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(Science Alert)   Harness power from the tides but it will probably steal the tides like wind turbines steal the wind and solar steals the light   (sciencealert.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Wind power, Wind turbine, Renewable energy, Electrical generator, Coal, Energy, IHI Corporation, Tidal power  
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757 clicks; posted to STEM » on 11 Jun 2022 at 7:17 PM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-06-11 1:06:17 PM  
If there is even one moving part, oceans will destroy it.
 
2022-06-11 1:20:09 PM  
The fish will all catch turbine cancer! Did we learn nothing from all of the birds that caught windmill cancer?
 
2022-06-11 1:24:28 PM  
There was a ratfark, acid trip of a movie about this, called Southland Tales.
 
2022-06-11 4:39:52 PM  
"Harness power from the tides but it will probably steal the tides like wind turbines steal the wind and solar steals the light"

Hate to break it to subby, but for the tides and the wind, at least, the power that is generated has to come from somewhere. TANSTAAFL. Science! So that means that the wind is a little reduced in speed, and those ocean currents are a little reduced in flow. Not enough to actually matter (with only one or a few turbans installed), but still, technically, reduced, even if only by minuscule amounts.
 
2022-06-11 7:25:18 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: If there is even one moving part, oceans will destroy it.


That's my thought too. It's gotta be more wiggly than rotaty, I think. All internal plumbing and joints that way. Of course you'd have make the fins easily interchangeable and resealable but that's an engineering issue.
 
2022-06-11 7:32:35 PM  

Harlee: "Harness power from the tides but it will probably steal the tides like wind turbines steal the wind and solar steals the light"

Hate to break it to subby, but for the tides and the wind, at least, the power that is generated has to come from somewhere. TANSTAAFL. Science! So that means that the wind is a little reduced in speed, and those ocean currents are a little reduced in flow. Not enough to actually matter (with only one or a few turbans installed), but still, technically, reduced, even if only by minuscule amounts.


i'm waiting for someone to claim that b/c tides are caused by gravity that pitting in tidal generators we will cause the moon to fall down and kill us all.
 
2022-06-11 7:35:43 PM  
Wind farms DO steal energy from wind.  It just so happens we have an excess of that and don't care.

Solar farms DO steal energy from the ground beneath them.  It just so happens it's a net benefit for us in most cases.

Similarly, you're going to be sapping some energy from the tides... which I think, if I've got it right (and I probably don't) will increase the net transfer of energy from the Earth's rotation to the Moon's orbit very slightly.  But should also reduce flexing of the Earth's crust.
 
2022-06-11 7:36:26 PM  

sxacho: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: If there is even one moving part, oceans will destroy it.

That's my thought too. It's gotta be more wiggly than rotaty, I think. All internal plumbing and joints that way. Of course you'd have make the fins easily interchangeable and resealable but that's an engineering issue.


theres literally a picture of it linked in the article
each unit has 2x 2 blade (11 meter ea) propellers driving turbine generators.  then a 3rd unit containing a power transformer and control unit in between them.
 
2022-06-11 7:44:35 PM  

oopsboom: Harlee: "Harness power from the tides but it will probably steal the tides like wind turbines steal the wind and solar steals the light"

Hate to break it to subby, but for the tides and the wind, at least, the power that is generated has to come from somewhere. TANSTAAFL. Science! So that means that the wind is a little reduced in speed, and those ocean currents are a little reduced in flow. Not enough to actually matter (with only one or a few turbans installed), but still, technically, reduced, even if only by minuscule amounts.

i'm waiting for someone to claim that b/c tides are caused by gravity that pitting in tidal generators we will cause the moon to fall down and kill us all.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2022-06-11 7:44:51 PM  
Tides cause cancer.

Just saying it before Trump does.
 
2022-06-11 7:47:44 PM  

Unsung_Hero: Similarly, you're going to be sapping some energy from the tides... which I think, if I've got it right (and I probably don't) will increase the net transfer of energy from the Earth's rotation to the Moon's orbit very slightly.  But should also reduce flexing of the Earth's crust.


that...sounds right?  in a holiday-inn-notebook way.  the generator creates power from the kenetic energy of the tide bugle moving toward the moon.  but in that creation it reduces the speed OF that movement by some miniscule but measurable amount.
therefore there must be some also measurable increase in the theoretical place the net amount of water WOULD BE vs where it IS, with the real location being further from the moon in reality due to the speed reducing action of the generator.  thus the gravity torque effect would be increased by, again, some miniscule but theoretically measurable amount.
 
