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(The Ringer)   Why do NBA teams insist on scoring and will this satisfy my boss' requirement for more "Think pieces?"   (theringer.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Game, NBA Playoffs, Playoffs, close game, Games, 2016 Summer Olympics, Summer Olympic Games, NBA Finals  
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482 clicks; posted to Sports » on 26 May 2022 at 1:00 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-05-26 1:03:41 PM  
Is it really that difficult for ol' submitter to realize why a lot of blowouts might be a bad thing for basketball? At least in terms of ratings
 
2022-05-26 1:25:07 PM  

TDWCom29: Is it really that difficult for ol' submitter to realize why a lot of blowouts might be a bad thing for basketball? At least in terms of ratings


There hasn't really been much of a point of watching any of these games in either conference final past the first quarter so far.  I just sort of scan ESPN.com or other sites to check the score to see if it's worth bothering to put the game on.
 
2022-05-26 1:33:21 PM  
Maybe lop 20ish games off the regular season and cut the play off berths by a third? Just a thought.
 
2022-05-26 1:57:42 PM  
WTF is a 'think-piece' and how is it different from an op-ed?
 
2022-05-26 2:03:32 PM  
if you aren't allowed to play defense then there is no incentive to not go with maximum offense.

they got what they wanted and it's their faults for not being able to see the entirely predictable outcome.
 
2022-05-26 2:08:12 PM  
Run down the court, shoot a 3.
Run down the court, shoot a 3.
Run down the court, shoot a 3.
Run down the court, shoot a 3.
Run down the court, shoot a 3.
Run down the court, shoot a 3.
Run down the court, shoot a 3.
Run down the court, shoot a 3.

Today's NBA.
 
2022-05-26 2:09:55 PM  

TDWCom29: Is it really that difficult for ol' submitter to realize why a lot of blowouts might be a bad thing for basketball? At least in terms of ratings


I'm pretty sure subby is just milking this stupid meme of "take any article from The Ringer and make up a headline that implies every single staff contributor is either (a) a dumb frat boy (b) pop culture clout chaser or (c) BILL SIMMONS BOSTON HOMER" regardless of its content.

I greatly preferred Grantland too, but Grantland had the initial benefit of being intended as something of a prestige site that Bill Simmons charmed old ESPN leadership into supporting in which actual revenue and click generation was NOT the goal, and once the old guard was pushed out (and Simmons being Simmons annoyed just about anyone he answered to) that was its death knell.

And let's just say Spotify would not be supportive of The Ringer deciding to cut back on podcasts and reintroduce more meandering (but usually decent) long form articles.
 
2022-05-26 2:12:24 PM  

TDWCom29: Is it really that difficult for ol' submitter to realize why a lot of blowouts might be a bad thing for basketball? At least in terms of ratings


all the proof you need is to look at the Womans' NCAA tournament.

Several years ago i looked at the previous few tournaments and there wasn't a single upset of more than 2 ranking points, every year 4 of the top 6 teams were in the semi-finals and the average point spread was something like 15 points/game.  it may have changed since then but based on how little i hear about the tournament i doubt it.

the only people who are going to stick around for that kind of play are the fans of the best teams and them alone.
 
2022-05-26 2:30:10 PM  

Killer Cars: TDWCom29: Is it really that difficult for ol' submitter to realize why a lot of blowouts might be a bad thing for basketball? At least in terms of ratings

I'm pretty sure subby is just milking this stupid meme of "take any article from The Ringer and make up a headline that implies every single staff contributor is either (a) a dumb frat boy (b) pop culture clout chaser or (c) BILL SIMMONS BOSTON HOMER" regardless of its content.

I greatly preferred Grantland too, but Grantland had the initial benefit of being intended as something of a prestige site that Bill Simmons charmed old ESPN leadership into supporting in which actual revenue and click generation was NOT the goal, and once the old guard was pushed out (and Simmons being Simmons annoyed just about anyone he answered to) that was its death knell.

