Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Ars Technica)   Intel tries to get their chip manufacturing back on track with Intel 4, claiming 21.5% better clock speeds using the same amount of power or the same speeds using 40%. Will it be enough? Can they catch the Ryzen hype train? What do you think?   (arstechnica.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Intel's chip, Ultraviolet, Extreme ultraviolet lithography, Manufacturing, manufacturing process, Intel's 14th-generation Core CPU, Integrated circuit, Electronic engineering  
•       •       •

350 clicks; posted to STEM » on 13 Jun 2022 at 11:45 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



35 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-06-13 5:24:56 PM  
I hope they do succeed at making really good chips. Competition is great for customers. I went from a X5460 with 4 GB of RAM to a Ryzen 3600XT with 16 GB of RAM and holy shiat. I feel like I'm wasting this computer's time by not giving it enough to do. o_O
 
2022-06-13 6:02:08 PM  
What does back on track mean. I was of the understanding that this latest gen, with the performance and efficiency cores, are pretty good.

Like slightly better than current Ryzen

/AMD will presumably leap frog Intel when they release their next chips
 
2022-06-13 8:32:00 PM  
Strong offerings from multiple vendors benefits all consumers, IMHO.
 
2022-06-13 9:54:42 PM  
What I think is that everything they can make through 2024 is already sold.  It's just a question of at what margin.
 
2022-06-14 12:05:30 AM  
FWIW Intel has dropped a shiatload of money into the Hillsboro area (west of Portland) over the last few years, a lot of it focused on R&D, so I'm guessing that they're pretty confident about their future.

/And, for selfish reasons, I hope they continue to do well.
 
2022-06-14 12:16:55 AM  
If those claims bear out that's great. Power requirements for a modern highish-end machine are already getting pretty steep, and if the trend continues it's going to start being a real issue both from a heat output and current draw perspective. Already, if you want a 3090 class card and appropriately matched CPU you should have a 1,000 watt PSU.

I'm betting the next gen GPU's are going to have higher power requirements then the current ones, so if the CPU isn't using more too then at least it's not a double-whammy.

Just have to see how they shake out when tested. But if the claims are close? That's good stuff.
 
2022-06-14 12:17:08 AM  
But can it run Crysis?
 
2022-06-14 12:26:59 AM  

Karma Chameleon: But can it run Crysis?


This meme lost all meaning to me when the Switch started running Crysis.

And Doom 2016, for that matter.

Having grown up on Tiger Electronics and the Game Boy, the fact that we can run those games so well on a handheld device still amazes me. I remember as a young teenager dreaming that one day far in the future we would have a "Game Boy 64" that could play games with N64 graphics. Modern gaming technology is magic.
 
2022-06-14 12:37:26 AM  
There's processing speed, power, AND price to consider.
 
2022-06-14 12:50:39 AM  

AgentKGB: I hope they do succeed at making really good chips. Competition is great for customers. I went from a X5460 with 4 GB of RAM to a Ryzen 3600XT with 16 GB of RAM and holy shiat. I feel like I'm wasting this computer's time by not giving it enough to do. o_O


I've got some simulations I can package up for you to run for me. How many threads can ya spare?

/not even kidding lol
 
2022-06-14 12:57:47 AM  
The more improvements they make, the funnier it gets that these cutting edge chips still power up in real mode like it's 1978.
 
2022-06-14 1:29:01 AM  
Intel promises a 21.5% speed increase with the same power usage as current CPUs

I promised my first wife "until death do us part"
 
2022-06-14 2:16:35 AM  

Gubbo: What does back on track mean. I was of the understanding that this latest gen, with the performance and efficiency cores, are pretty good.


Back on track: over thge last couple of years Intel has had massive delays bringing the current generation into mass production, with a bunch of production issues causing their to be yields significantly lower than they had projected, leading to less chip output than needed. Simultaneous phasing out of some of the older production lines meant that they couldn't produce enough to meet demand.

Unfortunately the latest gen chip manufacturing plants easily cost 10 billion+ USD, so not exactly the kind of industry that can turn on a dime. Unexpected issues like this can cause headaches for YEARS.

Some of their next gen stuff is now coming online faster than they had initially projected, allowing them to catch up a bit again.
 
2022-06-14 2:45:49 AM  
I think pie is delicious!

