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(WFTV Orlando)   FBI seizes Jean-Michel Basquiat art exhibit at Orlando Museum of Art. Surprisingly, female nudes not priority   (wftv.com) divider line
    More: Florida, Federal Bureau of Investigation, free WFTV news, picture of the back of the painting, weather apps, director of OMA, WFTV Now app, possession of an art exhibit, Law enforcement agency  
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3449 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jun 2022 at 9:05 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-06-24 7:54:11 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-06-24 9:13:56 PM  
I wish they'd do that for NAGPRA matters too.  Instead of dealing with notices and reports and letters and consultations, we could just get the FBI or the NPS to stop by and take the human remains and funerary items in the collection.  Then they can deal with the paperwork.
 
2022-06-24 9:17:35 PM  
I'm not quite sure why this is a legal matter and not a civil matter..The items were not for sale..
They were just being shown..The estate or person(s) holding the rights to his works might complain,
but that's a civil matter between the three of them (owner,Basquit estate, and museum)..

There have been numerous museum exhibits where fakes were shown..For decades..
Fake Picasso's, Fake Monet, Fake Pollack, Fake archeological/ethnographic items...I don't get the need for
the FBI to rush in and grab shat off the walls and keep it all hush hush..

Unless the items were owned by some sanctioned Russian oligarch and are being appropriated,
it seems a bit over the top to grab stuff from a museum over a civil dispute of authenticity..
 
2022-06-24 9:20:23 PM  
Was watching a 2017 episode of Antiques Roadshow and the appraiser said there *used* to be a consortium of people who would authenticate Basquiat's work, but they had disbanded years before.
 
2022-06-24 9:27:29 PM  

NM Volunteer: I wish they'd do that for NAGPRA matters too.  Instead of dealing with notices and reports and letters and consultations, we could just get the FBI or the NPS to stop by and take the human remains and funerary items in the collection.  Then they can deal with the paperwork.


Fun Fact: the remains of the ancestors of many Native Hawaiians are sitting in storage at a military base in Hawaii.

TL;DR: after the fall of Queen Liliʻuokalani...some unscrupulous MF-ers opened up a "museum" in which the remains of many Native Hawaiians were displayed.

In essence, they paid people to desecrate Native Hawaiian burial grounds and used the remains as displays AND as "proof" of a bunch of bullshiat theories (ancient aliens, moon nazis, eugenics). When, rightly, the "museum" was sued out of existence...the families of the deceased had to unanimously agree about what to do with the remains (it was part of the ruling).

/ Unsurprisingly...the win against the Le musée de la mauvaise science was the last time anyone agreed on anything.
 
2022-06-24 9:41:02 PM  

Mr. Shabooboo: I'm not quite sure why this is a legal matter and not a civil matter..The items were not for sale..
They were just being shown..The estate or person(s) holding the rights to his works might complain,
but that's a civil matter between the three of them (owner,Basquit estate, and museum)..

There have been numerous museum exhibits where fakes were shown..For decades..
Fake Picasso's, Fake Monet, Fake Pollack, Fake archeological/ethnographic items...I don't get the need for
the FBI to rush in and grab shat off the walls and keep it all hush hush..

Unless the items were owned by some sanctioned Russian oligarch and are being appropriated,
it seems a bit over the top to grab stuff from a museum over a civil dispute of authenticity..


Because of insurance companies?
 
2022-06-24 9:44:51 PM  

Mr. Shabooboo: There have been numerous museum exhibits where fakes were shown..For decades..
Fake Picasso's, Fake Monet, Fake Pollack, Fake archeological/ethnographic items...I don't get the need for
the FBI to rush in and grab shat off the walls and keep it all hush hush..


When it's intentionally being highlighted as a forgery, then it is okay.  If they are claiming it is real and not fake, then it is a federal crime.
 
