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(CBR)   (Sees headline) This will bring calm, balanced agreement to Fark's Star Wars fans. Subby gets Sith cloak and cane, walks away like Emperor Palpatine at the end of his first scene in Return of the Jedi   (cbr.com) divider line
    More: Sappy, Star Wars, Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Luke's exile, Luke Skywalker  
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947 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 08 Jun 2022 at 3:18 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-06-08 2:46:29 PM  
...and, like most folks, that article completely skips over the whole casino bit.
 
2022-06-08 3:08:31 PM  
Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi is a miracle

It's a big "Fark you to JJ" and the next film was a big "Fark you to Rian". The whole thing was a big circle jerk.
 
2022-06-08 3:17:11 PM  

Mugato: Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi is a miracle

It's a big "Fark you to JJ" and the next film was a big "Fark you to Rian". The whole thing was a big circle jerk.


THAT, I blame on Disney seemingly not having any damn plan for the trilogy. Either that, or just handing Rian a giant bag of money and then farking off for a year.

/I liked most of Rey/Luke's storyline in TLJ, and the tie-in of Ben's storyline
//Didn't really like Poe's.
///Or Rose/Finn's.
 
2022-06-08 3:18:16 PM  
Cool. Troll articles are always fun.
 
2022-06-08 3:24:40 PM  
I recently realized that I unabashedly love Weekend at Bernie's.
 
2022-06-08 3:30:47 PM  
Last Jedi fails for not having bearded Spock.
 
2022-06-08 3:34:14 PM  
TLJ had some interesting ideas but the script was trash. Next time don't hand in a rough draft as your finished project.
 
2022-06-08 3:50:06 PM  
I think the dumbest thing in the movie (yes i know its a huge list to pick from and they all fight for #1) was the actual megadestroyer itself. 13km long, 60km wide, 4km tall. You basically had the raw materials for a dozen super star destroyers or 3 dozen normal star destroyers, which is a far better tactical choice, and they went with this just so they could break the rules of the universe to do some cool cgi with

The single biggest flaw of star wars is the asinine obsession with one superthing after another after another. If they cant figure out how to write stories without them they should fire all their writers and find ones who have intelligence
 
2022-06-08 3:57:55 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: I recently realized that I unabashedly love Weekend at Bernie's.


I get that. I watched Something Wild for the first time last week in honor of the late Ray Liotta and came away with greater appreciation for the masterpiece that is Cherry 2000.

Same film -- Melanie Griffith takes a yuppie square caught in a weird sex situation for a drive through a hellscape -- minus Liotta, but just better weird with that Jack Deth guy instead along with Griffith being '80s Furiosa.

/You would think they would instruct folks not to take your sex bot into the hot tub
 
2022-06-08 4:07:39 PM  

Concrete Donkey: I think the dumbest thing in the movie (yes i know its a huge list to pick from and they all fight for #1) was the actual megadestroyer itself. 13km long, 60km wide, 4km tall. You basically had the raw materials for a dozen super star destroyers or 3 dozen normal star destroyers, which is a far better tactical choice, and they went with this just so they could break the rules of the universe to do some cool cgi with

The single biggest flaw of star wars is the asinine obsession with one superthing after another after another. If they cant figure out how to write stories without them they should fire all their writers and find ones who have intelligence


In universe, it's some weird obsession the Empire had. Make a giant thing that will change the battlefield, even if the resources could be used far better elsewhere.The one canon competitor was Thrawn's Defender program, but between him disappearing and the factories being destroyed, they finished up the Death Star instead.
 
2022-06-08 4:11:35 PM  

Bootleg: Mugato: Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi is a miracle

It's a big "Fark you to JJ" and the next film was a big "Fark you to Rian". The whole thing was a big circle jerk.

THAT, I blame on Disney seemingly not having any damn plan for the trilogy. Either that, or just handing Rian a giant bag of money and then farking off for a year.

/I liked most of Rey/Luke's storyline in TLJ, and the tie-in of Ben's storyline
//Didn't really like Poe's.
///Or Rose/Finn's.


I wonder if it's possible to put together a "Phantom Edit"-style cut of TLJ and basically removes everything that didn't directly involve the Rey/Kylo/Luke storyline and still make some sense. The half of the movie that was about actual Jedi was pretty darn good.  The rest of the movie, however, was a dumpster fire.

I'm still convinced that they wrote the Jedi half and then realized there was no way to pad that out to an hour-and-a-half and then handed it to an intern to fill in the Poe/Rose/Finn part.
 