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-06-14 2:49:43 AM  
I think it doesn't matter to me anymore as i'm still not able to afford any of the above.
 
2022-06-14 3:00:23 AM  
Ah, Intel 4. It's their "Performance Rating" 7nm equivalent of everyone else's actual 4nm process, just like Intel 7 is their 10nm PR equivalent of TSMC's actual 7nm process.

It's always fun to watch them squirm when they're so used to being on top.
 
2022-06-14 4:01:48 AM  

sensitive yet dangerous: Ah, Intel 4. It's their "Performance Rating" 7nm equivalent of everyone else's actual 4nm process, just like Intel 7 is their 10nm PR equivalent of TSMC's actual 7nm process.

It's always fun to watch them squirm when they're so used to being on top.


My experience has been, they like to squirm when they are on top.
 
2022-06-14 4:11:26 AM  
I hope they do because although serious users would never switch to Intel, AMD will produce better products if they think Intel is breathing down their neck
 
2022-06-14 4:23:20 AM  

AgentKGB: I hope they do succeed at making really good chips. Competition is great for customers. I went from a X5460 with 4 GB of RAM to a Ryzen 3600XT with 16 GB of RAM and holy shiat. I feel like I'm wasting this computer's time by not giving it enough to do. o_O


But the counterpoint to that is it was Intel's anticompetitive practices that held the industry back to begin with. Competition is great as long as it's against Intel. If Intel just went out of business tomorrow I would not lose any sleep over it and the world would be a better place for it.
 
2022-06-14 5:20:18 AM  

Excelsior: Gubbo: What does back on track mean. I was of the understanding that this latest gen, with the performance and efficiency cores, are pretty good.

Back on track: over thge last couple of years Intel has had massive delays bringing the current generation into mass production, with a bunch of production issues causing their to be yields significantly lower than they had projected, leading to less chip output than needed. Simultaneous phasing out of some of the older production lines meant that they couldn't produce enough to meet demand.

Unfortunately the latest gen chip manufacturing plants easily cost 10 billion+ USD, so not exactly the kind of industry that can turn on a dime. Unexpected issues like this can cause headaches for YEARS.

Some of their next gen stuff is now coming online faster than they had initially projected, allowing them to catch up a bit again.


Well let's not sugar coat this... Intel's issues going below 10nm weren't unexpected. Unexpected means "something that wasn't supposed to happen happened." Anyone who understands a diffraction limit could've told Intel that diffraction was about to punch them in the peepee in 2016.

TSMC and GlobalFoundries both foresaw them, which is why they invested in the development of EUV lithography machines and kept 10/7/5/4 nm rolling out semi-on-schedule. Intel... didn't, and were left standing there holding their dicks with 10nm FinFet++++++ when it turned out that yes, Mabel, physics applies to you too. The cynic in me suggests that Intel saw the early problems with EUV optics and light sources and decided "let them spend twenty billion dollars debugging it."

Intel also super dropped the ball on PCIe-4. Only the latest 3rd generation Xeon scalable server processors support it, they missed a full entire generation. Don't know if this is related to the ball droppage related to EUV or not.

mongbiohazard: If those claims bear out that's great. Power requirements for a modern highish-end machine are already getting pretty steep, and if the trend continues it's going to start being a real issue both from a heat output and current draw perspective. Already, if you want a 3090 class card and appropriately matched CPU you should have a 1,000 watt PSU.

I'm betting the next gen GPU's are going to have higher power requirements then the current ones, so if the CPU isn't using more too then at least it's not a double-whammy.

Just have to see how they shake out when tested. But if the claims are close? That's good stuff.


Reduced power requirements? HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!

I'm considering talking to my boss about buying a new state-of-the-art processor that claims it can run arm, x86 and power9 code using a real-time translator... this processor consumes nearly 900W of power.

The most powerful accelerator GPUs (AMD MI-250 and nVidia H100) are not even available in PCI-e any more partly because they guzzle so much power that pcie power cables can't supply it.

/and mainly because HPC users expect device-device links that are 20x faster than pcie-4 now
 
2022-06-14 9:23:15 AM  

Gubbo: What does back on track mean. I was of the understanding that this latest gen, with the performance and efficiency cores, are pretty good.

