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(Medical Xpress)   Prescribing opiates after surgery just leads to Fonzie moping around on your couch whining about his knee. Most postoperative patients can be given over the counter analgesics for their pain   (medicalxpress.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Opioid, Pain, Anesthesia, opioid analgesics, Morphine, Surgery, postoperative pain, new study  
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435 clicks; posted to STEM » on 20 Jun 2022 at 6:35 PM (14 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



37 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-06-20 5:26:11 PM  
Most civilized countries don't put you back on the street a couple hours after what they cheerfully call a "major surgery". I got carved up last week, and if I hadn't had pain meds, I would have been back at their ER until I was admitted or was given some. Still painful a week later.
 
2022-06-20 5:46:18 PM  
I had open heart surgery, and I'll readily admit that with all those freshly broken ribs, I took opiates when they came around. For the first few days of ICU, and then I asked to be scaled back to acetaminophen, because I value taking a sh*t more than pain relief. I went home with a scrip that I never filled, for that same reason. Opiates have their place, but I'm not a fan of using them for any extended period. Yes, ribs knitting back together sucks, along with all the places they cut open and sewed shut, but what I find is that the hospital stay exacerbates the introspection into your pain, and that intensifies it. Opiods help you not care if it hurts or not, but the fog they put you in is not my favorite either, because you can't really distract yourself all that well, so when it comes around time for your dosage, you REALLY know it's coming around. I'd rather get used to the background and move on from there.

But that's me. I know that I'm a control freak, and I hate being foggy and the edges blending for too long. Not really a fan of weed either, because it lasts too long. I'd rather just sort of dull things a bit, and still have my wits about me. Your results may vary.

I saw my Dad's third wife get addicted to opiods. I saw my father addicted to opiods--he hurt his back in Germany and it took years to get sorted out, and in the mean time, the Army just shoved pills at him--so it may even be less wanting to be clear headed than fear of addiction. But pooping...being able to poop is high on my list, and I stick that is the side effect that I hate most with opiods.
 
2022-06-20 5:52:34 PM  
There's no way I would have coped with over the counter when I broke my wrist. I didn't need to take them for too long, but I definitely needed them.
 
2022-06-20 6:47:39 PM  
Tool - Opiate / The Gaping Lotus Experience (Lyrics in description)
Youtube GZuFnn2fMHQ
 
2022-06-20 6:49:04 PM  
Scrubs Analgesic
Youtube CWGi1k1BHV0
 
2022-06-20 6:52:51 PM  
There is a group of people who have never felt pain and they think we have never felt it.
 
2022-06-20 7:04:56 PM  

Valter: There is a group of people who have never felt pain and they think we have never felt it.


I firmly wish recurring sciatica on anyone up on stump screeching about painkillers.
 
2022-06-20 7:07:29 PM  
Part of a much longer story..

I landed in ER with having extreme pain in my lower abdomen and back side. The pain was so intense that I was screaming loudly and uncontrollably. Staff sent through a few different pain cocktails, all by IV, before I finally calmed down. It turned out I was bleeding internally, due to an accident the previous day, coupled with the fact that I am permanently on 'blood thinners'.

I can usually handle a lot, but internal bleeding is by far the very most painful thing I ever endured in my life.
 
2022-06-20 7:12:08 PM  
I had appendicitis close to 20 years ago. Never again do i want to be on morphine. I was glad for the oxy. But i never finished my bottle. I do notlike the aftermath after the 'i don't give a fark about the world' state. Emotionally it feels embarrasing.

Then again, between sinus headaches, feet pain, backaches, and now arthritis in my lower back, i eat ibuprofen for breakfast. Benzos mess me up the day after.

I will say tizanidine for my back at night does ok. Not 100%. But i can stand a little pain and mostly get a somewhat decent night sleep. Difficulty is that im supposed to avoid alcohol and tizanidine at the same time.
 
2022-06-20 7:23:32 PM  
Tylenol didn't cut it after a recent root canal, and I can't take NSAIDs thanks to a history of gastric ulcer and having to take aspirin post-stent.

