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(KTLA Los Angeles)   Tesla wrecked three weeks ago continues to reignite in junkyard, Stephen King considering revision to Firestarter   (ktla.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Sacramento, California, Rocklin Firefighters Facebook page, Sacramento Metro Fire, Automobile, electric vehicle, Rocklin Firefighters, battery compartment, Internal combustion engine  
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3387 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jun 2022 at 2:35 PM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-06-14 1:54:33 PM  
The same thing can happen when a junk yard fails to drain the gasoline and remove the battery from an ICE vehicle.
 
2022-06-14 2:17:53 PM  

JessieL: The same thing can happen when a junk yard fails to drain the gasoline and remove the battery from an ICE vehicle.


If by "same thing" you mean a fire starting in an idle vehicle, then yes, but it's less probable with conventional engines because you need a more robust ignition source.

If you mean a fire that conventional fire fighting can't put out, requiring them to literally dig a pond and drown the vehicle, then no, an ICE vehicle with a full tank isn't going to burn that way.
 
2022-06-14 2:24:24 PM  

JessieL: The same thing can happen when a junk yard fails to drain the gasoline and remove the battery from an ICE vehicle.


Well, the ICE vehicle will only burn once. And not for very long.
 
2022-06-14 2:25:06 PM  
Elon has said for years, 'Oh yeah, we're gonna take old Teslas out of one side of the factory and bring new Teslas out of the other side.'source

Expect that the FD and junkyard would both like Tesla to collect the old Tesla and take it to their factory.
 
2022-06-14 2:27:52 PM  
And to be clear, lest any White Knighting Tesla cultists think this is criticism of the brand or their God-King: it's not a Tesla thing.   It's an lithium ion battery thing.   Basic chemistry, physics, and thermodynamcs.  It's happened to other EV brands, as well as Boeing Dreamliners.  It will continue to happen until someone invents an indestructible battery or at least indestructible battery containment pods.
 
2022-06-14 2:29:01 PM  
Coincidentally, I also think of Elon Musk as a wrecked husk that keeps setting himself on fire every few weeks.
 
2022-06-14 2:31:29 PM  
Stephen King considering revision to Firestarter

Or just a crossover with Christine?
 
2022-06-14 2:32:06 PM  

JessieL: The same thing can happen when a junk yard fails to drain the gasoline and remove the battery from an ICE vehicle.


It took me a second to realize you meant internal combustion engine and not immigrant and customs enforcement.

On the plus side I don't immediately think well yeah rolling meth labs are inherently unsafe
 
2022-06-14 2:33:28 PM  

Warthog: JessieL: The same thing can happen when a junk yard fails to drain the gasoline and remove the battery from an ICE vehicle.

If by "same thing" you mean a fire starting in an idle vehicle, then yes, but it's less probable with conventional engines because you need a more robust ignition source.

If you mean a fire that conventional fire fighting can't put out, requiring them to literally dig a pond and drown the vehicle, then no, an ICE vehicle with a full tank isn't going to burn that way.


Conventional fire fighting had to adapt to gasoline too. Dousing it with water isn't a great idea for flammable liquids, and there are some things to be aware of with alkali metals too.
 
2022-06-14 2:34:59 PM  

sorceror: Stephen King considering revision to Firestarter

Or just a crossover with Christine?


Now I'm really wanting to see a third attempt to make a good movie version of Trucks(Maximum Overdrive is a guilty pleasure and I never saw the USA Network version in its entirety)
 
2022-06-14 2:38:45 PM  
A Christine/Fire Starter/Maximum Overdrive mashup.
 
2022-06-14 2:39:49 PM  
The Prodigy - Firestarter (Official Video)
Youtube wmin5WkOuPw
 
2022-06-14 2:39:57 PM  

Halfabee64: A Christine/Fire Starter/Maximum Overdrive mashup.


CHRISTINE II: ELECTRIC BOOGALOO!

 
2022-06-14 2:40:04 PM  
That is kind of scary.  I have a Tesla in my garage attached to my house.
 
