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(TheAutopian)   The enginerds at Munro & Associates crack open a Rivian EV and it's riveting   (theautopian.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Ford F-Series, Manufacturing, Cory Steuben, Pickup truck, Rivian R1T, plastic clips, Cory note, trim piece  
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1251 clicks; posted to STEM » on 26 May 2022 at 5:10 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



34 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-05-26 3:54:33 PM  
Ok that was an interesting article, I may have learned something about how cars are put together.
 
2022-05-26 4:21:12 PM  
This looks good to them????
images-stag.jazelc.comView Full Size


That looks like a frigging nightmare to me.
 
2022-05-26 5:13:24 PM  
They are doing such good work over at The Autopian.  By curious car people for curious car people.
 
2022-05-26 5:24:22 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: This looks good to them????
[images-stag.jazelc.com image 850x445]

That looks like a frigging nightmare to me.


Compared to an ICE, it's remarkably simplistic.
 
2022-05-26 5:24:23 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: This looks good to them????
[images-stag.jazelc.com image 850x445]

That looks like a frigging nightmare to me.


Looks like an engine compartment to me. Even electric cars have parts.
 
2022-05-26 5:26:55 PM  
It's funny... I was talking about these the other day, there are one or two driving around town, and the wife of one of my coworkers either works for the company, or some company that's working closely with them, because she has the inside scoop. They apparently delivered the first shipment of these about two months ago. 6. 6 cars. That was the total inventory. I get that they are a new company and don't want to fill up their lot with 500 cars, but 6 seems rather conservative.

They look pretty nice, though. Way better than that Telsa abortion.
 
2022-05-26 5:33:29 PM  
"I'd use 3M Dual Lock," chirps Sandy. This is essentially a velcro-style setup, and I totally see why Munro & Associates' boss would suggest that. So long as there are locating features in the trim piece to make sure it sits exactly where it should (and that's one of the advantages of the magnet setup, I assume - the piece will want to center itself), that velcro-style tape should work well.


images-stag.jazelc.comView Full Size


Oh, this shiat is AWESOME. The pieces snap together, it's not hook/loo[p style, and it is far superior to regular Velcro.

Problem is the adhesive. I first encountered it doing Teleheath setups for a hospital. We stuck a couple of pieces on, but if we did it when the TV had been on for awhile and the bottom was warm, the glue would stay liquid, and would eventually fail. The glue, not the velcro. I can't see that working well inside of a car. Even without an ICE generating heat, you're going to get it, and in the summer, it's definitely going to be hot. I just don't see this working for this application. Maybe if they put it on and let the adhesive cure, but not like you normally would.
 
2022-05-26 5:35:51 PM  

Mikey1969: It's funny... I was talking about these the other day, there are one or two driving around town, and the wife of one of my coworkers either works for the company, or some company that's working closely with them, because she has the inside scoop. They apparently delivered the first shipment of these about two months ago. 6. 6 cars. That was the total inventory. I get that they are a new company and don't want to fill up their lot with 500 cars, but 6 seems rather conservative.

They look pretty nice, though. Way better than that Telsa abortion.


Yeah, there are 3 of them tooling around just North of Chicago that I've seen.  A nice Teal one stopped by and picked up my neighbor.  Turns out the friend works at Rivian and this was #9.   They do look nice too.
 
2022-05-26 5:37:24 PM  

AlgaeRancher: Ok that was an interesting article, I may have learned something about how cars are put together.


If you're not already familiar w/ the author, David spent years writing for Jalopnik.com. His life revolves around vehicles like no one I've ever known.
You'll need to update your tetanus shot first.
 
2022-05-26 5:53:54 PM  
They're cool vehicles for sure. Incredibly well thought out features. Stuff that would make me want a truck even though I only occasionally have use for one. If anyone is interested, Doug DeMuro has a great breakdown.

I'm still not sure how I feel about electric trucks, though. The biggest, least efficienct, least aerodynamic vehicles Americans drive. It's probably better that trucks just go away. I've heard that 4 of the top 5 household types that buy trucks make in excess of $200k and 90% of that group use them as family vehicles. It's luxury consumption, not utility.
 
2022-05-26 6:18:30 PM  

Mikey1969: They apparently delivered the first shipment of these about two months ago. 6. 6 cars. That was the total inventory. I get that they are a new company and don't want to fill up their lot with 500 cars, but 6 seems rather conservative.