2022-06-24 9:45:18 PM  

Thosw: Was watching a 2017 episode of Antiques Roadshow and the appraiser said there *used* to be a consortium of people who would authenticate Basquiat's work, but they had disbanded years before.


I must have been watching the same one where they appraised the drawing at 400k.
 
2022-06-24 9:50:21 PM  
I am not really a fan and never understood this art.
 
2022-06-24 9:53:05 PM  
There's a history of appraisers authenticating their own fakes.
 
2022-06-24 9:55:43 PM  
The paintings, which were found in the storage locker of a television writer, are said to be worth about $100 million.

Old-school bitcoin.
 
2022-06-24 10:02:41 PM  

Por que tan serioso: I am not really a fan and never understood this art.


Thanks for sharing
 
2022-06-24 10:04:50 PM  
Art is a bourgeoisie institution. An affront to humanity. Every gallery should be bulldozed and every artist given 30 years of hard labor in Yekokata
 
2022-06-24 10:10:24 PM  
I work in an art museum and I'm getting a kick....

I wonder if the museum's attorneys signed off on this exhibit?
 
2022-06-24 10:18:14 PM  

raerae1980: I work in an art museum and I'm getting a kick....

I wonder if the museum's attorneys signed off on this exhibit?


Do you have any insight as to what may be going on here? Any legal precedents or reasons for the FBI involvement?
 
2022-06-24 10:19:50 PM  

raerae1980: I work in an art museum and I'm getting a kick....

I wonder if the museum's attorneys signed off on this exhibit?


Arts worth is in the eye of the beholder, you should know this.
Art history 101 minor with a major in illustration and photography, both of which did me no good in life. Face it, advertising is the only way in life.

/You'll love selling yourself out to make a living
//or move to Italy
 
2022-06-24 10:24:57 PM  

freakingmoron: raerae1980: I work in an art museum and I'm getting a kick....

I wonder if the museum's attorneys signed off on this exhibit?

Do you have any insight as to what may be going on here? Any legal precedents or reasons for the FBI involvement?


Art forgery is illegal nationally and internationally.  As in the FBI and Interpol get involved.  This particular exhibit had a few headlines on Fark over the past month about suspicion of it being all forgeries.
 
2022-06-24 10:28:40 PM  

NM Volunteer: freakingmoron: raerae1980: I work in an art museum and I'm getting a kick....

I wonder if the museum's attorneys signed off on this exhibit?

Do you have any insight as to what may be going on here? Any legal precedents or reasons for the FBI involvement?

Art forgery is illegal nationally and internationally.  As in the FBI and Interpol get involved.  This particular exhibit had a few headlines on Fark over the past month about suspicion of it being all forgeries.


It sounds to me like due diligence wasn't done on these objects.   And because the insurance costs to cover these objects would be in the millions, insurers don't like insuring fake objects.   This is why you get an attorney to go over your loan agreements.
 
2022-06-24 10:34:52 PM  
Mr. Shabooboo:
Unless the items were owned by some sanctioned Russian oligarch and are being appropriated,
it seems a bit over the top to grab stuff from a museum over a civil dispute of authenticity..


It's evidence of a multi-million-dollar crime. Like hundreds of millions of dollars of criminal grift right there in the open, you think major crimes squads would just ignore that?
 
2022-06-24 10:37:23 PM  

NM Volunteer: freakingmoron: raerae1980: I work in an art museum and I'm getting a kick....

I wonder if the museum's attorneys signed off on this exhibit?

Do you have any insight as to what may be going on here? Any legal precedents or reasons for the FBI involvement?

Art forgery is illegal nationally and internationally.  As in the FBI and Interpol get involved.  This particular exhibit had a few headlines on Fark over the past month about suspicion of it being all forgeries.


As a professional in the field, please help with your knowledge if you can. I get that selling forgeries is a crime. Exhibiting them and charging admission must be to. How are museums protected? Are museums liable if they mistakenly exhibit a forgery?
 
