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(Conde Nast Traveler)   Obvious: flying coach sucks. We'll See About That: two airlines want to make it better   (cntraveler.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Southwest Airlines, Airline, Delta Air Lines, new narrow-body planes, Boeing 737, Lufthansa, largest airlines, Aircraft  
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1356 clicks; posted to Business » on 28 May 2022 at 3:02 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-05-28 11:55:09 AM  
Notice that none of their "improvements" involve providing enough seating space to fit a human being into.

(just did a five hour economy flight on United. Still bruised, three days later.)
 
2022-05-28 12:04:08 PM  
United has rolled out new cabins on some of their CRJ-500's, which notably include actual luggage cabinets between 1st and economy that will hold full size roll-aboard bags.  Being able to avoid ramp checking bags on those planes is a game changer.
 
2022-05-28 12:16:59 PM  
Bullsh*t. I'll believe that when I see it.
 
2022-05-28 12:23:29 PM  
The overhead bins will happen because it directly benefits the airlines.

And sure they'll probably throw in more power points at seats because why not.

The rest though, we'll see
 
2022-05-28 12:29:01 PM  
Sooo....they're going to be JetBlue?
 
2022-05-28 12:45:12 PM  
I really need to pull back on the gay porn. Because I had different imagery when I read that headline.
 
2022-05-28 12:52:20 PM  

bloobeary: Notice that none of their "improvements" involve providing enough seating space to fit a human being into.

(just did a five hour economy flight on United. Still bruised, three days later.)


Amen.  Give us back three inches and we'll be a hell of a lot more comfortable.
 
2022-05-28 1:46:44 PM  
Will they sedate, for the duration of the flight, the kids sitting behind me kicking my seat.
 
2022-05-28 1:50:42 PM  
Consumers have shown time and time again that -- despite what they may say -- when it comes to purchasing economy tickets, they will almost always choose the cheapest flight possible.

So, my question: Will these improvements lead to increases in ticket prices? If so, it might not work out the way that the airlines are hoping.
 
2022-05-28 1:52:03 PM  

bostonguy: Consumers have shown time and time again that -- despite what they may say -- when it comes to purchasing economy tickets, they will almost always choose the cheapest flight possible.

So, my question: Will these improvements lead to increases in ticket prices? If so, it might not work out the way that the airlines are hoping.


Oh, an old joke from an MBA professor.

"What's the quickest way to lose money?"

"Run an airline."

/ and I'm watching an episode a night of "Wings" because I have never seen it
 
2022-05-28 3:08:35 PM  

BizarreMan: bloobeary: Notice that none of their "improvements" involve providing enough seating space to fit a human being into.

(just did a five hour economy flight on United. Still bruised, three days later.)

Amen.  Give us back three inches and we'll be a hell of a lot more comfortable.


Why would they when you'll just book with a smaller-seat competitor because it's $27 cheaper, and then complain about that?
 
2022-05-28 3:23:57 PM  
How does one get the Spiffy tag mixed up with Unlikely?
 
2022-05-28 3:28:02 PM  
Meanwhile at Spirit Airlines
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-28 3:34:42 PM  
The typical 737-800 in Delta's fleet has about 20 rows in cattle class, excluding premium economy.
Just remove one row and redistribute the space to the remaining rows. Increase fare price by 5 percent to make it up, which should translate into 2-3 percent in the full price because the airport tax doesn't change.
 
2022-05-28 3:43:26 PM  
It's time for gov't regulation of seat spacing. You can barely get into your seat these days, much less get out in an emergency.

Book ahead, price shop (airline loyalty does NOT pay), and you can get F tickets relatively cheap.
 
2022-05-28 4:00:32 PM  

bloobeary: Notice that none of their "improvements" involve providing enough seating space to fit a human being into.

(just did a five hour economy flight on United. Still bruised, three days later.)


They could always ad some padding to the seats...that might help
 
2022-05-28 4:26:31 PM  

optikeye: I really need to pull back on the gay porn. Because I had different imagery when I read that headline.

In my case I saw the headline at the bottom of the page I was on. The "Sports" and "Business" tab headlines are adjacent, and I misread this as being in Sports instead of Business, so I was wondering what a "flying coach" was.
 