2022-06-11 7:48:28 PM  

Cache: Tides cause cancer.

Just saying it before Trump does.


but tide pods taste great
 
2022-06-11 8:03:53 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: If there is even one moving part, oceans will destroy it.


If this thing were built anywhere but Japan, I'd be inclined to agree.

But Japan has been developing the technology needed to deal with the ocean for literally thousands of years. If anyone can pull this off, it's the Japanese.
 
2022-06-11 8:10:36 PM  

oopsboom: sxacho: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: If there is even one moving part, oceans will destroy it.

That's my thought too. It's gotta be more wiggly than rotaty, I think. All internal plumbing and joints that way. Of course you'd have make the fins easily interchangeable and resealable but that's an engineering issue.

theres literally a picture of it linked in the article
each unit has 2x 2 blade (11 meter ea) propellers driving turbine generators.  then a 3rd unit containing a power transformer and control unit in between them.


The article. That's cute.

After looking at the article, I stand by the idea that there ought to be more wiggly bits than rotaty bits. I don't trust rotaty bits to be a good enough of a seal.
 
2022-06-11 8:13:31 PM  

Unsung_Hero: Wind farms DO steal energy from wind.  It just so happens we have an excess of that and don't care.

Solar farms DO steal energy from the ground beneath them.  It just so happens it's a net benefit for us in most cases.

Similarly, you're going to be sapping some energy from the tides... which I think, if I've got it right (and I probably don't) will increase the net transfer of energy from the Earth's rotation to the Moon's orbit very slightly.  But should also reduce flexing of the Earth's crust.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-06-11 11:10:32 PM  

BrundleFlyForAWhiteGuy: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: If there is even one moving part, oceans will destroy it.

If this thing were built anywhere but Japan, I'd be inclined to agree.

But Japan has been developing the technology needed to deal with the ocean for literally thousands of years. If anyone can pull this off, it's the Japanese.


I think the Scots were ahead of this. They probably still are. There are all kinds of ocean projects Japan is working on. Methane hydrates with Canada, hydrogen generation with Australia. In Okinawa, there is an ocean thermal project using OTEC for power generation and desalination. And then there is offshore wind... which has remained stunted beyond belief for decades now.

Here is the thing. Farkers bash their heads into walls calling Japanese people stupid for not "doing x." I have to admit that I do not understand why Japan does not "do x" in a lot of cases. I assume that they have their reasons, and that I might not understand them.

This is a creepy thing about Japan. Isaac Asimov picked up on it in his Foundation series, and William Gibson. It is a theme that keeps coming up. I do not think it is sinister, but the Japanese are definitely up to something. Whether people think that is true or not really does not matter.

It is possible that not turbine systems, but baffle systems, will reduce the number of moving parts.

Finally, I will say that Japan gets buffeted by nature quite a bit. Huge amounts of energy are available from winds, tides, currents, rain, etc. If Japan figures it out, then New Zealand, Greenland, and others will become energy exporters.
 
2022-06-11 11:45:48 PM  

2fardownthread: BrundleFlyForAWhiteGuy: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: If there is even one moving part, oceans will destroy it.

If this thing were built anywhere but Japan, I'd be inclined to agree.

But Japan has been developing the technology needed to deal with the ocean for literally thousands of years. If anyone can pull this off, it's the Japanese.

I think the Scots were ahead of this. They probably still are. There are all kinds of ocean projects Japan is working on. Methane hydrates with Canada, hydrogen generation with Australia. In Okinawa, there is an ocean thermal project using OTEC for power generation and desalination. And then there is offshore wind... which has remained stunted beyond belief for decades now.

Here is the thing. Farkers bash their heads into walls calling Japanese people stupid for not "doing x." I have to admit that I do not understand why Japan does not "do x" in a lot of cases. I assume that they have their reasons, and that I might not understand them.

This is a creepy thing about Japan. Isaac Asimov picked up on it in his Foundation series, and William Gibson. It is a theme that keeps coming up. I do not think it is sinister, but the Japanese are definitely up to something. Whether people think that is true or not really does not matter.

