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(Quartz)   "... [I]t is insufficient protection for the public merely to tackle the individual rather than the gun"   (qz.com) divider line
    More: Vintage, Firearm, Columbine High School massacre, Dunblane massacre, gym of Dunblane Primary School, Virginia Tech massacre, availability of guns, Ban guns, Lord W. Douglas Cullen  
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2338 clicks; posted to Politics » and Main » on 25 May 2022 at 11:50 AM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-05-25 10:21:07 AM  
In Murica, we're forever waiting on the good guy with a gun to show up.
 
2022-05-25 11:14:54 AM  

edmo: In Murica, we're forever waiting on the good guy with a gun to show up.


Fark that waiting noise, I'm running for the exit.

/ SERPENTINE!
// SERPENTINE!
 
2022-05-25 11:51:49 AM  
ya but we beat them in the war
 
2022-05-25 11:53:18 AM  
Britain educates their population to mostly make informed decisions (Obviously Brexit was an exception). We specialize in beer, titties and stupid f*ckery.

Not sure if you get the difference between America and the rest of the industrialized world.

We dumb.
 
2022-05-25 11:53:25 AM  
We are the nations-state equivalent of Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

Changing your behavior based on facts and results is for libs and commies.
 
2022-05-25 11:54:25 AM  
It's worth reminding people: the solution is always less guns.

A mentally disturbed person without a gun is just an angry man with a spear.
 
2022-05-25 11:54:52 AM  

Palined Parenthood: ya but we beat them in the war


Sometimes I wonder if that was a good thing or not.
 
2022-05-25 11:55:31 AM  
If you don't act on something the first time it happens, it is hard to act the second, and harder the third.

It is now *impossible*.  This is just part of the texture of America.  Land of processed food, people who believe in angels, and dead school-children.
 
2022-05-25 11:56:34 AM  

the_rhino: Palined Parenthood: ya but we beat them in the war

Sometimes I wonder if that was a good thing or not.


and yet the NFL still allows for tie games lol
 
2022-05-25 11:57:31 AM  

The Madd Mann: It's worth reminding people: the solution is always less guns.

A mentally disturbed person without a gun is just an angry man with a spear.


But, but... he might run into an elementary school and massacre twenty children with that spear! What are you gonna do, ban spears?!?

/ hurrrrrr...
 
2022-05-25 11:58:08 AM  
yeah the best you can do is harm reduction by keeping teenagers and lunatics from buying them legally, stop selling assault rifles to citizens.  you can't take them back and there are more guns than people so it's kind of a moot point now that the GQP have let the NRA arm every idiot, psycho and arsehole with killing machines for 50 years.

sick sh t that, taking money to allow evil
 
2022-05-25 11:58:53 AM  
Sadly this wont change a thing. Ammosexuals are ok with any one else's kids being murdered so they can play soggy firearm with all their fat jagoff fake militia idiot friends. They will most likely accept their own dead children as a negligible loss to keep their guns also.
 
2022-05-25 11:58:55 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Britain educates their population to mostly make informed decisions (Obviously Brexit was an exception). We specialize in beer, titties and stupid f*ckery.

Not sure if you get the difference between America and the rest of the industrialized world.

We dumb.


The UK's parliamentary system means that its politicians feared the voters more than the gun lobby.  Our system is so broken it's the other way around.
 
2022-05-25 11:59:13 AM  
"More than 160,000 handguns would have to be handed in. Gun owners and hunting aficionados weren't happy."

They got over it, and so will you.  And if not, then fark your feelings.
 
2022-05-25 11:59:24 AM  

The Madd Mann: It's worth reminding people: the solution is always less guns.

A mentally disturbed person without a gun is just an angry man with a spear.


The solution in every other country that has dealt with the problem has always been less guns.

A mentally disturbed person without a gun kills far fewer people.
 
2022-05-25 11:59:54 AM  

patrick767: The Madd Mann: It's worth reminding people: the solution is always less guns.

A mentally disturbed person without a gun is just an angry man with a spear.

But, but... he might run into an elementary school and massacre twenty children with that spear! What are you gonna do, ban spears?!?

/ hurrrrrr...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_and_Sword_Possession_Control_Law
 
2022-05-25 12:00:16 PM  
I hope you're as happy as a pig in the best bourbon laced slop ever, Drew.

Your site has become the exact media crap pit you allegedly decried.

Enjoy the dead kids clicks.
 