2022-06-08 4:20:08 PM  

Dr. Nightmare: Bootleg: Mugato: Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi is a miracle

It's a big "Fark you to JJ" and the next film was a big "Fark you to Rian". The whole thing was a big circle jerk.

THAT, I blame on Disney seemingly not having any damn plan for the trilogy. Either that, or just handing Rian a giant bag of money and then farking off for a year.

/I liked most of Rey/Luke's storyline in TLJ, and the tie-in of Ben's storyline
//Didn't really like Poe's.
///Or Rose/Finn's.

I wonder if it's possible to put together a "Phantom Edit"-style cut of TLJ and basically removes everything that didn't directly involve the Rey/Kylo/Luke storyline and still make some sense. The half of the movie that was about actual Jedi was pretty darn good.  The rest of the movie, however, was a dumpster fire.

I'm still convinced that they wrote the Jedi half and then realized there was no way to pad that out to an hour-and-a-half and then handed it to an intern to fill in the Poe/Rose/Finn part.


Poe's story line was his character growth, but his character was only "Hotshot pilot". Rian should have worked on deepening his character before growing it (Minimum change, have him showing regrets over the loss of his pilots, stress of maintaining the fighter screen during the chase).
Finn... I don't know what to do with. Rose either.
 
2022-06-08 4:40:16 PM  

Bootleg: Poe's story line was his character growth, but his character was only "Hotshot pilot". Rian should have worked on deepening his character before growing it (Minimum change, have him showing regrets over the loss of his pilots, stress of maintaining the fighter screen during the chase).
Finn... I don't know what to do with. Rose either.


IMO, Poe's arc was perfect for the middle film; cut the hotshot down, have him be responsible for the deaths of most of the resistance, and then, the only leader they have left.  It's both a massive lesson on his own arrogance and hubris, and the opportunity to learn from it.  You'd need to follow that up well, and that never happened, though (or did so basically off-screen).

Finn, they wrote themselves into a corner with in Force Awakens.  They made him a coward.  That's why he fled the Empire; not because of a moral crisis, but cowardice.  He didn't see Poe and want to join the fight, he just saw Poe as a way out.  Johnson tried to salvage that with some nonsense about a tracker that Finn would know the codes to access because screw you, even though he was only ever a Storm Trooper.  It wasn't a good save, but he had very little to work with.  Give Finn a higher rank, corporal/sergeant equivalent, with a small group he commands.  Have the Empire throw them into the meatgrinder we see, without telling them.  Have Finn see the horrors men like him are perpetrating with fresh eyes, and choose to take what's left and go rogue.  Have him get caught immediately, have his remaining men killed in front of him for following him, and continue with Poe as before.  That justifies an understanding of Imperial codes and tactics, it removes the cowardice and gives Finn a direct moral reason for hating and fighting the Empire, and we can focus on him turning those skills to helping the Resistance's ground troops get prepared.  But you needed to start all that in Force Awakens.  Abrams is the one who blew it with Finn, not Johnson.

Rose could've been fine, she was just shoehorned in by Johnson and Abrams clearly didn't want her around.  The problems there are more script-related, trying to deal with Finn's poor backstory.  Also, trying to tie her immediately to Finn came off as trying to give him a runner-up because he was never gonna be with Rey, and that's crappy on all counts.
 
2022-06-08 4:49:17 PM  
fark that click bait bullshiat site.

Anyone who recommends these movies as anything but the blue print of how to crash a multi billion dollar franchise and burn the good will of millions of fans/consumers for the past 40/20 years I automatically assume is a farking jerk off who isn't worth listening to.
 
2022-06-08 4:53:06 PM  
Problems with the movie

1. Space chase was boring
2. Finn being wasted
3. Bad stunt work
4. Casino section was a waste of time.
 
2022-06-08 5:08:26 PM  
I predicted 9 years ago that Disney would utterly ruin Star Wars if they ever got their hands on it.

I'm not kidding.
 
2022-06-08 5:10:18 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-06-08 5:20:25 PM  

Rev.K: [Fark user image image 850x218]


Well, you accurately predicted the bad new characters, but even with your extreme pessimism you still didn't foresee how bad they'd f*ck up the old ones.
 
