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(Vox)   Returning to the office isn't working   (vox.com) divider line
    More: Ironic, Telecommuting, Employment, Small office/home office, Commuting, remote work, number of other office workers, good reason, large payroll company  
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1744 clicks; posted to Business » on 11 Jun 2022 at 12:55 AM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-06-11 12:28:40 AM  
They don't necessarily hate the office. What they hate is not having a good reason to be there.

And this is really it. Employees don't want to be at the office because they don't see why they should need to. Bosses keep throwing generic terms around like "collaboration," but that doesn't translate to anything meaningful for employees, and what you end up with is employees feeling like they're being punished and/or surveiled by being forced into the office for no reason. It feels distrustful and infantilizing, and it makes employees give up a ton of benefits at home (flexible schedule, seeing family more, getting other tasks done simultaneously, no commute) while gaining virtually if not literally nothing.
 
2022-06-11 12:55:38 AM  
No it is not, and if gasoline inventory drops any further there isn't going to be enough for knowledge workers to drive to work anyway
 
2022-06-11 12:55:40 AM  
I like being in the office.

That said, the company closed down the NorCal office so I have no office to go to except for an hour plane flight away to SoCal.
 
2022-06-11 1:03:30 AM  
I get that companies might benefit from added supervision (childish as it may be) and the more informal collaboration that happens in an office.

If it benefits the company, they should be willing to pay more for it. So, what do we say? Is it $2/hr more for working in the office? $3/hr more?

This is capitalism, for fark's sake. Uber calls it "congestion pricing". You can call it the "pain in the ass commuting surcharge". If you want it, pay for it.
 
2022-06-11 1:06:09 AM  

VoiceOfReason499: I get that companies might benefit from added supervision (childish as it may be) and the more informal collaboration that happens in an office.

If it benefits the company, they should be willing to pay more for it. So, what do we say? Is it $2/hr more for working in the office? $3/hr more?

This is capitalism, for fark's sake. Uber calls it "congestion pricing". You can call it the "pain in the ass commuting surcharge". If you want it, pay for it.


When you hit Add Comment and then the perfect analogy comes to mind: cam girls charge less than in-person services for a reason.
 
2022-06-11 1:30:05 AM  

austerity101: They don't necessarily hate the office. What they hate is not having a good reason to be there.

And this is really it. Employees don't want to be at the office because they don't see why they should need to. Bosses keep throwing generic terms around like "collaboration," but that doesn't translate to anything meaningful for employees, and what you end up with is employees feeling like they're being punished and/or surveiled by being forced into the office for no reason. It feels distrustful and infantilizing, and it makes employees give up a ton of benefits at home (flexible schedule, seeing family more, getting other tasks done simultaneously, no commute) while gaining virtually if not literally nothing.


Yup.

My commute isn't very long but it's just wasting my time.  When I work from home I rarely shower and just rollout of bed and start working earlier so really I can get more done from home.

I will admit I do chores during the day but since I'm salaried it doesn't really matter if I take the dog for a quick walk.

They're also right about management not punishing for working more from home.  We started off at 50% and are now at 60% but there's often weeks I only go in one day.  Luckily I guess my boss doesn't really care as long as the work gets done.

/hold on I'm getting a call from my boss...
 
2022-06-11 1:31:55 AM  

VoiceOfReason499: I get that companies might benefit from added supervision (childish as it may be) and the more informal collaboration that happens in an office.

If it benefits the company, they should be willing to pay more for it. So, what do we say? Is it $2/hr more for working in the office? $3/hr more?

This is capitalism, for fark's sake. Uber calls it "congestion pricing". You can call it the "pain in the ass commuting surcharge". If you want it, pay for it.


Or they could lease less office space and save money that way too :)

/they won't
 
2022-06-11 1:34:18 AM  

austerity101: They don't necessarily hate the office. What they hate is not having a good reason to be there.

And this is really it. Employees don't want to be at the office because they don't see why they should need to. Bosses keep throwing generic terms around like "collaboration," but that doesn't translate to anything meaningful for employees, and what you end up with is employees feeling like they're being punished and/or surveiled by being forced into the office for no reason. It feels distrustful and infantilizing, and it makes employees give up a ton of benefits at home (flexible schedule, seeing family more, getting other tasks done simultaneously, no commute) while gaining virtually if not literally nothing.