Are you talking like a dealership? Rivian does like Tesla, with "showrooms" and you direct-order your R1T or R1S to be delivered to you (or pick it up at their showroom). They don't run like having an inventory at dealerships, other than the display models at showrooms. That, and they are still working through orders for vehicles, so they don't have spare vehicles to sell beyond what is still on order to be built.
 
2022-05-26 6:21:06 PM  

Mikey1969: I can't see that working well inside of a car


That's the fasteners that came with my I-PASS (toll road transponder). You stick it to the windscreen up inside one of the corners and it allows you to take the transponder down to hide it or take it with you (stops theft, or allows you to swap to another vehicle).

It holds up OK to the heat inside cars but I've found you have to pull it straight off the windscreen to leave the tape part stuck on the windscreen. If you try to work it off by tearing away at one edge of it, that's when the adhesive strips start to peel off the windscreen. Pull straight away and it will take more pressure to break it loose, but it pops right off.
 
2022-05-26 6:23:24 PM  

Likwit: I'm still not sure how I feel about electric trucks, though. The biggest, least efficienct, least aerodynamic vehicles Americans drive.


The biggest reduction in consumption of fuel can be gained by finding a combination of replacing:
1. The most fuel inefficient vehicles with BEVs, and;
2. Doing this in large numbers across the fleet of fuel inefficient vehicles.
 
2022-05-26 6:26:37 PM  

Mikey1969: "I'd use 3M Dual Lock," chirps Sandy. This is essentially a velcro-style setup, and I totally see why Munro & Associates' boss would suggest that. So long as there are locating features in the trim piece to make sure it sits exactly where it should (and that's one of the advantages of the magnet setup, I assume - the piece will want to center itself), that velcro-style tape should work well.


[images-stag.jazelc.com image 850x511]

Oh, this shiat is AWESOME. The pieces snap together, it's not hook/loo[p style, and it is far superior to regular Velcro.

Problem is the adhesive. I first encountered it doing Teleheath setups for a hospital. We stuck a couple of pieces on, but if we did it when the TV had been on for awhile and the bottom was warm, the glue would stay liquid, and would eventually fail. The glue, not the velcro. I can't see that working well inside of a car. Even without an ICE generating heat, you're going to get it, and in the summer, it's definitely going to be hot. I just don't see this working for this application. Maybe if they put it on and let the adhesive cure, but not like you normally would.


That looks similar to 3M tape used to attach the transponders from the local tollway to a car's windshield. The bristles have little mushroom capped ends on both sides of the tape that interlock.

Anyway, when I removed my transponder, it felt like I was going to cave in the windshield, both the adhesive and interlocking spikes were extremely strong, even after a few years in Toronto's climate. Perhaps there's a variety with automotive rated adhesive, because it did not come off easily.
 
2022-05-26 6:32:01 PM  

mrmopar5287: Likwit: I'm still not sure how I feel about electric trucks, though. The biggest, least efficienct, least aerodynamic vehicles Americans drive.

The biggest reduction in consumption of fuel can be gained by finding a combination of replacing:
1. The most fuel inefficient vehicles with BEVs, and;
2. Doing this in large numbers across the fleet of fuel inefficient vehicles.


You're absolutely right. But I'm saying it would be better if Americans drove more sensible vehicles. They don't and won't, so we're getting these trucks that weigh 6,000 to 9,000lbs (the Rivian clocks in at over 7,000).

The carbon "payback" on small, efficient EVs can be as little as a few months, but battery size, power mix, etc. can make that longer. Up to 5 years in some cases. In a shiathole like Wyoming or West Virginia, the payback period is essentially never. I'd like to see the math on these trucks.
 
2022-05-26 6:50:09 PM  

Likwit: You're absolutely right. But I'm saying it would be better if Americans drove more sensible vehicles.


Oh, get farked...

Likwit: They don't and won't


See? You answered your own question!

I'm just being silly about this, not any serious criticism of you.
 
2022-05-26 6:56:00 PM  
Cory also points out that Rivian uses a traditional air-to-refrigerant condenser out front rather than a liquid-cooled condenser (which basically just uses a radiator out front to cool liquid coolant, which flows into a liquid-cooled condenser that looks like the chiller pointed out above). As Cory says, a liquid-cooled condenser would allow the entire refrigerant system to be tightly-packaged; Rivian's approach requires long lines and hoses to the front of the vehicle. I'm curious to know why Rivian made this choice; I used to work directly with the head of Rivian's thermal team (a sharp dude) so I have no doubt there was some good thought put into the design.

This is probably simplicity, efficiency, and reliability.

