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(Bangor Daily News)   Susan Collins is very concerned about guns. So concerned that she wants Congress to emulate a Maine law to take away guns from dangerous people... a law that's only been used 13 times   (bangordailynews.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Law, United States Congress, possibility of a federal version of a Maine law, Firearm, Maine, Gun, Sen. Susan Collins, law enforcement  
•       •       •

602 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 May 2022 at 6:42 AM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-05-26 1:35:14 AM  
That is an encouraging statistic. It's almost half the population.
 
2022-05-26 6:48:28 AM  
Is this one of those sensible red flag laws that won't get passed anyway because of "muh rights."
 
2022-05-26 6:58:06 AM  
Right about now everyone in this country should be furious that the SCOTUS is more than happy to say out loud that the ruling of RvW was wrong, but refuses to even consider how badly the 2nd amendment has been interpreted.

It's pretty widely considered that the amendment was written at a time when military assault rifles hadn't even been dreamed of.  Yet the current interpretation includes those weapons.

The side effect of this is that an 18 kid can legally purchase one of these murder weapons, plus a ton of ammo, then do it again in a couple of days, and no one cares or notices.  The result of which is 19 children who were torn to shreds by those murder weapons.

Sure we can blame the mental health.  Sure we can blame the missed signs.  But since we know those things are prevalent in this society, maybe it's time to make sure that these missed signs aren't allowed to buy weapons.  Take them OFF the farking market unless you can figure out a way to make sure they are only sold to people for the right reasons.  And, btw, there are no right reasons that a citizen needs one of those.

It is long past time to revisit the second amendment.  And it's also time to get rid of lawmakers who do not think that.

I am embarrassed and ashamed by this country.  If you are proud to be an American right now, you must have your head pretty far up your ass.
 
2022-05-26 7:02:04 AM  
That's like 3% of the people in Maine.
 
2022-05-26 7:02:27 AM  
Way too little way too late.
 
2022-05-26 7:05:15 AM  
If Susan Collins brow furrowing could create energy, it would be able to power the entire East Coast for centuries.  In reality, her brow furrowing is just useless
 
2022-05-26 7:08:55 AM  
13 times, in Maine. Lot more off the grid crazy people there. Apply it nationwide and you'd probably get 10x that many in the first year alone

/We have a mental health and gun problem
 
2022-05-26 7:10:18 AM  
Wait, "Chair of the Aging Senate Committee?" January 3, 2015 - February 3, 2021

WTF?!!!

I was hoping to read she might have children who have made her turn in her driver's license.
 
2022-05-26 7:19:45 AM  
Then when it passes the House and moves to the Senate, she will vote against it in lockstep with the rest of her party.
 
2022-05-26 7:27:21 AM  

durbnpoisn: Right about now everyone in this country should be furious that the SCOTUS is more than happy to say out loud that the ruling of RvW was wrong, but refuses to even consider how badly the 2nd amendment has been interpreted.

It's pretty widely considered that the amendment was written at a time when military assault rifles hadn't even been dreamed of.  Yet the current interpretation includes those weapons.

The side effect of this is that an 18 kid can legally purchase one of these murder weapons, plus a ton of ammo, then do it again in a couple of days, and no one cares or notices.  The result of which is 19 children who were torn to shreds by those murder weapons.

Sure we can blame the mental health.  Sure we can blame the missed signs.  But since we know those things are prevalent in this society, maybe it's time to make sure that these missed signs aren't allowed to buy weapons.  Take them OFF the farking market unless you can figure out a way to make sure they are only sold to people for the right reasons.  And, btw, there are no right reasons that a citizen needs one of those.

It is long past time to revisit the second amendment.  And it's also time to get rid of lawmakers who do not think that.

I am embarrassed and ashamed by this country.  If you are proud to be an American right now, you must have your head pretty far up your ass.


Not even so much AR's as first repeaters and then automatic weapons in general.  At that time few could conceive of how much firepower (and how quickly it could be used) that put into one person's hands.  At the time the few primitive automatic ancestors that existed like Puckle guns were in no way one person portable/fireable, at least not without tons of preparation and being ultra-obvious about what's happening, Even the few repeaters that existed at the time were finicky as hell and considered curiosities more than they were anything some schmoe would turn up with, even on the battlefield.

