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(NPR)   New AFL-CIO president, a woman seen here raising her fist in the common salute shared by leftist terrorists around the world, promises to build a 1-million socialist army to fight her War on Capitalism   (npr.org) divider line
    More: Scary, Trade union, Elizabeth Shuler, organization's convention, nation's largest labor federation, Fred Redmond, work of Shuler, President Biden, labor movement  
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2752 clicks; posted to Politics » and Main » on 17 Jun 2022 at 3:05 PM (24 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-06-17 1:27:38 PM  
AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAH

I am a member of a public employees union. So I am really getting a kick out of most of this article. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like unions are great for employees. But trust me.... they aren't always. I think you just want to assume unions are always run perfectly with every employee being treated fairly and equally, when in reality unions like mine end up being run by a clique who made sure they got big pay increases while I and others didn't, and then proceeded to LIE about it and not disclose it in the contract papers they presented us. This is how union members start getting disgruntled and quit the union under the Janus vs. AFSCME decision (thanks, SCOTUS).  If you don't know about how unions can go wrong... don't assume unions always benefit employees.  Cuz some people don't know how unions can turn against you.
 
2022-06-17 1:53:57 PM  
I smell fear
 
2022-06-17 2:18:29 PM  
I used to work on a dairy farm. That stench isn't fear.

I like how the OP claims to be a union member then thanks SC(R)OTUS for letting him opt out.
 
2022-06-17 2:31:55 PM  

null: AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAH

I am a member of a public employees union. So I am really getting a kick out of most of this article. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like unions are great for employees. But trust me.... they aren't always. I think you just want to assume unions are always run perfectly with every employee being treated fairly and equally, when in reality unions like mine end up being run by a clique who made sure they got big pay increases while I and others didn't, and then proceeded to LIE about it and not disclose it in the contract papers they presented us. This is how union members start getting disgruntled and quit the union under the Janus vs. AFSCME decision (thanks, SCOTUS).  If you don't know about how unions can go wrong... don't assume unions always benefit employees.  Cuz some people don't know how unions can turn against you.


I thought this meme was supposed to end with "Cause some farkers believe anything they hear".
 
2022-06-17 2:44:52 PM  

Bootleg: null: AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAH

I am a member of a public employees union. So I am really getting a kick out of most of this article. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like unions are great for employees. But trust me.... they aren't always. I think you just want to assume unions are always run perfectly with every employee being treated fairly and equally, when in reality unions like mine end up being run by a clique who made sure they got big pay increases while I and others didn't, and then proceeded to LIE about it and not disclose it in the contract papers they presented us. This is how union members start getting disgruntled and quit the union under the Janus vs. AFSCME decision (thanks, SCOTUS).  If you don't know about how unions can go wrong... don't assume unions always benefit employees.  Cuz some people don't know how unions can turn against you.

I thought this meme was supposed to end with "Cause some farkers believe anything they hear".


Yeah...  Incomplete contract presented for a membership vote?  Uh-huh.  My goodness, isn't that some bullshiat.

If it's not in the contract that was ratified, it's not in the contract.  Welcome to my Favorites list, "liar yellow 4" edition.
 
2022-06-17 2:45:46 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Bootleg: null: AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAH

I am a member of a public employees union. So I am really getting a kick out of most of this article. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like unions are great for employees. But trust me.... they aren't always. I think you just want to assume unions are always run perfectly with every employee being treated fairly and equally, when in reality unions like mine end up being run by a clique who made sure they got big pay increases while I and others didn't, and then proceeded to LIE about it and not disclose it in the contract papers they presented us. This is how union members start getting disgruntled and quit the union under the Janus vs. AFSCME decision (thanks, SCOTUS).  If you don't know about how unions can go wrong... don't assume unions always benefit employees.  Cuz some people don't know how unions can turn against you.

I thought this meme was supposed to end with "Cause some farkers believe anything they hear".

Yeah...  Incomplete contract presented for a membership vote?  Uh-huh.  My goodness, isn't that some bullshiat.

If it's not in the contract that was ratified, it's not in the contract.  Welcome to my Favorites list, "liar yellow 4" edition.


That was intended for null, not you, Bootleg.
 
2022-06-17 2:50:19 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: I used to work on a dairy farm. That stench isn't fear.

I like how the OP claims to be a union member then thanks SC(R)OTUS for letting him opt out.


That was sarcastic thanks as in Thanks, Obama, BTW.

So let me explain a few things here.

My union is a skilled trades union with carpenters and plumbers and such.