Running refrigerant lines eliminates leak points since the lines are solid (usually stainless steel lines). It makes for a more simple system that directly pumps heat out through the radiator (or absorbs it in a reverse heat cycle) without having to have all the leak points that come with a liquid system, plus another pump to circulate that liquid coolant.
 
2022-05-26 8:11:02 PM  

Johnson: Mikey1969: It's funny... I was talking about these the other day, there are one or two driving around town, and the wife of one of my coworkers either works for the company, or some company that's working closely with them, because she has the inside scoop. They apparently delivered the first shipment of these about two months ago. 6. 6 cars. That was the total inventory. I get that they are a new company and don't want to fill up their lot with 500 cars, but 6 seems rather conservative.

They look pretty nice, though. Way better than that Telsa abortion.

Yeah, there are 3 of them tooling around just North of Chicago that I've seen.  A nice Teal one stopped by and picked up my neighbor.  Turns out the friend works at Rivian and this was #9.   They do look nice too.


Teal would be interesting for those. I'd like to see one...
 
2022-05-26 8:12:22 PM  

mrmopar5287: Cory also points out that Rivian uses a traditional air-to-refrigerant condenser out front rather than a liquid-cooled condenser (which basically just uses a radiator out front to cool liquid coolant, which flows into a liquid-cooled condenser that looks like the chiller pointed out above). As Cory says, a liquid-cooled condenser would allow the entire refrigerant system to be tightly-packaged; Rivian's approach requires long lines and hoses to the front of the vehicle. I'm curious to know why Rivian made this choice; I used to work directly with the head of Rivian's thermal team (a sharp dude) so I have no doubt there was some good thought put into the design.

This is probably simplicity, efficiency, and reliability.

Running refrigerant lines eliminates leak points since the lines are solid (usually stainless steel lines). It makes for a more simple system that directly pumps heat out through the radiator (or absorbs it in a reverse heat cycle) without having to have all the leak points that come with a liquid system, plus another pump to circulate that liquid coolant.


Sorry, I was told that one of the amazing things about EVs is that there aren't any parts, they're magic, so engineers aren't really needed.
 
2022-05-26 8:25:50 PM  
What does BelGarion have to say about it though?
 
2022-05-26 8:27:13 PM  
I'm not sober enough to RTFA, but I am generally in favor of trying new shiat, even it it seems weird, which it seems Rivian is doing.
 
2022-05-26 9:50:54 PM  
One of the first Rivians was purchased by the head of the YRPA, here in Billings, Montana.

It died less than four days after he got it. The major problem with the vehicle is that the entire battery system is interdependent, ala Ford, meaning that while it will hold something of a charge in 20+, it will certainly drain like a sieve in -10.

So, unlike Ford, who say "We warned you...", Rivian sent an entire INSULATED battery pack and a tech to install it. They want to see if the truck can survive an entire Montana year (+100 to -40) without a major incident.

"Like Hell for vehicles."
 
2022-05-26 10:12:30 PM  

Mikey1969: mrmopar5287: Cory also points out that Rivian uses a traditional air-to-refrigerant condenser out front rather than a liquid-cooled condenser (which basically just uses a radiator out front to cool liquid coolant, which flows into a liquid-cooled condenser that looks like the chiller pointed out above). As Cory says, a liquid-cooled condenser would allow the entire refrigerant system to be tightly-packaged; Rivian's approach requires long lines and hoses to the front of the vehicle. I'm curious to know why Rivian made this choice; I used to work directly with the head of Rivian's thermal team (a sharp dude) so I have no doubt there was some good thought put into the design.

This is probably simplicity, efficiency, and reliability.

Running refrigerant lines eliminates leak points since the lines are solid (usually stainless steel lines). It makes for a more simple system that directly pumps heat out through the radiator (or absorbs it in a reverse heat cycle) without having to have all the leak points that come with a liquid system, plus another pump to circulate that liquid coolant.

Sorry, I was told that one of the amazing things about EVs is that there aren't any parts, they're magic, so engineers aren't really needed.


Whoever told you that was an idiot. If you took it even a tiny bit seriously, you're an idiot, too.
 
2022-05-26 10:23:15 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: This looks good to them????
[images-stag.jazelc.com image 850x445]

That looks like a frigging nightmare to me.


That just means that you actually have no idea about  the amount of engineering that goes into modern cars.
 
2022-05-26 10:47:19 PM  

Jedekai: One of the first Rivians was purchased by the head of the YRPA, here in Billings, Montana.

It died less than four days after he got it. The major problem with the vehicle is that the entire battery system is interdependent, ala Ford, meaning that while it will hold something of a charge in 20+, it will certainly drain like a sieve in -10.