2022-05-25 12:01:57 PM  
Obviously Brit politicians are naive and don't know how to game tragedies.
 
2022-05-25 12:02:50 PM  
We're too worried about CRT, Masks and if our kids might accidently read a story about a gay kid to tackle issues like our kids getting murdered in school.
 
2022-05-25 12:02:55 PM  
For health reasons I am going to have a happy gummy and die so many times in Dark Souls 3.
 
2022-05-25 12:03:35 PM  

Kittypie070: I hope you're as happy as a pig in the best bourbon laced slop ever, Drew.

Your site has become the exact media crap pit you allegedly decried.

Enjoy the dead kids clicks.


I knew it was Drew's fault!
 
2022-05-25 12:04:39 PM  
cms.qz.comView Full Size


versus

i.guim.co.ukView Full Size

ca-times.brightspotcdn.comView Full Size

i.insider.comView Full Size


Just a "fun" visual comparison.
 
2022-05-25 12:04:53 PM  
FTA: More than 160,000 handguns would have to be handed in. Gun owners and hunting aficionados weren't happy.

Estimated number of guns in  United States of America - 393,347,000.

Damn. That's a lotta guns.
 
2022-05-25 12:04:57 PM  

the_rhino: Palined Parenthood: ya but we beat them in the war

Sometimes I wonder if that was a good thing or not.


It's not. America would be immeasurably better off under British rule.

The Puritans were stupid people who had stupid children and should never have been permitted to govern themselves.
 
2022-05-25 12:06:37 PM  
The answer, as it always has been is both.

If you don't address people having easy access to assault rifles with extended mags and bumpstocks, then every time someone does this, they rack up the kind of body count that that kind of weapon with those kinds of mods is designed to do...

...but if we don't address the root issues, people being indoctrinated into a racist cult that makes them think their race is under attack and have to kill minorities to save it, as well mental health issues that cause people to simply snap, that we haven't addressed why we HAVE these shooters in the first place.

Fix only the social and mental side, and the few that slip through the cracks will be mass murderers. Fix the guns, but don't address the other societal issues, and we're still getting shootings every day, just with less people dying. Either would be a major improvement, but any plan to seriously, completely solve this problem MUST address both sides of the issue.
 
2022-05-25 12:07:16 PM  

edmo: In Murica, we're forever waiting on the good guy with a gun to show up.


Waiting for Godot's Gun
 
2022-05-25 12:08:20 PM  
May all ammosexuals meet their end by the very objects they so ardently worship.
 
2022-05-25 12:08:26 PM  
In America we weren't really fond of having a British occupying soldiers. We thought a standing army could be a force of oppression so we envisioned a citizen militia that could be called up when needed. Unfortunately that has been perverted to anyone can cosplay army man. Oh, and we have a standing army too.
 
2022-05-25 12:08:26 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-25 12:08:30 PM  

70Ford: FTA: More than 160,000 handguns would have to be handed in. Gun owners and hunting aficionados weren't happy.

Estimated number of guns in  United States of America - 393,347,000.

Damn. That's a lotta guns.


Hey, that's more than they have people.
 
2022-05-25 12:08:38 PM  
What's the over under on America being declared a failed state by 2030?

There is literally no longer any connection between what we the people want and what the U.S. govt acts on, both foreign and domestic

Right now the govt is failing to provide basic security, is failing to even look at the now worldwide housing crisis, so at what point will they stop bothering to feed us? That's when the shizz gets real for real
 
2022-05-25 12:08:57 PM  
Must be nice to live in a country without asshole Republicans.
 
2022-05-25 12:10:05 PM  
inb4 "stabbings."

Gun nuts love talking about those for some twisted reason.
 
2022-05-25 12:10:16 PM  

BeesNuts: If you don't act on something the first time it happens, it is hard to act the second, and harder the third.

It is now *impossible*.  This is just part of the texture of America.  Land of processed food, people who believe in angels, and dead school-children.


That's unfair. We didn't just ignore it. Republicans have put in a ton of work to normalize mass shootings and stop any attempts to address the issue. Getting Americans to just shrug their shoulders when a bunch of kids get murdered is one of the greatest conservatives achievements of the last 30 years
 
2022-05-25 12:11:07 PM  
Make a national database of people denied ownership of weapons. Once denied it's for life. No appeal. 8 week mandatory wait time while your background, psychiatric and internet history are sifted through.  Posting angry hate toward anyone puts you on the list. Which during Covid would put most anyone on social media on the list. Any guns you own now are destroyed. Anyone found in possession of a firearm that is on the list gets 30 years in prison. If you're hunkering down and ready to do battle because you don't wish to give up your guns and figure dead kids are a small price to pay for your rights you need to be on the list. You're nucking futs.
 