For some reason computer techs and the police department are part of it too.

The trades have a clique where they've held power in leadership, and they all work out of a central building, where most of the rest of us who aren't what you would traditionally call "blue-collar skilled trades" work elsewhere. I've never sat down and worked out the exact numbers but the split could be between 70-30% to near 50-50 trades vs the rest.

Naturally the police and the computer techs were the highest paid due to training and knowledge requirements and general cost of labor too.  There may also have been some extras to pay in the past that upset the apple cart, I don't know.

In the past two contracts the trades have been out to demand more because, as their arguments go, they're underpaid relative to what they could get at their respective trades union halls (if they take their journeymen cards and quit our employer and go work the trade in construction, for example) and relative to similar classifications in other public employer situations similar to ours.

Okay fine but I and others demanded they show their work on how they got their numbers in the previous contract and got told to go fuck off and look it all up ourselves, which only gives me ALL THE NUMBERS FOR EVERYWHERE, not which ones they cherrypicked to make their cases for themselves and against me.

Also for the record they eliminated a classification and put all the work on my classification and I got nothing for it, so I'm doing the work from two classifications rolled into one for the same rate as before they eliminated the classification.

Come this contract, we're presented with a wage table for the next three years and each column has a percentage increase at the top.  The contract was ratified.  Afterwards it's noticed that the numbers don't look right.

The numbers in the table do not reflect that percentage increase for the trades.  They got more.

They refuse to explain exactly how or why that happened and have blamed management for providing that table, claimed they got money last minute and allocated it appropriately, that this is part of a plan to make a 3-tier system, and my personal favorite, that we should have all spontaneously calculated the entire wage table ourselves to find out who was getting what where.  Which was said to us in this way: "You should have done the math".

That's on top of our union leadership not following the local and international constitutions, hell they didn't even know we had local and international constitutions or what was in them, and when confronted about their lack of knowledge cite how they've never been trained.  Funny thing though is that a lot of things are available on the international union web site if only they'd get off their fat lazy butts and find and read them, instead of worrying about how fast they can get to the bar after work or the union meetings.

As a result, I've got over a dozen people I can think of ready to quit the union (a dumb move because the union successfully instituted a Hotel California clause in the contract whereby you can quit the union any time you like but you cannot stop paying dues until the last 2 weeks of the contract.  Yes, seriously.)  And that's gonna be roughly 1/8 or more of the union gone if they do do that.

I'm also a steward and the last time I knew steward training to be held was before the pandemic and even then it was not widely publicized.  Hell, our union benefits aren't even publicized well, and we have FREE COLLEGE for union members AND FAMILY and shit like discounted pet health insurance.  I tell other members about that and they're like WHAT THE FUCK WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME ABOUT THIS MY WIFE IS GOING BACK TO SCHOOL AND I JUST PAID $2 GRAND BECAUSE MY STUPID DOG ATE MY SOCKS.  I mean seriously Jesus fucking Christ I'm the only person evangelizing for the union benefits, while my leadership can't even give meeting minutes to the members unable to come to the meeting.

I, personally, think it's GREAT to see Starbucks and elsewhere unionizing, and I keep my Mall*Wart shopping to a minimum because fuck Mall*Wart and their union-busting asses.  But I'm gonna tell everyone right now the only way unions work is if everyone in them works together instead of turning into a goddamn high-school drama or Mafia situation where if you're not in the right crowd or kissing the ring you get fucked over.

If you're gonna form a union or create a new local under an existing union umbrella, make sure you have read everything in the international constitution and local constitution and put safeguards in that allow corrupt people to be removed and fair elections and require that the contract be distributed a week in advance of the ratification and that all pay changes include a table of percentage adjustments or individual classification increases above or below a blanket percentage are individually specified in writing.
 
2022-06-17 3:07:16 PM  

null: AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAH

I am a member of a public employees union. So I am really getting a kick out of most of this article. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like unions are great for employees. But trust me.... they aren't always. I think you just want to assume unions are always run perfectly with every employee being treated fairly and equally, when in reality unions like mine end up being run by a clique who made sure they got big pay increases while I and others didn't, and then proceeded to LIE about it and not disclose it in the contract papers they presented us. This is how union members start getting disgruntled and quit the union under the Janus vs. AFSCME decision (thanks, SCOTUS).  If you don't know about how unions can go wrong... don't assume unions always benefit employees.  Cuz some people don't know how unions can turn against you.


Sure Jan.
 