Yuperoo. WFH is a perfectly transactional agreement--I do the work that is required of my job, and that's it. No two hours tacked on every day in commute time. No hours wasted in useless meetings that are arranged because someone wants to flex nuts. No stupid conversations in the hallway. I do my job, you pay me for it. The end.
 
2022-06-11 1:34:32 AM  
yup. except for the movie industry workers, the 3 sides of my family tree have all decided to work from home or else piss off the capialists by being poor. coontil we get the next gen covid vaccines). fark jobs. jobs are shyte. money is equally useless now that almost everything costs $20 per unit. Several retired people have opened their houses to multiple generations, out of SHEER SPITE against...take your pick, the world's on fire, and the retired people have kayaks or books or farms so they don't give a shiat about the interploers. And we all love rice, lentils, cumin, chili powder; hotdogs and Kraft Dinner; and/or cereal. So fark jobs that make us put on pants. It's summer. You want us to flog your profit margin, we'll get around to it between the Raspberry Pi and the kitchen sink or maybe on a hammock in the barn on Uncle Grandma's Dirt Farm. Hell, there are some of us working-from-home on these little communes and then we shuffle money around to make sure all our bills are paid and fark capitalism, we refuse to work for the covid Nazi regimes that own the means of production unless we can do it in our pjs.
 
2022-06-11 1:37:35 AM  

Bennie Crabtree: yup. except for the movie industry workers, the 3 sides of my family tree have all decided to work from home or else piss off the capialists by being poor. coontil we get the next gen covid vaccines). fark jobs. jobs are shyte. money is equally useless now that almost everything costs $20 per unit. Several retired people have opened their houses to multiple generations, out of SHEER SPITE against...take your pick, the world's on fire, and the retired people have kayaks or books or farms so they don't give a shiat about the interploers. And we all love rice, lentils, cumin, chili powder; hotdogs and Kraft Dinner; and/or cereal. So fark jobs that make us put on pants. It's summer. You want us to flog your profit margin, we'll get around to it between the Raspberry Pi and the kitchen sink or maybe on a hammock in the barn on Uncle Grandma's Dirt Farm. Hell, there are some of us working-from-home on these little communes and then we shuffle money around to make sure all our bills are paid and fark capitalism, we refuse to work for the covid Nazi regimes that own the means of production unless we can do it in our pjs.


One of these days, I suspect you are going to develop the self-confidence to tell us how you really feel.
 
kab
2022-06-11 1:44:55 AM  
I don't miss it in the slightest.
 
2022-06-11 1:50:40 AM  
My company has offices in eight cities. The tech services department I'm in is based out of one city, and most of the project and account team members I work with are based out of a completely different city. Even when I go into the office, I end up on Zoom and Teams calls with remote people a decent chunk of the day. It's hard for me to think this shouldn't be the norm for this kind of work.
 
2022-06-11 1:52:20 AM  
Wait until that over privileged Microsoft worker wins his suit against corporate over wfh costs.  Once companies are on the hook for your at home work expenses they'll be pushing back hard (and government is pushing hard on them so the CRE market doesn't collapse) And with a recession coming up within the year they'll have all the power again.

I got a newsflash for people.  It's always the rich and powerful who make the rules.  Most the people who inhabit the C Suite aren't well balanced people at all and desire subordinates pledging fealty around them, even subconsciously.  And yeh I said most, we have a real interesting way of financially rewarding some of the worst human behavior as things are set up now.  They also do a fark ton more work than most Farkers give them credit for (by choice mind you) and if they suffer, so shall you (even though you make like 1/10 of their package and in CEOs case like 1/50)
 
2022-06-11 2:05:12 AM  
DO NOT COOK FISH IN THE OFFICE MICROWAVE.

That is all.
 
2022-06-11 2:10:39 AM  

KB202: One of these days, I suspect you are going to develop the self-confidence to tell us how you really feel.


I've got gas, but had a fun day. :)
 
2022-06-11 2:18:32 AM  
The company I work for has set up what I call mild-hybrid work. We go in to the office for three consecutive days (Tuesday-Thursday) one week a month about 9 months out of the year. The rest is from home. That office time is when we do training and meetings that are just easier in person. I'm happy with it.
 
