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(NBC News)   Starbucks brings Black Mirror episode to real life, where baristas' working hours & income now depends on a "connection score" rating them on how customers feel about literally anything out of their control   (nbcnews.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Customer, Customer service, Trade union, connection scores, customer service, Laborer, Scores, Starbucks  
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880 clicks; posted to Business » on 28 May 2022 at 12:38 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-05-28 9:03:56 AM  
Welcome to healthcare.
 
2022-05-28 11:07:11 AM  
"People come to Starbucks for the experience."

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-28 11:08:30 AM  
It was easier back in the day when all you had to do was wear flair
 
2022-05-28 11:13:14 AM  
If I get to choose my experience, can I just skip to the part where I walk out with a cup of stale coffee?
 
2022-05-28 11:13:17 AM  

IgG4: It was easier back in the day when all you had to do was wear flair


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-28 11:19:04 AM  
...but they won't step foot in a McDonalds
 
2022-05-28 12:17:26 PM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size

They brew their coffee with real MeowMeowBeenz.
 
2022-05-28 1:10:44 PM  
On the "Jumped the Shark" timeline, Starbucks is somewhere around late night reruns of Joanie Loves Chachi.
 
2022-05-28 1:14:31 PM  
Welp, good luck if you're not an attactive white girl. But no, of course not, there's no way that the people in the US would subject baristas to the same types of general profiling biases they demonstrate every other farking day of the year.
 
2022-05-28 1:16:16 PM  
"Customer feedback is notoriously unreliable and discriminatory, particularly against women and people of color," said Dallan Flake, a law professor at Ohio Northern University who has written about customer reviews. "Despite this, businesses are relying on it more and more in making employment-related decisions, such as promotion, termination and pay rates."

Oh I see this was already covered in the article. Carry on then.
 
2022-05-28 1:50:38 PM  
'Murica.
 
2022-05-28 2:00:55 PM  

bdub77: But no, of course not, there's no way that the people in the US would subject baristas to the same types of general profiling biases they demonstrate every other farking day of the year.


"Oh, no, we're not profiling, the proprietary expert model with no preset biases is."

At least one 'customer service' chain, I think Pret a Manger, was testing cameras facing the staff (i.e., in the cash register) constantly streamed to an "AI" that would graph how happy it thought your facial expressions were during the day.
 
2022-05-28 2:04:56 PM  
Sociopath CEOs look at sincerity, good will, and empathy and think, "How can we quantify and monetize those things?"
 
2022-05-28 2:05:58 PM  

TheSubjunctive: At least one 'customer service' chain, I think Pret a Manger, was testing cameras facing the staff (i.e., in the cash register) constantly streamed to an "AI" that would graph how happy it thought your facial expressions were during the day.


And these companies have NO IDEA why people don't want to work for them.
 
2022-05-28 2:06:46 PM  
It's a deliberately arbitrary system that Starbucks will weaponize against unionizers in a desperate attempt to evade accusations of retaliation.
 
2022-05-28 2:07:43 PM  
Back in the days of Bennigan's, I thought I was being clever by asking people to fill out the comment card after their meal.  I was a friendly and could handle a lot of stressful guests with a smile on my face.  I must have gotten 100 comment cards filled out a month.  Of course the general manager didn't give a shiat about the 99 comment cards saying I was a five star server, it was the one comment card where I got zero stars because I asked a guest to see their I.D. because they wrote "C.I.D. " on their credit card instead of their signature.
 
2022-05-28 2:09:23 PM  

bdub77: Welp, good luck if you're not an attactive white girl. But no, of course not, there's no way that the people in the US would subject baristas to the same types of general profiling biases they demonstrate every other farking day of the year.


Which is why tipping is a sh*tty system. Hot, white people, especially young women, will always get more tips.
 
2022-05-28 2:10:11 PM  

bdub77: "Customer feedback is notoriously unreliable and discriminatory, particularly against women and people of color," said Dallan Flake, a law professor at Ohio Northern University who has written about customer reviews. "Despite this, businesses are relying on it more and more in making employment-related decisions, such as promotion, termination and pay rates."

Oh I see this was already covered in the article. Carry on then.


If it's discriminatory, why are they allowed to use it, legally speaking? This sounds like a lawsuit to me.
 