Like slightly better than current Ryzen


Even with the efficiency cores, it uses more power than its current Ryzen counterparts.
 
2022-06-14 10:46:56 AM  

aerojockey: I hope they do because although serious users would never switch to Intel, AMD will produce better products if they think Intel is breathing down their neck


uhhhh, i'm a let you know that any "serious user" of anything will actually do their research and find out what is the better product on market at their time of their purchase.
Suckers are who just assume to be brand loyalists for how they make purchases.
.
 
2022-06-14 12:59:13 PM  

PvtStash: aerojockey: I hope they do because although serious users would never switch to Intel, AMD will produce better products if they think Intel is breathing down their neck

uhhhh, i'm a let you know that any "serious user" of anything will actually do their research and find out what is the better product on market at their time of their purchase.
Suckers are who just assume to be brand loyalists for how they make purchases.
.


My two latest builds are both AMD.
Even if Intel had a slight edge, I would probably still stay with AMD.
Motherboards for AMD processors tend to be less expensive, and AMD has done a better job with keeping their chips from being space heaters.
Right now we are also comparing Intel's latest generation of CPUs, to AMD's last generation of CPUs. This fall the newest AMD chips will hit the market.
 
2022-06-14 1:39:22 PM  

aerojockey: I hope they do because although serious users would never switch to Intel, AMD will produce better products if they think Intel is breathing down their neck


Intel is breathing down their neck, the 12th gen i9-12900k outperforms the Ryzen 5950x. Things should swing back in AMD's favor with their next round of processors..

End of the day, the competition between the two is good for all of us.
 
2022-06-14 1:40:33 PM  

sensitive yet dangerous: Ah, Intel 4. It's their "Performance Rating" 7nm equivalent of everyone else's actual 4nm process, just like Intel 7 is their 10nm PR equivalent of TSMC's actual 7nm process.

It's always fun to watch them squirm when they're so used to being on top.


It is my understanding that process node sizing comparisons are akin to the clock speed comparisons of the early 2000s - there are additional factors that need to be considered, so alone they don't mean much.
 
2022-06-14 1:43:08 PM  

mongbiohazard: If those claims bear out that's great. Power requirements for a modern highish-end machine are already getting pretty steep, and if the trend continues it's going to start being a real issue both from a heat output and current draw perspective. Already, if you want a 3090 class card and appropriately matched CPU you should have a 1,000 watt PSU.

I'm betting the next gen GPU's are going to have higher power requirements then the current ones, so if the CPU isn't using more too then at least it's not a double-whammy.

Just have to see how they shake out when tested. But if the claims are close? That's good stuff.


Yeah the i9 can peak up around 240 watts and the 3090 ti at 480 watts.. Bonus, your computer can double as a space heater.
 
2022-06-14 3:04:41 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: PvtStash: aerojockey: I hope they do because although serious users would never switch to Intel, AMD will produce better products if they think Intel is breathing down their neck

uhhhh, i'm a let you know that any "serious user" of anything will actually do their research and find out what is the better product on market at their time of their purchase.
Suckers are who just assume to be brand loyalists for how they make purchases.
.

My two latest builds are both AMD.
Even if Intel had a slight edge, I would probably still stay with AMD.
Motherboards for AMD processors tend to be less expensive, and AMD has done a better job with keeping their chips from being space heaters.
Right now we are also comparing Intel's latest generation of CPUs, to AMD's last generation of CPUs. This fall the newest AMD chips will hit the market.


See you say this part here 'Intel had a slight edge" but then also say this part here "Motherboards for AMD processors tend to be less expensive."


the way you claim intel has 'the edge" here is to calculate raw power capacity alone, which i would not consider a normal rational approach to assessing 'value.'


value is a ratio of cost/return, not just a lone measure of what you got, but also what it took to get it.
so eve if intel has more return power, if their cost is high enough then they are a quantifiable poorer value, so have no edge over AMD in a "normal" purchase value assessment.

The only way the cost is not part of the value assessment, is if the minimum required need of power available is only achieved by one product on the market. in whihc case the buy has no options or chcoeis, the "value" is not about what it cost but that it was the only way to get the job done, no choices.


As long as more than one product can meet the needs then the 'value' assessment must include costs and returns, not just the one and only stat of what you can obtain, but the full ratio of what it costs to obtain it relative to what it can return to you for that cost..


