls before swine: CCNP: It's worse than anybody knows. The 1%, despite taking home 20% of all revenue earned in the US, only pay 38% of all the federal income taxes. https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/

You made a small change, easy to miss, but completely mischaracterizing the facts.   According to your source, the 1% don't account for 20% of all "revenue" as you claim, but 20% of "reported income".  The difference, obviously, is enormous.

Which is kind of the point of TFA.


Thanks for spotting that weasel!  I was sure there was a weasel around, but I thought it would be in the area of "38% of all the federal income taxes" using an exceptionally narrow definition of "federal income taxes" that doesn't include things like Social Security or Medicare taxes that taper off beyond a certain not-so-high income level.  (That weasel may be around as well, but I don't have the time/bandwidth to check right now.)
 
2022-06-27 7:48:28 PM  

dbirchall: pearls before swine: CCNP: It's worse than anybody knows. The 1%, despite taking home 20% of all revenue earned in the US, only pay 38% of all the federal income taxes. https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/

You made a small change, easy to miss, but completely mischaracterizing the facts.   According to your source, the 1% don't account for 20% of all "revenue" as you claim, but 20% of "reported income".  The difference, obviously, is enormous.

Which is kind of the point of TFA.

Thanks for spotting that weasel!  I was sure there was a weasel around, but I thought it would be in the area of "38% of all the federal income taxes" using an exceptionally narrow definition of "federal income taxes" that doesn't include things like Social Security or Medicare taxes that taper off beyond a certain not-so-high income level.  (That weasel may be around as well, but I don't have the time/bandwidth to check right now.)


Yes, it does not include payroll taxes which, for the working poor, are the majority of the federal taxes they pay.  It also doesn't include state taxes, of course, including sales tax, which is also regressive.  The rich do pay "federal income tax" at a higher average rate than the rest of us, but they also pay it on a considerably smaller portion of their revenue than the rest of us.
 
2022-06-27 7:51:26 PM  
Yeah, well, what do you expect when your government is a plutocracy?
 
2022-06-28 8:11:38 AM  

bostonguy: The tax code offers business owners a slew of methods to erase income through deductions, none more awesome than buying a sports team, as former Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer did with the Los Angeles Clippers.

I seem to recall a lot of debate whenever a major city would want to build a new stadium and attract a pro sports team -- "Is it actually good for the city?"

Was that economic debate ever settled? Perhaps it's true that it basically just funnels money into the pockets of rich people and marginally helps everyone else at best.


It's a net deficit.  However, the construction creates lots of jobs.  For some venues there are opportunities for bars, restaurants, parking facilities etc.
If it's public money voters should make sure the concessions are independently owned and operated, and that the arena is built near other businesses so everyone can benefit.
 
2022-06-28 10:22:07 AM  

dbirchall: that doesn't include things like Social Security or Medicare taxes


1. Social security and Medicare contributions are not taxes. They are mandatory social insurance contributions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)

2. Half of all mandatory social insurance contributions are paid by corporations, which are owned by the 1%.
 
2022-06-28 11:19:01 AM  

CCNP: dbirchall: that doesn't include things like Social Security or Medicare taxes

1. Social security and Medicare contributions are not taxes. They are mandatory social insurance contributions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)


They are taxes.  Mandatory contributions to the government are taxesThe IRS calls them taxes.


CCNP:  2. Half of all mandatory social insurance contributions are paid by corporations, which are owned by the 1%.

First, that's not true.  Second, that's irrelevant.

Half of payroll taxes are payed by employers (not necessarily corporations).  The 1% obviously do not own all the employers.  Most small business owners (employing almost half of private sector workers) are not in the 1%, and corporations are owned by stockholders, which is 58% of the population, not 1%.

Regardless, owning a business that pays taxes does not mean you're paying taxes, it means your business has an expense that reduces its profit, giving you less income on which you will have to pay taxes.

None of this supports your white knighting of the super rich.  They pay a considerably smaller share of their gains in taxes than do the rest of us.  The fact that they pay a higher tax rate on the income they do get taxed on doesn't change the fact that they do not have to pay any tax on a great deal of gain that makes them more wealthy, but does not meet the definition of "realized income" that gets it taxed.

You can certainly argue the rich shouldn't be paying more, if you want, but don't pretend that they actually are.
 
2022-06-28 12:02:46 PM  

pearls before swine: They pay a considerably smaller share of their gains in taxes than do the rest of us.


Wait a second. You told me that 58% of the population are stockholders. So this "tax break" applies to 58% of the population, not just the 1%.

You can certainly argue the rich shouldn't be paying more, if you want, but don't pretend that they actually are.

The rich are paying more. They average income tax rate for the 1% is 25%, compared to 3.5% for the bottom 50%.https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/

97% of income tax revenue comes from the top 50%.

87% comes from the top 25% of earners.

70% comes from the top 10% of earners.

If you wish to claim otherwise, you will need to show evidence of this. But something tells me you don't have enough time.
 
2022-06-28 12:49:13 PM  

CCNP: pearls before swine: They pay a considerably smaller share of their gains in taxes than do the rest of us.

Wait a second. You told me that 58% of the population are stockholders. So this "tax break" applies to 58% of the population, not just the 1%.


It isn't a tax break, it's simply less income.  Also, it doesn't change the fact that the rich pay a considerably smaller share of their gains in taxes than do the rest of us.

You can certainly argue the rich shouldn't be paying more, if you want, but don't pretend that they actually are.

The rich are paying more. They average income tax rate for the 1% is 25%, compared to 3.5% for the bottom 50%.https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/


I'm saying you can argue that the rich shouldn't be paying more than they already are.  They obviously pay more than the poor.  They have almost all the income.  The prevailing attitude of the article and the comments is that the rich should be paying more than they are.  You, on the other hand, are making statements implying the rich pay more than they actually do.  Why?

97% of income tax revenue comes from the top 50%.

87% comes from the top 25% of earners.

70% comes from the top 10% of earners.

If you wish to claim otherwise, you will need to show evidence of this. But something tells me you don't have enough time.


I'm not claiming otherwise. I'm claiming that the rich pay a considerably smaller share of their gains in taxes than do the rest of us.  This is an article about how the rich get richer but avoid having their gains taxed. People have generally expressed their discontent with that fact.  The "facts" you're presenting to counter this notion do not actually do so.
 
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