/it'd be like us trying to write sensible laws and regulations considering disruptor rays or vibroblades or some such equally science fiction-y crap
//you can't conceive of the real problems and necessary constraints until you know what you've got and what it can do
///trying to base everything off a 200 year old perception of the limits of one person's damage capacity is pretty farking silly
 
2022-05-26 7:28:51 AM  
In Florida, after the Orlando shooting in 2016 and the Parkland shootings in 2018, we enacted a "red flag" law that lets law enforcement petition a court to suspend a person's rights to own or buy firearms due to threats or mental illness.

Florida courts have approved that over 6,000.  And we haven't had a big mass shooting event like Parkland since.  Also our relative murder rate has dropped... we are 27 out of 52 now (inc. PR and DC).  When the law was enacted we were 23 out of 52.

I think red flag laws work.  And so do both the R's and the D's in the Florida legislature.

upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
2022-05-26 7:38:50 AM  
No one represents her constituents better than Collins.

She's just as farking backward, cheap, mean, racist and stupid as the people who lovingly buy her "County Girl" tripe.
 
2022-05-26 7:41:20 AM  
Maine doesn't even require that you have a permit to buy or possess a handgun. All you need is a driving licence and you can get a murder weapon no questions asked.
 
2022-05-26 7:49:03 AM  

SomeAmerican: I think red flag laws work.  And so do both the R's and the D's in the Florida legislature.


Red flag laws work the same way a tourniquet works.  They're both effective in stopping the bleeding.  But they're not the actual solution.
 
2022-05-26 7:52:23 AM  

durbnpoisn: Right about now everyone in this country should be furious that the SCOTUS is more than happy to say out loud that the ruling of RvW was wrong, but refuses to even consider how badly the 2nd amendment has been interpreted.


Because a third of the current court was responsible for that abominable interpretation.
 
2022-05-26 7:56:06 AM  
Hey, maybe it prevented 13 mass shootings. It's not exactly a solution to the problem, but it is better than nothing.

And frankly, it is stunning that Congress and all 50 States do not already have red flag laws.
 
2022-05-26 7:56:09 AM  
"if a medical professional determines that a person with a mental health condition poses a significant threat to themselves or others."

Wait so the law ONLY applies to people with a previously diagnosed mental illness? That's.... SO stupid.
 
2022-05-26 7:56:12 AM  
If it preventd half as many mass shootings, I'm down with it.

At least it's moving in the right direction. Unlike States like Texas, who see a mass shooting and immediately institute open carry laws so incels can take there AR to Walmart
 
2022-05-26 7:56:59 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


The DC v. Heller decision was a disgrace, along with so many other Roberts Court decisions that we will be living (and dying) with for generations at least. Thanks, protest- and non-voters for not wanting to get "political" about things.
 
2022-05-26 7:59:08 AM  

heavymetal: Then when it passes the House and moves to the Senate, she will vote against it in lockstep with the rest of her party.


SPOILERS!!!
 
2022-05-26 8:00:12 AM  
Eventually, inflation will make ammo too expensive to use anyway.
 
2022-05-26 8:02:44 AM  

SomeAmerican: In Florida, after the Orlando shooting in 2016 and the Parkland shootings in 2018, we enacted a "red flag" law that lets law enforcement petition a court to suspend a person's rights to own or buy firearms due to threats or mental illness.

Florida courts have approved that over 6,000.  And we haven't had a big mass shooting event like Parkland since.  Also our relative murder rate has dropped... we are 27 out of 52 now (inc. PR and DC).  When the law was enacted we were 23 out of 52.

I think red flag laws work.  And so do both the R's and the D's in the Florida legislature.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x420]


It shouldn't matter what it's due to, whether threats, mental illness, or anything else.

Any national red flag law should be agnostic to the underlying cause of a person's violent tendencies.
 
2022-05-26 8:03:11 AM  
It's been about a decade since I was in Maine, but I remember that the top story on the Bangor nightly news was a burglary.  I just don't think a lot goes on there.
 
2022-05-26 8:10:18 AM  
We MUST start somewhere. Pass any f*cking thing to start. Show that we can pass something and then move for more. If you think we're going to get some massive ban all at once, you're out of your mind.