A value assessment is a ratio number, not just the raw listed horse power of the engines you could buy, but an ask of, did you spend more than you needed to to get what you got?
 
2022-06-14 3:25:39 PM  

BretMavrik: FWIW Intel has dropped a shiatload of money into the Hillsboro area (west of Portland) over the last few years, a lot of it focused on R&D, so I'm guessing that they're pretty confident about their future.

/And, for selfish reasons, I hope they continue to do well.


So did they expand Hawthorn Farm or Jones Farm or both again?
 
2022-06-14 5:37:33 PM  

Caelistis: BretMavrik: FWIW Intel has dropped a shiatload of money into the Hillsboro area (west of Portland) over the last few years, a lot of it focused on R&D, so I'm guessing that they're pretty confident about their future.

/And, for selfish reasons, I hope they continue to do well.

So did they expand Hawthorn Farm or Jones Farm or both again?


Mostly a massive new complex on Ronler Acres between Cornelius Pass and the airport. It got to the point where apparently businesses on the west side were complaining about not being able to get cranes, dump trucks, etc. because Intel and Nike had secured so many (Nike has also been doing a ton of work on/around their campus).
 
2022-06-14 11:54:39 PM  
Wasn't there an article on here recently showing that Intel basically lifted AMDs schema wholesale in their upcoming chips?
 
2022-06-15 2:17:47 AM  

BretMavrik: Mostly a massive new complex on Ronler Acres between Cornelius Pass and the airport. It got to the point where apparently businesses on the west side were complaining about not being able to get cranes, dump trucks, etc. because Intel and Nike had secured so many (Nike has also been doing a ton of work on/around their campus).


Damn! I remember when RA was, well, not much.

Started at JF, got moved to HF, then CO, and then finally forced up to DP. Quit for the second time as DP was an absolute shiatshow and not just because of its location.

Nothing like having the whole goddamned building shake from the artillery range right next door.
 
2022-06-15 4:21:02 AM  

SergeantObvious: I've got some simulations I can package up for you to run for me. How many threads can ya spare?

/not even kidding lol


I can certainly think about it. What did you have in mind? (And I hate to ask but is there $ involved?) The lawyer handling my (deceased) FIL's estate is $300/hour and oy gevalt that adds up.
 
2022-06-15 8:39:01 AM  

erik-k: educed power requirements? HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!

I'm considering talking to my boss about buying a new state-of-the-art processor that claims it can run arm, x86 and power9 code using a real-time translator... this processor consumes nearly 900W of power.

The most powerful accelerator GPUs (AMD MI-250 and nVidia H100) are not even available in PCI-e any more partly because they guzzle so much power that pcie power cables can't supply it.


I'm looking forward to the day when gamers start installing a NEMA 6-20 or 6-30 for their computers to get beyond the 1800W peak limitation of the NEMA 5-15.

European gamers....they're set...though they might need a dedicated circuit for their gaming rigs.

What they won't need are heaters in the rooms.
 
2022-06-15 11:39:50 AM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: I'm looking forward to the day when gamers start installing a NEMA 6-20 or 6-30 for their computers to get beyond the 1800W peak limitation of the NEMA 5-15.


You're suggesting both a voltage and amperage upgrade.  You only need one or the other to raise the wattage ceiling to what's needed.

If you're adding a new dedicated circuit, it would be easier and advantageous to go with a 240V15A circuit over a 120V20A circuit.  You'll get cheaper wiring (14awg vs 12awg), a higher current limit, and a cooler running PSU.
 
2022-06-15 11:57:58 AM  

Dinjiin: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: I'm looking forward to the day when gamers start installing a NEMA 6-20 or 6-30 for their computers to get beyond the 1800W peak limitation of the NEMA 5-15.

You're suggesting both a voltage and amperage upgrade.  You only need one or the other to raise the wattage ceiling to what's needed.

If you're adding a new dedicated circuit, it would be easier and advantageous to go with a 240V15A circuit over a 120V20A circuit.  You'll get cheaper wiring (14awg vs 12awg), a higher current limit, and a cooler running PSU.


I suggested that because until now I had no idea a NEMA 6-15 existed....good to know.
 
Displayed 35 of 35 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking




On Twitter


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.