2022-06-17 3:08:18 PM  
The only good union is the police union!
The one that protects the hard-working management.
 
2022-06-17 3:16:03 PM  
Management boot licker in 1. How does that fine Italian leather taste?
 
2022-06-17 3:16:48 PM  
A union may screw you. The owners certainly will.
 
2022-06-17 3:16:57 PM  
"... stop digging."
 
2022-06-17 3:17:14 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-06-17 3:19:17 PM  

null: AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAH

I am a member of a public employees union. So I am really getting a kick out of most of this article. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like unions are great for employees. But trust me.... they aren't always. I think you just want to assume unions are always run perfectly with every employee being treated fairly and equally, when in reality unions like mine end up being run by a clique who made sure they got big pay increases while I and others didn't, and then proceeded to LIE about it and not disclose it in the contract papers they presented us. This is how union members start getting disgruntled and quit the union under the Janus vs. AFSCME decision (thanks, SCOTUS).  If you don't know about how unions can go wrong... don't assume unions always benefit employees.  Cuz some people don't know how unions can turn against you.


A large organization made up of people can have people in power abuse that authority?
Subvert the organization?
That has never happened.
 
2022-06-17 3:19:37 PM  
Otherwise known as wanting a piece of the pie.
 
2022-06-17 3:19:57 PM  
Here's a personal unverified anecdote that proves all unions are crap, job creators are heroes, cilantro actually tastes good and Hitler had some good ideas
 
2022-06-17 3:20:31 PM  
War on Capitalism? Where do I enlist?
 
2022-06-17 3:20:36 PM  
From your mouth to God's ears.
 
2022-06-17 3:21:22 PM  
Now that's how you troll.

/Also there are no trolls on Fark.
 
2022-06-17 3:24:25 PM  
Subby outed themselves
 
2022-06-17 3:26:58 PM  
American style unions are mostly trash. They want companies to operate in a fixed manner with staffing requirements, even if the tech changes or the business declines. Some unions are good, provide a stable source of vetted talent, like welders or stage hands. Some of the examples I get from German unions is where they'll take a cut in pay or hours in a recession so they can rebound with the company they don't kill.
 
2022-06-17 3:27:19 PM  

null: AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAH

I am a member of a public employees union. So I am really getting a kick out of most of this article. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like unions are great for employees. But trust me.... they aren't always. I think you just want to assume unions are always run perfectly with every employee being treated fairly and equally, when in reality unions like mine end up being run by a clique who made sure they got big pay increases while I and others didn't, and then proceeded to LIE about it and not disclose it in the contract papers they presented us. This is how union members start getting disgruntled and quit the union under the Janus vs. AFSCME decision (thanks, SCOTUS).  If you don't know about how unions can go wrong... don't assume unions always benefit employees.  Cuz some people don't know how unions can turn against you.


Unions began as benevolent organizations. They were small, and they began with miners and other people who had dangerous jobs. They made sure that the owners of the mine or whatever business paid a living wage. They helped members who were injured on the job, and paid funeral expenses and supported their families when they were killed on the job. Some unions (e.g. the Molly Maguires) became essentially gangsters.

Somewhere along the line (thanks, Karl Marx) they became political and started to include every kind of worker, and do less for them, while doing more for themselves. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
 
2022-06-17 3:27:35 PM  
How are the benefits?
 
2022-06-17 3:32:40 PM  
Will the police union be joining this army?
 
2022-06-17 3:37:41 PM  
She seems so angry.
 
2022-06-17 3:39:25 PM  

Felix Tekat: War on Capitalism? Where do I enlist?


At your nearest college campus or public sector "workplace".
 
2022-06-17 3:40:44 PM  

WhiskeySticks: Will the police union be joining this army?


They'll be on the front lines fighting against labour unions, same as they always have.
 
2022-06-17 3:42:09 PM  
You mean like this?

Fark user imageView Full Size


or this?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-06-17 3:47:44 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Benevolent Misanthrope: Bootleg: null: AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAH

I am a member of a public employees union. So I am really getting a kick out of most of this article. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like unions are great for employees. But trust me.... they aren't always. I think you just want to assume unions are always run perfectly with every employee being treated fairly and equally, when in reality unions like mine end up being run by a clique who made sure they got big pay increases while I and others didn't, and then proceeded to LIE about it and not disclose it in the contract papers they presented us. This is how union members start getting disgruntled and quit the union under the Janus vs. AFSCME decision (thanks, SCOTUS).  If you don't know about how unions can go wrong... don't assume unions always benefit employees.  Cuz some people don't know how unions can turn against you.