2022-06-08 5:21:20 PM  

Concrete Donkey: I think the dumbest thing in the movie (yes i know its a huge list to pick from and they all fight for #1) was the actual megadestroyer itself. 13km long, 60km wide, 4km tall. You basically had the raw materials for a dozen super star destroyers or 3 dozen normal star destroyers, which is a far better tactical choice, and they went with this just so they could break the rules of the universe to do some cool cgi with

The single biggest flaw of star wars is the asinine obsession with one superthing after another after another. If they cant figure out how to write stories without them they should fire all their writers and find ones who have intelligence


I think it tracks pretty well with our current dystopia - tell me Republicans wouldn't fall all over themselves to be the one claiming the übervessel was their idea, were they capable of building one. You don't like Starmuncher? Why are you against our glorious republic Empire?
 
2022-06-08 5:23:11 PM  

Gene Masseth: Concrete Donkey: I think the dumbest thing in the movie (yes i know its a huge list to pick from and they all fight for #1) was the actual megadestroyer itself. 13km long, 60km wide, 4km tall. You basically had the raw materials for a dozen super star destroyers or 3 dozen normal star destroyers, which is a far better tactical choice, and they went with this just so they could break the rules of the universe to do some cool cgi with

The single biggest flaw of star wars is the asinine obsession with one superthing after another after another. If they cant figure out how to write stories without them they should fire all their writers and find ones who have intelligence

I think it tracks pretty well with our current dystopia - tell me Republicans wouldn't fall all over themselves to be the one claiming the übervessel was their idea, were they capable of building one. You don't like Starmuncher? Why are you against our glorious republic Empire?


Schwerer Gustav.

It has historical merit.
 
2022-06-08 5:30:55 PM  
Subby be trollin' and basking in the chaos that ensues.
 
2022-06-08 5:39:26 PM  
My Opinion:

1) Star Wars (Main Story) is an escapist fairy tale with archetypes, not a realism based story with three dimensional characters. It's about time tested patterns, motifs and symbolism.

2) Rain Johnson directed and wrote the shiat out of the movie, and it's cinematic gold. However a HORRIBLE Star Wars movie. You don't trash the heroes. You don't have them divorced with an evil son or a recluse hero that let the galaxy fall.

It's just Generation X and Y working out their "isn't this kewl and EXTREME" jerk off fantasy.

Mark Hammil knew this and rightfully objected. However, he's also a professional and contractually obligated and did a great job.

If Rain Johnson wanted to do his own Star Wars trilogy, with his own characters, then fine.

But Lucas had a successful formula that worked.
 
2022-06-08 5:54:01 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: I recently realized that I unabashedly love Weekend at Bernie's.


It's not easy playing a lifeless dead guy that well.
 
2022-06-08 5:54:16 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: My Opinion:

1) Star Wars (Main Story) is an escapist fairy tale with archetypes, not a realism based story with three dimensional characters. It's about time tested patterns, motifs and symbolism.

2) Rain Johnson directed and wrote the shiat out of the movie, and it's cinematic gold. However a HORRIBLE Star Wars movie. You don't trash the heroes. You don't have them divorced with an evil son or a recluse hero that let the galaxy fall.

It's just Generation X and Y working out their "isn't this kewl and EXTREME" jerk off fantasy.

Mark Hammil knew this and rightfully objected. However, he's also a professional and contractually obligated and did a great job.

If Rain Johnson wanted to do his own Star Wars trilogy, with his own characters, then fine.

But Lucas had a successful formula that worked.


To be fair.... The divorced with evil son and recluse hero that let the galaxy fall was JJ's move, not Rian's.
 
2022-06-08 5:54:27 PM  

Rev.K: I predicted 9 years ago that Disney would utterly ruin Star Wars if they ever got their hands on it.

I'm not kidding.


You're making it seem like the franchise was great to begin with. The original trilogy was cool because no one had done anything in space with that level of production values before, and the cast was magnetic enough to carry it. The films themselves are hot garbage. The prequels somehow managed to be even worse, and didn't have the acting or effects wizardry to help us overlook it. The books had a handful of gems but were mostly pulp schlock. The games and animated series were the best part of everything that came before Disney, and Lucas basically had nothing to do with those because he genuinely didn't give a shiat and just wanted to make money.

And frankly, most of the fans who froth at the mouth about pre-Disney SW are the most horrible, toxic shiat stains on the internet. TLJ was the best of the new trilogy, Rogue One was the best of the new films overall, and if Disney could just remember what made the MCU so successful and follow that formula, they could make things Lucas couldn't dream of writing.
 
2022-06-08 6:00:39 PM  

Chemlight Battery: Rev.K: [Fark user image image 850x218]

Well, you accurately predicted the bad new characters, but even with your extreme pessimism you still didn't foresee how bad they'd f*ck up the old ones.


What did Yoda and Ben do when i faltered in my Jedi training? Oh, that's right, they tried to kill me in my sleep.