And let's just say Spotify would not be supportive of The Ringer deciding to cut back on podcasts and reintroduce more meandering (but usually decent) long form articles.


Yeah, there's a mod/admin/whatever who's really mad Ringer won't accept his writing packet
 
2022-05-26 2:34:56 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-26 2:35:44 PM  
It's an NBA thread, so it must be time to complain about irrelevant non-solutions/non-problems.

1) Defenses today are better than they have been at any point in NBA history. Fouling people is not defense.
2) The question has nothing to do with dominance of teams. The Dallas/Phoenix series went 7 games and resulted in an upset, yet every game was non-competitive and Game 7 was over by the end of the first quarter.
3) The season could be shorter, but that's not affecting this. Nor is it a solution for anything, since it will just cost everyone involved a lot of money.
 
2022-05-26 2:38:44 PM  
For Heat/Celtics, I really think it's just that both teams are so beat up that when one gets a big lead the other gives up for a night and tries to save energy for the next game.

Last night at one point you had Marcus Smart and Rob Williams who could barely hobble down the floor, and Tatum with his arm hanging like it was numb.  The Heat seem like they are in the same boat too.  Herro's out and Lowry and Butler are playing hurt.
 
2022-05-26 2:38:48 PM  

LewDux: [Fark user image image 792x278]


I like a league where there are a mix of competitive styles. Shooting threes has proven to be too successful and something needs to be done to allow for a mix.

I liked the solution of allowing teams to set their own three-point lines each season. Then they can build rosters around that and it makes for a more interesting sport.

Obviously, if it turns out that it creates too much of a home-court advantage, then tweak from there.
 
2022-05-26 2:43:02 PM  

tom baker's scarf: if you aren't allowed to play defense then there is no incentive to not go with maximum offense.

they got what they wanted and it's their faults for not being able to see the entirely predictable outcome.


Celtics/Heat has been all defense.  It was 93-80 last night.
 
2022-05-26 2:45:18 PM  

LewDux: [Fark user image image 792x278]


The 90s fans thing was not an actual complaint until '98, when there was a lockout and everyone came back out of shape and Jordan wasn't there and Magic and Bird were already gone and Pippen, Barkley, Malone, Stockton etc. were either old or gone.

Part of the reason Jordan was able to be so dominant is that there was really no generation of greats coming into the league to challenge him at his peak - all his playoff antagonists were even older than he was, for the most part. So those guys went away and we got a generation of guys who wanted to be like Mike (ball-hogging superstars) but didn't have his talent or drive. That led to the boringness of '00s basketball
 
2022-05-26 2:46:16 PM  

IAmRight: LewDux: [Fark user image image 792x278]

I like a league where there are a mix of competitive styles. Shooting threes has proven to be too successful and something needs to be done to allow for a mix.

I liked the solution of allowing teams to set their own three-point lines each season. Then they can build rosters around that and it makes for a more interesting sport.

Obviously, if it turns out that it creates too much of a home-court advantage, then tweak from there.


Maybe a limit on threes point baskets? Not number of shots but number of makes
 
2022-05-26 2:48:11 PM  
The Elam Ending, which would improve the end of the game in close games (which is the primary reason for the rule), could also at least give a team being blown out a chance to win w/o the clock being a factor.

TBT has done it for awhile, and the NBA tried it in the ASG the last few years.

I don't know that I'd do it the was the ASG did (They completely got rid of the clock in the 4th, and the 4th quarter was basically get to the leaders score +25), so, also gets rid of OT, which is something the network might like (they like it when sports are more or less guaranteed to end at a certain point).   TBT turns off the clock on the first dead ball after the 4 min left mark in the 4th, and adds 8 to the leaders score as the target mark.  I like the TBT way better myself, although you could go with something in the middle too (maybe 6 minute mark and +12, etc).

Yes, a team that is losing by 25 with 4 minutes left in the 4th isn't likely going to run off a 33-7 run without any clock to stop them, but, it is more likely that making up 25 points in 4 minutes.
 
