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(Patch)   Homework no longer counts toward a student's final grade? How long have I been in this crypt? Even factoring guns out, it's no wonder good teachers can't get away from schools fast enough   (patch.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Education, Teacher, Formative assessment, Homework help service, part of the students, high school teacher, way LT teachers, last evening  
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4175 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 May 2022 at 6:35 AM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-05-29 6:55:32 AM  
Homework is farking stupid.  Kids go to school 7 hours a day.  If you can't teach them in that amount of time what are you even doing?  I never did homework, literally ever, and graduated with a top SAT score in my class. In fact it just conditions kids to be cool with unpaid labor.  This asshole seems to be one of the farkers that assigns 1 hour of hw when these kids take 7 other classes.  English teachers are notorious for this crap.

The other three things on the list though?  Yeah what the fark?  You need to teach kids some sort of responsibility for things like due dates and failure.
 
2022-05-29 6:58:27 AM  
I Take Care Of Homework by Syl Johnson on Mono 1969 Twinight 45.
Youtube fRvFd7Ay_lo
 
2022-05-29 6:59:04 AM  
I avoided doing homework as much as possible. I'd like to say it was due to some kind of cause. No, I just didn't like doing it. Got me through high school and college so whatever.
 
2022-05-29 7:02:13 AM  
Homework is stupid.   Also, deadlines trigger anxiety.   Failing wrecks a students self-confidence.   Fact-based learning destroys a student's creativity and worldview.   Dammit people, our students are precious individuals whose opinions are far more inportant than any of that crap they teach in schools.
 
2022-05-29 7:05:59 AM  
I think with the world falling apart around them, the kids these days have more important things to worry about.

/Barely did homework
//Aced every test
///F*ck off, subby
 
2022-05-29 7:09:44 AM  
My physics class did things right back in the day. You only had homework if you didnt finish your classwork

Its just too bad 99% of teachers are stupid enough to think that homework is required because they are lazy
 
2022-05-29 7:10:29 AM  
Resigns three years before a full 20 year retirement because he can't grade homework, or because somebody found out he's been soliciting extra credit from his students?
 
2022-05-29 7:11:00 AM  
Other than large projects or book reports, I was never assigned homework. There are some shiatty schools and teachers out there, I guess.
 
2022-05-29 7:12:04 AM  

Stud Gerbil: Homework is stupid.   Also, deadlines trigger anxiety.   Failing wrecks a students self-confidence.   Fact-based learning destroys a student's creativity and worldview.   Dammit people, our students are precious individuals whose opinions are far more inportant than any of that crap they teach in schools.


Nice transition.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-29 7:12:52 AM  

Stud Gerbil: Homework is stupid.   Also, deadlines trigger anxiety.   Failing wrecks a students self-confidence.   Fact-based learning destroys a student's creativity and worldview.   Dammit people, our students are precious individuals whose opinions are far more inportant than any of that crap they teach in schools.


I know you're joking, but someone nonetheless smarted your comment. Let's hope he just failed to perceive the satire.
 
2022-05-29 7:13:19 AM  

DaMannimal: Homework is farking stupid.  Kids go to school 7 hours a day.  If you can't teach them in that amount of time what are you even doing?  I never did homework, literally ever, and graduated with a top SAT score in my class. In fact it just conditions kids to be cool with unpaid labor.  This asshole seems to be one of the farkers that assigns 1 hour of hw when these kids take 7 other classes.  English teachers are notorious for this crap.

The other three things on the list though?  Yeah what the fark?  You need to teach kids some sort of responsibility for things like due dates and failure.


They're not learning the same subject for seven hours a day, dimwit.
 
2022-05-29 7:13:58 AM  

thealgorerhythm: Resigns three years before a full 20 year retirement because he can't grade homework, or because somebody found out he's been soliciting extra credit from his students?


lol
 
2022-05-29 7:14:52 AM  
I can't believe that people still voluntarily teach in public schools...seems like something you'd do to satisfy a public service sentence.
 