Well, time to kill my nephew in his sleep. Hope my sister and best friend (also my brother in law) don't mind.
 
2022-06-08 6:05:18 PM  

born_yesterday: Chemlight Battery: Rev.K: [Fark user image image 850x218]

Well, you accurately predicted the bad new characters, but even with your extreme pessimism you still didn't foresee how bad they'd f*ck up the old ones.

What did Yoda and Ben do when i faltered in my Jedi training? Oh, that's right, they tried to kill me in my sleep.

Well, time to kill my nephew in his sleep. Hope my sister and best friend (also my brother in law) don't mind.


I... Disagree with that interpretation. I see it as Luke nearly falling to the dark-side (Again). He sees his troubled nephew, and get a glimpse of the future, the pain and suffering his nephew causes, all the death and destruction. In that moment, he could cut that future down, save endless lives with a single sacrifice... But he pulls back, because he realizes it'd be wrong and giving into the dark side of the force. Unfortunately, he pulls back after already pulling his sabre and once Ben wakes up, and the potential future he saw solidifies.
 
2022-06-08 6:09:36 PM  

Night Train to Wakanda: Gene Masseth: Concrete Donkey: I think the dumbest thing in the movie (yes i know its a huge list to pick from and they all fight for #1) was the actual megadestroyer itself. 13km long, 60km wide, 4km tall. You basically had the raw materials for a dozen super star destroyers or 3 dozen normal star destroyers, which is a far better tactical choice, and they went with this just so they could break the rules of the universe to do some cool cgi with

The single biggest flaw of star wars is the asinine obsession with one superthing after another after another. If they cant figure out how to write stories without them they should fire all their writers and find ones who have intelligence

I think it tracks pretty well with our current dystopia - tell me Republicans wouldn't fall all over themselves to be the one claiming the übervessel was their idea, were they capable of building one. You don't like Starmuncher? Why are you against our glorious republic Empire?

Schwerer Gustav.

It has historical merit.


Not really a real comparison. That was the tail end of the era where your only option for long range damage was a cannon, because missiles didnt really exist yet and bombing runs were hilariously inaccurate (to the tune of having a 16% chance of landing a bomb within 1000 feet of the target). A better comparison would be more along the lines of the proposed Landkeruzer P. 1000 Ratte vs a tiger, or a conventional ICMB vs a predator strike
 
2022-06-08 6:19:18 PM  

Concrete Donkey: Night Train to Wakanda: Gene Masseth: Concrete Donkey: I think the dumbest thing in the movie (yes i know its a huge list to pick from and they all fight for #1) was the actual megadestroyer itself. 13km long, 60km wide, 4km tall. You basically had the raw materials for a dozen super star destroyers or 3 dozen normal star destroyers, which is a far better tactical choice, and they went with this just so they could break the rules of the universe to do some cool cgi with

The single biggest flaw of star wars is the asinine obsession with one superthing after another after another. If they cant figure out how to write stories without them they should fire all their writers and find ones who have intelligence

I think it tracks pretty well with our current dystopia - tell me Republicans wouldn't fall all over themselves to be the one claiming the übervessel was their idea, were they capable of building one. You don't like Starmuncher? Why are you against our glorious republic Empire?

Schwerer Gustav.

It has historical merit.

Not really a real comparison. That was the tail end of the era where your only option for long range damage was a cannon, because missiles didnt really exist yet and bombing runs were hilariously inaccurate (to the tune of having a 16% chance of landing a bomb within 1000 feet of the target). A better comparison would be more along the lines of the proposed Landkeruzer P. 1000 Ratte vs a tiger, or a conventional ICMB vs a predator strike


It doesn't matter about the tactical efficacy of the weapon, just that it existed and was created to combat a tactical deficiency in a  war.

Evil empires using super weapons of impossibly large size is the trope.
 
2022-06-08 6:22:08 PM  

Concrete Donkey: I think the dumbest thing in the movie (yes i know its a huge list to pick from and they all fight for #1) was the actual megadestroyer itself. 13km long, 60km wide, 4km tall. You basically had the raw materials for a dozen super star destroyers or 3 dozen normal star destroyers, which is a far better tactical choice, and they went with this just so they could break the rules of the universe to do some cool cgi with

The single biggest flaw of star wars is the asinine obsession with one superthing after another after another. If they cant figure out how to write stories without them they should fire all their writers and find ones who have intelligence


This doesn't bug me because there's plenty of history of monarchs, dictators, and the like being obsessed with mega-projects and having the biggest something.  It absolutely is impractical and an irrational use of resources, but my brain goes "yeah, that tracks for a despot."
 