2022-05-26 2:54:36 PM  
I kinda boffed part of my post... really ANY use to Elam ending gets rid of "OT"... the +# based on the number of minutes when you turn off the clock is generally based on how many points would be scored by a team in those many minutes on average, so, the game shouldn't take much more time than usual to end (also you don't have the intentional fouling which is what slows down the end of games).

It would help the NBA & College Basketball with slow end of games, blowouts, staying within their timeslots, etc.

It would help high school basketball (where most teams don't play with a shot clock, at least around here), since then a team couldn't pass the ball around late and sit on even a moderate lead.

Unfortunately, it is such a radical change that it is hard for many to get their heads around it, but, when you look at all the positives, it really makes a whole lot of sense.
 
2022-05-26 2:56:58 PM  
The last round was great, we shall see what happens in the Finals. I'll still watch.
 
2022-05-26 3:04:28 PM  

IAmRight: LewDux: [Fark user image image 792x278]


Part of the reason Jordan was able to be so dominant is that there was really no generation of greats coming into the league to challenge him at his peak - all his playoff antagonists were even older than he was, for the most part. So those guys went away and we got a generation of guys who wanted to be like Mike (ball-hogging superstars) but didn't have his talent or drive. That led to the boringness of '00s basketball


also helps when he could carry the ball, no one could get w/in several ft of him w./o risking a defensive foul, and nearly nothing he did would draw an offensive foul. the league basically instituted a "if you are a star you can do what you want" policy.  other players saw it and thought "I wanna be like Mike."
 
2022-05-26 3:22:06 PM  

tom baker's scarf: also helps when he could carry the ball, no one could get w/in several ft of him w./o risking a defensive foul, and nearly nothing he did would draw an offensive foul. the league basically instituted a "if you are a star you can do what you want" policy.  other players saw it and thought "I wanna be like Mike."


THIS.  In today's NBA, 95% of Mike's possessions would get called for a travel.  They have zero tolerance.

Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-26 3:25:21 PM  
What's up with people that don't like or watch basketball, and will probably never like or watch basketball, constantly criticizing basketball?
 
2022-05-26 3:48:37 PM  

TheJoe03: What's up with people that don't like or watch basketball, and will probably never like or watch basketball, constantly criticizing basketball?


i used to watch basketball constantly but when every game became an All Star game it quit being fun so i quit watching.
 
2022-05-26 3:50:36 PM  

FLMountainMan: tom baker's scarf: also helps when he could carry the ball, no one could get w/in several ft of him w./o risking a defensive foul, and nearly nothing he did would draw an offensive foul. the league basically instituted a "if you are a star you can do what you want" policy.  other players saw it and thought "I wanna be like Mike."

THIS.  In today's NBA, 95% of Mike's possessions would get called for a travel.  They have zero tolerance.

[Fark user image 446x314] [View Full Size image _x_]
[Fark user image 640x320] [View Full Size image _x_]


honestly, he worst part of the second gif is that the defender has to keep backing up lest he risk getting called for a foul.  if he was allowed to step to #8 he never could have traveled.
 
2022-05-26 4:09:44 PM  

IAmRight: It's an NBA thread, so it must be time to complain about irrelevant non-solutions/non-problems.

1) Defenses today are better than they have been at any point in NBA history. Fouling people is not defense.
2) The question has nothing to do with dominance of teams. The Dallas/Phoenix series went 7 games and resulted in an upset, yet every game was non-competitive and Game 7 was over by the end of the first quarter.
3) The season could be shorter, but that's not affecting this. Nor is it a solution for anything, since it will just cost everyone involved a lot of money.


Hmm. Because my next answer was gonna be contraction.  Less Teams, less games, fresher players = better product for fans, but I know those are non starters.
 
2022-05-26 4:20:36 PM  

tom baker's scarf: TheJoe03: What's up with people that don't like or watch basketball, and will probably never like or watch basketball, constantly criticizing basketball?

i used to watch basketball constantly but when every game became an All Star game it quit being fun so i quit watching.