2022-06-11 3:20:26 AM  
But but but what about all that office space? Who will occupy those huge, sprawling suburban complexes with the massive fields of parking spaces? Who will pay for all of that unused expensive downtown parking?

And what about all those restaurants, feeding the workers in all those office buildings?

And what of the daycares!

Do you people have any idea what this will do to the economy???
 
2022-06-11 3:42:03 AM  

TheFoz: austerity101: They don't necessarily hate the office. What they hate is not having a good reason to be there.

And this is really it. Employees don't want to be at the office because they don't see why they should need to. Bosses keep throwing generic terms around like "collaboration," but that doesn't translate to anything meaningful for employees, and what you end up with is employees feeling like they're being punished and/or surveiled by being forced into the office for no reason. It feels distrustful and infantilizing, and it makes employees give up a ton of benefits at home (flexible schedule, seeing family more, getting other tasks done simultaneously, no commute) while gaining virtually if not literally nothing.

Yup.

My commute isn't very long but it's just wasting my time.  When I work from home I rarely shower and just rollout of bed and start working earlier so really I can get more done from home.

I will admit I do chores during the day but since I'm salaried it doesn't really matter if I take the dog for a quick walk.

They're also right about management not punishing for working more from home.  We started off at 50% and are now at 60% but there's often weeks I only go in one day.  Luckily I guess my boss doesn't really care as long as the work gets done.

/hold on I'm getting a call from my boss...


Eh....
In the office I would regularly get into conversations that would last for 20-30 minutes which were completely not about work with people that just wanted to chit chat.  Your quick dog walk is the equivalent of that, except on your terms
 
2022-06-11 3:58:40 AM  

Bennie Crabtree: yup. except for the movie industry workers, the 3 sides of my family tree have all decided to work from home or else piss off the capialists by being poor. coontil we get the next gen covid vaccines). fark jobs. jobs are shyte. money is equally useless now that almost everything costs $20 per unit. Several retired people have opened their houses to multiple generations, out of SHEER SPITE against...take your pick, the world's on fire, and the retired people have kayaks or books or farms so they don't give a shiat about the interploers. And we all love rice, lentils, cumin, chili powder; hotdogs and Kraft Dinner; and/or cereal. So fark jobs that make us put on pants. It's summer. You want us to flog your profit margin, we'll get around to it between the Raspberry Pi and the kitchen sink or maybe on a hammock in the barn on Uncle Grandma's Dirt Farm. Hell, there are some of us working-from-home on these little communes and then we shuffle money around to make sure all our bills are paid and fark capitalism, we refuse to work for the covid Nazi regimes that own the means of production unless we can do it in our pjs.


This is basically my attitude. Mitt Romney wants to call me a taker? Fine. I'm on food stamps. Medical care through the VA. If I need cash for something, work under the table. Maybe a little gig work but only if the algorithm treats me nice. I've learned to live with less materialism and I'm happier than I've ever been.

fark employers. fark their shiatty jobs. fark their office, their rules, their pettiness, their idiocy, fark all of it. You want me to come work for you? Show me the money. Show me the benefits. Show me the time off. Above all show me some goddamn respect.

Remember, anytime you hear someone whining, "No one wants to work anymore!" always finish that sentence with, "for the wages, benefits and working conditions I'm prepared to offer."

It's about time employers got biatch slapped by the invisible hand and I, for one, am living for it.
 
2022-06-11 6:55:08 AM  
As the economy starts to roll over, you won't have much of a choice. The pendulum will swing back. If you want to continue to WFH then at layoff time you will be chosen. It sucks, but don't act surprised.
 
2022-06-11 7:34:12 AM  
I had an interview get rescheduled because the person interviewing me last week was stuck in traffic.

He told me that this prospective employer is demanding those near an office to come in now. I laughed my ass off at this whole thing and told him it is not a good look.
 
2022-06-11 7:37:43 AM  
Returning to the office isn't working

Well, no one really wants a reboot of or sequel to The Office.
 
2022-06-11 7:40:16 AM  

austerity101: Bosses keep throwing generic terms around like "collaboration," but that doesn't translate to anything meaningful for employees,


THIS. I farking hate open offices. Bosses always say it improves "collaboration," but numerous studies have shown that they actually impede collaboration because everyone is miserable in an open office.