We need to get these things Republicans MIGHT allow, and then push for more.

You need to rack up small wins to start and build on that.

Because then you get these assholes passing nothing saying their usual "Well, this specific bill would not help."

Start with something, anything.
 
2022-05-26 8:12:56 AM  

durbnpoisn: Right about now everyone in this country should be furious that the SCOTUS is more than happy to say out loud that the ruling of RvW was wrong, but refuses to even consider how badly the 2nd amendment has been interpreted.

It's pretty widely considered that the amendment was written at a time when military assault rifles hadn't even been dreamed of.  Yet the current interpretation includes those weapons.

The side effect of this is that an 18 kid can legally purchase one of these murder weapons, plus a ton of ammo, then do it again in a couple of days, and no one cares or notices.  The result of which is 19 children who were torn to shreds by those murder weapons.

Sure we can blame the mental health.  Sure we can blame the missed signs.  But since we know those things are prevalent in this society, maybe it's time to make sure that these missed signs aren't allowed to buy weapons.  Take them OFF the farking market unless you can figure out a way to make sure they are only sold to people for the right reasons.  And, btw, there are no right reasons that a citizen needs one of those.

It is long past time to revisit the second amendment.  And it's also time to get rid of lawmakers who do not think that.

I am embarrassed and ashamed by this country.  If you are proud to be an American right now, you must have your head pretty far up your ass.


"...in the state militia."

The basic principle of statutory interpretation is that courts should "give effect, if possible, to every clause and word of a statute, avoiding, if it may be, any construction which implies that the legislature was ignorant of the meaning of the language it employed." The modern variant is that statutes should be construed "so as to avoid rendering superfluous" any statutory language: "A statute should be construed so that effect is given to all its provisions, so that no part will be inoperative or superfluous, void or insignificant....

Citations:
Hibbs v. Winn, 542 U.S. 88, 101 (2004) (quoted in Corley v. United States, 556 U.S. 303, 314 (2009)); Astoria Federal Savings & Loan Ass'n v. Solimino, 501 U.S. 104, 112 (1991); Sprietsma v. Mercury Marine, 537 U.S. 51, 63 (2003) (interpreting word "law" broadly could render word "regulation" superfluous in preemption clause applicable to a state "law or regulation"). See also Bailey v. United States, 516 U.S. 137, 146 (1995) ("We assume that Congress used two terms because it intended each term to have a particular, nonsuperfluous meaning.")
 
2022-05-26 8:23:58 AM  

mediaho: [Fark user image image 850x710]

The DC v. Heller decision was a disgrace, along with so many other Roberts Court decisions that we will be living (and dying) with for generations at least. Thanks, protest- and non-voters for not wanting to get "political" about things.


Of course that's not what Heller decided, as fully-automatic firearms are still tightly regulated.  That standard could be applied to semi-automatic firearms as well, but it's political will, not Heller that's preventing that.
 
2022-05-26 8:25:53 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: SomeAmerican: I think red flag laws work.  And so do both the R's and the D's in the Florida legislature.

Red flag laws work the same way a tourniquet works.  They're both effective in stopping the bleeding.  But they're not the actual solution.


Right, they're a step towards managing the problem, but not a full solution in a single step.

So. They're good. In an iterative capacity. So... useful.
 
2022-05-26 8:28:55 AM  

educated: Marcus Aurelius: SomeAmerican: I think red flag laws work.  And so do both the R's and the D's in the Florida legislature.

Red flag laws work the same way a tourniquet works.  They're both effective in stopping the bleeding.  But they're not the actual solution.

Right, they're a step towards managing the problem, but not a full solution in a single step.

So. They're good. In an iterative capacity. So... useful.


We all know that incrementalism is for moderates/centrists/Nazis...
 
2022-05-26 8:29:48 AM  

GoldSpider: educated: Marcus Aurelius: SomeAmerican: I think red flag laws work.  And so do both the R's and the D's in the Florida legislature.

Red flag laws work the same way a tourniquet works.  They're both effective in stopping the bleeding.  But they're not the actual solution.

Right, they're a step towards managing the problem, but not a full solution in a single step.

So. They're good. In an iterative capacity. So... useful.

We all know that incrementalism is for moderates/centrists/Nazis...


Oops!
My bad!

Carry on!
 