2022-05-25 12:11:11 PM  
In most countries they're weapons, in the U.S. they're Christmas presents.


img.thedailybeast.comView Full Size
 
2022-05-25 12:11:33 PM  
"I will not be held to restriction based on the bad actions of others when I have done no wrong."
Or put in more twitter-esque wording: Personal responsibility.

It doesn't matter if something is a net-loss to society
It doesn't matter if collective action would better address an issue.

Unless you can draw a strait line from a specific person or company to the harmed person, without ever passing through someone who broke a law, our nation is not interested in addressing it.

This is for guns, this is for climate change, this is for workers rights, this is for marginalized groups rights, this is for safety regulation.

It is the cult our entire nation lives under.
"Caveat Emptor" should replace "In God We Trust" on our money.
 
2022-05-25 12:13:44 PM  
they put the 2nd right after the 1st and namely the Religion part! Those are the prople you're supposed to be shooting! The goddamn preachers!

/2¢
 
2022-05-25 12:14:11 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


we have it all wrong, guys.  The gun is good.... It's the penis that is evil!  just ask the zardoz head.
 
2022-05-25 12:15:34 PM  

70Ford: FTA: More than 160,000 handguns would have to be handed in. Gun owners and hunting aficionados weren't happy.

Estimated number of guns in  United States of America - 393,347,000.

Damn. That's a lotta guns.


And half of them are in the hands of "collectors" with collections of (guessing) 50 or more. These people are in the minority and we must silence them.
 
2022-05-25 12:16:21 PM  
In the US, we have politicians like Steve Scalise who gets shot to shiat by a domestic terrorist and goes back to Congress with a bigger NRA hard on.
 
2022-05-25 12:17:27 PM  

BeesNuts: If you don't act on something the first time it happens, it is hard to act the second, and harder the third.

It is now *impossible*.  This is just part of the texture of America.  Land of processed food, people who believe in angels, and dead school-children.


Even when there's action, political climates change.  There used to be an assault weapon ban.  5 years ago, the Las Vegas asshat killed 58 people by using a bump stock to get his gun to act like an automatic.  Bump stocks were banned.  Now they're not (rulings up in air)

Gun control legislation will never happen.  Taking guns away, even from the mentally ill, goes against the rootin tootin character many Americans hold dear.

A possible remaining solution is to require gun owners to post a bond for each weapon they own.  If that weapon is used in a shooting, the have to pay up (and the bond should be extreme).  It would not stop all or even most shootings, but it would induce behavior that might trend toward stowing guns safely, and how they are passed around.  If your kid uses a gun to shoot up a school, you should lose your house.
 
2022-05-25 12:17:58 PM  
All you libs talking about grabbing guns, when we could have stopped yesterday's tragedy with a simple modification in job requirements for elementary school teachers:

• Bachelor's degree in teaching or relevant field.
• A minimum of 2 years experience as a teacher.
• In-depth knowledge of teaching methods and legal educational procedures.
• Outstanding written and verbal communication skills.
• Well-organized with excellent leadership abilities.
• Exceptional interpersonal and presentation skills.
• Must possess John Wick levels of situational awareness and small arms proficiency
• Must bring own gun and ammo

/This pretty much is the Republican solution to the problem
//More guns than people in this country and the solution is always MOAR GUNZ!
 
2022-05-25 12:19:02 PM  

trerro: The answer, as it always has been is both.

If you don't address people having easy access to assault rifles with extended mags and bumpstocks, then every time someone does this, they rack up the kind of body count that that kind of weapon with those kinds of mods is designed to do...

...but if we don't address the root issues, people being indoctrinated into a racist cult that makes them think their race is under attack and have to kill minorities to save it, as well mental health issues that cause people to simply snap, that we haven't addressed why we HAVE these shooters in the first place.

Fix only the social and mental side, and the few that slip through the cracks will be mass murderers. Fix the guns, but don't address the other societal issues, and we're still getting shootings every day, just with less people dying. Either would be a major improvement, but any plan to seriously, completely solve this problem MUST address both sides of the issue.