2022-05-29 7:15:21 AM  
I was going to make a eloquently cogent statement in support of the writer of the letter (I am a teacher and a professor and have observed the same- and am retiring because of the same), but what's the point? Let your kids grow up ignorant and irresponsible, I'll fleece them and take advantage of them like the rest of the establishment plans to (I am a lawyer too).
 
2022-05-29 7:16:51 AM  
Study after study over decades in multiple country's have shown homework is actually dumb.
 
2022-05-29 7:18:08 AM  

FiloBato: Study after study over decades in multiple country's have shown homework is actually dumb.


(I am not a lawyer/teacher/halfling thief).
 
2022-05-29 7:19:54 AM  
In fifth grade I had a tag team of teachers (the large room was shaped like a V with two classes) that would assign us 50, 100 or 500--word paragraphs acknowledging the wrongness of what we'd done as discipline. I wrote a lot of them, and at some point, realized the teachers weren't actually reading our work because I'd been increasingly arguing the injustice of it all and insulting the teachers with my paragraphs--and without subsequent contradiction from them. If I had a school with a policy of not grading homework, I think I'd feel compelled to do something similar with the homework.
 
2022-05-29 7:19:58 AM  
I've known many parents over the years that treated homework as a virtue unto itself. Those parents tend to raise uncurious children who end up hating school.

Way back in grad school I asked my fellow grad students what their experiences were with doing homework. Most reported that they seldom had any. This fits my prejudice that it mostly burns kids out. I was curious at the time over a 1st grade teacher that wanted my kid to do over an hour of homework per night --- first grade!  She was so proud of what she was doing. I had to explain to her it just wasn't going to happen but that I did read to him about half an hour a night. I was unwilling to cut that out so he could fill out mindless worksheets.
 
2022-05-29 7:21:41 AM  

FiloBato: Study after study over decades in multiple country's have shown homework is actually dumb.


But on the other hand, people who do their homework typically know how to pluralize simple words.
 
2022-05-29 7:22:35 AM  

DaMannimal: Homework is farking stupid.  Kids go to school 7 hours a day.  If you can't teach them in that amount of time what are you even doing?


Depends on what they are learning, and how they feel about the subject, I guess.

I didn't do much homework for most of my classes in either college or secondary school. I can draw a couple of conclusions from how that worked out.

Some subjects require more drilling than class time allows. Math and learning languages, for example.

I did a lotof out of class practice in my language of choice, even beyond what was assigned as homework. As a result, I came out of the program able to hold a pretty decent general conversation in that language. Not fluent, of course; that only comes with practical use. But I could understand and be understood. My peers who did not do that work came out, well, sounding like Americans. Able to ask how to get to McDonalds, but probably not able to understand the reply. There's no way in hell you could with a few hours of class time per week and nothing else.

Conversely, I came out of my education having spent a few hours of class time per week and very little more on math. And, shocker, I was able to do math like an American, as well. That is, poorly. Life experience made me better at it over time. I bet I would destroy Calculus class now rather than barely scraping by.

I think homework has a lot of value if you're actually interested in learning a subject.
 
2022-05-29 7:27:04 AM  
Until our educational system advances beyond memorization and into one of conceptual understanding/cognitive reasoning/applying knowledge we still fail.

What good does learning about Hitler and the dates of different events leading up to WW2 do if people are unable to recognize when the same mannerisms and manipulation techniques are being used again, only on them.
 
2022-05-29 7:27:25 AM  

qorkfiend: FiloBato: Study after study over decades in multiple country's have shown homework is actually dumb.

But on the other hand, people who do their homework typically know how to pluralize simple words.


Homework are actually dumb
 
2022-05-29 7:28:41 AM  

Andric: DaMannimal: Homework is farking stupid.  Kids go to school 7 hours a day.  If you can't teach them in that amount of time what are you even doing?

Depends on what they are learning, and how they feel about the subject, I guess.

I didn't do much homework for most of my classes in either college or secondary school. I can draw a couple of conclusions from how that worked out.

Some subjects require more drilling than class time allows. Math and learning languages, for example.

I did a lotof out of class practice in my language of choice, even beyond what was assigned as homework. As a result, I came out of the program able to hold a pretty decent general conversation in that language. Not fluent, of course; that only comes with practical use. But I could understand and be understood. My peers who did not do that work came out, well, sounding like Americans. Able to ask how to get to McDonalds, but probably not able to understand the reply. There's no way in hell you could with a few hours of class time per week and nothing else.