So, to the bottle of decade-old oxycodone for relief.
 
2022-06-20 7:29:05 PM  
When madhonib had a cancerous kidney removed, despite specific instructions that I reviewed with the Attending and the Nursing staff, they gave her nsaids instead of her normal morphine. She was in tears and begged me to bring her meds from the house. I must have hit 95mph on the way to the hospital.
 
2022-06-20 7:29:19 PM  

hubiestubert: But pooping...being able to poop is high on my list, and I stick that is the side effect that I hate most with opiods.


CSB/TMI: I wasn't warned about that side effect when I had to have a testicle removed around 16 years ago.  Being stopped up for days, then really having to go because you're full, but unable to push without hurting waaaay more and worrying about ripping my internal stitches? Absolute misery.  On a happy note, it wasn't cancer.
 
2022-06-20 7:30:27 PM  
Only a nerd would laugh at Fonzie's pain.

Happy Days · Fonzie's Pain
Youtube fFIQ_tNx2Gs
 
2022-06-20 7:32:43 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: There's no way I would have coped with over the counter when I broke my wrist. I didn't need to take them for too long, but I definitely needed them.


Oh my god.. tell me about it!

I split my shinbone down the middle and broke my wrist in an accident

The broken wrist was BLINDINGLY painful.. my shin split down the middle was nothing in comparison

I had to wait a week for a specialist to arrive to reconstruct the wrist.. I screamed in pain everyday.. I screamed "cut it off!!"... "Give me a hook!!"..  "cut it off!!" "HOOK...give me a HOOK!!"

Never in my life ever imagined a broken wrist could be so painful.

They never gave me anything good enough to even touch it.

But I'm here to say a broken wrist is no joke - most painful thing I've ever experienced by a mile
 
2022-06-20 7:36:59 PM  
liftnbalance.comView Full Size
 
2022-06-20 7:51:54 PM  

hubiestubert: I had open heart surgery, and I'll readily admit that with all those freshly broken ribs, I took opiates when they came around. For the first few days of ICU, and then I asked to be scaled back to acetaminophen, because I value taking a sh*t more than pain relief. I went home with a scrip that I never filled, for that same reason. Opiates have their place, but I'm not a fan of using them for any extended period. Yes, ribs knitting back together sucks, along with all the places they cut open and sewed shut, but what I find is that the hospital stay exacerbates the introspection into your pain, and that intensifies it. Opiods help you not care if it hurts or not, but the fog they put you in is not my favorite either, because you can't really distract yourself all that well, so when it comes around time for your dosage, you REALLY know it's coming around. I'd rather get used to the background and move on from there.


I had abdominal surgery, where they cut me open and "gutted me like a fish" (removed 2/3 of my large intestines and several chunks of my small intestine) then instead of stapling/sowing me completely back shut, they did some of it, then put me on a wound vac to suck it closed so I would heal from the inside out.  They insisted that I have the opiates for the first couple of days, which I grudgingly used for the first day.  Then I insisted on being switched to Tylenol.  By the time I was released (still with the wound vac, which when they peel out the sponges to change them hurts like a Mo-Fo, I was just taking a blend of Ibuprofen and  Acetaminophen) the pain I was experiencing was down to background pain.  Easily tolerable.  On the days when I had to go in for wound vac changes, they kept trying to insist on giving me opiates, but I refused, since I was driving myself there.  Between my headphones playing relaxing music and my deep breathing meditation, I kept the pain down.  Drugs are a crutch for people who cant handle reality.
 
2022-06-20 8:03:43 PM  
Cracked then broke 2 ribs after falling on my side on a tree stump. Ribs broke after a sneeze. The pain was immediate and all consuming. No way to get through anything similar without opiates. They gave me one 2 week run with a repeat. Did one and a half. I am lucky because opiates are not attractive in the least to me outside of their intended purpose.
 