That's cool, game passed you by, it happens. I haven't seen a title team play bad defense probably ever, but ya know, narratives.
 
2022-05-26 4:29:13 PM  
Literally the four teams in the conference finals all play good defense.
 
2022-05-26 4:33:48 PM  
The great thing about a blowout is that the final 2 minutes only take a little over 2 minutes. The worst are when a team is down by 5 or 6 points. I've got various solutions for that - like if you're in the bonus, shooting fouls are an extra free throw, all other fouls are a free throw and you retain possession. Inbound at mid court with a new shot clock. Alternately, if you're in the bonus, you can elect to have the shot clock run off in addition to your free throws.

Now, if you think there are too many 3s in the modern NBA, there are some solutions to that as well. Shrink the hoop by an inch or two. That would definitely bring back the inside game.
 
2022-05-26 4:41:36 PM  

NewWorldDan: The great thing about a blowout is that the final 2 minutes only take a little over 2 minutes. The worst are when a team is down by 5 or 6 points. I've got various solutions for that - like if you're in the bonus, shooting fouls are an extra free throw, all other fouls are a free throw and you retain possession. Inbound at mid court with a new shot clock. Alternately, if you're in the bonus, you can elect to have the shot clock run off in addition to your free throws.

Now, if you think there are too many 3s in the modern NBA, there are some solutions to that as well. Shrink the hoop by an inch or two. That would definitely bring back the inside game.


It's the midrange that's fading away, inside shots are still considered highly efficient by analytic people.
 
2022-05-26 4:42:27 PM  
The issue with the NBA is always the refs and yeah the aforementioned end of game fouling.
 
2022-05-26 5:23:46 PM  

IAmRight: It's an NBA thread, so it must be time to complain about irrelevant non-solutions/non-problems.

1) Defenses today are better than they have been at any point in NBA history. Fouling people is not defense.


No.  The rules have changed.  What you're calling a "foul" was not a foul then, according to the rules.  Is this that hard to understand?  It's different.

Similarly, they call offensive fouls a lot more now (which they really need to stop doing because the flopping is getting absurd).
 
2022-05-26 5:28:55 PM  

TheJoe03: Literally the four teams in the conference finals all play good defense.


Yep.  The flukes will always be there.  The Suns of seasons past.  But they rarely get to the Finals and they never win championships.  And similarly the ISO ball teams - the Mavericks, the Nuggets, and whatever teams Harden or Westbrook are on - always flame out.

The Warriors play beautiful basketball.  The Heat are as gritty as most teams from the 90s.  It's a good product.  The personalities are annoying (the players seem more miserable than ever despite getting more rest and ridiculous salaries), but the game itself is still exciting.
 
2022-05-26 5:31:35 PM  

tom baker's scarf: FLMountainMan: tom baker's scarf: also helps when he could carry the ball, no one could get w/in several ft of him w./o risking a defensive foul, and nearly nothing he did would draw an offensive foul. the league basically instituted a "if you are a star you can do what you want" policy.  other players saw it and thought "I wanna be like Mike."

THIS.  In today's NBA, 95% of Mike's possessions would get called for a travel.  They have zero tolerance.

[Fark user image 446x314] [View Full Size image _x_]
[Fark user image 640x320] [View Full Size image _x_]

honestly, he worst part of the second gif is that the defender has to keep backing up lest he risk getting called for a foul.  if he was allowed to step to #8 he never could have traveled.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-26 5:45:32 PM  

Killer Cars: TDWCom29: Is it really that difficult for ol' submitter to realize why a lot of blowouts might be a bad thing for basketball? At least in terms of ratings

I'm pretty sure subby is just milking this stupid meme of "take any article from The Ringer and make up a headline that implies every single staff contributor is either (a) a dumb frat boy (b) pop culture clout chaser or (c) BILL SIMMONS BOSTON HOMER" regardless of its content.