Conversely, I came out of my education having spent a few hours of class time per week and very little more on math. And, shocker, I was able to do math like an American, as well. That is, poorly. Life experience made me better at it over time. I bet I would destroy Calculus class now rather than barely scraping by.

I think homework has a lot of value if you're actually interested in learning a subject.


Homework is just one tool amongst many: applied judiciously by a skilled artisan, it can create works of great beauty, while in the hands of the less-talented or just plain careless, it can become useless or even destructive.
 
2022-05-29 7:38:56 AM  
I see we've got the "I never did homework, aced every test, AND banged the prom queen" well-covered.
 
2022-05-29 7:40:28 AM  
There are a.lot of very well adjusted people in this thread
 
2022-05-29 7:41:10 AM  

Sachlpch: Until our educational system advances beyond memorization and into one of conceptual understanding/cognitive reasoning/applying knowledge we still fail.

What good does learning about Hitler and the dates of different events leading up to WW2 do if people are unable to recognize when the same mannerisms and manipulation techniques are being used again, only on them.


Elementary school is a bit early for FarkPol.
 
2022-05-29 7:42:19 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

Don't need as much homework if kids spend an extra 20+ days in school per year.

But homework is also good, it prepares you for college and life. Some things you have to figure out yourself (including how to creatively copy somebody's homework so it looks like yours). Those skills last a lifetime.
 
2022-05-29 7:42:50 AM  
The homework stuff doesn't bother me as much as the lowered academic standards and relaxed deadlines. Few jobs reward laziness and a D- effort these kids are being setup for failure.
 
2022-05-29 7:43:24 AM  

Concrete Donkey: My physics class did things right back in the day. You only had homework if you didnt finish your classwork

Its just too bad 99% of teachers are stupid enough to think that homework is required because they are lazy


I had a math teacher (Mr. Gillian, Oxon Hill High School) who had you turn in your homework on the day of the test.

If you got an A or B on the test, it was an automatic 100% for homework, as you obviously did enough to do well enough on the test.

If you didn't, he counted how many problems you completed.  Didn't even care what you answer was, but that you tried to do the work, and gave you a grade based on that.

I don't know how long he had been doing it.  I suspect it was because of the 'work to the rule' thing that the teachers union were doing after years of not getting pay raises.   They would no longer grade homework after school.  And due to other privacy rules that had been implemented, they couldn't do the 'swap papers with the kid next to you and grade each other's classwork/homework'

/tried to help my girlfriend senior year get caught up in homework for his class
//she was pissed because I guided her, but wouldn't do the homework for her
///she forgot and left it all at home on the day of the final
 
2022-05-29 7:44:01 AM  
In middle school math classes my kids are doing well, though they focus mainly on in class work. Homework is minimal and not counted, though we have worked to instill a necessity for its completion. I do a lot of grading for my own job at home, so that also reinforces that culture. But I can understand why it would not work well for many.
 
2022-05-29 7:44:07 AM  

thealgorerhythm: [Fark user image image 425x394]
Don't need as much homework if kids spend an extra 20+ days in school per year.

But homework is also good, it prepares you for college and life. Some things you have to figure out yourself (including how to creatively copy somebody's homework so it looks like yours). Those skills last a lifetime.


Holy sh*t, when did Ontario declare independence? Québec's gonna be pissed that a bunch of Anglos beat 'em to it.
 
2022-05-29 7:45:09 AM  

aagrajag: thealgorerhythm: [Fark user image image 425x394]
Don't need as much homework if kids spend an extra 20+ days in school per year.

But homework is also good, it prepares you for college and life. Some things you have to figure out yourself (including how to creatively copy somebody's homework so it looks like yours). Those skills last a lifetime.

Holy sh*t, when did Ontario declare independence? Québec's gonna be pissed that a bunch of Anglos beat 'em to it.