I'd support the country managing to do anything at all about either issue, at least as a starting point.

I was in high school during Columbine. Based on the amount of time teaching, one of the teachers killed yesterday was probably in high school during Columbine. We've spent more than 20 years doing nothing.
 
2022-05-25 12:19:11 PM  

Ragin' Asian: In the US, we have politicians like Steve Scalise who gets shot to shiat by a domestic terrorist and goes back to Congress with a bigger NRA hard on.


Well, I suppose that if he did a 180, he'd be scared of being called a hypocrite, so he's sticking with his principles.
 
2022-05-25 12:20:21 PM  

Call the Guy: What's the over under on America being declared a failed state by 2030?

There is literally no longer any connection between what we the people want and what the U.S. govt acts on, both foreign and domestic

Right now the govt is failing to provide basic security, is failing to even look at the now worldwide housing crisis, so at what point will they stop bothering to feed us? That's when the shizz gets real for real


There's two very commonly cited economic factors that lead to a failed state:
-Unusually high mean income relative to median. (In other words, wealth massively funneled to the top, and most people struggling.) We have this. 2x median to mean is specifically a level often seen as the critical mark when things are on the verge, and we're -just- shy of it.
-Debt exceeding GDP, or worse estimated net worth of the entire economy. We've long past the first and are headed for the second.

Wages need to go up at the bottom and the middle, taxes need to go up at the top, and a healthy economy that benefits normal people and not just heirs and investors needs to exist. In both cases there isn't a single measure that's going to do it on its own. However, most of the solutions are fairly obvious. Raise the minimum wage. Strength unions. Break monopolies, and stop them from forming in the first place. Socialize medicine. Have safety net that actually catches people. Have a progressive tax system that's actually progressive and doesn't jump 10% at the 32k mark, when most people haven't reached living wage yet. Treat capital gains with very few exceptions (like selling your primary car or residence) as income, because it is. Ban corporate donations in politics, and limit personal contributions to a campaign to something like 50 bucks.

We're rapidly approaching the point where the bottom drops out, and when it does, the rest of the stack goes with it. Many measures can be taken to prevent this, and not all of them have to be... but if we don't get systemic change in the next couple of presidencies, odds are quite high we're going off of a cliff.
 
2022-05-25 12:20:30 PM  
Assault weapon ban? Won't do crap. Pistols can kill as easily as an AR-15.
Same thing with high capacity magazines, banning bump-stocks, etc.
Take people's guns? Can't do it. There's 325 million+ guns in America and it'd require more resources than our entire military has to even make the slightest dent. It's physically impossible.
Gun buyback programs? Don't matter unless you prevent new ones from being bought.
Ban new purchases of all guns? Good luck getting that passed with the NRA in everyone's pockets, not to mention since so many stupid people still want them there'd be prohibition levels of blackmarket and criminal activity to import more.
Put in more gun restrictions? Won't do crap given how many guns there are and the fact that you can still jump through the hoops, buy them legally, and kill 20 children.

We're farked, guys.
 
2022-05-25 12:24:54 PM  

Khellendros: The Madd Mann: It's worth reminding people: the solution is always less guns.

A mentally disturbed person without a gun is just an angry man with a spear.

The solution in every other country that has dealt with the problem has always been less guns.

A mentally disturbed person without a gun kills far fewer people.


*fewer
 
2022-05-25 12:25:14 PM  
It's the behavior of politicians and their condoning that keeps this going.  When the unthinkable becomes a negotiable 50-50 "both sides are bad argument" the battle for civility has been lost and the war forced to a new level.  There's usually one belligerent side that forces that.
 
2022-05-25 12:25:32 PM  
I posted this three days ago, after the Buffalo shooting:

"Not really "accept" as to realize there isn't any way to stop them.  There never has been, except that in the Before Internet times, the crazies could only meet in person.  And as racism became socially unacceptable, the meeting places disappeared and the members faded into the woodwork.  It was almost literally unthinkable, so it didn't really happen, and was not reported widely outside the local media market when it did.

Then the development of the 24-hour cable news cycle began sensationalizing these events, and the internet allowed them to link up anonymously and irrespective of geography.

So a random man (and it's always a man, isn't it?) on a random day at a random minute of a random hour goes to a random occupied commercial/ religious/ educational/ public location and kills a bunch of random people until a) he eats his gun, or b) the cops show up and arrest/shoot him.