I greatly preferred Grantland too, but Grantland had the initial benefit of being intended as something of a prestige site that Bill Simmons charmed old ESPN leadership into supporting in which actual revenue and click generation was NOT the goal, and once the old guard was pushed out (and Simmons being Simmons annoyed just about anyone he answered to) that was its death knell.

And let's just say Spotify would not be supportive of The Ringer deciding to cut back on podcasts and reintroduce more meandering (but usually decent) long form articles.


The Ringer has great podcasts in my opinion, the articles are kinda meh but that's just me.  YMMV and all...
 
2022-05-26 8:08:31 PM  

tom baker's scarf: FLMountainMan: tom baker's scarf: also helps when he could carry the ball, no one could get w/in several ft of him w./o risking a defensive foul, and nearly nothing he did would draw an offensive foul. the league basically instituted a "if you are a star you can do what you want" policy.  other players saw it and thought "I wanna be like Mike."

THIS.  In today's NBA, 95% of Mike's possessions would get called for a travel.  They have zero tolerance.

[Fark user image 446x314] [View Full Size image _x_]
[Fark user image 640x320] [View Full Size image _x_]

honestly, he worst part of the second gif is that the defender has to keep backing up lest he risk getting called for a foul.  if he was allowed to step to #8 he never could have traveled.


It's also not a travel. Dellavedova does a good job of not establishing control. He just kinda has his hand next to the ball as part of the ball's natural motion. They don't call you for traveling based on when the ball first touches your hand.

/the LeBron one seemed like one of those that occasionally happens where as a ref you're probably not paying close attention yet 'cause no one's close to anyone, then you see it and you're like "did I just see something THAT absurd? Nah."
 
2022-05-26 8:12:01 PM  

FLMountainMan: IAmRight: It's an NBA thread, so it must be time to complain about irrelevant non-solutions/non-problems.

1) Defenses today are better than they have been at any point in NBA history. Fouling people is not defense.

No.  The rules have changed.  What you're calling a "foul" was not a foul then, according to the rules.  Is this that hard to understand?  It's different.

Similarly, they call offensive fouls a lot more now (which they really need to stop doing because the flopping is getting absurd).


That's fair. Although they do still let bigs get hacked without fouls. Now it's just a case of gently grazing a shooter's arm, even after the shot is away? That's a foul.

/agree that the charges can go away a lot, too, tired of defense being running to get somewhere so you can fall down instead of actually trying to make a stop
 
2022-05-27 4:13:46 AM  
The Bucks took the Celtics to seven games when the Celtics had the lead in the last minute of six of those games.
 
2022-05-27 8:31:59 AM  

IAmRight: tom baker's scarf: FLMountainMan: tom baker's scarf: also helps when he could carry the ball, no one could get w/in several ft of him w./o risking a defensive foul, and nearly nothing he did would draw an offensive foul. the league basically instituted a "if you are a star you can do what you want" policy.  other players saw it and thought "I wanna be like Mike."

THIS.  In today's NBA, 95% of Mike's possessions would get called for a travel.  They have zero tolerance.

[Fark user image 446x314] [View Full Size image _x_]
[Fark user image 640x320] [View Full Size image _x_]

honestly, he worst part of the second gif is that the defender has to keep backing up lest he risk getting called for a foul.  if he was allowed to step to #8 he never could have traveled.

It's also not a travel. Dellavedova does a good job of not establishing control. He just kinda has his hand next to the ball as part of the ball's natural motion. They don't call you for traveling based on when the ball first touches your hand.

/the LeBron one seemed like one of those that occasionally happens where as a ref you're probably not paying close attention yet 'cause no one's close to anyone, then you see it and you're like "did I just see something THAT absurd? Nah."


Are we watching the same gif?  Delladova has the ball in the palm of his hand.  He's intentionally moving it and controlling it.  He's looking away from it, because he has complete control of it.  He fakes a pass, because he's controlling the ball.  In what world is that not a travel?
 