2022-05-26 8:33:23 AM  

durbnpoisn: Right about now everyone in this country should be furious that the SCOTUS is more than happy to say out loud that the ruling of RvW was wrong, but refuses to even consider how badly the 2nd amendment has been interpreted.

It's pretty widely considered that the amendment was written at a time when military assault rifles hadn't even been dreamed of.  Yet the current interpretation includes those weapons.

The side effect of this is that an 18 kid can legally purchase one of these murder weapons, plus a ton of ammo, then do it again in a couple of days, and no one cares or notices.  The result of which is 19 children who were torn to shreds by those murder weapons.

Sure we can blame the mental health.  Sure we can blame the missed signs.  But since we know those things are prevalent in this society, maybe it's time to make sure that these missed signs aren't allowed to buy weapons.  Take them OFF the farking market unless you can figure out a way to make sure they are only sold to people for the right reasons.  And, btw, there are no right reasons that a citizen needs one of those.

It is long past time to revisit the second amendment.  And it's also time to get rid of lawmakers who do not think that.

I am embarrassed and ashamed by this country.  If you are proud to be an American right now, you must have your head pretty far up your ass.


You are correct (at least from my point of view), but now what?  The current state of gun laws (and abortion and lots of other issues) results from consistent and concerted efforts over the past 50 years.  Day in and day out, through eight years of Clinton and eight years of Obama.  Fifty years of grinding by the far right.  Never being defeated by lost elections or judicial decisions that didn't go their way.  Five decades of grooming candidates and jurists, trading favors with favorable media, lying, cheating and stealing - that's what it took to get where we are now.  You want to change that course?  Great, but understand you WILL NOT see any sort of major change for 10 or 20 or 30 or maybe even 50 years.  And all the while, you and I and everyone like us has to put in the work.  Not for a few weeks before elections, but all the time.  Constantly.  Get to know your senators, your reps, your county council, your local dog catcher, etc.  Go to school board meetings, council meetings, candidate meet and greets, etc.  Donate what you can when you can, money and especially time.  Take notes.  Write letters.  Publish.  Learn the "tricks" of politics and persuasion and get comfortable using them.  Be ruthless.  Keep that up for a few decades, all the while teaching others to do the same, and maybe in a generation's time, we'll start seeing results.  If you'll only be satisfied if "something" is done this year or next year, you'll never be satisfied.  This is a long game, and while you have to have faith that the arc of history favors progressive causes in the long run, you have to work constantly like it's an investment in your kids' and grandkids' future.  You have to plant, protect and care for a tree who's shade you'll never sit in.
 
2022-05-26 8:48:08 AM  
When I went to work yesterday everyone had this look on their face like they knew they should feel something but they just couldn't remember what it was or what good it would do.
 
2022-05-26 8:50:05 AM  
In the US, in order to buy Sudafed, you have to be 18, show your id, and have your name added to a list of people who bought Sudafed. Not only that, there are limits to how much Sudafed a person can buy in a month. All because rednecks made shiatty meth with it.

But in the US, an efficient murder machine and ammunition can be bought without such constraints. What a country.

Have allergies and need your congestion relieved? You're treated like you're gonna make meth. want to shoot up a school full of kids? No problem.
 
2022-05-26 8:56:52 AM  

mediaho: [Fark user image image 850x710]

The DC v. Heller decision was a disgrace, along with so many other Roberts Court decisions that we will be living (and dying) with for generations at least. Thanks, protest- and non-voters for not wanting to get "political" about things.


If you're going to pick a fight, at least pick one you can win.
 
2022-05-26 9:03:29 AM  
The entire human race has had a mental health problem since consciousness appeared.  Those meatbags can't be trusted with such weapons.
 
2022-05-26 9:04:11 AM  

GoldSpider: educated: Marcus Aurelius: SomeAmerican: I think red flag laws work.  And so do both the R's and the D's in the Florida legislature.

Red flag laws work the same way a tourniquet works.  They're both effective in stopping the bleeding.  But they're not the actual solution.

Right, they're a step towards managing the problem, but not a full solution in a single step.

So. They're good. In an iterative capacity. So... useful.

We all know that incrementalism is for moderates/centrists/Nazis...