2022-05-28 2:15:06 PM  

Glorious Golden Ass: Back in the days of Bennigan's, I thought I was being clever by asking people to fill out the comment card after their meal.  I was a friendly and could handle a lot of stressful guests with a smile on my face.  I must have gotten 100 comment cards filled out a month.  Of course the general manager didn't give a shiat about the 99 comment cards saying I was a five star server, it was the one comment card where I got zero stars because I asked a guest to see their I.D. because they wrote "C.I.D. " on their credit card instead of their signature.


Yep, that's the thing. Customers will hate you even when you've done nothing wrong. They'll hate you just for doing your job. So your choices turn into 1) piss off a customer by following the rules and then get in trouble for a bad review, or 2) break the rules to make a customer happy then get in trouble for breaking the rules.
 
2022-05-28 2:28:30 PM  
I'm shocked everyday that Starbucks McDonald's and Budweiser exist. Stop going to terrible places and consuming terrible things
 
2022-05-28 2:32:59 PM  
Starbucks fark off. if i worked there i would immediately be looking for employment elsewhere.   Currently one would not have to look far either,  Seriously who ever the hell decided this was a good idea as well as anyone and everyone who green lighted it has one of the worst sense of timing i have ever encountered.
 
2022-05-28 2:35:01 PM  
Lol, I just found the "Nosedive" down vote sound effect buried in my old phone's ringtones.
 
2022-05-28 4:35:52 PM  
This is why I like European customer service. If you're doing your gorram crappy job, you shouldn't have to grin like an idiot and pretend you love it.
 
2022-05-28 5:00:41 PM  
Can't wait for the idiocracy version of Starbucks, then. Can't be far from this.
 
2022-05-28 5:37:12 PM  
Get away from customers as soon as you have the skills to.
 
2022-05-28 5:52:50 PM  
"While the ratings have been used for years, many workers said that the connection score system has also helped drive a national labor organizing campaign currently underway at Starbucks"

If you don't think this .news. wasn't stirred by union activists you would be very very wrong.

I wish people would just admit to it. It's okay to try to unionize. But don't bald-faced lie to the public about your motives and try to hide it behind something that has been there forever.

Scummy unions, that's all it is. They know facts won't win, so lies come out. (Sounds like the current party in power too. Interesting)
 
2022-05-28 5:56:49 PM  
I actually liked the idea of that Nosedive system, and to some degree China's social credit system. The reason she got bit by karma  so badly was that she was a social climber trying to worm her way out of her station. It didn't work out.

In smaller societies, where you pretty much know everyone, your reputation is something to be guarded and preserved.  In a more anonymous society, most actions have very little consequence. Our credit system is very narrow in that it only looks at whether you pay back what you owe.

It would actually be wonderful to have a system to know whether someone is a worthwhile human being or a shiatstain without having to invest the time.  People who treasure their anonymity to be shiatty people obviously push back against it.

I've long thought  that dating sites would be better if they had credit scores, criminal record checks, and verification of educational records.  A fantastic setup would be one where you have to put down a deposit, say, $5k.  You could fund the cost of operating the site and make your earnings by investing the funds. Frankly, If a you couldn't afford to be without 5k, don't have a good credit score, never finished your education, or have a criminal record, I don't want to even risk getting emotionally spun up on you before I sniff that out.  Those are all class shibboleths?  Yes they are.  Does that turn you off?  Great we shouldn't date.  I'm sure you're a fine person, but it's a waste of my time and yours, and a waste of both our emotional energy.

/married for years, so not really a concern anymore.
//gave up on the dating sites and apps - lots of crazy on there.
///met my wife through friends and first conversation was over how shiatty dating sites are... so... thanks dating sites?
 
2022-05-28 6:39:03 PM  

bdub77: "Customer feedback is notoriously unreliable and discriminatory, particularly against women and people of color," said Dallan Flake, a law professor at Ohio Northern University who has written about customer reviews. "Despite this, businesses are relying on it more and more in making employment-related decisions, such as promotion, termination and pay rates."
Oh I see this was already covered in the article. Carry on then.


But but but customer service.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-28 6:41:10 PM  

zgrizz: "While the ratings have been used for years, many workers said that the connection score system has also helped drive a national labor organizing campaign currently underway at Starbucks"

If you don't think this .news. wasn't stirred by union activists you would be very very wrong.

I wish people would just admit to it. It's okay to try to unionize. But don't bald-faced lie to the public about your motives and try to hide it behind something that has been there forever.

Scummy unions, that's all it is. They know facts won't win, so lies come out. (Sounds like the current party in power too. Interesting)


I realize you only see what you want to because you are a Fascist but the system hasn't been used specifically for employee reviews before now.
 