2022-06-08 6:25:30 PM  

MechaPyx: TLJ had some interesting ideas but the script was trash. Next time don't hand in a rough draft as your finished project.


Tell that to Abrams as well.
 
2022-06-08 6:27:20 PM  
More interesting than this rehashing of "TLJ sux!" for the 1000000th time is the link mid-article to an interview with the Empire director from back when Empire was released. They talk about how "some" fans didn't like the ending. Guarantee* if the internet existed in Empire times the same loud minority would be down-voting Empire on IMDB and talking about how it ruined Star Wars.

*Can't actually prove guarantee
 
2022-06-08 6:43:50 PM  

Bootleg: Mugato: Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi is a miracle

It's a big "Fark you to JJ" and the next film was a big "Fark you to Rian". The whole thing was a big circle jerk.

THAT, I blame on Disney seemingly not having any damn plan for the trilogy. Either that, or just handing Rian a giant bag of money and then farking off for a year.

/I liked most of Rey/Luke's storyline in TLJ, and the tie-in of Ben's storyline
//Didn't really like Poe's.
///Or Rose/Finn's.


I'm a little higher on it than you are.  I really liked Rey & Luke's storyline, Rey's epiphany about how it didn't matter who her parents were and that her value lies entirely with herself was one of my favorite moments of the new trilogy.  I rate Poe's as "okay," I liked the learning to lead & learning from mistakes theme they were going for, but they botched the execution.  They at least needed to drop more hints for the audience that the admiral wasn't just BS'ing Poe.  Rose and Finn's plotline was dumb, hamfisted, and could be excised completely from the movie and it wouldn't make a difference to the larger story.  It was worse than bad, it was pointless and bad.
 
2022-06-08 6:45:38 PM  

Rev.K: I predicted 9 years ago that Disney would utterly ruin Star Wars if they ever got their hands on it.

I'm not kidding.


Rev.K: [Fark user image 850x218]


Now I'm curious, in your opinion, what did the prequels do to Star Wars?
 
2022-06-08 7:17:41 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-06-08 7:25:09 PM  

Polish Hussar: Rev.K: I predicted 9 years ago that Disney would utterly ruin Star Wars if they ever got their hands on it.

I'm not kidding.

Rev.K: [Fark user image 850x218]

Now I'm curious, in your opinion, what did the prequels do to Star Wars?


In my opinion, they made the universe seem larger, more interesting, and even more full of new and mysterious worlds just waiting to be discovered and stories just waiting to be told.

Here is a totally unique and interesting planet from Episode 3 that is on screen for a whopping 25 seconds.

Star Wars - Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith - Aayla Secura's Death [HD] | Jesse
Youtube j75d8yaaQ4M


The Disney sequels made the universe seem small and boring.

What's this planet?

pa1.narvii.comView Full Size


It's Jakku. Which is exactly like Tattooine in every respect except that it has a different name.

What about this one?

66.media.tumblr.comView Full Size


You'd be forgiven if you thought it was Coruscant that got blowed up in TFA, since it looks exactly like it and serves exactly the same purpose. But it's not. It's a planet called... actually I don't care what it's called.

That extends to the characters and the plots. TFA is basically the same ANH. BB-8 serves exactly the same purpose as R2-D2. In fact, they just had R2 just take a nap through all of TFA because there was no point in having two of them. We have big walkers attacking a rebel resistance base on a snow planet.

Sorry. Actually it's salt.

SALT.

The sequels made me feel like there's nothing new out there in the Star Wars universe. It is small. It is full of redundancies. It is boring. And there's no point in returning to it. Because we've seen everything there is to see.
 
2022-06-08 7:45:04 PM  

CheatCommando: MechaPyx: TLJ had some interesting ideas but the script was trash. Next time don't hand in a rough draft as your finished project.

Tell that to Abrams as well.


He's not taking my calls anymore. Something about a restraining order.
 
2022-06-08 8:05:51 PM  
I didn't enjoy the movie.
 
2022-06-08 8:36:17 PM  

Polish Hussar: Now I'm curious, in your opinion, what did the prequels do to Star Wars?


Also ruined it.

But my point is that Disney is big business and they are going to squeeze Star Wars for every conceivable penny they think they can get out of it.

And in large part, I have been right.

How many f*ckin' movies and series' are there now?

Too f*ckin' many.
 