Quick point of clarity though - is iterative progress for nazis because it is how the republican party successfully whittled away our right to reproductive care over the last 5 decades and is what has placed them currently at the point of successfully overturning our bodily autonomy/right to privacy and we consider them nazis?

Is that why?

I'd like to make sure I understand for future arguments on the internet (which have never solved sh*t either, come to think of it, iterative or not)
 
2022-05-26 9:08:14 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-26 9:08:58 AM  

SomeAmerican: In Florida, after the Orlando shooting in 2016 and the Parkland shootings in 2018, we enacted a "red flag" law that lets law enforcement petition a court to suspend a person's rights to own or buy firearms due to threats or mental illness.

Florida courts have approved that over 6,000.  And we haven't had a big mass shooting event like Parkland since.  Also our relative murder rate has dropped... we are 27 out of 52 now (inc. PR and DC).  When the law was enacted we were 23 out of 52.

I think red flag laws work.  And so do both the R's and the D's in the Florida legislature.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x420]


So,... you're saying Florida *can* do something right?

Mind.  Blown.

/ seriously - that's good news and other states would do well to implement the same.
 
2022-05-26 9:26:26 AM  

educated: GoldSpider: educated: Marcus Aurelius: SomeAmerican: I think red flag laws work.  And so do both the R's and the D's in the Florida legislature.

Red flag laws work the same way a tourniquet works.  They're both effective in stopping the bleeding.  But they're not the actual solution.

Right, they're a step towards managing the problem, but not a full solution in a single step.

So. They're good. In an iterative capacity. So... useful.

We all know that incrementalism is for moderates/centrists/Nazis...

Quick point of clarity though - is iterative progress for nazis because it is how the republican party successfully whittled away our right to reproductive care over the last 5 decades and is what has placed them currently at the point of successfully overturning our bodily autonomy/right to privacy and we consider them nazis?

Is that why?

I'd like to make sure I understand for future arguments on the internet (which have never solved sh*t either, come to think of it, iterative or not)


It's much simpler than that.  If progressives don't get everything they want right now, it's because the "filthy centrists" are working towards the same ideological goals as the Nazis.

If it doesn't make any sense to you, you're on the right track.
 
2022-05-26 9:42:40 AM  

GoldSpider: educated: GoldSpider: educated: Marcus Aurelius: SomeAmerican: I think red flag laws work.  And so do both the R's and the D's in the Florida legislature.

Red flag laws work the same way a tourniquet works.  They're both effective in stopping the bleeding.  But they're not the actual solution.

Right, they're a step towards managing the problem, but not a full solution in a single step.

So. They're good. In an iterative capacity. So... useful.

We all know that incrementalism is for moderates/centrists/Nazis...

Quick point of clarity though - is iterative progress for nazis because it is how the republican party successfully whittled away our right to reproductive care over the last 5 decades and is what has placed them currently at the point of successfully overturning our bodily autonomy/right to privacy and we consider them nazis?

Is that why?

I'd like to make sure I understand for future arguments on the internet (which have never solved sh*t either, come to think of it, iterative or not)

It's much simpler than that.  If progressives don't get everything they want right now, it's because the "filthy centrists" are working towards the same ideological goals as the Nazis.

If it doesn't make any sense to you, you're on the right track.


Adorable.

Wanting change is juvenile. And by your own admission incremental change isn't enough. But demanding larger steps than the minimum effort is just magical thinking.
 
2022-05-26 9:45:39 AM  
If shooting sprees are because of mental health issues then we need to adopt universal healthcare because everybody else has mental health issues but not shooting sprees.  Somehow the rest of he modern world has figured out how to keep their crazies from gunning down dozens of people at a time.

So which is it, Right-Wing Nutjobs, should we adopt universal healthcare or gun control?  One of those has to be why France, Germany, England, Norway, Finland, Austria, Italy, Spain, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Korea, etc. etc., etc., have mental health issues just like us but don't have mass murders every 2 or 3 days.  You keep saying it's a mental health problem and you'll end up talking yourself into socialized medicine.
 
2022-05-26 9:51:20 AM  

educated: Marcus Aurelius: SomeAmerican: I think red flag laws work.  And so do both the R's and the D's in the Florida legislature.

Red flag laws work the same way a tourniquet works.  They're both effective in stopping the bleeding.  But they're not the actual solution.