2022-05-28 6:53:59 PM  
This is the kind of idea that sounds good until you let humans participate.
 
2022-05-28 7:48:04 PM  

gyruss: Lol, I just found the "Nosedive" down vote sound effect buried in my old phone's ringtones.


I've played the game made as part of the promotion for Bandersnatch of it on the Spectrum.

Black Mirror: Bandersnatch | Nohzdyve hidden game | Played on real ZX Spectrum hardware
Youtube hWV-7Kk_63o


It's OK for a minute or two but no longer than that. Which is fine. It's never going to compete with any of the great Spectrum classics, but then again it was never intended to.

I'll say something on-topic in my next post in the thread.
 
2022-05-28 7:59:53 PM  

TFerWannaBe: This is the kind of idea that sounds good until you let humans participate.


That's exactly right. This is a way for corporations to offload a job that should be done by humans to a computer algorithm, and as always when this happens it has unintended and disastrous consequences.

Starbucks isn't the only company doing this. The companies involved in the gig economy and delivery do it as well. Every time you're asked to review your experience as a customer with a 1 to 5 star rating, you're feeding the algorithm's judgment of the employee.

Companies tend to be very, very demanding with these. Anything less than five stars is considered to be a bad review. The threshold before doing things that reduce a worker's income such as reducing hours or taking them away from the more lucrative jobs is set high enough that even a modest percentage of ratings below five can harm them.

What makes this worse is that some customers make completely unreasonable demands that workers terrified of getting a less than perfect score feel obligated to indulge. People with Ring cameras ask their Amazon delivery people to dance in front of their camera when they drop off a parcel. They dance. Not because they want to, because they're afraid of the very real consequences they may face at work if they don't.

It gives individual members of the public far too much power. Power that is and will continue to be abused, even if the ones doing it aren't aware of what they're doing. To them a dance request is a bit of fun. To the driver receiving it it's a demand backed by menace. What makes this particularly dangerous is that some other people can't be pleased enough. I've heard some say they never give five stars, because five stars is perfect and no one is perfect. Once those people have damaged a worker's rating they truly can't afford any more.

It's unhealthy, it's inhuman and it has to go. In the meantime, if you are asked to rate someone, always give five stars.
 
2022-05-28 8:17:00 PM  
shiat rolls down hill. Looks like they tried to put the burden of raising store scores on the managers, and managers in turn punished workers when store scores were low. That's something they should have expected.
 
2022-05-28 8:32:35 PM  
I used to work for a tech consulting company. They were big on metrics. Both Microsoft's and Hubstaff. Nasty Big Brother sort of stuff, but they were very interested in having metrics and ranks for everything.
 
2022-05-28 8:35:59 PM  

zgrizz: "While the ratings have been used for years, many workers said that the connection score system has also helped drive a national labor organizing campaign currently underway at Starbucks"

If you don't think this .news. wasn't stirred by union activists you would be very very wrong.

I wish people would just admit to it. It's okay to try to unionize. But don't bald-faced lie to the public about your motives and try to hide it behind something that has been there forever.

Scummy unions, that's all it is. They know facts won't win, so lies come out. (Sounds like the current party in power too. Interesting)


Yeah, workers can't make a living wage, corporate profits are high, and top executives are paid obscene amounts of money, but barely-existent unions are the problem.  What a flaming putz you are.
 
2022-05-28 8:48:44 PM  

Giant Clown Shoe: "People come to Starbucks for the experience."

[Fark user image image 708x404]


Remember when it was just called "shopping" or "running errands"?

Are we so deprived of meaningful things that now when you buy something, it's an experience?

What's next? "I wasn't using the restroom, I was having a sanitary hygienic experience..."
 
2022-05-28 8:54:46 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: Can't wait for the idiocracy version of Starbucks, then. Can't be far from this.


The movie already covered that:

Idiocracy: All Starbucks Scenes
Youtube -yf7QAw17z8
 
2022-05-28 11:12:16 PM  

Flowery Twats: I used to work for a tech consulting company. They were big on metrics. Both Microsoft's and Hubstaff. Nasty Big Brother sort of stuff, but they were very interested in having metrics and ranks for everything.


I can tell you exactly which of my team members isn't pulling their weight and needs to be let go based on metrics.

I hear that Amazon lets you score other employees on effectiveness. I'd kill for a system like that at my job where there are so many inept paragons of mediocrity it's no longer entertaining.
 
2022-05-28 11:26:42 PM  

Gordon Bennett: That's exactly right. This is a way for corporations to offload a job that should be done by humans to a computer algorithm, and as always when this happens it has unintended and disastrous consequences.