2022-06-24 10:42:29 PM  

Chinesenookiefactory: NM Volunteer: freakingmoron: raerae1980: I work in an art museum and I'm getting a kick....

I wonder if the museum's attorneys signed off on this exhibit?

Do you have any insight as to what may be going on here? Any legal precedents or reasons for the FBI involvement?

Art forgery is illegal nationally and internationally.  As in the FBI and Interpol get involved.  This particular exhibit had a few headlines on Fark over the past month about suspicion of it being all forgeries.

As a professional in the field, please help with your knowledge if you can. I get that selling forgeries is a crime. Exhibiting them and charging admission must be to. How are museums protected? Are museums liable if they mistakenly exhibit a forgery?


Didn't mean to leave you out raerae1980. I'm genuinely curious. I understand due diligence but man. A determined artist with real talent could cause damage.
 
2022-06-24 10:45:40 PM  

Chinesenookiefactory: Chinesenookiefactory: NM Volunteer: freakingmoron: raerae1980: I work in an art museum and I'm getting a kick....

I wonder if the museum's attorneys signed off on this exhibit?

Do you have any insight as to what may be going on here? Any legal precedents or reasons for the FBI involvement?

Art forgery is illegal nationally and internationally.  As in the FBI and Interpol get involved.  This particular exhibit had a few headlines on Fark over the past month about suspicion of it being all forgeries.

As a professional in the field, please help with your knowledge if you can. I get that selling forgeries is a crime. Exhibiting them and charging admission must be to. How are museums protected? Are museums liable if they mistakenly exhibit a forgery?

Didn't mean to leave you out raerae1980. I'm genuinely curious. I understand due diligence but man. A determined artist with real talent could cause damage.


Or have 1980s movies deceived me once again?
 
2022-06-24 10:54:08 PM  
Some of those looked good, some of those look like they belong on a refrigerator.
 
2022-06-24 10:54:16 PM  

Daer21: Art is a bourgeoisie institution. An affront to humanity. Every gallery should be bulldozed and every artist given 30 years of hard labor in Yekokata


I did my hard labor in NYC advertising for 30 years, not much art involved other than having basic knowledge.  My relations with my conglomerate and JP Morgan has me actually looking at retirement in two years with glee.
/starting to feel the poison my wife has been giving me for awhile
 
2022-06-24 11:00:24 PM  
Why couldn't the stormtroopers have waited until the 29th when the exhibition is over?

The cost of putting on an exhibition is huge for a museum and maybe the final five days is 'profit,' or pays their website bill or PR firm.
 
2022-06-24 11:06:21 PM  
Money laundering is easier thanks to the Blockchain & NFTs
 
2022-06-24 11:15:47 PM  

Mr. Shabooboo: I'm not quite sure why this is a legal matter and not a civil matter..The items were not for sale..
They were just being shown..The estate or person(s) holding the rights to his works might complain,
but that's a civil matter between the three of them (owner,Basquit estate, and museum)..

There have been numerous museum exhibits where fakes were shown..For decades..
Fake Picasso's, Fake Monet, Fake Pollack, Fake archeological/ethnographic items...I don't get the need for
the FBI to rush in and grab shat off the walls and keep it all hush hush..

Unless the items were owned by some sanctioned Russian oligarch and are being appropriated,
it seems a bit over the top to grab stuff from a museum over a civil dispute of authenticity..


The FBI has caught on to what the DEA has known for decades, property seizure is profitable
 
2022-06-24 11:16:46 PM  

NM Volunteer: When it's intentionally being highlighted as a forgery, then it is okay.  If they are claiming it is real and not fake, then it is a federal crime.


Legal citations, please.

A lot of art is sold on the basis of the opinion (s) of art experts. If they get it wrong, it's a civil matter, not criminal.

The only way it might be criminal is if the "expert" is intentionally certifying fakes as the real thing, but I would imagine the art community knows who the real experts are, and when an item is valued at 9 figures, the owner and auction house get multiple experts to verify the authenticity.