After they sent the truckers back they initiated their launch sequence
 
2022-05-29 7:45:58 AM  

Stud Gerbil: Homework is stupid.   Also, deadlines trigger anxiety.   Failing wrecks a students self-confidence.   Fact-based learning destroys a student's creativity and worldview.   Dammit people, our students are precious individuals whose opinions are far more inportant than any of that crap they teach in schools.


I failed all my classes in dark sarcasms. It's all Pink Floyd up in here.

High school English courses are typically "flipped" because a factory model is applied by these ages and both the teacher and student are overworked-- the ratio can be over 30 to 1 per 50 minute period, 4 and 5 cohorts per day to cover a survey of literature a committee has assigned out of their butts.

Education on the whole has come to reject the time it takes to learn and grade writing beyond Jr. High because the "profit" of it can't accommodate population growth-- testing companies (some of the shrewdest entities to have ever been invented) have applied algorithmic approaches since their beginning to eventually just abandon the "essay".

My personal opinion of homework is that it is abused by poor teachers, but this teacher's complaint is more along the lines of an admin further asserting control of what choices a teacher has (deadlines and metrics) after having long ago controlled what material will be covered by calendar time.

Teachers have been warning parents about the end of education for a while now-- the taxes at stake are some of the largest levied-- and the devil in the details is the same as health care: Profits are the agenda.

I know this-- every school admin in the nation could be fired and teachers would find a way to serve their students because it's a professional pride, but admins? What are they? Another management class working with fictions.
 
2022-05-29 7:49:47 AM  
Homework is open farking book, and it's the only thing that passes some kids.
 
2022-05-29 7:51:20 AM  

Oneiros: Concrete Donkey: My physics class did things right back in the day. You only had homework if you didnt finish your classwork

Its just too bad 99% of teachers are stupid enough to think that homework is required because they are lazy

I had a math teacher (Mr. Gillian, Oxon Hill High School) who had you turn in your homework on the day of the test.

If you got an A or B on the test, it was an automatic 100% for homework, as you obviously did enough to do well enough on the test.

If you didn't, he counted how many problems you completed.  Didn't even care what you answer was, but that you tried to do the work, and gave you a grade based on that.

I don't know how long he had been doing it.  I suspect it was because of the 'work to the rule' thing that the teachers union were doing after years of not getting pay raises.   They would no longer grade homework after school.  And due to other privacy rules that had been implemented, they couldn't do the 'swap papers with the kid next to you and grade each other's classwork/homework'

/tried to help my girlfriend senior year get caught up in homework for his class
//she was pissed because I guided her, but wouldn't do the homework for her
///she forgot and left it all at home on the day of the final


But that brings up point number two: tests are the most worthless invention in the history of education, and they have NO real world equivalent anywhere, ever. There is not one part in your professional life where you will have to figure things out and actively be denied access to the information to figure it out with. All a test does is waste everyones time, induce stress and anxiety and give teachers a massive power trip.

The only proper way education should be done is to spend a day or two introducing each concept, then (this is the part that im convinced teachers would rather kill themselves than do) use REAL WORLD EXAMPLES of it for the rest of the week to reinforce the initial teaching and show kids how it applies to their future
 
2022-05-29 7:57:58 AM  

GoldSpider: I see we've got the "I never did homework, aced every test, AND banged the prom queen" well-covered.


Yeah, we're all ten-inch-dicked polymaths in here.

I never f*cked the prom queen since I dropped out of high school in grade nine, but I was banging the proverbial big-tiddie goth GF, so I got that going for me. I also somehow ended up as an academic anyway.

So it goes.
 
2022-05-29 7:59:57 AM  
Things about education that no one believes, but are actually true:

Homework does nothing to help kids learn.
Small class sizes (15 students vs. 30) have no impact on learning.
Recess improves learning.
There's no such thing as learning styles.
Too much praise is bad.
Fun and engaging are not the same thing.
Letter grades are pointless.
The difference between public and private schools is due to the family setting.
 
2022-05-29 8:01:44 AM  

AngryTeacher: Things about education that no one believes, but are actually true:

Homework does nothing to help kids learn.
Small class sizes (15 students vs. 30) have no impact on learning.
Recess improves learning.
There's no such thing as learning styles.
Too much praise is bad.
Fun and engaging are not the same thing.
Letter grades are pointless.
The difference between public and private schools is due to the family setting.