Bosses should just admit that it's all about packing labor in sardine cans to save on office space rent.

But then again, if it's all about office space rent, then bosses should love remote work. (But employees should be reimbursed for utilities and hardware that they use while working from home. Hell, companies should cover some of their rent too.)
 
2022-06-11 7:41:00 AM  
I like people working from home. (I don't get to, I deliver stuff.)

1) They're not clogging up my roads. I LOVED driving during Covid. I still have the 'Essential Worker' stickers on my van.
2) They're not in my way at the gas stations, in line prepaying for fuel with cash when they have debit and credit cards that work fine at the pump. (I buy fuel daily since 2010. Only one run-in with a pay-at-the-pump skimmer in 2014; all losses were returned within 48 hours and the gas station manager was arrested a week later for installing the skimmers.)
3) They're actually at home to receive the crap they ordered (when I take office supply bulk-outs after my drug route). I'm not UPS or FedEx, I don't throw your stuff from halfway across your lawn, certainly not if it's a 50-lb case of paper.

If you're in a job where you can work from home most of the time, DO IT. If they want you back in the office 5 days a week, you send your supervisors three letters in immediate sequence:

1) A letter requesting a raise, neighborhood of 25% because you're probably underpaid anyway if you're reading Fark.
2) A letter requesting remaining on work-from-home status and/or requesting immediate feedback on YOUR deficiencies from working at home. This isn't about everybody else at work, this IS about YOU. If you're doing 4- to 5-star work from home, ask them why they want you to stop. Point out that your lowered expenses from working at home is like a virtual raise; it's money in your pocket that didn't come out of their budget, it's a win-win.
3) A letter of resignation dated 30 days out. Inform them that this their fault for not giving you a raise and not letting you work from home. Include a list of Now Hiring list of jobs in your field of expertise that you almost qualify for with significant higher salaries. And inform them that you'll withdraw the letter of resignation if one of the other two requests are fulfilled.

It's the tightest job market in 25 years. Take full advantage of it.
 
2022-06-11 7:52:37 AM  
I see a lot of business buildings being sold to become apartments or something because the return to work thing just isn't happening and employees aren't buying it.

As a consultant, a lot of clients have learned that they can get the same level of deliverables without having to worry about reimbursing for T&E, and the places that won't reimburse for T&E aren't going to get anyone to apply that lives outside of a 20-mile drive with gas/air/hotel prices all going up on top of food.

WFH with reduced violence/mass shootings were the only good things that came from COVID.
 
2022-06-11 8:00:42 AM  

bostonguy: Bosses should just admit that it's all about packing labor in sardine cans to save on office space rent.


I was finally able to get my employer to confirm that the only reason they want people back in is that they bought now-useless office blocks, resold them to a leasing company they created, them leased them back from that same company and are now stuck in leases they can't get out of. So, they need to justify the waste by unnecessarily plopping bodies in them so their overseers don't whine they are unused. (Yeah... government.)

I am pretty sure that many companies are in the same situation. For example, Apple spent $3-5 billion on Apple Park that now few employees want to return to.
 
2022-06-11 8:19:02 AM  

dbeshear: 2) A letter requesting remaining on work-from-home status and/or requesting immediate feedback on YOUR deficiencies from working at home. This isn't about everybody else at work, this IS about YOU. If you're doing 4- to 5-star work from home, ask them why they want you to stop. Point out that your lowered expenses from working at home is like a virtual raise; it's money in your pocket that didn't come out of their budget, it's a win-win.


I like this idea. Be prepared for a negative review or termination if this occurs, but generally I see the point behind this kind of action.

I love suddenly "bening on the defense" of asking the boss what you are doing wrong, and them looking like an ass for their dumb idea.
 
2022-06-11 8:29:24 AM  

VoiceOfReason499: VoiceOfReason499: I get that companies might benefit from added supervision (childish as it may be) and the more informal collaboration that happens in an office.

If it benefits the company, they should be willing to pay more for it. So, what do we say? Is it $2/hr more for working in the office? $3/hr more?