2022-06-20 8:19:37 PM  

Warmachine999: I had abdominal surgery, where they cut me open and "gutted me like a fish" (removed 2/3 of my large intestines and several chunks of my small intestine) then instead of stapling/sowing me completely back shut, they did some of it, then put me on a wound vac to suck it closed so I would heal from the inside out.  They insisted that I have the opiates for the first couple of days, which I grudgingly used for the first day.  Then I insisted on being switched to Tylenol.  By the time I was released (still with the wound vac, which when they peel out the sponges to change them hurts like a Mo-Fo, I was just taking a blend of Ibuprofen and  Acetaminophen) the pain I was experiencing was down to background pain.  Easily tolerable.  On the days when I had to go in for wound vac changes, they kept trying to insist on giving me opiates, but I refused, since I was driving myself there.  Between my headphones playing relaxing music and my deep breathing meditation, I kept the pain down.  Drugs are a crutch for people who cant handle reality.


I wouldn't go that far. While there is a general tendency to throw opiates around like they're Pez at some folks, there are legitimate uses and folks who DO need it. We developed them, and continue to use them for a reason. From burns, to deep trauma, and more.

I have a healthy respect for opioids. Getting split right down the sternum and getting stuff spliced in does a heckuva thing to you. There are conditions where pain is a management nightmare. My respect also goes to the long term effects too, and I may just be paranoid because of my folks' experiences.

I do think that a lot of doctors throw opioids around like candy sometimes, and that hasn't exactly helped a lot of folks, but that doesn't mean that they aren't necessary for some folks and conditions. Like damn near everything in life, the only right answer is "It depends."
 
2022-06-20 9:06:47 PM  
I would just remind people that only certain meds, like antibiotics, need to be taken as directed. Pain meds, especially the addictive ones, are not like that. Just because it says you can take two every six hours doesn't mean you have to take two every six hours until the bottle is empty. Some people are in extreme pain 24/7. If this is you then take the pain pills, addiction is the least of your worries.

The rest of you need to do what I did when I was recovering from surgery, tough it out and save the high strength pain meds for those times when toughing it out isn't working. You won't get addicted if you only sporadically take the meds. If on a scale of one to ten, you are functional until the pain hits eight, then you should not be taking pain meds until the pain level hits 7, thereby cutting off the pain before you redline. Too many people keep taking the pain meds trying to get the pain level as close to zero as possible. That's self indulgent and might lead to addiction.
 
2022-06-20 9:17:27 PM  
I was dispensed oxy after colorectal surgery (haemorrhoids, since you ask). Definitely overkill for that. I didn't even need paracetamol.
 
2022-06-20 9:28:30 PM  

Shryke: Valter: There is a group of people who have never felt pain and they think we have never felt it.

I firmly wish recurring sciatica on anyone up on stump screeching about painkillers.


Yep.

My story will not be popular here, but I was a dad with young children and no safety net at one time, and I was in blinding pain, and had been for a week before I saw a doctor. He told me he could give me drugs, surgery, or maybe massage, but he thought there was no way the latter would work.

Well. I had to drive and I had to work, so no drugs. Knowing that this doctor had a drinking problem, there was no way I was going under his knife, so I did nothing... for 5 months.

By the end of that time, my pelvis was about two inches over from where my shoulders said they should be. That was how my body adjusted to the pain... by contorting itself. But I did not miss a day of work and my family was fed and my house got paid for.

Then I took that family and that body on a flight back to the US for my brother's wedding. I had to carry my daughter and my luggage through airports. It was excruciating. Northwest lost my stroller AND cracked me in the knee with a drink cart in the plane aisle. It was slapstick level hell. My dad took me to a chiropractor and I got instant relief. But temporary. Got back to Japan and did it for another two months, with many ups and downs. But it freaking worked.

That is my sciatica story. True hell. Hell. But I know people who have gone the other routes, with bad results. My biggest regret is just "knowing" that there was no way that chiropracty would work. I know there are charlatans, but I just about cried when the guy took away my pain in about 30 seconds. Others' mileage is guaranteed to vary. I make no claims. Just telling my story.