2022-06-14 2:40:09 PM  
They doused a lithium-ion battery fire with water to extinguish it? Every single member of that fire department should be required to start firefighting training all over again.
 
2022-06-14 2:40:38 PM  
The lithium ion battery containment pods are coated with chlorine trifluoride and/or potassium benzoate.
 
2022-06-14 2:40:43 PM  

AnotherBluesStringer: Coincidentally, I also think of Elon Musk as a wrecked husk that keeps setting himself on fire every few weeks.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-06-14 2:41:07 PM  
I really would like to get my hand on a crashed battery pack so I could make a homebrew powerwall or the money for a f150 lightning and so I don't need to have a battery for my house.
 
2022-06-14 2:41:41 PM  
Could be worse. Could be this stuff.

CLF3
Youtube M4l56AfUTnQ
 
2022-06-14 2:42:49 PM  

Warthog: And to be clear, lest any White Knighting Tesla cultists think this is criticism of the brand or their God-King: it's not a Tesla thing.   It's an lithium ion battery thing.   Basic chemistry, physics, and thermodynamcs.  It's happened to other EV brands, as well as Boeing Dreamliners.  It will continue to happen until someone invents an indestructible battery or at least indestructible battery containment pods.


Wouldn't the headline be just a slight bit leading then? Should it be "Electric vehicle wrecked three weeks ago continues to reignite in junkyard, Stephen King considering revision to Firestarter"?
 
2022-06-14 2:43:13 PM  

Warthog: And to be clear, lest any White Knighting Tesla cultists think this is criticism of the brand or their God-King: it's not a Tesla thing.   It's an lithium ion battery thing.   Basic chemistry, physics, and thermodynamcs.  It's happened to other EV brands, as well as Boeing Dreamliners.  It will continue to happen until someone invents an indestructible battery or at least indestructible battery containment pods.


Lithium iron phosphate batteries are less prone to bursting into flames. They also have a lower energy density, but it might be an acceptable tradeoff for mass-market EVs.
 
2022-06-14 2:43:41 PM  
Circle of life.  The Telsa is merely removing parts of itself so the junkyard can harvest the more profitable parts.  Que Elton John.
 
2022-06-14 2:45:32 PM  
These Onion articles are killing me.
No one could be stupid enough to spray water on lithium batteries.
 
2022-06-14 2:45:56 PM  

sorceror: Stephen King considering revision to Firestarter

Or just a crossover with Christine?


would like to see a mashup with Cujo and Firestarter touring the country in Christine.
 
2022-06-14 2:47:26 PM  

Fissile: [YouTube video: The Prodigy - Firestarter (Official Video)]


Replace with Musk...

"I'm a fiyah stah-tah! Douchebag fiyah stah-tah!"
 
2022-06-14 2:48:36 PM  

ar393: I really would like to get my hand on a crashed battery pack so I could make a homebrew powerwall or the money for a f150 lightning and so I don't need to have a battery for my house.


Check your local vape shops, ask if they have any "dead" 18650 cells. I got around 400 a couple of years ago from a few local places - the majority held charge and voltage fine but wouldn't do the super rapid discharge for vaping anymore. Pick up a load of cell holders and charging regulators for cheap online and build one like I did. And they're more difficult to find nowadays since they get recycled but look/ask for old car batteries, a degraded one can be revitalized and used as a storage cell with lower amperage output.
 
2022-06-14 2:50:14 PM  

spongeboob: JessieL: The same thing can happen when a junk yard fails to drain the gasoline and remove the battery from an ICE vehicle.

It took me a second to realize you meant internal combustion engine and not immigrant and customs enforcement.

On the plus side I don't immediately think well yeah rolling meth labs are inherently unsafe


Obviously it means In Car Entertainment.

Damn DVD players are ticking time bombs I tells ya.
 
2022-06-14 2:50:32 PM  
Welp, that's interesting.

Guess its time for wrecking yards to start keeping these on site.

Fark user imageView Full Size


And honestly, make Tesla pay for it.

/Purple-K if you're wondering
 
2022-06-14 2:51:03 PM  
I always thought Tesla's were hot cars.
 