It is possible that not turbine systems, but baffle systems, will reduce the number of moving parts.

Finally, I will say that Japan gets buffeted by nature quite a bit. Huge amounts of energy are available from winds, tides, currents, rain, etc. If Japan figures it out, then New Zealand, Greenland, and others will become energy exporters.


https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/28/worlds-most-powerful-tidal-turbine-starts-to-export-power-to-grid-.html

Yep. Couldn't find much more recent on it, but it's supposed to be supplying juice atm
 
2022-06-12 3:11:37 AM  
I farkING KNEW IT.

Everyone has solar in my area now and its been getting darker earlier every day. They keep telling me because it's winter now but those farkers have just been lying to me and capitalising the sun.

/if you'll excuse me I have to take a shiat on their solar panels
 
2022-06-12 3:22:32 AM  
They've been doing great work in tidal generation in the Orkney islands.
 
2022-06-12 5:17:57 AM  

Harlee: "Harness power from the tides but it will probably steal the tides like wind turbines steal the wind and solar steals the light"

Hate to break it to subby, but for the tides and the wind, at least, the power that is generated has to come from somewhere. TANSTAAFL. Science! So that means that the wind is a little reduced in speed, and those ocean currents are a little reduced in flow. Not enough to actually matter (with only one or a few turbans installed), but still, technically, reduced, even if only by minuscule amounts.


I Sikh what you did there.
 
2022-06-12 6:35:47 AM  

fragMasterFlash: The fish will all catch turbine cancer! Did we learn nothing from all of the birds that caught windmill cancer?


What you have to do is mount a fish cannery to one end.  So the fish swim into the turbine then they get sliced and diced and then canned in one go.

The proceeds go to keep the turbine operating at peak efficiency.
 
2022-06-12 6:43:11 AM  

SafetyThird: Harlee: "Harness power from the tides but it will probably steal the tides like wind turbines steal the wind and solar steals the light"

Hate to break it to subby, but for the tides and the wind, at least, the power that is generated has to come from somewhere. TANSTAAFL. Science! So that means that the wind is a little reduced in speed, and those ocean currents are a little reduced in flow. Not enough to actually matter (with only one or a few turbans installed), but still, technically, reduced, even if only by minuscule amounts.

I Sikh what you did there.


My bad. Stupid homophones and being high.
 
2022-06-12 7:42:07 AM  
I had been watching the Pelamis Wave Energy Converter but that went broke even though there is an identical clone of it in the South China Sea.

That device uses a number of large barge like tubes to extract energy without the typical blend the fish issues of turbines.

The amount of energy in the ocean is staggering.  The water between mainland Australia and Tasmania could power the globe. Cape Horn south of Chile has a small mountain of subsea eroded every year and has much higher flow rates.
 
2022-06-12 10:32:19 AM  
'Most powerful' tidal turbine starts generating electricity off Orkney

From 1 year ago: "The 680-tonne turbine is now anchored in the Fall of Warness where a subsea cable connects the 2MW offshore unit to the local onshore electricity network."
 
2022-06-12 11:39:16 AM  
Wind turbines do take a significant amount of energy from the wind. In places where there are several rows of turbines (like palm springs) the turbines in the back can produce 30% less power than those in front.
 
2022-06-12 12:16:41 PM  

wax_on: Wind turbines do take a significant amount of energy from the wind. In places where there are several rows of turbines (like palm springs) the turbines in the back can produce 30% less power than those in front.


Considering that we've destroyed 80% of the world's forest, I think we've got extra wind to spare
 
2022-06-12 2:29:42 PM  

2fardownthread: Here is the thing. Farkers bash their heads into walls calling Japanese people stupid for not "doing x." I have to admit that I do not understand why Japan does not "do x" in a lot of cases. I assume that they have their reasons, and that I might not understand them.

This is a creepy thing about Japan. Isaac Asimov picked up on it in his Foundation series, and William Gibson. It is a theme that keeps coming up. I do not think it is sinister, but the Japanese are definitely up to something. Whether people think that is true or not really does not matter.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-06-13 4:22:05 AM  
Tidal power does impact the Moon's orbit! So when considering tidal power, take into consideration the fate of your great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great. sec..gotta go wee wee.........

back.....great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandchildren.
 
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