This is capitalism, for fark's sake. Uber calls it "congestion pricing". You can call it the "pain in the ass commuting surcharge". If you want it, pay for it.

When you hit Add Comment and then the perfect analogy comes to mind: cam girls charge less than in-person services for a reason.


The French have a term for that.
 
2022-06-11 8:34:18 AM  

DaMannimal: Wait until that over privileged Microsoft worker wins his suit against corporate over wfh costs.  Once companies are on the hook for your at home work expenses they'll be pushing back hard (and government is pushing hard on them so the CRE market doesn't collapse) And with a recession coming up within the year they'll have all the power again.

I got a newsflash for people.  It's always the rich and powerful who make the rules.  Most the people who inhabit the C Suite aren't well balanced people at all and desire subordinates pledging fealty around them, even subconsciously.  And yeh I said most, we have a real interesting way of financially rewarding some of the worst human behavior as things are set up now.  They also do a fark ton more work than most Farkers give them credit for (by choice mind you) and if they suffer, so shall you (even though you make like 1/10 of their package and in CEOs case like 1/50)


Why do you think your posts never make any sense?
 
2022-06-11 8:50:26 AM  
Was in a video "all hands" meeting yesterday where our new IT director was talking about how great it was to be back in the office. Why, yesterday, they even had a water gun fight outside!

I'm glad they had time to do that. The rest of us are working.
 
2022-06-11 8:51:38 AM  

VoiceOfReason499: I get that companies might benefit from added supervision (childish as it may be) and the more informal collaboration that happens in an office.

If it benefits the company, they should be willing to pay more for it. So, what do we say? Is it $2/hr more for working in the office? $3/hr more?

This is capitalism, for fark's sake. Uber calls it "congestion pricing". You can call it the "pain in the ass commuting surcharge". If you want it, pay for it.


And this is already happening, at least anecdotally.
 
2022-06-11 8:57:14 AM  
Retired at the end of last year. I'm an embedded systems hardware engineer. When I started doing this, back in '78, I had an 8x10 cube. The last job, I had a 6 foot desk in an open plan office. Let's just say the quality of life in the office has gone down a bit. The last place had no carpet, no acoustic ceiling and no dividers between me and my neighbors. I had a (usually open) conference room door behind me and was right on the path to the printer.

All the above made it difficult to do my job, which requires a bit of concentration, as well as communication with other engineers. The latter is, I will agree, easier if you're all together. The former had become almost impossible in the open plan setting. Ambient noise was distracting, as were people constantly pushing past my chair to get to the conference room or the printer.

WFH, on the other hand, was blissful. I took some time, at the beginning of th pandemic, to create a workspace in my basement. Carpet, a door that closed, brightly painted walls, a suspended ceiling, wired Ethernet, all the mod cons. Work in that space was easy, no distractions at all, even when my wife had her friends over...just quiet. The wired Ethernet and 300megabit fiber connection gave me connectivity equal to what I had at the office. I could feel the increase in my productivity.

My boss is still WFH. In addition to being my direct supervisor, he does sales and firmware design. He says he's in the office at most a day a month. It seems to me that good internet connectivity and a dedicated home office space are pretty much all that's needed for "knowledge workers" to WFH indefinitely. I can still see the very rare need for the team to assemble in person (client presentations, prototype assembly work, group lunches), but for the most part it looks like The Internet has made WFH competitive with return to office.
 
2022-06-11 9:08:58 AM  

austerity101: "collaboration,"


For every 5 minutes of "collaboration" you end up with 15-20 minutes of gossip and BSing around the office that wastes time.
 
2022-06-11 9:17:54 AM  
The company I work for (and have worked for for 15 years) did a really good job with this whole thing. At the start, mid-March 2020, they closed all offices while the pandemic ramped up. Couple months later, noticing productivity went UP, they permanently closed half the NA offices and made those of us remaining from those offices permanent WFH employees. As things started to open up again they asked us, over and over, how we would be comfortable returning to the office - they asked every two months or so. And then, get this, they listened to us.

They re-wrote the employee handbook to include guidelines around working from home, gave those of us with no office to return to a one time stipend to set up our home offices and all employees, perma-remote or not, get a yearly budget for supplies, there is no mandatory attendance for those who still have offices to go to. And for those who do go back, parties. Return to office parties, season parties, office activities, etc. not everyone's cup of tea but those who like that sort of thing tend to want to be in offices anyway so it works.