2022-06-08 8:55:02 PM  

Polish Hussar: Concrete Donkey: I think the dumbest thing in the movie (yes i know its a huge list to pick from and they all fight for #1) was the actual megadestroyer itself. 13km long, 60km wide, 4km tall. You basically had the raw materials for a dozen super star destroyers or 3 dozen normal star destroyers, which is a far better tactical choice, and they went with this just so they could break the rules of the universe to do some cool cgi with

The single biggest flaw of star wars is the asinine obsession with one superthing after another after another. If they cant figure out how to write stories without them they should fire all their writers and find ones who have intelligence

This doesn't bug me because there's plenty of history of monarchs, dictators, and the like being obsessed with mega-projects and having the biggest something.  It absolutely is impractical and an irrational use of resources, but my brain goes "yeah, that tracks for a despot."


I have seen dipshiats try to argue that Palpatine would rule as a good guy because of course that's the only way to efficiently rule for a long period of time.
 
2022-06-08 8:58:35 PM  
*essentially a plot hole is "I wouldn't do it that way so I cannot imagine a character doing that"
 
2022-06-08 9:03:45 PM  

Bootleg: Darth_Lukecash: My Opinion:

1) Star Wars (Main Story) is an escapist fairy tale with archetypes, not a realism based story with three dimensional characters. It's about time tested patterns, motifs and symbolism.

2) Rain Johnson directed and wrote the shiat out of the movie, and it's cinematic gold. However a HORRIBLE Star Wars movie. You don't trash the heroes. You don't have them divorced with an evil son or a recluse hero that let the galaxy fall.

It's just Generation X and Y working out their "isn't this kewl and EXTREME" jerk off fantasy.

Mark Hammil knew this and rightfully objected. However, he's also a professional and contractually obligated and did a great job.

If Rain Johnson wanted to do his own Star Wars trilogy, with his own characters, then fine.

But Lucas had a successful formula that worked.

To be fair.... The divorced with evil son and recluse hero that let the galaxy fall was JJ's move, not Rian's.


True: But JJ was just as bad if not worse.

Abrams even admitted that Disney should have plotted the first three movies out.

When Lucas made Star Wars, he had somewhat of a backstory filled out. But Lucas seriously didn't think he was going to get to make more than one. So he put the cool stuff in, and made a self contained story.

Yes, he did make it up as he went along: due to real life changes and a desire to stop doing Star Wars and concentrate on his kids. But he had ideas that could be woven into the fabric of what was done. Not perfectly, mind you-but close enough to be plausible.
 
2022-06-08 9:07:08 PM  

Fano: Polish Hussar: Concrete Donkey: I think the dumbest thing in the movie (yes i know its a huge list to pick from and they all fight for #1) was the actual megadestroyer itself. 13km long, 60km wide, 4km tall. You basically had the raw materials for a dozen super star destroyers or 3 dozen normal star destroyers, which is a far better tactical choice, and they went with this just so they could break the rules of the universe to do some cool cgi with

The single biggest flaw of star wars is the asinine obsession with one superthing after another after another. If they cant figure out how to write stories without them they should fire all their writers and find ones who have intelligence

This doesn't bug me because there's plenty of history of monarchs, dictators, and the like being obsessed with mega-projects and having the biggest something.  It absolutely is impractical and an irrational use of resources, but my brain goes "yeah, that tracks for a despot."

I have seen dipshiats try to argue that Palpatine would rule as a good guy because of course that's the only way to efficiently rule for a long period of time.


The empire existed for... 20 years? 25, tops? Stalin was in charge of the USSR for like 30. Are they saying Palpy was less effective than Stalin? Stalin was a good guy?
 
2022-06-08 9:10:19 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Bootleg: Darth_Lukecash: My Opinion:

1) Star Wars (Main Story) is an escapist fairy tale with archetypes, not a realism based story with three dimensional characters. It's about time tested patterns, motifs and symbolism.

2) Rain Johnson directed and wrote the shiat out of the movie, and it's cinematic gold. However a HORRIBLE Star Wars movie. You don't trash the heroes. You don't have them divorced with an evil son or a recluse hero that let the galaxy fall.

It's just Generation X and Y working out their "isn't this kewl and EXTREME" jerk off fantasy.

Mark Hammil knew this and rightfully objected. However, he's also a professional and contractually obligated and did a great job.

If Rain Johnson wanted to do his own Star Wars trilogy, with his own characters, then fine.

But Lucas had a successful formula that worked.

To be fair.... The divorced with evil son and recluse hero that let the galaxy fall was JJ's move, not Rian's.

True: But JJ was just as bad if not worse.

Abrams even admitted that Disney should have plotted the first three movies out.