We have always been vulnerable to this.  Always.  And we likely always will be, unless we're willing to live in a real police state.  I mean ten percent of the population become active-duty police officers armed with rifles and wearing military-type body armor and occupying every street corner and guarding every building where people gather.

It's a social issue.  Gun control will not help; banning "assault weapons" will simply mean people buy "almost-assault weapon", no matter how the definition shifts.  And of course, the single most common method of homicide, the handgun, is not an "assault weapon" at all.

Waiting periods?  Might help with people that are suicidal or angry... but only with their first gun purchase.  The people steeped in 4chan and Qanon have been simmering for some time.  However long the waiting period is, they'll wait.

Magazine limits?  They simply bring more guns.  It's not like guns are expensive and mass shooters aren't worried about balancing their checkbooks or paying next month's bills.  Run up the credit card, get a payday loan, sell your PS5... whatever.  Drop the empty gun and draw another one.  Like the lobby scene in "The Matrix".

Microstamping?  Registration?  A MAGAt on a death-and-glory mass shooting isn't worried about getting caught!  "There were thirty eyewitnesses, seventeen video cameras, the shooter live-streamed his murders and the ballistics all matched the gun we caught him with... and it was registered to him!"  My eyes roll back so far I can see my brain.

What will help?  Well, first off, the corporate media needs to drastically change covering mass shootings.  When one happens it gets days of coverage as they talk about the shooter and his family, the victims and their family, eyewitnesses, etc.  They show endless loops of the crime scene, of crying family members and traumatized survivors.  They have a parade of experts to talk endlessly about it.

Every crying widow, every traumatized orphan, brings joy and happiness to the gutter-dwellers that infest the internet.  They see the hated "other" dead, dying, bleeding, crying, suffering, and their evil hearts fill with joy and a sense of purpose.  They want that for themselves!  For while the corporate media and normal society might vilify the perpetrator, the dank centers of racism, sexism, and bigotry will glorify them and egg each other on until another brainwashed, hate-filled incel slaps on his MAGA hat and shoots up a movie venue or a sports bar.

By marinating in the event so much, it becomes normalized, even if we don't want it to be.  It's been a week, and the Buffalo shooting is still being discussed on the national news.

The local media should treat this with all the attention it deserves, but the national media needs to mostly shut up about it to avoid glorifying the event and giving attention to the shooter.

Day 1: "In tragic news today, a man killed ten people in a supermarket, including a security guard, in Buffalo, New York before surrendering to the police.  No motive is yet known for the killing."

Day 2: "An update on the mass shooting in Buffalo yesterday.  The shooter, Joe Schmoe, posted a racist screed on Facebook before driving to a largely African-American section of the city and killing ten and wounding three.  He is set to be arraigned Monday."

Day 3: "Buffalo supermarket shooter Joe Schmoe was arraigned in Buffalo this morning on ten counts of second-degree murder and numerous assault and weapons charges after killing ten and wounding three.  Mr. Schmoe pleaded 'not guilty'."

Day 217:  "Jury selection begins today in the trial of Joe Schmoe, the man accused of killing ten and wounding three African-Americans in a racially-motivated shooting rampage at a supermarket in Buffalo, New York."

Day 242: "A unanimous jury found Joe Schmoe guilty on all counts of murdering ten and wounding three people in a racially-motivated attack in Buffalo last May.  The jury deliberated less than an hour before finding him guilty of hate-motivated murder and attempted murder, as well as assault and illegal possession of a firearm."

And that's all that should be on the corporate media: ten-second blurbs by the network evening news, the 24-hour news networks, the papers (including their social media presence), and other national news outlets.

Second, we need some serious anti-terrorism task forces that look into ALL sources, not just American Muslims, BLM, and PETA.  We need to start coming down hard on militias and other extremists groups.  Proud Boys, anti-abortionists, etc.  I don't care how it look or how much the Republicans whine and cry about "being cancelled" or persecuted.  They're Christian Nationalists; they think they're being persecuted all the time anyway.  Their version of persecution is when you take away the baseball bat they're beating you with!

Third, it's time to grow some balls at the IRS and come down like a hammer on churches getting involved in politics.  It's bad enough in general they're selling an undetectable service for ten percent of your income WHILE not paying taxes!  If they want to be political, then start paying taxes!

I think this will reduce, long-term, the mass shootings per capita.  I hate to say it, but there is no quick fix.  We've spent decades getting to this point, and it will be decades getting out of it. "
 
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