I thought this meme was supposed to end with "Cause some farkers believe anything they hear".

Yeah...  Incomplete contract presented for a membership vote?  Uh-huh.  My goodness, isn't that some bullshiat.

If it's not in the contract that was ratified, it's not in the contract.  Welcome to my Favorites list, "liar yellow 4" edition.

That was intended for null, not you, Bootleg.


Any time you want to apologize for calling me a liar, you can.


Or we can wait for everything I can't really talk about yet to hit the news and it gets posted to Fark.  Keep in mind I'm a public employee and, well, those of us with some kind of moral sense and duty who don't just come in for a paycheck or to see how far we can take goofing off on or ripping off the taxpayer dollars have outlets for whistleblowing and/or filing complaints which tend to leave public records which the media can find if they go looking which lead to stories in the news that can be posted to Fark.  So it's only a matter of time now as things progress.Perhaps I should not have gone with the Fark meme "I'm getting a kick" though.  But I'm not a goddamn liar.  Union corruption exists, all you need to do are look up how corrupt the goddamn UAW is: https://www.autonews.com/static/section/report05.htmlI am ABSOLUTELY ALL FOR UNIONIZATION, fuck Bezos and Starbucks, but I'm also gonna tell everyone thinking about unionizing that they need to take precautions that their union doesn't turn into a goddamn High School where the in-crowd gets everything or becomes the goddamn UAW where there's continual scandals of embezzlement and the high muckety-mucks get no-show jobs or crap like that.I've been here on Fark longer than you, Benny, I'm not some new sockpuppet account out to shit on unions paid for by the Koch Brothers and Mall*Wart.  I'm telling people, put some goddamn protections in when you organize.  The newbies to unionization need to know this crap and need to make sure everyone in the union is informed.  Like I said, the vast majority of my fellow members don't know shit about their rights.  Had I my way, every person, once they became eligible to join, would get a big fucking packet of info from the union including the local constitution, all the ancillary benefits (discounts, free college program, etc.), and so on.  But my union (and the other locals under the same council/international) at my employer don't do anything like that.Since you're not gonna believe me anyway, true story: we become eligible to join at 60 CALENDAR days but are under probation for 90 WORK days.  Contract specifies that and that we're able to be represented in everything by the union except discipline after 60 CALENDAR days.  Contract also says they're supposed to start taking dues from me at 60 CALENDAR days.At 60 calendar days I go down and see the union president and ask for my union card please and thank you.That's unheard of.  Literally unheard of.Union prez says WTF am I talking about, I can't join until I'm past probation.Cue me fucking sputtering at this statement, he's the goddamn president, he should know what's in the contract.Cue me pulling the fucking book out and pointing out the two separate articles which confirm what I'm telling him.He tells me I'm wrong.I tell him he's a moron and if they're not taking my dues before 90 work days the union is leaving money on the table.He blows me off again.I had to go around my president, to the staff rep from the council, to get my fucking union card, and the staff rep told my president that I was fucking right and they should be glad they have someone so eager to join the union.That is some of the most fucked up bullshit right there when a new employee WANTS TO JOIN THE UNION AND HAS THE CONTRACT BOOK IN HAND STATING THEY'RE ELIGIBLE TO JOIN, ONLY TO HAVE THE UNION TELL HIM TO FUCK OFF, HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT.I will tell you that when I've gone up beyond the regional council office and spoken to higher muckety-mucks they have been perfectly courteous and believed what I've told them about my union and they've seen it elsewhere, but they don't have a lot of investigatory power - it seems we have to either bring charges against members and officers using the framework in our constitutions (again, nobody knows we have constitutions) or resort to lawyers and the legal system or state and federal labor relations boards.  And most people don't want to put up that fight and resign themselves to paying dues for effectively nothing, or in the post-Janus world they opt out of the union altogether.
 
2022-06-17 3:48:31 PM  

The Cat Who Walks By Herself: A union may screw you. The owners certainly will.


This is absolutely true.
 
2022-06-17 3:48:50 PM  
Thanks Fark for eating the formatting of my post for some unknown reason.  way to go.
 
2022-06-17 3:50:10 PM  

null: Thanks Fark for eating the formatting of my post for some unknown reason.  way to go.


I'm always one for substance over style anyway. You may want to work on both, old-timer
 
2022-06-17 3:52:02 PM  

wildcardjack: American style unions are mostly trash. They want companies to operate in a fixed manner with staffing requirements, even if the tech changes or the business declines. Some unions are good, provide a stable source of vetted talent, like welders or stage hands. Some of the examples I get from German unions is where they'll take a cut in pay or hours in a recession so they can rebound with the company they don't kill.