2022-05-27 8:48:49 AM  

ghostfacekillahrabbit: The Bucks took the Celtics to seven games when the Celtics had the lead in the last minute of six of those games.


Facts have no place in the daily "The NBA has gone to shiat" argument.
 
2022-05-27 9:38:02 AM  

FLMountainMan: IAmRight: tom baker's scarf: FLMountainMan: tom baker's scarf: also helps when he could carry the ball, no one could get w/in several ft of him w./o risking a defensive foul, and nearly nothing he did would draw an offensive foul. the league basically instituted a "if you are a star you can do what you want" policy.  other players saw it and thought "I wanna be like Mike."

THIS.  In today's NBA, 95% of Mike's possessions would get called for a travel.  They have zero tolerance.

[Fark user image 446x314] [View Full Size image _x_]
[Fark user image 640x320] [View Full Size image _x_]

honestly, he worst part of the second gif is that the defender has to keep backing up lest he risk getting called for a foul.  if he was allowed to step to #8 he never could have traveled.

It's also not a travel. Dellavedova does a good job of not establishing control. He just kinda has his hand next to the ball as part of the ball's natural motion. They don't call you for traveling based on when the ball first touches your hand.

/the LeBron one seemed like one of those that occasionally happens where as a ref you're probably not paying close attention yet 'cause no one's close to anyone, then you see it and you're like "did I just see something THAT absurd? Nah."

Are we watching the same gif?  Delladova has the ball in the palm of his hand.  He's intentionally moving it and controlling it.  He's looking away from it, because he has complete control of it.  He fakes a pass, because he's controlling the ball.  In what world is that not a travel?


in the same world where someone thinks "Literally the four teams in the conference finals all play good defense"

they play the defense they are allowed to play but it isn't good and that is a travel by any standard except that the refs can't call it because following the rules may slow down the game and as we all know it can't be a good game unless the combined score is at least 225 points.
 
2022-05-27 1:12:26 PM  

tom baker's scarf: they play the defense they are allowed to play but it isn't good and that is a travel by any standard except that the refs can't call it because following the rules may slow down the game and as we all know it can't be a good game unless the combined score is at least 225 points.


fark people like you are tedious. How many IU towels does it take to wipe you down after typing that?
 
2022-05-27 1:16:51 PM  

tom baker's scarf: FLMountainMan: IAmRight: tom baker's scarf: FLMountainMan: tom baker's scarf: also helps when he could carry the ball, no one could get w/in several ft of him w./o risking a defensive foul, and nearly nothing he did would draw an offensive foul. the league basically instituted a "if you are a star you can do what you want" policy.  other players saw it and thought "I wanna be like Mike."

THIS.  In today's NBA, 95% of Mike's possessions would get called for a travel.  They have zero tolerance.

[Fark user image 446x314] [View Full Size image _x_]
[Fark user image 640x320] [View Full Size image _x_]

honestly, he worst part of the second gif is that the defender has to keep backing up lest he risk getting called for a foul.  if he was allowed to step to #8 he never could have traveled.

It's also not a travel. Dellavedova does a good job of not establishing control. He just kinda has his hand next to the ball as part of the ball's natural motion. They don't call you for traveling based on when the ball first touches your hand.

/the LeBron one seemed like one of those that occasionally happens where as a ref you're probably not paying close attention yet 'cause no one's close to anyone, then you see it and you're like "did I just see something THAT absurd? Nah."

Are we watching the same gif?  Delladova has the ball in the palm of his hand.  He's intentionally moving it and controlling it.  He's looking away from it, because he has complete control of it.  He fakes a pass, because he's controlling the ball.  In what world is that not a travel?

in the same world where someone thinks "Literally the four teams in the conference finals all play good defense"

they play the defense they are allowed to play but it isn't good and that is a travel by any standard except that the refs can't call it because following the rules may slow down the game and as we all know it can't be a good game unless the combined score is at least 225 points.


Didn't have the balls to address me directly or something?
 
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