2022-06-14 2:52:10 PM  
Try peeing it out that's how us good ol real americans in the country take care of some pesky little fire
 
2022-06-14 2:52:18 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Warthog: And to be clear, lest any White Knighting Tesla cultists think this is criticism of the brand or their God-King: it's not a Tesla thing.   It's an lithium ion battery thing.   Basic chemistry, physics, and thermodynamcs.  It's happened to other EV brands, as well as Boeing Dreamliners.  It will continue to happen until someone invents an indestructible battery or at least indestructible battery containment pods.

Lithium iron phosphate batteries are less prone to bursting into flames. They also have a lower energy density, but it might be an acceptable tradeoff for mass-market EVs.


Tesla is already using it for lower end EVs. Key patents expired (in 2020 or -21IIRC) so expect to see a lot more of those around. They'll still burn, but won't self-ignite when damaged.

The flammability if Li-ion batteries is due to the electrolyte, which burns much the same way as gasoline. It's just a coincidence that the most energy dense chemistries are the most flammable, and it might not be true in the future.
 
2022-06-14 2:52:21 PM  
In the RC model airplane world, Lithium packs that go bad are disposed of by punching thru their plastic shells with a sharp wooden stick and soaking in a bucket of salt water. After this, supposedly they are safe to landfill. You're supposed to keep on hand a fireproof bag, or a terra cotta flower pot full of sand, to treat runaway packs at the field.

There has to be some kind of way to connect to a damaged Tesla's pack and fully discharge it. But if you discharge too quickly, the lithium cells will overheat and start a fire for sure.  Junkyards should know by now you can't leave partially-charged lithium batteries just laying around to get randomly shorted out.
 
2022-06-14 2:53:57 PM  

sorceror: Stephen King considering revision to Firestarter

Or just a crossover with Christine?


Which King novel wasn't connected to another one?
 
2022-06-14 2:54:03 PM  

josiahgould: ar393: I really would like to get my hand on a crashed battery pack so I could make a homebrew powerwall or the money for a f150 lightning and so I don't need to have a battery for my house.

Check your local vape shops, ask if they have any "dead" 18650 cells. I got around 400 a couple of years ago from a few local places - the majority held charge and voltage fine but wouldn't do the super rapid discharge for vaping anymore. Pick up a load of cell holders and charging regulators for cheap online and build one like I did. And they're more difficult to find nowadays since they get recycled but look/ask for old car batteries, a degraded one can be revitalized and used as a storage cell with lower amperage output.


My usual source was from the interstate battery place that recycled laptop batteries. I need something pretty big because my house is 100% electric and I live in rural VT. So between the hot water and well pump and kitchen, if my power goes out in the winter I need some serious Kw. No issue keeping the hot water weather off if I have no power for a day, but the well pump is kinda important. Unfortunately Tesla won't install power walls in my house over 2 inches they say they need, but I have friends that have powerwall, and they will fit where I can put them in my house, but they still say no. The electric utility here was some great incentives to get batteries. Plus I have solar so it would basically mean my house is self powered if I can get the battery situation figured out.
 
2022-06-14 2:57:49 PM  
I landed my little mavic air drone once and the battery was a billion degrees and swelled up like a balloon. I threw it away and you can't get them for msrp anymore and old ones are 3-4x the price. Bummer Lithium is dangerous.
Regardless I love my electric car with all my heart
 
2022-06-14 2:58:07 PM  
Ban them
 
2022-06-14 2:58:30 PM  

Any Pie Left: In the RC model airplane world, Lithium packs that go bad are disposed of by punching thru their plastic shells with a sharp wooden stick and soaking in a bucket of salt water. After this, supposedly they are safe to landfill. You're supposed to keep on hand a fireproof bag, or a terra cotta flower pot full of sand, to treat runaway packs at the field.

There has to be some kind of way to connect to a damaged Tesla's pack and fully discharge it. But if you discharge too quickly, the lithium cells will overheat and start a fire for sure.  Junkyards should know by now you can't leave partially-charged lithium batteries just laying around to get randomly shorted out.