European style unions get a member on the board who has some actual say in the running of the company and can bring forward good ideas on how to optimize things.  Like if a union member has a great idea that increases efficiency and productivity.  And the member gets recognized for it, as opposed to America, where the idea either gets shot down by Management, or Management steals the idea for their own and sends it up the chain and gets a big bonus for saving the company money while the worker who proposed it gets nothing.
 
2022-06-17 3:57:29 PM  
But has she been seen making a terrorist fist bump with her baby daddy?
 
2022-06-17 3:59:08 PM  
If you oppose Unions then you should be denied weekends.
 
2022-06-17 4:04:20 PM  

NathanAllen: If you oppose Unions then you should be denied weekends.


Let's be honest, one day we will all be guards and inmates.  With the rich paying the guards to enslave the inmates.  This is our future.  And I'm not sure anything can stop it.
We have no grasp on freedom.  Hence why it's quasi illegal to be jobless/homeless.  We're actually hostile towards those who don't understand the concept of being a wage slave. We want everyone working to make some of us rich and rest of us controlled.
 
2022-06-17 4:05:11 PM  

Bob_Laublaw: null: Thanks Fark for eating the formatting of my post for some unknown reason.  way to go.

I'm always one for substance over style anyway. You may want to work on both, old-timer


I get preachy and yell-y when I get mad and moreso when people call me a liar, because I don't care to lie and I value credibility.  So calling me a liar sets me right off.  But I also suck at writing things and communication because like any good tech-type person I'm somewhere on "the spectrum" where my brain moves faster than my mouth and fingers and I get frustrated at trying to get my point out in a way that others get.  That's also where I start having major problems with a union that can't get off its ass to do the things that are in plain English in both the contract and in our union constitutions. At least they won't get off their ass unless it involves them or their friends.
 
2022-06-17 4:09:09 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Management boot licker in 1. How does that fine Italian leather taste?


Hey assh.... I mean friend.  I'm officially a whistleblower and am in the middle of being retaliated against, getting a lawyer, going to the appropriate state and federal agencies, so I am NOT getting a kick out of your reply, really.

When it comes out to the media I'll post it to Fark so you can apologize to me for this post, okay?
 
2022-06-17 4:24:47 PM  

null: AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAH

I am a member of a public employees union. So I am really getting a kick out of most of this article. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like unions are great for employees. But trust me.... they aren't always. I think you just want to assume unions are always run perfectly with every employee being treated fairly and equally, when in reality unions like mine end up being run by a clique who made sure they got big pay increases while I and others didn't, and then proceeded to LIE about it and not disclose it in the contract papers they presented us. This is how union members start getting disgruntled and quit the union under the Janus vs. AFSCME decision (thanks, SCOTUS).  If you don't know about how unions can go wrong... don't assume unions always benefit employees.  Cuz some people don't know how unions can turn against you.


Yes, we know you show up in every single union thread to talk about how unions suck.
 
2022-06-17 4:26:08 PM  

mmojo: She seems so angry.


Explain why she shouldn't be.
 
2022-06-17 4:33:06 PM  

austerity101: null: AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAH

I am a member of a public employees union. So I am really getting a kick out of most of this article. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like unions are great for employees. But trust me.... they aren't always. I think you just want to assume unions are always run perfectly with every employee being treated fairly and equally, when in reality unions like mine end up being run by a clique who made sure they got big pay increases while I and others didn't, and then proceeded to LIE about it and not disclose it in the contract papers they presented us. This is how union members start getting disgruntled and quit the union under the Janus vs. AFSCME decision (thanks, SCOTUS).  If you don't know about how unions can go wrong... don't assume unions always benefit employees.  Cuz some people don't know how unions can turn against you.

Yes, we know you show up in every single union thread to talk about how unions suck.


My union sucks.  I'm cautioning others to KEEP their unions from sucking.  I would not be telling people what happened to me and how to prevent it from happening to them (by pointing out that unions have constitutions which the members should be aware of and read) if I just wanted to slam unions.  Unions work great if everyone is an informed and participatory member and they don't devolve into cliques and good-old-boys clubs and union leadership doesn't kiss Management ass and those sorts of things.  How in fark's name would you like me to prove it to you otherwise?  You wanna look at my bank account and see how many times I've shopped at Kroger or Meijer for groceries vs. Mall*Wart for the past year?  Want a copy of my title and registration to see I'm driving an Ohio-built GM car as opposed to some non-union-made thing?  Propose a means of proving my case or stop being an ass.
 