9) Kids are really stupid and annoying.
 
2022-05-29 8:02:16 AM  

aagrajag: Homework is just one tool amongst many: applied judiciously by a skilled artisan, it can create works of great beauty, while in the hands of the less-talented or just plain careless, it can become useless or even destructive.


So much this.

Homework is practice. I think it is necessary, but applied judiciously
 
2022-05-29 8:04:01 AM  

BrerRobot: Homework is open farking book, and it's the only thing that passes some kids.


As a child I  tested poorly due to anxiety, so my homework often carried my grade.
 
2022-05-29 8:04:35 AM  

Concrete Donkey: Oneiros: Concrete Donkey: My physics class did things right back in the day. You only had homework if you didnt finish your classwork

Its just too bad 99% of teachers are stupid enough to think that homework is required because they are lazy

I had a math teacher (Mr. Gillian, Oxon Hill High School) who had you turn in your homework on the day of the test.

If you got an A or B on the test, it was an automatic 100% for homework, as you obviously did enough to do well enough on the test.

If you didn't, he counted how many problems you completed.  Didn't even care what you answer was, but that you tried to do the work, and gave you a grade based on that.

I don't know how long he had been doing it.  I suspect it was because of the 'work to the rule' thing that the teachers union were doing after years of not getting pay raises.   They would no longer grade homework after school.  And due to other privacy rules that had been implemented, they couldn't do the 'swap papers with the kid next to you and grade each other's classwork/homework'

/tried to help my girlfriend senior year get caught up in homework for his class
//she was pissed because I guided her, but wouldn't do the homework for her
///she forgot and left it all at home on the day of the final

But that brings up point number two: tests are the most worthless invention in the history of education, and they have NO real world equivalent anywhere, ever. There is not one part in your professional life where you will have to figure things out and actively be denied access to the information to figure it out with. All a test does is waste everyones time, induce stress and anxiety and give teachers a massive power trip.

The only proper way education should be done is to spend a day or two introducing each concept, then (this is the part that im convinced teachers would rather kill themselves than do) use REAL WORLD EXAMPLES of it for the rest of the week to reinforce the initial teaching and show kids how it applies to their future


Is this satire?
 
2022-05-29 8:07:54 AM  

Space Station Wagon: BrerRobot: Homework is open farking book, and it's the only thing that passes some kids.

As a child I  tested poorly due to anxiety, so my homework often carried my grade.


Heh, I still get nervous during tests (I recently sat for a very difficult orthography certification) and make embarrassing mistakes as a result. My solution was to ensure that I knew the material so damn well that even those foolish errors could not stop me from passing.
 
2022-05-29 8:10:11 AM  

Concrete Donkey: Oneiros: Concrete Donkey: My physics class did things right back in the day. You only had homework if you didnt finish your classwork

Its just too bad 99% of teachers are stupid enough to think that homework is required because they are lazy

I had a math teacher (Mr. Gillian, Oxon Hill High School) who had you turn in your homework on the day of the test.

If you got an A or B on the test, it was an automatic 100% for homework, as you obviously did enough to do well enough on the test.

If you didn't, he counted how many problems you completed.  Didn't even care what you answer was, but that you tried to do the work, and gave you a grade based on that.

I don't know how long he had been doing it.  I suspect it was because of the 'work to the rule' thing that the teachers union were doing after years of not getting pay raises.   They would no longer grade homework after school.  And due to other privacy rules that had been implemented, they couldn't do the 'swap papers with the kid next to you and grade each other's classwork/homework'

/tried to help my girlfriend senior year get caught up in homework for his class
//she was pissed because I guided her, but wouldn't do the homework for her
///she forgot and left it all at home on the day of the final

But that brings up point number two: tests are the most worthless invention in the history of education, and they have NO real world equivalent anywhere, ever. There is not one part in your professional life where you will have to figure things out and actively be denied access to the information to figure it out with. All a test does is waste everyones time, induce stress and anxiety and give teachers a massive power trip.