E-yup.  This from article:

"It's frustrating because there's a lot of push and drive to focus on speed and volume, but in the same breadth, have us make these connections with people," said Olivia Lewis, 30, a worker at a Starbucks that recently voted to unionize in Boone, North Carolina. "That's what we want to do. We're in the service industry. We love talking to people. But you can't do both."

This is the fatal flaw in customer service jobs. In the old day, you could serve people.  You could speak to them sincerely, and it was no big deal.  Now there's no time, but you're still supposed to give the same slavish devotion to some asshole who is always in a hurry, and will let you know about it.
If you want them  to sling drinks, then let them  do it.  Chitty chatting is another job, and they don't blend well.  And some people who are more than willing to make drinks all day are not so keen on socializing.  I shouldn't need  a college degree to make coffee drinks, so that I can charm customers too.
And oh--ejecting drunks and homeless people and dealing with people who camp  out at the tables is not their job either.

/I utterly hate the service industry.  And when I found that quote, I finally knew why.  There's something so completely fake about it, it shouldn't exist.  But it's all part of fake world of endless, painless capitalism.
 
2022-05-29 4:16:41 AM  

Likwit: Looks like they tried to put the burden of raising store scores on the managers


Who is supposed to do that if not the managers? Isn't managing the stores the reason their jobs exist?
 
2022-05-29 5:33:51 AM  

DerAppie: Likwit: Looks like they tried to put the burden of raising store scores on the managers

Who is supposed to do that if not the managers? Isn't managing the stores the reason their jobs exist?


Because individuals are being rated, so when they told the managers to raise store scores, it sounds like they start punishing people who weren't rated well. It makes sense if you're only looking at it from afar, but it's a shiatty system because the customer is almost always wrong.
 
2022-05-29 6:06:51 AM  

Likwit: DerAppie: Likwit: Looks like they tried to put the burden of raising store scores on the managers

Who is supposed to do that if not the managers? Isn't managing the stores the reason their jobs exist?

Because individuals are being rated, so when they told the managers to raise store scores, it sounds like they start punishing people who weren't rated well. It makes sense if you're only looking at it from afar, but it's a shiatty system because the customer is almost always wrong.


Ofcourse they are rating individuals. If I have to consider whether or not I am going to keep you employed, I'm going to look at how you rate, not at how your co-worker rates. While I agree that the system as described in tfa sucks balls, that doesn't change that "the burden of raising store scores" is inherently a managerial duty. There is nothing being pushed on them.
 
2022-05-29 7:14:53 AM  

DerAppie: Likwit: DerAppie: Likwit: Looks like they tried to put the burden of raising store scores on the managers

Who is supposed to do that if not the managers? Isn't managing the stores the reason their jobs exist?

Because individuals are being rated, so when they told the managers to raise store scores, it sounds like they start punishing people who weren't rated well. It makes sense if you're only looking at it from afar, but it's a shiatty system because the customer is almost always wrong.

Ofcourse they are rating individuals. If I have to consider whether or not I am going to keep you employed, I'm going to look at how you rate, not at how your co-worker rates. While I agree that the system as described in tfa sucks balls, that doesn't change that "the burden of raising store scores" is inherently a managerial duty. There is nothing being pushed on them.


I guess my wording wasn't to your liking. The system doesn't make sense. It's essentialy basing "performance" on individual Yelp! reviews. Telling managers they have to raise store scores is like telling a baseball manager that he has to make fans like the players' personalities. Unless they're creative, the only response is to get rid of or punish people customers perceive as unfriendly. The article said they were getting bad reviews when they were slammed with orders.

I had a few drinks at the barbecue, but it made sense to me 😳
 
2022-05-29 9:28:41 AM  

Psychohazard: Sociopath CEOs look at sincerity, good will, and empathy and think, "How can we quantify and monetize those things?"


They expect emotional labor to be part of what employees provide and then try to not pay for it.
 
2022-05-29 12:05:17 PM  

bdub77: Welp, good luck if you're not an attactive white girl. But no, of course not, there's no way that the people in the US would subject baristas to the same types of general profiling biases they demonstrate every other farking day of the year.


Too bad those people can't find anywhere else to work.
 
2022-05-29 12:09:13 PM  

mrmopar5287: Psychohazard: Sociopath CEOs look at sincerity, good will, and empathy and think, "How can we quantify and monetize those things?"
They expect emotional labor to be part of what employees provide and then try to not pay for it.