2022-06-17 4:42:55 PM  

null: Or we can wait for everything I can't really talk about yet to hit the news and it gets posted to Fark.  Keep in mind I'm a public employee and, well, those of us with some kind of moral sense and duty who don't just come in for a paycheck or to see how far we can take goofing off on or ripping off the taxpayer dollars have outlets for whistleblowing and/or filing complaints which tend to leave public records which the media can find if they go looking which lead to stories in the news that can be posted to Fark.  So it's only a matter of time now as things progress.


Scandals involving misuse of funds by other unions have absolutely no bearing on whether your particular story is plausible. Unless, of course, you're saying that the UAW is a public employees' union.  Which I don't suppose is out of the realm of possibility for you to say, considering.

Anyway, when you blow the lid off this whole "I didn't get a raise and that's egregious union corruption" thing all over the media, and your story bears up, I'll be happy to apologize.  Please tell me your union so I know it's you.

/Don't forget to slam the computer on them when you tell them how this is going to be all over the media.
 
2022-06-17 4:59:32 PM  
New AFL-CIO president, a woman seen here raising her fist in the common salute shared by leftist terrorists around the world, promises to build a 1-million socialist army to fight her War on Capitalism

News for subby...

The Billionaire Donor Class lobbying operation begun in 1972, and the parallel propaganda effort the rationalize the operation in American media has been SO effective that now, any effort to claw back the ill gotten gains of the Billionaire Donor class is labeled as extreme populism or socialism or communism.

And the farking rubes actually buy into that stupid bullshiat.

Y'all get what ya pay for...morans.
 
2022-06-17 5:20:23 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: null: Or we can wait for everything I can't really talk about yet to hit the news and it gets posted to Fark.  Keep in mind I'm a public employee and, well, those of us with some kind of moral sense and duty who don't just come in for a paycheck or to see how far we can take goofing off on or ripping off the taxpayer dollars have outlets for whistleblowing and/or filing complaints which tend to leave public records which the media can find if they go looking which lead to stories in the news that can be posted to Fark.  So it's only a matter of time now as things progress.

Scandals involving misuse of funds by other unions have absolutely no bearing on whether your particular story is plausible. Unless, of course, you're saying that the UAW is a public employees' union.  Which I don't suppose is out of the realm of possibility for you to say, considering.

Anyway, when you blow the lid off this whole "I didn't get a raise and that's egregious union corruption" thing all over the media, and your story bears up, I'll be happy to apologize.  Please tell me your union so I know it's you.

/Don't forget to slam the computer on them when you tell them how this is going to be all over the media.


from my union's international constitution:

Members shall have the right to full participation, through discussion and vote, in the decision-making processes of the union, and to pertinent information needed for the exercise of this right. This right shall specifically include decisions concerning the acceptance or rejection of collective bargaining contracts, memoranda of understanding, or any other agreements affecting their wages, hours, or other terms and conditions of employment. All members shall have an equal right to vote and each vote cast shall be of equal weight.

So when they tell me we're all getting 2.5% increase, and hand me a packet with a wage table that says 2.5% at the top of the column where our new wage rates are, and certain people are not getting 2.5%, they're getting 6+%, AND that's not explained or elaborated anywhere else in any materials we were provided in writing, wouldn't you agree the above article and particularly what I bolded was violated?

You might also want to take a look at this one: https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4117.11

(B) It is an unfair labor practice for an employee organization, its agents, or representatives, or public employees to:

(6) Fail to fairly represent all public employees in a bargaining unit;

Mind you it is also illegal for the union and its members to use public resources to campaign for union office...

and that's before we get into what Management's been up to and the whistleblowing there.

Check your reading comprehension buddy.  Both my union AND Management are in trouble and since the union was not gonna confront management on the issues for me since they don't like me being a pain in their ass.  Management got their lawbreaking whistleblown too.  Yes, when I've brought up things to the Union that were illegal, the Union spat back to me to STFU and sit the fark down before I ruined everything for everyone because Management would retaliate if someone blew the whistle, like they've literally said nobody would get raises ever again and every grievance we'd submit would be forced to go to arbitration by Management.  Which is also mostly what's happened so far.  And part of why unions are supposed to exist is to fight for health and safety regs and make sure that Management isn't breaking the law willy-nilly.  So if the Union knows that the laws are being broken (and believe me one of the officers TOLD me "maybe someone should whistleblow about this place" - well he got what he wished for), why weren't they doing anything?  Oh wait, looking out for their own self-interests instead of the greater good.
 