There probably isn't. There are thousands of individually fused cells. If a fuse is broken, that cell us electricity isolated. Submerging it in salt water might do it, if the water can get to all the cells. I wouldn't want to be the one punching holes in the waterproof casing of the battery in order to get the air out.
 
2022-06-14 3:00:29 PM  

josiahgould: Check your local vape shops, ask if they have any "dead" 18650 cells. I got around 400 a couple of years ago from a few local places - the majority held charge and voltage fine but wouldn't do the super rapid discharge for vaping anymore. Pick up a load of cell holders and charging regulators for cheap online and build one like I did.


Fark user imageView Full Size
liked this post.
 
2022-06-14 3:01:39 PM  

stevejovi: They doused a lithium-ion battery fire with water to extinguish it? Every single member of that fire department should be required to start firefighting training all over again.


They should just let it burn because man, it's gone.
 
2022-06-14 3:03:49 PM  

stevejovi: They doused a lithium-ion battery fire with water to extinguish it? Every single member of that fire department should be required to start firefighting training all over again.


So much this. The story isn't Tesla or the battery or even the fire. The story is the firefighters who know nothing about fighting fires.
 
2022-06-14 3:04:13 PM  

stevejovi: They doused a lithium-ion battery fire with water to extinguish it? Every single member of that fire department should be required to start firefighting training all over again.


That's literally how they are supposed to put it out though, according to Tesla it could take 30,000 gallons of water and over 4 hours(!). There was a story on here awhile back about it.

/that's a long time to tie up the fire department, to me anyway
 
2022-06-14 3:05:05 PM  

stevejovi: They doused a lithium-ion battery fire with water to extinguish it? Every single member of that fire department should be required to start firefighting training all over again.


You do understand that consumer products have to exist in the real world, yes? Where fire companies have water and foam for car fires?

Maybe BEVs are the problem.
 
2022-06-14 3:06:04 PM  

King Something: The lithium ion battery containment pods are coated with chlorine trifluoride and/or potassium benzoate.


That's good.
 
2022-06-14 3:07:31 PM  
"Don't crash, you pedo?"

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-06-14 3:10:52 PM  

JessieL: The same thing can happen when a junk yard fails to drain the gasoline and remove the battery from an ICE vehicle.


I don't have any idea why you'd make up shiat about battery fires being the same as gasoline fires.
 
2022-06-14 3:12:44 PM  

mcmnky: stevejovi: They doused a lithium-ion battery fire with water to extinguish it? Every single member of that fire department should be required to start firefighting training all over again.

So much this. The story isn't Tesla or the battery or even the fire. The story is the firefighters who know nothing about fighting fires.


https://www.hilti.ca/medias/sys_master/documents/h12/h42/9724945268766/Documentation-ASSET-DOC-LOC-7836623.pdf

Fark user imageView Full Size


The stored energy in the battery is coming out one way or another. Water will cool down the stuff around it even if it can't stop the reactions inside the battery.
 
2022-06-14 3:13:37 PM  

sidailurch: stevejovi: They doused a lithium-ion battery fire with water to extinguish it? Every single member of that fire department should be required to start firefighting training all over again.

That's literally how they are supposed to put it out though, according to Tesla it could take 30,000 gallons of water and over 4 hours(!). There was a story on here awhile back about it.

/that's a long time to tie up the fire department, to me anyway


It sounds like we need to bury those cars in Chernobyl, luckily not too much going on over there at present.
 
2022-06-14 3:16:50 PM  

arrogantbastich: "Don't crash, you pedo?"

[Fark user image 700x350]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-06-14 3:17:34 PM  

Fissile: [Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/wmin5WkOuPw]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-06-14 3:19:59 PM  

Russ1642: JessieL: The same thing can happen when a junk yard fails to drain the gasoline and remove the battery from an ICE vehicle.

I don't have any idea why you'd make up shiat about battery fires being the same as gasoline fires.


I don't have any idea why you'd think I did. They're obviously very different.

What's similar is that ALL cars carry a lot of volatile chemical energy around and it might be compromised in a collision. Anyone with half a brain knows to remove it and store it safely or neutralize it, regardless of whether it's hydrocarbons or alkali metals.
 
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