To keep the company cohesive, a new group was formed - an employee advocacy group of sorts - to regularly touch base with everyone and keep sight of how the employee landscape is changing. As a result of this group they have implemented a number of "initiatives" that we asked for - job sharing training, job shadowing should any of us want to move into different roles, etc. they've also brought in a monk to regularly talk to us about mindfulness (ever meditated with 300 other people? It's wild!). There are caregiver benefits we did not have before, mental health benefits we did not have before, financial planning benefits we did not have before, skills training we did not have before, medical benefits we did not have before, etc.

It's been incredible.
And as I always say when I post about how the company I work for f*cking nailed the last 2.5 years, it was not without some significant hardship. Change like this always involves pain. For those of us who are still employees, the company has started the retention benefits - "thanks for sticking with us while we returned to profit, here's a 15% raise."

/gratitude.
 
2022-06-11 9:29:20 AM  
Its not about the employee, it's about the employer.

They're the ones, you know, paying you money to perform a service.

Don't like it? Get a different job.

It really really is that simple. There are plenty of jobs for people willing to work.
 
2022-06-11 9:39:36 AM  

mrmopar5287: austerity101: "collaboration,"

For every 5 minutes of "collaboration" you end up with 15-20 minutes of gossip and BSing around the office that wastes time.


I definitely enjoy the dildoes that pretend if you are working from home you are spending all your time screwing around, but ignore just how much ploitering goes on. People that have made an art out of walking around with  clipboard or preventing other people from working by chatting.
 
2022-06-11 9:41:00 AM  

zgrizz: Its not about the employee, it's about the employer.

They're the ones, you know, paying you money to perform a service.

Don't like it? Get a different job.

It really really is that simple. There are plenty of jobs for people willing to work.


There would be plenty of workers for people willing to pay.
 
2022-06-11 9:41:25 AM  

zgrizz: Its not about the employer, it's about the employee.

They're the ones, you know, being paid money to perform a service.

Don't like it? Get a different business model or watch your business fail.

It really really is that simple. There are plenty of jobs for people willing to work from home.


Fixed for current job market conditions.
 
2022-06-11 10:20:59 AM  
Last office I worked in was 2011...Small boutique shop, the "boss" was a few years younger than me, his daddy kept it floating some months.... 4 years the boss decided he wanted me to quit and stopped giving me work to do...I had to explain to this dude that he had to lay me off if he doesn't have work for me to do, he couldn't fire me, I was actively asking for more work.  So finally I get laid off and file for unemployment and he starts harassing me to reconsider going on unemployment and come back to work for him as an independent contractor...

long story short, if you're a business owner...pay your taxes before you lay someone off if you don't know what the fark you're doing.

Never working for anyone else again.
 
2022-06-11 10:45:07 AM  
My president, in a meeting with senior management on Monday:  "Push your teams to come back into the office"

My president, half an hour later: "The VP and I both tested positive for Covid.  You should probably go home."
 
2022-06-11 10:46:32 AM  
One more thing along the lines of retaining talent. this is a great one. Know how companies do exit interviews when folks leave? How backwards is that?! Find out why people are leaving before they leave!

The company I work for just started conducting "stay interviews" (one of the products of the employee advocacy group).They ask what the company should start/stop doing, if people have considered leaving and why, what people enjoy the most/least about their job, what software is worth/not worth using, how they ate doing with the company's new remote working set up, etc. The interviews are done by employees and are anonymous. The results are compiled and coded for delivery to leadership.

These are very useful in discovering how to retain talent before we annoy them to the point of leaving.
 
2022-06-11 10:48:15 AM  
Sorry, clarification - the stay interviews are conducted by employees, not management or leadership. We're asking each other the questions.
 
2022-06-11 11:07:50 AM  

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: But but but what about all that office space? Who will occupy those huge, sprawling suburban complexes with the massive fields of parking spaces? Who will pay for all of that unused expensive downtown parking?

And what about all those restaurants, feeding the workers in all those office buildings?

And what of the daycares!

Do you people have any idea what this will do to the economy???