2022-06-17 5:22:10 PM  

null: AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAH

I am a member of a public employees union. So I am really getting a kick out of most of this article. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like unions are great for employees. But trust me.... they aren't always. I think you just want to assume unions are always run perfectly with every employee being treated fairly and equally, when in reality unions like mine end up being run by a clique who made sure they got big pay increases while I and others didn't, and then proceeded to LIE about it and not disclose it in the contract papers they presented us. This is how union members start getting disgruntled and quit the union under the Janus vs. AFSCME decision (thanks, SCOTUS).  If you don't know about how unions can go wrong... don't assume unions always benefit employees.  Cuz some people don't know how unions can turn against you.


In my experience, which admittedly isn't hard data but includes working at a couple of union shops and being a professional organizer, 90% of the time the people who are loudest about how useless and corrupt the union is are also the people that would have been fired years ago for laziness and general incompetence if the union wasn't protecting them.
 
2022-06-17 5:51:33 PM  
.....reads headline......

Good.  Bout damm time.
 
2022-06-17 5:56:05 PM  

Lusiphur: null: AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAH

I am a member of a public employees union. So I am really getting a kick out of most of this article. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like unions are great for employees. But trust me.... they aren't always. I think you just want to assume unions are always run perfectly with every employee being treated fairly and equally, when in reality unions like mine end up being run by a clique who made sure they got big pay increases while I and others didn't, and then proceeded to LIE about it and not disclose it in the contract papers they presented us. This is how union members start getting disgruntled and quit the union under the Janus vs. AFSCME decision (thanks, SCOTUS).  If you don't know about how unions can go wrong... don't assume unions always benefit employees.  Cuz some people don't know how unions can turn against you.

In my experience, which admittedly isn't hard data but includes working at a couple of union shops and being a professional organizer, 90% of the time the people who are loudest about how useless and corrupt the union is are also the people that would have been fired years ago for laziness and general incompetence if the union wasn't protecting them.


Yeah, I know some people like that.

Then again one of our union officers, according to rumor, got several days off without pay as punishment for driving his work vehicle home and hiding it in the garage and farking off for over half his shift.  Also someone who's shown up for meetings (prior to being elected) with some sort of beverage wrapped in a paper bag that he was drinking from.  Yeah.  And, in order to remove him, it'll take someone to put him up on specific charges, a trial held by the executive board of the local (populated by his friends), and for that body to find him guilty, and even IF they find him guilty they don't have to do anything.  PLUS, and get this one, there's a provision in the constitution that they could find the party bringing charges up against him to be doing so maliciously and remove THEM from the union.  I'm dead serious.  And if you don't like how they rule, you have to appeal it up the chain.  The union officials could do anything you can think of that's wrong or illegal and so long as they're paying dues in good standing it looks like they can't really be removed without a fight.

You won't believe me on that, I know.  But that's exactly what I'm up against.  The good old boy, clique, system that looks out for themselves.

Mind you I've spoken to people above the regional office level and those people seem to be good people, but as they told me, we elect the union leadership and get the union local that we deserve, and as we all know, all it takes for evil and corruption to win is for the good people to do nothing or get tired of the fight.
 
2022-06-17 5:56:20 PM  

null: Benevolent Misanthrope: null: Or we can wait for everything I can't really talk about yet to hit the news and it gets posted to Fark.  Keep in mind I'm a public employee and, well, those of us with some kind of moral sense and duty who don't just come in for a paycheck or to see how far we can take goofing off on or ripping off the taxpayer dollars have outlets for whistleblowing and/or filing complaints which tend to leave public records which the media can find if they go looking which lead to stories in the news that can be posted to Fark.  So it's only a matter of time now as things progress.

Scandals involving misuse of funds by other unions have absolutely no bearing on whether your particular story is plausible. Unless, of course, you're saying that the UAW is a public employees' union.  Which I don't suppose is out of the realm of possibility for you to say, considering.

Anyway, when you blow the lid off this whole "I didn't get a raise and that's egregious union corruption" thing all over the media, and your story bears up, I'll be happy to apologize.  Please tell me your union so I know it's you.