Right, they're a step towards managing the problem, but not a full solution in a single step.

So. They're good. In an iterative capacity. So... useful.


And that's how you do it.  There's no single solution.  It's a holistic problem.
 
2022-05-26 9:51:51 AM  

Night Train to Wakanda: GoldSpider: educated: GoldSpider: educated: Marcus Aurelius: SomeAmerican: I think red flag laws work.  And so do both the R's and the D's in the Florida legislature.

Red flag laws work the same way a tourniquet works.  They're both effective in stopping the bleeding.  But they're not the actual solution.

Right, they're a step towards managing the problem, but not a full solution in a single step.

So. They're good. In an iterative capacity. So... useful.

We all know that incrementalism is for moderates/centrists/Nazis...

Quick point of clarity though - is iterative progress for nazis because it is how the republican party successfully whittled away our right to reproductive care over the last 5 decades and is what has placed them currently at the point of successfully overturning our bodily autonomy/right to privacy and we consider them nazis?

Is that why?

I'd like to make sure I understand for future arguments on the internet (which have never solved sh*t either, come to think of it, iterative or not)

It's much simpler than that.  If progressives don't get everything they want right now, it's because the "filthy centrists" are working towards the same ideological goals as the Nazis.

If it doesn't make any sense to you, you're on the right track.

Adorable.

Wanting change is juvenile. And by your own admission incremental change isn't enough. But demanding larger steps than the minimum effort is just magical thinking.


You're putting a lot of words in his post then getting indignant about what he didn't say.
 
2022-05-26 10:01:45 AM  
Aren't you folks arguing the same point?  That something must be done to move forward, but we mustn't stop at that one thing?
 
2022-05-26 10:02:53 AM  

Astorix: [Fark user image image 850x793]


Maybe just apply that to political leadership gripping power through desperate gerrymandering?

Put differently, there are dumb farks everywhere and Texas isn't even the most gun and right-wing crazy state, although it is awfully vocal about it.

Hey, what do Texas and Osama bin Laden's hiding place have in common?

Answer:  Abbott, a bad...
 
2022-05-26 10:36:44 AM  

Aquapope: If shooting sprees are because of mental health issues then we need to adopt universal healthcare because everybody else has mental health issues but not shooting sprees.  Somehow the rest of he modern world has figured out how to keep their crazies from gunning down dozens of people at a time.

So which is it, Right-Wing Nutjobs, should we adopt universal healthcare or gun control?  One of those has to be why France, Germany, England, Norway, Finland, Austria, Italy, Spain, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Korea, etc. etc., etc., have mental health issues just like us but don't have mass murders every 2 or 3 days.  You keep saying it's a mental health problem and you'll end up talking yourself into socialized medicine.


Reich Wing wants to blame mental health.  But not DO anything about it.
 
2022-05-26 11:18:02 AM  
More like White Flag laws.
 
2022-05-26 11:23:46 AM  
It's a start. Do ANYTHING is better than saying "oh well!"

The GOP knows how to incrementally do things to further their agenda, we do the same with gun safety.
 
2022-05-26 11:28:22 AM  

Night Train to Wakanda: mediaho: [Fark user image image 850x710]

The DC v. Heller decision was a disgrace, along with so many other Roberts Court decisions that we will be living (and dying) with for generations at least. Thanks, protest- and non-voters for not wanting to get "political" about things.

If you're going to pick a fight, at least pick one you can win.


What do you mean by that?
 
2022-05-26 11:28:59 AM  

Aquapope: If shooting sprees are because of mental health issues then we need to adopt universal healthcare because everybody else has mental health issues but not shooting sprees.  Somehow the rest of he modern world has figured out how to keep their crazies from gunning down dozens of people at a time.

So which is it, Right-Wing Nutjobs, should we adopt universal healthcare or gun control?  One of those has to be why France, Germany, England, Norway, Finland, Austria, Italy, Spain, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Korea, etc. etc., etc., have mental health issues just like us but don't have mass murders every 2 or 3 days.  You keep saying it's a mental health problem and you'll end up talking yourself into socialized medicine.


You should not even engage the argument surrounding mental health and violence. It's not made in good faith.
 
2022-05-26 11:35:41 AM  
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