/ It bothers me when Cpractors say dumb things. They seem to be very good at what they do. They should do that and not try to be crazy people.
 
2022-06-20 9:29:44 PM  
One of the interesting things that happened after medical pot became legal in various states is that the number of prescription opioid deaths per capita dropped.

For some people, the combination of pot with less intense pain meds was enough.  People with long term pain (say from an old back injury) that isn't going to go away need a better option like that.

hubiestubert: While there is a general tendency to throw opiates around like they're Pez at some folks, there are legitimate uses and folks who DO need it.


If you're dying of cancer you can have all the opioids you want, even to the point of deciding you're ready to check out if your pain can no longer be managed without a dose that would be borderline fatal.

Also, after a catastrophic injury like a car wreck, they are absolutely called for in the short term.

You get in trouble when you're using opioids for everyday pain that isn't going to go away as you mend.
 
2022-06-20 9:30:57 PM  
I was given oxy after my LASIK surgery. My wife insisted I take one before bed, took another in the morning. Switched to aspirin* after that. Still have most of the oxy.

*Yes, taking aspirin will make you bleed to death!!!!!   I spent an entire day digging for a real study on it: taking aspirin daily increases your chance of developing bleeding ulcers from 1.6 per thousand patient-years to 1.8. That's based on 660,000 patient-years in a UK study.
 
2022-06-21 12:51:02 AM  

2fardownthread: Shryke: Valter: There is a group of people who have never felt pain and they think we have never felt it.

I firmly wish recurring sciatica on anyone up on stump screeching about painkillers.

Yep.

My story will not be popular here, but I was a dad with young children and no safety net at one time, and I was in blinding pain, and had been for a week before I saw a doctor. He told me he could give me drugs, surgery, or maybe massage, but he thought there was no way the latter would work.

Well. I had to drive and I had to work, so no drugs. Knowing that this doctor had a drinking problem, there was no way I was going under his knife, so I did nothing... for 5 months.

By the end of that time, my pelvis was about two inches over from where my shoulders said they should be. That was how my body adjusted to the pain... by contorting itself. But I did not miss a day of work and my family was fed and my house got paid for.

Then I took that family and that body on a flight back to the US for my brother's wedding. I had to carry my daughter and my luggage through airports. It was excruciating. Northwest lost my stroller AND cracked me in the knee with a drink cart in the plane aisle. It was slapstick level hell. My dad took me to a chiropractor and I got instant relief. But temporary. Got back to Japan and did it for another two months, with many ups and downs. But it freaking worked.

That is my sciatica story. True hell. Hell. But I know people who have gone the other routes, with bad results. My biggest regret is just "knowing" that there was no way that chiropracty would work. I know there are charlatans, but I just about cried when the guy took away my pain in about 30 seconds. Others' mileage is guaranteed to vary. I make no claims. Just telling my story.

/ It bothers me when Cpractors say dumb things. They seem to be very good at what they do. They should do that and not try to be crazy people.


Just let the chiropractor do what they do best: wrench your bones. They are really really good at that. But when they start going on about other stuff, ignore them.
 
2022-06-21 1:02:05 AM  

hubiestubert: I had open heart surgery, and I'll readily admit that with all those freshly broken ribs, I took opiates when they came around. For the first few days of ICU, and then I asked to be scaled back to acetaminophen, because I value taking a sh*t more than pain relief. I went home with a scrip that I never filled, for that same reason. Opiates have their place, but I'm not a fan of using them for any extended period. Yes, ribs knitting back together sucks, along with all the places they cut open and sewed shut, but what I find is that the hospital stay exacerbates the introspection into your pain, and that intensifies it. Opiods help you not care if it hurts or not, but the fog they put you in is not my favorite either, because you can't really distract yourself all that well, so when it comes around time for your dosage, you REALLY know it's coming around. I'd rather get used to the background and move on from there.

But that's me. I know that I'm a control freak, and I hate being foggy and the edges blending for too long. Not really a fan of weed either, because it lasts too long. I'd rather just sort of dull things a bit, and still have my wits about me. Your results may vary.