So, unlike Ford, who say "We warned you...", Rivian sent an entire INSULATED battery pack and a tech to install it. They want to see if the truck can survive an entire Montana year (+100 to -40) without a major incident.

"Like Hell for vehicles."


Weird, because one of the teaser videos from Rivian was their engineers doing testing in or near International Falls MN to do extreme cold weather testing of their development mules. Seems like an urban legend that they'd do testing in what is literally the Icebox of America and then have a vehicle crap out in lesser climates, and do more testing with a customer as the beta tester.
 
2022-05-26 10:53:56 PM  

raygundan: Mikey1969: mrmopar5287: Cory also points out that Rivian uses a traditional air-to-refrigerant condenser out front rather than a liquid-cooled condenser (which basically just uses a radiator out front to cool liquid coolant, which flows into a liquid-cooled condenser that looks like the chiller pointed out above). As Cory says, a liquid-cooled condenser would allow the entire refrigerant system to be tightly-packaged; Rivian's approach requires long lines and hoses to the front of the vehicle. I'm curious to know why Rivian made this choice; I used to work directly with the head of Rivian's thermal team (a sharp dude) so I have no doubt there was some good thought put into the design.

This is probably simplicity, efficiency, and reliability.

Running refrigerant lines eliminates leak points since the lines are solid (usually stainless steel lines). It makes for a more simple system that directly pumps heat out through the radiator (or absorbs it in a reverse heat cycle) without having to have all the leak points that come with a liquid system, plus another pump to circulate that liquid coolant.

Sorry, I was told that one of the amazing things about EVs is that there aren't any parts, they're magic, so engineers aren't really needed.

Whoever told you that was an idiot. If you took it even a tiny bit seriously, you're an idiot, too.


Nope... Just one of the Fark Constants® , that's all. I knew it was bullshiat, but some who pray upon the Holy Altar of EVs around here will tell you this.
 
2022-05-26 11:36:14 PM  

mrmopar5287: Mikey1969: I can't see that working well inside of a car

That's the fasteners that came with my I-PASS (toll road transponder). You stick it to the windscreen up inside one of the corners and it allows you to take the transponder down to hide it or take it with you (stops theft, or allows you to swap to another vehicle).

It holds up OK to the heat inside cars but I've found you have to pull it straight off the windscreen to leave the tape part stuck on the windscreen. If you try to work it off by tearing away at one edge of it, that's when the adhesive strips start to peel off the windscreen. Pull straight away and it will take more pressure to break it loose, but it pops right off.


Every single transponder I had in ten years, the adhesive failed. Where you drive might play into it, I would go down to Laredo every now and then for example.
 
2022-05-26 11:48:58 PM  

Mikey1969: raygundan: Mikey1969: mrmopar5287: Cory also points out that Rivian uses a traditional air-to-refrigerant condenser out front rather than a liquid-cooled condenser (which basically just uses a radiator out front to cool liquid coolant, which flows into a liquid-cooled condenser that looks like the chiller pointed out above). As Cory says, a liquid-cooled condenser would allow the entire refrigerant system to be tightly-packaged; Rivian's approach requires long lines and hoses to the front of the vehicle. I'm curious to know why Rivian made this choice; I used to work directly with the head of Rivian's thermal team (a sharp dude) so I have no doubt there was some good thought put into the design.

This is probably simplicity, efficiency, and reliability.

Running refrigerant lines eliminates leak points since the lines are solid (usually stainless steel lines). It makes for a more simple system that directly pumps heat out through the radiator (or absorbs it in a reverse heat cycle) without having to have all the leak points that come with a liquid system, plus another pump to circulate that liquid coolant.

Sorry, I was told that one of the amazing things about EVs is that there aren't any parts, they're magic, so engineers aren't really needed.

Whoever told you that was an idiot. If you took it even a tiny bit seriously, you're an idiot, too.

Nope... Just one of the Fark Constants® , that's all. I knew it was bullshiat, but some who pray upon the Holy Altar of EVs around here will tell you this.


I've been in a shiatload of Fark EV threads, and I love EVs myself, and I've never seen that on Fark. Sounds like a strawman you built in your head.
 
2022-05-27 12:14:06 AM  

Likwit: Mikey1969: raygundan: Mikey1969: mrmopar5287: Cory also points out that Rivian uses a traditional air-to-refrigerant condenser out front rather than a liquid-cooled condenser (which basically just uses a radiator out front to cool liquid coolant, which flows into a liquid-cooled condenser that looks like the chiller pointed out above). As Cory says, a liquid-cooled condenser would allow the entire refrigerant system to be tightly-packaged; Rivian's approach requires long lines and hoses to the front of the vehicle. I'm curious to know why Rivian made this choice; I used to work directly with the head of Rivian's thermal team (a sharp dude) so I have no doubt there was some good thought put into the design.