/Don't forget to slam the computer on them when you tell them how this is going to be all over the media.

from my union's international constitution:

Members shall have the right to full participation, through discussion and vote, in the decision-making processes of the union, and to pertinent information needed for the exercise of this right. This right shall specifically include decisions concerning the acceptance or rejection of collective bargaining contracts, memoranda of understanding, or any other agreements affecting their wages, hours, or other terms and conditions of employment. All members shall have an equal right to vote and each vote cast shall be of equal weight.

So when they tell me we're all getting 2.5% increase, and hand me a packet with a wage table that says 2.5% at the top of the column where our new wage rates are, and certain people a ...


Wow.  So you admit you got a contract, you read it, you saw the wage scale, you presumably objected to the wage scale at the ratification meeting and engaged in the process by making your opinion known to the membership.  And you voted.  Your vote was counted along with everyone else's.  I'd say that was in compliance, yes.  Even if you don't like how the vote came out.  Can't imagine why anyone would have told you to STFU, not with such cogent and well-reasoned arguments.

So.... when is all this stuff you laid out here, that you "can't talk about yet" going to "hit the news" and prove me wrong, again?
 
2022-06-17 6:16:45 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Wow. So you admit you got a contract, you read it, you saw the wage scale, you presumably objected to the wage scale at the ratification meeting and engaged in the process by making your opinion known to the membership. And you voted. Your vote was counted along with everyone else's. I'd say that was in compliance, yes. Even if you don't like how the vote came out. Can't imagine why anyone would have told you to STFU, not with such cogent and well-reasoned arguments.

So.... when is all this stuff you laid out here, that you "can't talk about yet" going to "hit the news" and prove me wrong, again?


That's not how it went down, buddy.

Once again, the wage scale was presented as everyone got 2.5%.  Everyone didn't get 2.5%.  We got a table with hourly wages and at the top of the column was "2.5%".  The table didn't list previous wages in force.  The math was implied to be 2.5% increase on what we were currently getting.  After ratification math was done and surprise it wasn't 2.5% for everyone - the trades got more.

If I sell ovens, and I advertise "this oven, 25% off list price = $600" and you buy the oven advertised, and after the sale you see $600 on the receipt (before all the tax and delivery fees and whatever, mind), but you find out the regular price of the oven is NOT $800 ($800 minus 25% = $600) but is in fact $700, you're gonna go ballistic and be in my store threatening to sue me for false advertising and calling in the TV news, the BBB, and the state attorney general.  Because you're holding in your hand an ad that says 25% off list price = $600 and the list price is $700, thus you should have paid $525.  Do you get it or are you just out to troll me bro?

If they presented a wage table with no percent at the top, I'd probably have no case.  If they presented one with percent increases broken out, I'd have no case.  If they had anything listed in other language to say "and trades to get additional adjustment", I'd have no case.
 
2022-06-17 6:31:55 PM  

null: Benevolent Misanthrope: Wow. So you admit you got a contract, you read it, you saw the wage scale, you presumably objected to the wage scale at the ratification meeting and engaged in the process by making your opinion known to the membership. And you voted. Your vote was counted along with everyone else's. I'd say that was in compliance, yes. Even if you don't like how the vote came out. Can't imagine why anyone would have told you to STFU, not with such cogent and well-reasoned arguments.

So.... when is all this stuff you laid out here, that you "can't talk about yet" going to "hit the news" and prove me wrong, again?

That's not how it went down, buddy.

Once again, the wage scale was presented as everyone got 2.5%.  Everyone didn't get 2.5%.  We got a table with hourly wages and at the top of the column was "2.5%".  The table didn't list previous wages in force.  The math was implied to be 2.5% increase on what we were currently getting.  After ratification math was done and surprise it wasn't 2.5% for everyone - the trades got more.

If I sell ovens, and I advertise "this oven, 25% off list price = $600" and you buy the oven advertised, and after the sale you see $600 on the receipt (before all the tax and delivery fees and whatever, mind), but you find out the regular price of the oven is NOT $800 ($800 minus 25% = $600) but is in fact $700, you're gonna go ballistic and be in my store threatening to sue me for false advertising and calling in the TV news, the BBB, and the state attorney general.  Because you're holding in your hand an ad that says 25% off list price = $600 and the list price is $700, thus you should have paid $525.  Do you get it or are you just out to troll me bro?

If they presented a wage table with no percent at the top, I'd probably have no case.  If they presented one with percent increases broken out, I'd have no case.  If they had anything listed in other language to say "and trades to get additional adjustment", I'd have no case.


OK  I'll wait for your predicted media blow-up on this, then apologize when I see it, then.
 
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