I think a more plausible scheme is using the art for money laundering. Winner pay in dirty cash, and the auction house makes it clean.
 
2022-06-24 11:21:31 PM  

indy_kid: NM Volunteer: When it's intentionally being highlighted as a forgery, then it is okay.  If they are claiming it is real and not fake, then it is a federal crime.

Legal citations, please.

A lot of art is sold on the basis of the opinion (s) of art experts. If they get it wrong, it's a civil matter, not criminal.

The only way it might be criminal is if the "expert" is intentionally certifying fakes as the real thing, but I would imagine the art community knows who the real experts are, and when an item is valued at 9 figures, the owner and auction house get multiple experts to verify the authenticity.

I think a more plausible scheme is using the art for money laundering. Winner pay in dirty cash, and the auction house makes it clean.


Fraud is a criminal matter.  Fraud is illegal.  How on earth is fraud not a criminal matter?
 
2022-06-24 11:28:01 PM  

Thosw: Was watching a 2017 episode of Antiques Roadshow and the appraiser said there *used* to be a consortium of people who would authenticate Basquiat's work, but they had disbanded years before.


Csb
 
2022-06-24 11:59:48 PM  

Daer21: Art is a bourgeoisie institution. An affront to humanity. Every gallery should be bulldozed and every artist given 30 years of hard labor in Yekokata


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-06-25 12:11:03 AM  

raerae1980: I work in an art museum and I'm getting a kick....

I wonder if the museum's attorneys signed off on this exhibit?


I think they're more consultants than overseers.  Unlike the crack and smack dealers to dear ol Basquiat.
 
2022-06-25 12:11:57 AM  

AlwaysRightBoy: raerae1980: I work in an art museum and I'm getting a kick....

I wonder if the museum's attorneys signed off on this exhibit?

Arts worth is in the eye of the beholder, you should know this.
Art history 101 minor with a major in illustration and photography, both of which did me no good in life. Face it, advertising is the only way in life.

/You'll love selling yourself out to make a living
//or move to Italy


You minor was only one course? And you split your major then couldn't get a job? I'm going to guess you had no interest or talent for any of it
 
2022-06-25 12:38:31 AM  

Por que tan serioso: I am not really a fan and never understood this art.


Do as much drugs as the Cy Twombly meets Banksy dude and you might.
 
2022-06-25 12:45:40 AM  

chitownmike: AlwaysRightBoy: raerae1980: I work in an art museum and I'm getting a kick....

I wonder if the museum's attorneys signed off on this exhibit?

Arts worth is in the eye of the beholder, you should know this.
Art history 101 minor with a major in illustration and photography, both of which did me no good in life. Face it, advertising is the only way in life.

/You'll love selling yourself out to make a living
//or move to Italy

You minor was only one course? And you split your major then couldn't get a job? I'm going to guess you had no interest or talent for any of it


Art history was manitory for a worhless career. See the enlightened one.
 
2022-06-25 1:19:13 AM  

Daer21: Art is a bourgeoisie institution. An affront to humanity. Every gallery should be bulldozed and every artist given 30 years of hard labor in Yekokata


Or in real socialist terms, art is the creative center of revolution. The creative energy of the artist drives the imagination of the futurist and the revolution to equal degree, art is an essential part of the social renewal process.

A couple of rich jerks deciding to mutually agree to stash money in art as a token asset to avoid some degree of transfer taxes and make their money portable is irrespective of the value of art itself to the human experience and condition.
 
2022-06-25 2:45:58 AM  
I was pretty sure there's been reports on that exhibit and the "Fedex box that couldn't exist before the artist's death" thing a few weeks ago ?
 
2022-06-25 4:11:03 AM  

Daer21: Art is a bourgeoisie institution. An affront to humanity. Every gallery should be bulldozed and every artist given 30 years of hard labor in Yekokata


Round up all the intellectuals and ship them off the reeducation farms in Oklahoma so they can learn real agrarian proletariat values too, amirite?
 