I saw my Dad's third wife get addicted to opiods. I saw my father addicted to opiods--he hurt his back in Germany and it took years to get sorted out, and in the mean time, the Army just shoved pills at him--so it may even be less wanting to be clear headed than fear of addiction. But pooping...being able to poop is high on my list, and I stick that is the side effect that I hate most with opiods.


Ya my dad got run over by a truck and I had to teach him how to read again after 90 days of morphine in the icu.

This was the guy whose bookshelves I raided of all the Aristotle, Plato, de Sade, Jung, LaMour, Heinlein, etc I could get, escape fiction you name it.

Opioids are twiiiiiisted.
 
2022-06-21 1:03:28 AM  

CoonAce: hubiestubert: I had open heart surgery, and I'll readily admit that with all those freshly broken ribs, I took opiates when they came around. For the first few days of ICU, and then I asked to be scaled back to acetaminophen, because I value taking a sh*t more than pain relief. I went home with a scrip that I never filled, for that same reason. Opiates have their place, but I'm not a fan of using them for any extended period. Yes, ribs knitting back together sucks, along with all the places they cut open and sewed shut, but what I find is that the hospital stay exacerbates the introspection into your pain, and that intensifies it. Opiods help you not care if it hurts or not, but the fog they put you in is not my favorite either, because you can't really distract yourself all that well, so when it comes around time for your dosage, you REALLY know it's coming around. I'd rather get used to the background and move on from there.

But that's me. I know that I'm a control freak, and I hate being foggy and the edges blending for too long. Not really a fan of weed either, because it lasts too long. I'd rather just sort of dull things a bit, and still have my wits about me. Your results may vary.

I saw my Dad's third wife get addicted to opiods. I saw my father addicted to opiods--he hurt his back in Germany and it took years to get sorted out, and in the mean time, the Army just shoved pills at him--so it may even be less wanting to be clear headed than fear of addiction. But pooping...being able to poop is high on my list, and I stick that is the side effect that I hate most with opiods.

Ya my dad got run over by a truck and I had to teach him how to read again after 90 days of morphine in the icu.

This was the guy whose bookshelves I raided of all the Aristotle, Plato, de Sade, Jung, LaMour, Heinlein, etc I could get, escape fiction you name it.

Opioids are twiiiiiisted.


And people go to dark places when they get strung out on opioids, morphine, what have you.
 
2022-06-21 2:16:31 AM  
Knee, I needed them for about 3 days.

shoulder +split scapula+ humerus-driven-through-the-bicep (nearly lost the arm, good times) , about a month's worth of pills after  2 procedures, that sucked. (Epilepsy + sleeping on arm funny during a Grand Mal)

Shoulder surgery after the reconstruction, straight down through the top to separate my clavicle and scapula where they grew together  through the suprascapular channel after the above , nearly severing the nerve, not a single pill

Of course, the complete lack of sensation from the  massive  nerve damage was a bit of a cheat, but I could feel my hand again immediately., just not my shoulder... still can't 2 years later.
 
2022-06-21 5:52:28 AM  
Then they came for pain meds after surgery. I had knee surgery. Stopped pain meds too soon and immediately regretted it and restarted them for a few more days. Hated the itching sensation the meds gave me but at least not in pain.
 
2022-06-21 6:08:23 AM  
I just had 10 teeth out, bone shaved on the inside front of my jaw on both sides, and 4 implants put in to base the dentures that I will be getting. The doctor gave me five 5mg hydrocodone. I took 1 immediately when I got them, 1 later that night, 2 during the next day and one left over for the day after. I really could have used another 5, the pain was that bad and I can take pain - I broke my arm when I was 10, didn't complain and had to have it rebroken at the hospital a month later when my mom noticed I couldn't open a drawer. They didn't even give me an aspirin for the re-break.
 
2022-06-21 7:16:24 AM  

Shryke: Valter: There is a group of people who have never felt pain and they think we have never felt it.