Yeah, good call.  while the populace on a whole turns into bigger snowflakes every day.  And the same thing is responsible for both of them:  Advertising.
the center cannot hold, etc.  I bet the advertising execs never bet on creating this monster.  come and get it, twats.  She's all yours.
 
2022-05-29 12:10:07 PM  

Gordon Bennett: TFerWannaBe: This is the kind of idea that sounds good until you let humans participate.

That's exactly right. This is a way for corporations to offload a job that should be done by humans to a computer algorithm, and as always when this happens it has unintended and disastrous consequences.

Starbucks isn't the only company doing this. The companies involved in the gig economy and delivery do it as well. Every time you're asked to review your experience as a customer with a 1 to 5 star rating, you're feeding the algorithm's judgment of the employee.

Companies tend to be very, very demanding with these. Anything less than five stars is considered to be a bad review. The threshold before doing things that reduce a worker's income such as reducing hours or taking them away from the more lucrative jobs is set high enough that even a modest percentage of ratings below five can harm them.

What makes this worse is that some customers make completely unreasonable demands that workers terrified of getting a less than perfect score feel obligated to indulge. People with Ring cameras ask their Amazon delivery people to dance in front of their camera when they drop off a parcel. They dance. Not because they want to, because they're afraid of the very real consequences they may face at work if they don't.

It gives individual members of the public far too much power. Power that is and will continue to be abused, even if the ones doing it aren't aware of what they're doing. To them a dance request is a bit of fun. To the driver receiving it it's a demand backed by menace. What makes this particularly dangerous is that some other people can't be pleased enough. I've heard some say they never give five stars, because five stars is perfect and no one is perfect. Once those people have damaged a worker's rating they truly can't afford any more.

It's unhealthy, it's inhuman and it has to go. In the meantime, if you are asked to rate someone, always give five stars.


...or don't rate them at all
 
2022-05-29 12:22:45 PM  

ThighsofGlory: It's unhealthy, it's inhuman and it has to go. In the meantime, if you are asked to rate someone, always give five stars.
...or don't rate them at all


.....or don't use them at all.  You know how to feed yourself, right?  How come this never occurs to any of you?  You just said that these places are unhealthy and inhumane. So why do you support them?

the social class line actually exists, and it's here on display Every Farking Day.  This is the audience that Drew wanted, and now he has them.  The Leets--absorbed in the class war that tells them that someone needs to wait on them, or they have failed at life.   How else can you show you successful you are?
 
2022-05-29 12:43:10 PM  

ThighsofGlory: ...or don't rate them at all


If someone provides average/expected service and I get a chance to rate them, I rate them highly. There are so many people (SO MANY) that only get negative feedback, because that's the most prominent: when someone complains. They need high ratings from more people to make the occasional, sometimes undeserved negative rating to fade into background noise.
 
2022-05-29 1:33:40 PM  

ThighsofGlory: Gordon Bennett: TFerWannaBe: This is the kind of idea that sounds good until you let humans participate.

That's exactly right. This is a way for corporations to offload a job that should be done by humans to a computer algorithm, and as always when this happens it has unintended and disastrous consequences.

Starbucks isn't the only company doing this. The companies involved in the gig economy and delivery do it as well. Every time you're asked to review your experience as a customer with a 1 to 5 star rating, you're feeding the algorithm's judgment of the employee.

Companies tend to be very, very demanding with these. Anything less than five stars is considered to be a bad review. The threshold before doing things that reduce a worker's income such as reducing hours or taking them away from the more lucrative jobs is set high enough that even a modest percentage of ratings below five can harm them.

What makes this worse is that some customers make completely unreasonable demands that workers terrified of getting a less than perfect score feel obligated to indulge. People with Ring cameras ask their Amazon delivery people to dance in front of their camera when they drop off a parcel. They dance. Not because they want to, because they're afraid of the very real consequences they may face at work if they don't.

It gives individual members of the public far too much power. Power that is and will continue to be abused, even if the ones doing it aren't aware of what they're doing. To them a dance request is a bit of fun. To the driver receiving it it's a demand backed by menace. What makes this particularly dangerous is that some other people can't be pleased enough. I've heard some say they never give five stars, because five stars is perfect and no one is perfect. Once those people have damaged a worker's rating they truly can't afford any more.

It's unhealthy, it's inhuman and it has to go. In the meantime, if you are asked to rate someone, always give five stars.

...or don't rate them at all


Parliament recognized this was a bad idea in the 1860s
 
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