2022-06-25 5:43:47 AM  

Thosw: Was watching a 2017 episode of Antiques Roadshow and the appraiser said there *used* to be a consortium of people who would authenticate Basquiat's work, but they had disbanded years before.


Hell, Last night we were watching Antiques Roadshow and some guy had a piece of...art (supposedly) by him; it was just in pencil, no painting, and the expert gave it a value of over $400k.   The doodle included a crown, which they said is common in his works.
 
2022-06-25 5:47:26 AM  

Mr. Shabooboo: I'm not quite sure why this is a legal matter and not a civil matter..The items were not for sale..
They were just being shown..The estate or person(s) holding the rights to his works might complain,
but that's a civil matter between the three of them (owner,Basquit estate, and museum)..

There have been numerous museum exhibits where fakes were shown..For decades..
Fake Picasso's, Fake Monet, Fake Pollack, Fake archeological/ethnographic items...I don't get the need for
the FBI to rush in and grab shat off the walls and keep it all hush hush..

Unless the items were owned by some sanctioned Russian oligarch and are being appropriated,
it seems a bit over the top to grab stuff from a museum over a civil dispute of authenticity..


They may not have been for sale, but whoever owns them may not be the (alleged) forgers, so were ripped off at some point.
 
2022-06-25 6:57:07 AM  

chitownmike: AlwaysRightBoy: raerae1980: I work in an art museum and I'm getting a kick....

I wonder if the museum's attorneys signed off on this exhibit?

Arts worth is in the eye of the beholder, you should know this.
Art history 101 minor with a major in illustration and photography, both of which did me no good in life. Face it, advertising is the only way in life.

/You'll love selling yourself out to make a living
//or move to Italy

You minor was only one course? And you split your major then couldn't get a job? I'm going to guess you had no interest or talent for any of it


I did very well in art history for 2.5 years, it's all very interesting  and is great for when you are seeing the world and going to the places where it applies. I have enjoyed all my knowledge of it when on my ventures around the world. To attempt to make a living as an art history major you'd have to be nuts. I was told after 3.5 years  in illustration and photography that only 5 percent of us would be able to make a living of it. Went straight into NYC advertising and carved out a successful life.

/poolside at the moment  in my paid off home
 
2022-06-25 7:08:09 AM  
Seems like a great place to mention the great 20th century Chinese artist, Chang Dai-chien.

Not Fark: He was a great artist in his own right.

Fark: As a master forger of classic Chinese art he would even forge "ancient" documents giving the provenance of his forged, previously unknown and undiscovered works. These documents would end up in some dull academic archive. The the art would be forged. Then the document would be discovered establishing authenticity of the work. He would also scour archives for lists of "lost" works and then forge them with ready made provenance. He was a student of the ink, brushes, papers, and frames used for the appropriate era of the forgeries.

Uber Fark: He was so good that many museum curators assume that some of their Chinese art pieces are likely undetectable forgeries by Chang Dai-chien.
 
2022-06-25 2:04:18 PM  

Mad Bowl Hoo: Thosw: Was watching a 2017 episode of Antiques Roadshow and the appraiser said there *used* to be a consortium of people who would authenticate Basquiat's work, but they had disbanded years before.

Hell, Last night we were watching Antiques Roadshow and some guy had a piece of...art (supposedly) by him; it was just in pencil, no painting, and the expert gave it a value of over $400k.   The doodle included a crown, which they said is common in his works.


That's the episode I was referring to.
 
2022-06-25 2:16:02 PM  
AlwaysRightBoy:

Art history was manitory for a worhless career. See the enlightened one.