2022-05-28 4:30:51 PM  
But it costs ten dollars more.  No thanks.
 
2022-05-28 4:33:48 PM  
Coach is the new Steerage
 
2022-05-28 4:42:17 PM  

neaorin: The typical 737-800 in Delta's fleet has about 20 rows in cattle class, excluding premium economy.
Just remove one row and redistribute the space to the remaining rows. Increase fare price by 5 percent to make it up, which should translate into 2-3 percent in the full price because the airport tax doesn't change.


They don't need to increase fare price. Just eat the cost for f*cking once.
 
2022-05-28 4:42:39 PM  

fastfxr: It's time for gov't regulation of seat spacing. You can barely get into your seat these days, much less get out in an emergency.

Book ahead, price shop (airline loyalty does NOT pay), and you can get F tickets relatively cheap.


It's time to nationalize air travel.
 
2022-05-28 4:45:01 PM  

bloobeary: Notice that none of their "improvements" involve providing enough seating space to fit a human being into.

(just did a five hour economy flight on United. Still bruised, three days later.)


Social Justice Warlock: Meanwhile at Spirit Airlines
[Fark user image 425x425]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-28 4:45:55 PM  

austerity101: It's time to nationalize air travel.


That's an interesting point -- most national airlines operate at huge losses.

But the larger question: Where is the dividing line between a public good and an optional commodity or luxury?

We might say that electricity and water are public goods. But where does it end? Food? Internet access? Air travel? Blackjack and hookers?
 
2022-05-28 4:51:51 PM  

bostonguy: austerity101: It's time to nationalize air travel.

That's an interesting point -- most national airlines operate at huge losses.

But the larger question: Where is the dividing line between a public good and an optional commodity or luxury?

We might say that electricity and water are public goods. But where does it end? Food? Internet access? Air travel? Blackjack and hookers?


Why yes. Libertarianism is all fine and well until the roads need mowing. 
WHERE DOES IT END?
 
2022-05-28 4:51:55 PM  

bostonguy: austerity101: It's time to nationalize air travel.

That's an interesting point -- most national airlines operate at huge losses.

But the larger question: Where is the dividing line between a public good and an optional commodity or luxury?

We might say that electricity and water are public goods. But where does it end? Food? Internet access? Air travel? Blackjack and hookers?


Government isn't supposed to turn a profit, it's supposed to take care of everything that doesn't turn a profit.
 
2022-05-28 4:58:23 PM  
Yeah, until I hit the lottery and can afford first class' hellacious premiums, I pretty much expect air travel to be miserable, at least with US lines. Even the cheapest foreign airlines tend to be a better experience than anything based in the US.

/ 6'3" and cranky.
// been on a lot of transcontinental flights.
 
2022-05-28 4:59:18 PM  

austerity101: neaorin: The typical 737-800 in Delta's fleet has about 20 rows in cattle class, excluding premium economy.
Just remove one row and redistribute the space to the remaining rows. Increase fare price by 5 percent to make it up, which should translate into 2-3 percent in the full price because the airport tax doesn't change.

They don't need to increase fare price. Just eat the cost for f*cking once.


Airlines have low single digits net margins in a good year.
 
2022-05-28 5:02:07 PM  
^F pitch = 0 results
^F width = no results

Same shiatty seats, I presume?
 
2022-05-28 5:05:06 PM  

neaorin: austerity101: neaorin: The typical 737-800 in Delta's fleet has about 20 rows in cattle class, excluding premium economy.
Just remove one row and redistribute the space to the remaining rows. Increase fare price by 5 percent to make it up, which should translate into 2-3 percent in the full price because the airport tax doesn't change.

They don't need to increase fare price. Just eat the cost for f*cking once.

Airlines have low single digits net margins in a good year.


My heart just aches for them.
 
2022-05-28 5:07:52 PM  

bostonguy: Oh, an old joke from an MBA professor.

"What's the quickest way to lose money?"

"Run an airline."

/ and I'm watching an episode a night of "Wings" because I have never seen it


It was, "What's the best way to become a millionaire in the airline business?  Start out as a billionaire."
 