I firmly wish recurring sciatica on anyone up on stump screeching about painkillers.


I'll see your sciatica and raise you being run over by a truck. Still not a good idea to hand out too many opioids.
 
2022-06-21 7:21:27 AM  

Birnone: I would just remind people that only certain meds, like antibiotics, need to be taken as directed. Pain meds, especially the addictive ones, are not like that. Just because it says you can take two every six hours doesn't mean you have to take two every six hours until the bottle is empty. Some people are in extreme pain 24/7. If this is you then take the pain pills, addiction is the least of your worries.

The rest of you need to do what I did when I was recovering from surgery, tough it out and save the high strength pain meds for those times when toughing it out isn't working. You won't get addicted if you only sporadically take the meds. If on a scale of one to ten, you are functional until the pain hits eight, then you should not be taking pain meds until the pain level hits 7, thereby cutting off the pain before you redline. Too many people keep taking the pain meds trying to get the pain level as close to zero as possible. That's self indulgent and might lead to addiction.


If you are functional at an 8, it's not an 8. 9 is uncontrollable screaming, 10 is semi-concious. 8 is unable to do anything but not scream.
 
2022-06-21 9:49:42 AM  
I took some hydrocodone (?) following a lumpectomy for breast cancer.  It helped me sleep and deal with the pain, but I didn't need more than 1 or 2 following the surgery.  Advil worked fine.
 
2022-06-21 12:03:47 PM  
Yeah, I love how the bottle they gave my wife last week said to take 1 to 2 pills every 6 hours, but contained a grand total of 10 pills. Last week was a fun one... Gallbladder, which normally isn't major, but it put her in the ER twice in 24 hours.
 
2022-06-21 1:30:01 PM  
I had an appendectomy 20 years ago.  I was very grateful for pain meds, used them all, got one refill and then stopped.  Fark pain, and fark this "tough it out" bullshiat.
 
2022-06-21 1:40:22 PM  
Ch'yeah..... noooo... now i get that opiates can be addictive, and that you can develop a tolerance to them over time so that they're not as effective and you'll need more.. which is where pain management comes in..  the best i ever got was Percodan/Percoset after having 4 wisdom teeth out... and propofol after breaking my wrist and dislocating a few bones in my arm... no, nsaids/aspirin in that situation won't cut it.. most doctors here are pretty careful about prescribing opiods//opiates.. they won't give you the "good stuff" unless you show a real medical need or have a good reason for it, eg major surgery.  5-7 years ago i was recovering from major surgery and i got post operative double pneumonia with a partially collapsed lung... couldn't breathe, in great pain.. recovered... 1st thing i asked for was a shot of morphine.  Most times the best you'll get is Tylenol-3.  Only downside for me was the lack of pooping, which i dealt with. When i had no more major pain, i quit taking 'em...if you need 'em, then you should get 'em....
 
2022-06-21 2:16:53 PM  

hubiestubert: I saw my Dad's third wife get addicted to opiods. I saw my father addicted to opiods--he hurt his back in Germany and it took years to get sorted out, and in the mean time, the Army just shoved pills at him--so it may even be less wanting to be clear headed than fear of addiction. But pooping...being able to poop is high on my list, and I stick that is the side effect that I hate most with opiods.


Yeah, I've had very limited experience with them and that's very much an issue.

Daer21: If you are functional at an 8, it's not an 8. 9 is uncontrollable screaming, 10 is semi-concious. 8 is unable to do anything but not scream.


The problem is most of us simply don't have an adequate reference.
 
2022-06-21 4:17:19 PM  

Daer21: Shryke: Valter: There is a group of people who have never felt pain and they think we have never felt it.

I firmly wish recurring sciatica on anyone up on stump screeching about painkillers.

I'll see your sciatica and raise you being run over by a truck. Still not a good idea to hand out too many opioids.


I didn't say otherwise. They are certainly addictive.

The press gleefully reporting on fentanyl deaths and willfully conflating that with all other opioids is a farking joke.
 
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