When Lucas made Star Wars, he had somewhat of a backstory filled out. But Lucas seriously didn't think he was going to get to make more than one. So he put the cool stuff in, and made a self contained story.

Yes, he did make it up as he went along: due to real life changes and a desire to stop doing Star Wars and concentrate on his kids. But he had ideas that could be woven into the fabric of what was done. Not perfectly, mind you-but close enough to be plausible.


Disney should have had the broad strokes of the trilogy planned out before contacting Abrams, yes. They could have asked Feige on how to plot out a longer series while remaining flexable to inputs.
 
2022-06-08 9:27:11 PM  

Bootleg: born_yesterday: Chemlight Battery: Rev.K: [Fark user image image 850x218]

Well, you accurately predicted the bad new characters, but even with your extreme pessimism you still didn't foresee how bad they'd f*ck up the old ones.

What did Yoda and Ben do when i faltered in my Jedi training? Oh, that's right, they tried to kill me in my sleep.

Well, time to kill my nephew in his sleep. Hope my sister and best friend (also my brother in law) don't mind.

I... Disagree with that interpretation. I see it as Luke nearly falling to the dark-side (Again). He sees his troubled nephew, and get a glimpse of the future, the pain and suffering his nephew causes, all the death and destruction. In that moment, he could cut that future down, save endless lives with a single sacrifice... But he pulls back, because he realizes it'd be wrong and giving into the dark side of the force. Unfortunately, he pulls back after already pulling his sabre and once Ben wakes up, and the potential future he saw solidifies.


Which Luke would never do.
The problem is that the film expect us to believe that Luke fell from a great height and then did absolutely nothing about it. It requires Luke to actually act against his established character and make a fatal flaw. Because he saved his evil father who already slaughtered billions of people at Alderaan

In the Original Trilligy, Obi-Wan and Yoda were in hiding: it was cleared they fought and lost in the past. We know Vader was once a good guy turned bad. That as is a valid starting point.

The prequels showed us HOW they failed and HOW Anakin turned. Obi Wan and Yoda were deceived, blind but well meaning in their failure, However it takes three movies for these stories  turn to be complete.

Johnson also decided to do flashbacks, which Lucas would never do (Story goes forward) In the last film of the OT, the characters have won. They are happy. Luke's optimism had paid off. Suddenly Luke is mr cynical pessimistic bastard?

Complete and utter stupidity.

Also there were a few story elements that was crap. The never ending chase, where you can apparently sneak off to other planets. Poe just decided to commit mutiny for no good reason.  Captain Phasma is completely underused. Stupid Force seeing each-other and projection.

The sad part is I love Finn, Poe, Poe and Rose! I wish they would have just introduced the new threat, have the new heroes meet the old, then kill of the old timers to pass the torch.
 
2022-06-08 9:39:33 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Which Luke would never do.


He wouldn't? The man than tried to kill the Emperor to save his friends, nearly killed Darth Vader (Who he knew was his father) in a fit of rage, wouldn't be tempted to strike first?

Darth_Lukecash: The problem is that the film expect us to believe that Luke fell from a great height and then did absolutely nothing about it. It requires Luke to actually act against his established character and make a fatal flaw. Because he saved his evil father who already slaughtered billions of people at Alderaan


I thought "farking up horribly and becoming a hermit on some random planet" was the Jedi retirement plan. Because, as you point out, Obi-Wan and Yoda. You might argue that his descent should have been given more screen-time, but... At the end of TFA he's on Ahch-To. He's been there for years, per the plot. He doesn't seem to be in any particular distress, so why was he there?

Darth_Lukecash: Johnson also decided to do flashbacks, which Lucas would never do (Story goes forward) In the last film of the OT, the characters have won. They are happy. Luke's optimism had paid off. Suddenly Luke is mr cynical pessimistic bastard?


Because he farked up horribly?

Darth_Lukecash: Also there were a few story elements that was crap. The never ending chase, where you can apparently sneak off to other planets.


Agreed.

Darth_Lukecash: Poe just decided to commit mutiny for no good reason.


Agreed. (Although it feeds into his character of being "The Hotshot Pilot". Clearly, if someone's shutting him out they're up to no good).

Darth_Lukecash: Captain Phasma is completely underused.


Agreed.

Darth_Lukecash: Stupid Force seeing each-other and projection.


Disagree. Being able to see and talk to each other through the force makes sense (The whole passing matter not so much). The force connects all living things after all, and we've already been able to send basic communications through the force (Luke on Cloud City calling to Leia), so this is just a stronger version of that. Projection can be either a next level of that, or the stronger version to lots of people. Either way you want to justify it.
 