2022-05-28 5:08:01 PM  

centrifugal bumblepuppy: ^F pitch = 0 results
^F width = no results

Same shiatty seats, I presume?


Rest assured, they do care about their sales pitch and profit margin width.
 
2022-05-28 5:08:38 PM  

austerity101: neaorin: austerity101: neaorin: The typical 737-800 in Delta's fleet has about 20 rows in cattle class, excluding premium economy.
Just remove one row and redistribute the space to the remaining rows. Increase fare price by 5 percent to make it up, which should translate into 2-3 percent in the full price because the airport tax doesn't change.

They don't need to increase fare price. Just eat the cost for f*cking once.

Airlines have low single digits net margins in a good year.

My heart just aches for them.


The point is it doesn't take much lost revenue to put them in the red. And this is a capital intensive business, where you can't spend too much time in the red before needing a bailout.
 
2022-05-28 5:09:21 PM  

neaorin: austerity101: neaorin: austerity101: neaorin: The typical 737-800 in Delta's fleet has about 20 rows in cattle class, excluding premium economy.
Just remove one row and redistribute the space to the remaining rows. Increase fare price by 5 percent to make it up, which should translate into 2-3 percent in the full price because the airport tax doesn't change.

They don't need to increase fare price. Just eat the cost for f*cking once.

Airlines have low single digits net margins in a good year.

My heart just aches for them.

The point is it doesn't take much lost revenue to put them in the red. And this is a capital intensive business, where you can't spend too much time in the red before needing a bailout.


Wow, that sounds so hard for them.
 
2022-05-28 5:11:53 PM  

neaorin: austerity101: neaorin: The typical 737-800 in Delta's fleet has about 20 rows in cattle class, excluding premium economy.
Just remove one row and redistribute the space to the remaining rows. Increase fare price by 5 percent to make it up, which should translate into 2-3 percent in the full price because the airport tax doesn't change.

They don't need to increase fare price. Just eat the cost for f*cking once.

Airlines have low single digits net margins in a good year.


And there is the bit about having a very low accident rate, and a very high maintenance standard. I just wish flying with US carriers wasn't such a sucky experience.
 
2022-05-28 5:31:32 PM  

austerity101: neaorin: austerity101: neaorin: The typical 737-800 in Delta's fleet has about 20 rows in cattle class, excluding premium economy.
Just remove one row and redistribute the space to the remaining rows. Increase fare price by 5 percent to make it up, which should translate into 2-3 percent in the full price because the airport tax doesn't change.

They don't need to increase fare price. Just eat the cost for f*cking once.

Airlines have low single digits net margins in a good year.

My heart just aches for them.


And of course in return the airlines heart aches for you. If you don't want to support them and only want the cheapest ticket possible, why should they care about you?
 
2022-05-28 5:34:31 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


The eternal battle between First Class and Coach.
 
2022-05-28 5:35:06 PM  

bostonguy: bostonguy: Consumers have shown time and time again that -- despite what they may say -- when it comes to purchasing economy tickets, they will almost always choose the cheapest flight possible.

So, my question: Will these improvements lead to increases in ticket prices? If so, it might not work out the way that the airlines are hoping.

Oh, an old joke from an MBA professor.

"What's the quickest way to lose money?"

"Run an airline."

/ and I'm watching an episode a night of "Wings" because I have never seen it


One can watch Tony Shaloub get better at his craft with each episode. And I was still taken aback by just how good he was when Monk came out.
 
2022-05-28 5:36:12 PM  
I once flew on Kingfisher Airlines, and I swear if you threw in a few floofy cats and a couple of jerks talking politics it could have been Fark Airlines.

It was a vanity project of a brewer billionaire, and had really good food served by hot babes AND ALL THE FREE BEER YOU COULD DRINK!

Sadly, mine was only a one hour flight, and I can only drink so fast.

Funniest  (?) part was the pre-flight video. Amongst the safety notices, the owner would come in to talk about their lovely stewardesses... You could almost hear the pervy "heh heh heh" going on. :| You know damn well there was a casting couch.
 