The only proper way education should be done is to spend a day or two introducing each concept, then (this is the part that im convinced teachers would rather kill themselves than do) use REAL WORLD EXAMPLES of it for the rest of the week to reinforce the initial teaching and show kids how it app ...


How do you make sure a student has learned the material?
 
2022-05-29 8:11:17 AM  
From what I've seen in this thread it's pretty clear why public education in the US is so consistently considered the best in the world.
 
2022-05-29 8:11:33 AM  

RTOGUY: The homework stuff doesn't bother me as much as the lowered academic standards and relaxed deadlines. Few jobs reward laziness and a D- effort these kids are being setup for failure.


Lyons Township is located in one of the wealthier suburbs of Chicago.

Something tells me these kids will only fail upward.
 
2022-05-29 8:13:10 AM  
I haven't taught since Covid, and I only ever taught college, so I'm not great at the K-12 experience. But at the tail end of the decade and change that I taught, I was pretty depressed about standards.

My bread and butter was freshman comp: "Welcome to college, here's how to write stuff." It's designed to be one of the easiest classes first-year students can take - it's not like O-Chem or Diff-Eq, that weeds the weak out from the herd, it's supposed to be the thing that prepares you to take every other class at the university level. It had, just, so many forgiveness policies built into it. The only regular "homework" was keeping up with reading whatever books I'd picked for the semester, and we ran over them in class anyway. Revisions of bad work were allowed. As long as you (a) showed up and (b) turned something in, you could probably pass the course. The "something" you turned in could be a single sentence that you later revised into a paper. That's what my office hours were for.

I was still failing students, because they weren't able or willing to meet the standards of "show up" and "turn something in."
 
2022-05-29 8:13:49 AM  
Maybe we should let teachers figure out what works for them and their students and support them doing that. The best teachers I had definitely operated mostly outside of any top down guidance. One great teacher helps a kid more than a dozen mediocre guidance followers.

Seriously, think about how much you would suck at your job if you were as micromanaged as some teachers.
 
2022-05-29 8:14:42 AM  

gonegirl: I haven't taught since Covid, and I only ever taught college, so I'm not great at the K-12 experience. But at the tail end of the decade and change that I taught, I was pretty depressed about standards.

My bread and butter was freshman comp: "Welcome to college, here's how to write stuff." It's designed to be one of the easiest classes first-year students can take - it's not like O-Chem or Diff-Eq, that weeds the weak out from the herd, it's supposed to be the thing that prepares you to take every other class at the university level. It had, just, so many forgiveness policies built into it. The only regular "homework" was keeping up with reading whatever books I'd picked for the semester, and we ran over them in class anyway. Revisions of bad work were allowed. As long as you (a) showed up and (b) turned something in, you could probably pass the course. The "something" you turned in could be a single sentence that you later revised into a paper. That's what my office hours were for.

I was still failing students, because they weren't able or willing to meet the standards of "show up" and "turn something in."


Don't feel bad. They probably filed for an anxiety exemption and got passed through anyway.
 
2022-05-29 8:14:45 AM  
70% of the people who file a complaint against my company obviously failed to read the fine print.

Our country is already a nation of dumbasses.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-29 8:16:07 AM  

gonegirl: I haven't taught since Covid, and I only ever taught college, so I'm not great at the K-12 experience. But at the tail end of the decade and change that I taught, I was pretty depressed about standards.

My bread and butter was freshman comp: "Welcome to college, here's how to write stuff." It's designed to be one of the easiest classes first-year students can take - it's not like O-Chem or Diff-Eq, that weeds the weak out from the herd, it's supposed to be the thing that prepares you to take every other class at the university level. It had, just, so many forgiveness policies built into it. The only regular "homework" was keeping up with reading whatever books I'd picked for the semester, and we ran over them in class anyway. Revisions of bad work were allowed. As long as you (a) showed up and (b) turned something in, you could probably pass the course. The "something" you turned in could be a single sentence that you later revised into a paper. That's what my office hours were for.

I was still failing students, because they weren't able or willing to meet the standards of "show up" and "turn something in."


And how many of those pending failures nonetheless showed up in your office demanding still another chance to pass?
 
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