Yes, we do - it's called realignment and it happens all the time

Hopefully, the LLCs that own all that real estate will go tits-up and that land can be bought and re-purposed so that we can have actually efficient living areas. 

What would happen if you DOUBLED the amount of land available for use ? Most office spaces are dead quiet and empty 3/4 of the time. How much housing and how much culture could no into those spaces?
 
2022-06-11 11:20:05 AM  

zgrizz: Its not about the employee, it's about the employer.

They're the ones, you know, paying you money to perform a service.

Don't like it? Get a different job.

It really really is that simple. There are plenty of jobs for people willing to work.


I think most of us criticizing return to office are doing work where "commute to a company location" doesn't qualify as a job skill.
 
2022-06-11 11:21:09 AM  
Abandoning the office to work from home is the reverse mortgage of work ideas. You get what you need but at the end there's no training, no continuity of service and your kids won't be able to catch up.

The mini heat dome over SF yesterday had EVERYONE in the office for THE A/C.

In the end the cheaper power costs and climate change will drive people back to the office. Well that and proximity bias and ambition.
 
2022-06-11 11:26:24 AM  

bostonguy: austerity101: Bosses keep throwing generic terms around like "collaboration," but that doesn't translate to anything meaningful for employees,

THIS. I farking hate open offices. Bosses always say it improves "collaboration," but numerous studies have shown that they actually impede collaboration because everyone is miserable in an open office.

Bosses should just admit that it's all about packing labor in sardine cans to save on office space rent.

But then again, if it's all about office space rent, then bosses should love remote work. (But employees should be reimbursed for utilities and hardware that they use while working from home. Hell, companies should cover some of their rent too.)


I don't begrudge my employer my $1 a day of electricity that I may or may not use in powering the hardware they gave me.  It's farking cheaper than the farking gas I'd have burned going into the office, and it is a damn sight less than the opportunity cost of the hour per day I'd spend commuting.
 
2022-06-11 11:28:16 AM  

rubi_con_man: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: But but but what about all that office space? Who will occupy those huge, sprawling suburban complexes with the massive fields of parking spaces? Who will pay for all of that unused expensive downtown parking?

And what about all those restaurants, feeding the workers in all those office buildings?

And what of the daycares!

Do you people have any idea what this will do to the economy???

Yes, we do - it's called realignment and it happens all the time. 

Hopefully, the LLCs that own all that real estate will go tits-up and that land can be bought and re-purposed so that we can have actually efficient living areas. 

What would happen if you DOUBLED the amount of land available for use ? Most office spaces are dead quiet and empty 3/4 of the time. How much housing and how much culture could no into those spaces?


If I had the ability to raise a few hundred million, right now I'd be launching a office to condo real estate company.

Oh, I'd also need a lot more time each day... pretty busy already.
 
2022-06-11 11:39:30 AM  
... all of this goes to show one thing:

No one likes using public transportation.
 
2022-06-11 11:57:27 AM  
My employer has gone full WFH4EVR for anyone that wants to and it is honestly a bit of a red flag when I interview someone who wants to be full-time at the office - is this person a no-talent try-hard who's only useful skill is schmoozing?

When you WFH, your work-product pretty much stands alone - either you're delivering or you're not.  Without an office, politics and personal relationships get sidelined - you're just another anonymous screen name and that screen name better produce.
 
2022-06-11 12:16:58 PM  

MadHatter500: rubi_con_man: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: But but but what about all that office space? Who will occupy those huge, sprawling suburban complexes with the massive fields of parking spaces? Who will pay for all of that unused expensive downtown parking?

And what about all those restaurants, feeding the workers in all those office buildings?

And what of the daycares!

Do you people have any idea what this will do to the economy???

Yes, we do - it's called realignment and it happens all the time. 

Hopefully, the LLCs that own all that real estate will go tits-up and that land can be bought and re-purposed so that we can have actually efficient living areas. 

What would happen if you DOUBLED the amount of land available for use ? Most office spaces are dead quiet and empty 3/4 of the time. How much housing and how much culture could no into those spaces?

If I had the ability to raise a few hundred million, right now I'd be launching a office to condo real estate company.

Oh, I'd also need a lot more time each day... pretty busy already.


My building has one set of bathrooms on each floor. Plumbing would be a huge issue.
 
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