2022-06-08 9:46:57 PM  
If you like it, that's fine, but it's a far stretch from a "masterpiece".

Personally? I hate it. But that's the great thing about movies. I can wholly ignore the new Disney stuff I think is tripe and stick with the OT. You get to enjoy the new stuff, I get to enjoy the old and not give them any more money.
 
2022-06-08 9:51:36 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Which Luke would never do.
The problem is that the film expect us to believe that Luke fell from a great height and then did absolutely nothing about it. It requires Luke to actually act against his established character and make a fatal flaw. Because he saved his evil father who already slaughtered billions of people at Alderaan


The original trilogy shows Luke as a complex character who struggles with the darkness inside him.  That's sort of the entire point of his arc; that he's cast into an impossible situation, given very little guidance along the way, expectations piled on top of him, and he does his best to handle the load, and consistently fails to do so, often slipping towards the Dark Side in the process.  Luke's the one who first fires up his saber and is first to attack, indicating his aggression.  Their exchanges are increasingly marked by Luke's anger, fear, and frustration, because the whole time, Vader is still trying to recruit Luke, not kill him.  And almost breaks through, with the revelation that Vader is Luke's father.  Luke throws himself off to escape, since he has no other option.

Later, at the end of RotJ, in the final duels, Luke almost lets himself fall to the Dark Side twice, and you can't miss it, because Palpatine mocks him for it both times.  He keeps tapping into the Dark Side, and that's the only way he can best Vader, even if he pulls himself back from that brink.  In the end, Luke stands at that edge and steps back, and that's his final victory; not falling as his father once did.  But he was right on that edge, he always walked close to that line, throughout the trilogy.

Thinking Luke would never be tempted or feel such emotions ever again after that moment is . . . fantastically silly, frankly.  Him thinking he's got a handle on it would definitely lead to a slip like we saw in TLJ's flashback.  Especially since it's just a moment of fear, and he wasn't wrong about what he saw in Ben, either.

Heck, that's why he parked himself on an island next to a place strong with the Dark Side.  Luke's there as penance and to test himself, because he couldn't trust himself.

In the end, it's just a story that says happily ever afters are silly and not how life works. Luke is, in the end, human, and not a paragon of goodness.  Which he never was.  As far as I can see, the TLJ segment of Luke's story is perfectly in-character.
 
2022-06-08 9:56:43 PM  

Bootleg: Mugato: Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi is a miracle

It's a big "Fark you to JJ" and the next film was a big "Fark you to Rian". The whole thing was a big circle jerk.

THAT, I blame on Disney seemingly not having any damn plan for the trilogy. Either that, or just handing Rian a giant bag of money and then farking off for a year.

/I liked most of Rey/Luke's storyline in TLJ, and the tie-in of Ben's storyline
//Didn't really like Poe's.
///Or Rose/Finn's.


Yep there is a lot wrong with TLJ, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to the absolute dumbfarkery of RoS.

The idea the Jedi were just as wrong about the Force as the Sith, the new generation could be refuse to repeat the past, and they could be free to make their own choices would have been an amazing development for the IP. Especially since that idea makes the prequels better.
 
2022-06-09 12:41:24 AM  

Boudyro: The idea the Jedi were just as wrong about the Force as the Sith, the new generation could be refuse to repeat the past, and they could be free to make their own choices would have been an amazing development for the IP. Especially since that idea makes the prequels better.


Except that is the idea of the prequels. Johnson didn't suggest anything new, he just paraphrased Anakin's discussions with Palpatine and gave them to Luke. And despite Kylo talking about burning down the past, the movie rejects every opportunity to actually pick a fresh direction. After killing Snoke, Kylo could have teamed up with Rey and tried some unexpected fresh plan, but they go their separate ways and he's remains a stereotypical Imperial baddie and she's still the standard Jedi hero. Just like in ESB, the Rebels begin and end the story on the run, with no ideas for a different strategy. The movie even closes with Broom Boy holding his sweeper aloft in a lightsaber pose, not musing about the vague "exciting new direction" some fans seem to think TLJ was pointing at, but clearly daydreaming about being a typical Jedi.

From the sound of things, RoS didn't reverse any great ideas set in motion by TLJ. It just restored the parts of TFA that Johnson contemptuously threw out, like Kylo's mask and a big bad pulling all the strings. If Johnson had directed the third movie instead of Abrams, it probably wouldn't have been all that different, just talkier and lacking a real villain.
 
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