This is probably simplicity, efficiency, and reliability.

Running refrigerant lines eliminates leak points since the lines are solid (usually stainless steel lines). It makes for a more simple system that directly pumps heat out through the radiator (or absorbs it in a reverse heat cycle) without having to have all the leak points that come with a liquid system, plus another pump to circulate that liquid coolant.

Sorry, I was told that one of the amazing things about EVs is that there aren't any parts, they're magic, so engineers aren't really needed.

Whoever told you that was an idiot. If you took it even a tiny bit seriously, you're an idiot, too.

Nope... Just one of the Fark Constants® , that's all. I knew it was bullshiat, but some who pray upon the Holy Altar of EVs around here will tell you this.

I've been in a shiatload of Fark EV threads, and I love EVs myself, and I've never seen that on Fark. Sounds like a strawman you built in your head.


Nope, it's here. Oh, and I'm used to the "I live in these boards, read every word ever posted, have an eidetic memory, and I've never ever read that." bullshiat, so I guess I should just save you the time and lies and just have you stop now.
 
2022-05-27 12:15:42 AM  

BolloxReader: mrmopar5287: Mikey1969: I can't see that working well inside of a car

That's the fasteners that came with my I-PASS (toll road transponder). You stick it to the windscreen up inside one of the corners and it allows you to take the transponder down to hide it or take it with you (stops theft, or allows you to swap to another vehicle).

It holds up OK to the heat inside cars but I've found you have to pull it straight off the windscreen to leave the tape part stuck on the windscreen. If you try to work it off by tearing away at one edge of it, that's when the adhesive strips start to peel off the windscreen. Pull straight away and it will take more pressure to break it loose, but it pops right off.

Every single transponder I had in ten years, the adhesive failed. Where you drive might play into it, I would go down to Laredo every now and then for example.


It really is awesome shiat though. You know it's a good fastener when every time it fails, it's not the Velcro part. Weird part is-3M is supposed to be like the best tape and adhesive manufacturer, aren't they?
 
2022-05-27 12:18:50 AM  

Mikey1969: Likwit: Mikey1969: raygundan: Mikey1969: mrmopar5287: Cory also points out that Rivian uses a traditional air-to-refrigerant condenser out front rather than a liquid-cooled condenser (which basically just uses a radiator out front to cool liquid coolant, which flows into a liquid-cooled condenser that looks like the chiller pointed out above). As Cory says, a liquid-cooled condenser would allow the entire refrigerant system to be tightly-packaged; Rivian's approach requires long lines and hoses to the front of the vehicle. I'm curious to know why Rivian made this choice; I used to work directly with the head of Rivian's thermal team (a sharp dude) so I have no doubt there was some good thought put into the design.

This is probably simplicity, efficiency, and reliability.

Running refrigerant lines eliminates leak points since the lines are solid (usually stainless steel lines). It makes for a more simple system that directly pumps heat out through the radiator (or absorbs it in a reverse heat cycle) without having to have all the leak points that come with a liquid system, plus another pump to circulate that liquid coolant.

Sorry, I was told that one of the amazing things about EVs is that there aren't any parts, they're magic, so engineers aren't really needed.

Whoever told you that was an idiot. If you took it even a tiny bit seriously, you're an idiot, too.

Nope... Just one of the Fark Constants® , that's all. I knew it was bullshiat, but some who pray upon the Holy Altar of EVs around here will tell you this.

I've been in a shiatload of Fark EV threads, and I love EVs myself, and I've never seen that on Fark. Sounds like a strawman you built in your head.

Nope, it's here. Oh, and I'm used to the "I live in these boards, read every word ever posted, have an eidetic memory, and I've never ever read that." bullshiat, so I guess I should just save you the time and lies and just have you stop now.


Nah. You definitely made it up in your head.
 
2022-05-27 6:48:21 AM  
So, uh, what's a frunk?
 
2022-05-27 9:10:55 AM  

Nurglitch: So, uh, what's a frunk?


Front trunk. The lack of a large engine/transmission means what used to be the engine compartment can be repurposed as a trunk. In the front, so "FRUNK."
 
2022-05-27 11:15:34 AM  

Nurglitch: So, uh, what's a frunk?


Front Trunk

I hate it too.
 
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