Disagree: My wife is an Art History major, with a masters in Museum Education.  She teaches teachers how to use the museum in a classroom setting, and how to tour it in order to have a visit relevant to their curriculum, at any age.  She did this for colleges at MOMA, she did this for high-school classes at Philps Academy's gallery (The Addison, which is farking world-class for American art.)  She teaches and organizes the docents of any museum she works at.  It's a terrific career if you love art, and she makes a solid middle class income with a decent health care package for our family, plus summers off when she worked at Philips Academy.

Just because you value people on their take-home income doesn't we all do, universally.
 
2022-06-25 5:38:15 PM  

Thosw: Mad Bowl Hoo: Thosw: Was watching a 2017 episode of Antiques Roadshow and the appraiser said there *used* to be a consortium of people who would authenticate Basquiat's work, but they had disbanded years before.

Hell, Last night we were watching Antiques Roadshow and some guy had a piece of...art (supposedly) by him; it was just in pencil, no painting, and the expert gave it a value of over $400k.   The doodle included a crown, which they said is common in his works.

That's the episode I was referring to.


Yeah, it was too early in the morning to be posting, the lightbulb over my head went on about 10 seconds after I hit 'enter comment' and figured it was same episode.
 
2022-06-26 12:01:53 AM  
I first heard of Basquiat because of Lil Wayne and Rick Ross.
 
2022-06-26 12:14:54 AM  

Mad Bowl Hoo: Mr. Shabooboo: I'm not quite sure why this is a legal matter and not a civil matter..The items were not for sale..
They were just being shown..The estate or person(s) holding the rights to his works might complain,
but that's a civil matter between the three of them (owner,Basquit estate, and museum)..

There have been numerous museum exhibits where fakes were shown..For decades..
Fake Picasso's, Fake Monet, Fake Pollack, Fake archeological/ethnographic items...I don't get the need for
the FBI to rush in and grab shat off the walls and keep it all hush hush..

Unless the items were owned by some sanctioned Russian oligarch and are being appropriated,
it seems a bit over the top to grab stuff from a museum over a civil dispute of authenticity..

They may not have been for sale, but whoever owns them may not be the (alleged) forgers, so were ripped off at some point.


The owner is still claiming they are real..If they aren't for sale..Then I still don't see why the FBI is running
in and taking something off a museum wall..If the museum thought they were real, no harm no foul.
If the museum knew they were fake, well, I'm not sure WHAT the law is on that..But merely asking them to
take them down for verification or return them to the owner then get a warrant, that would seem, enough..
This is between the owner and the person(s) they bought them from...Unless there is some authenticity verified or denied, I'm not seeing what the crime is.. If they are fake, they have no value anyway..Paper your bathroom with them, big whoop.. If they are real, then maybe the FBI might want to know provenance IF they suspect them being used in some sort of money laundering scheme. But it all seems VERY heavy handed and
unnecessary to do this in the museum setting when the items don't belong to them.

Did the FBI come in and confiscate from the walls and cases stuff from the Hobby Lobby jeebus museum?

It seems...odd...that they are jumping at this particular situation..There HAS to be way more to this
story than some potentially fake art being displayed and passed off...


As a post script...

Why isn't the FBI breaking down the doors and taking this fake Renoir off the wall? If they are so concern about fake art/artifacts being bought and sold, they have a lot of work to do...
 
2022-06-26 3:49:51 AM  

deadsanta: AlwaysRightBoy:

Art history was manitory for a worhless career. See the enlightened one.

Disagree: My wife is an Art History major, with a masters in Museum Education.  She teaches teachers how to use the museum in a classroom setting, and how to tour it in order to have a visit relevant to their curriculum, at any age.  She did this for colleges at MOMA, she did this for high-school classes at Philps Academy's gallery (The Addison, which is farking world-class for American art.)  She teaches and organizes the docents of any museum she works at.  It's a terrific career if you love art, and she makes a solid middle class income with a decent health care package for our family, plus summers off when she worked at Philips Academy.

Just because you value people on their take-home income doesn't we all do, universally.


Very good for her, I wasn't trying to say it's a worthless career just that very few can make a career out of it.
 
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