2022-05-28 5:50:57 PM  
It's been tried before. It all sounds great until you are planning your trip and you remember that you don't actually care about the plane and in X hours you will be in $amazingPlace and book the cheapest flight you can.
 
2022-05-28 6:06:22 PM  
Isn't it the Flying Coach's job to relax the team on long airplane rides? How she does it is her own business.
 
2022-05-28 6:08:38 PM  

maxheck: I once flew on Kingfisher Airlines, and I swear if you threw in a few floofy cats and a couple of jerks talking politics it could have been Fark Airlines.

It was a vanity project of a brewer billionaire, and had really good food served by hot babes AND ALL THE FREE BEER YOU COULD DRINK!

Sadly, mine was only a one hour flight, and I can only drink so fast.

Funniest  (?) part was the pre-flight video. Amongst the safety notices, the owner would come in to talk about their lovely stewardesses... You could almost hear the pervy "heh heh heh" going on. :| You know damn well there was a casting couch.


This guy?

4.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size


I am somehow not surprised.

I looked him up - basically, the Indian version of Donald Trump, except that it took him more than 3 years to run his airline into bankruptcy.
 
2022-05-28 6:16:52 PM  
Both Southwest and United are executing multi-year road maps that will
- expand their fleets:
this does not improve the individual's flying experience
- larger overhead bins: counterproductive, check that over-sized shiat.
- more in-seat power outlets:whoop-dee-farkin'-doo
- faster Wi-Fi: see above.
- better in-flight cocktails: cunning-plan-not-thought-through.
If a bar or server can be held liable for damages caused by one of their patrons, drunken passengers get a pass for popping the attended who liquored them up.  Other passengers harmed or inconvenienced receive compensation for both.

As stated earlier; just give me more room.  Everything mentioned is turd polish.
 
2022-05-28 6:22:52 PM  

Odd Bird: If a bar or server can be held liable for damages caused by one of their patrons, drunken passengers get a pass for popping the attended who liquored them up.  Other passengers harmed or inconvenienced receiv


So, how long have your been a member of AA?
 
2022-05-28 7:35:11 PM  
No extra leg room? STFU&GTFO
 
2022-05-28 8:15:19 PM  
A. Your target is Hawaiian Air level of comfort. Best flying experience in my life. Great food as well.
B. I will never fly on United again. Any where, any time.
C. Haven't flown on Southwest in decades, but it was okay in the 80s.
 
2022-05-28 8:40:59 PM  

natazha: A. Your target is Hawaiian Air level of comfort. Best flying experience in my life. Great food as well.


On our United flight, our food choices were crackers and water. That is not an attempt to be sarcastic.

They decided to wait until we were on the plane to tell us that while they did have food and beverages that you could buy, they no longer accepted cash or credit cards. You had to have an account on their f*cking phone app, with your credit info already entered from when you signed up for an account, And you couldn't download the app while on the plane. 

So saltines and water are all they offer. Enjoy.
 
2022-05-28 8:50:07 PM  

bostonguy: Consumers have shown time and time again that -- despite what they may say -- when it comes to purchasing economy tickets, they will almost always choose the cheapest flight possible.

So, my question: Will these improvements lead to increases in ticket prices? If so, it might not work out the way that the airlines are hoping.


If airlines wanted to make flying coach better, they'd lobby for a federal minimum seat distance that people actually liked.  The sardine airlines wouldn't be able to undercut them on price by packing more people in a plane.
 
2022-05-28 8:50:46 PM  
I vote they skip every bit of that shiat and give people more room.
 
2022-05-28 8:53:40 PM  
Bring something you like. Unless it's a really long flight who cares about the food? I can bring a sandwich I actually like. If it's not six hours or more I can just not eat. Lose the galley on planes and give the room to the people.
 
2022-05-28 8:59:37 PM  

bostonguy: austerity101: It's time to nationalize air travel.

That's an interesting point -- most national airlines operate at huge losses.

But the larger question: Where is the dividing line between a public good and an optional commodity or luxury?

We might say that electricity and water are public goods. But where does it end? Food? Internet access? Air travel? Blackjack and hookers?


Passenger airlines are obviously luxuries. Freight airlines are obviously necessities. I'm not sure why you offer the question.
 
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