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(Medium)   Ever wondered what it was like to go from the scientific wonder of the Roman Empire to the Dark Ages? Well you won't need to wonder much longer, we're living it   (davetroy.medium.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Supreme Court of the United States, World War II, U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, Elon Musk, Occult, Supreme court, Dark side, Federalist Papers  
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3960 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 May 2022 at 2:05 PM (11 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-05-24 12:40:11 PM  
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/needs moar Garrison
 
2022-05-24 1:01:00 PM  
Subby, things did not all fall into instant rot in 477.  Most people didn't even know the Roman Empire had fallen for years, if not decades, afterwards.  And their concerns were mostly due to supply issues, not everyone forgetting how the super-computers you assume the Romans had worked.  In Britain, they still built several temples and other public works, but in wood because the easy access to marble was gone without shipments via the Roman network.  The buildings were still to the engineering specs of earlier construction, only the materials changed for practical reasons.  Roman achievements were not generally based on mega-brain Roman perfection, but the sheer ability to organize things because the Romans had a reasonably centralized administration and trade network.  To the extent the Romans had more gizmos, it was because they went in and raped any culture they came across and took their stuff.  That Ted Bundy had a diverse panty collection didn't make him a haute couture genius.
 
2022-05-24 1:06:14 PM  
I think it's more analogous with the Persian empire. They went from inventing algebra to believing numbers were the work of the devil.

Sounds pretty on point with where the US is headed.
 
2022-05-24 1:19:02 PM  
TURN.  OFF.  FOX.  NEWS.
 
2022-05-24 1:23:06 PM  
The dark age was brought about by the collapse of the Roman empire. America is going nowhere as we are not anywhere close to where the empire was when they fell apart.
 
2022-05-24 1:30:08 PM  
When the fascist international is ready and willing to engage in chaos magick to achieve its goals

It's ironic about these conspiracy mongering nuts who are obsessed with 'symbolism' and occult cabals use a term like 'dark MAGA'. 'Maga' is Latin for sorcerer/sorceress or magic. It literally means 'dark magic'.
 
2022-05-24 1:34:13 PM  
It's not 2024 yet, subby is getting a little ahead of himself
 
2022-05-24 1:35:08 PM  
The fall of the Roman Republic is more on par for us than the fall of the Empire.  Remember, the empire lived on for another couple centuries in the East after it fell in the West.
 
2022-05-24 1:43:04 PM  

phalamir: And their concerns were mostly due to supply issues, not everyone forgetting how the super-computers you assume the Romans had worked.


However, our technology now is arguably even more supply chain dependent. (I've been designing electronics as of late, and I will tell you that it's an absolute nightmare to try to make a design with a couple dozen ICs on it, any one of which may suddenly become unavailable for six months because...well, they never actually explain. You can mitigate this somewhat by using parts that are industry standard and have multiple manufacturers, but if you're trying to make something high-performance or specialized, you probably have to commit yourself to specific parts for which there are no 1-1 drop-in replacements. It sucks. I spend a lot of time hating spreadsheets.)

My suspicion is that a "collapse" like that wouldn't just suddenly turn everywhere into Mad Max, it would be more of a "downgrade" where technology isn't entirely forgotten so much as unavailable, and people more commonly use older-style designs that take less specialized technology to produce which can be manufactured for regional markets rather than relying on 5 nm process microchips from Taiwan and Lithium from Brazil.

/ Also massive political instability depending on how much food people can get, but that goes without saying
 
2022-05-24 1:49:03 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: My suspicion is that a "collapse" like that wouldn't just suddenly turn everywhere into Mad Max, it would be more of a "downgrade" where technology isn't entirely forgotten so much as unavailable, and people more commonly use older-style designs that take less specialized technology to produce which can be manufactured for regional markets rather than relying on 5 nm process microchips from Taiwan and Lithium from Brazil.


This country has a tremendous amount of natural resources. The US has 80% of the worlds shale oil at 2 trillion barrels confirmed (daily consumption here in the US is 5 million barrels a day, so thats more than a full century even with growth).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale_reserves
 
2022-05-24 1:50:44 PM  

Thoreny: Martian_Astronomer: My suspicion is that a "collapse" like that wouldn't just suddenly turn everywhere into Mad Max, it would be more of a "downgrade" where technology isn't entirely forgotten so much as unavailable, and people more commonly use older-style designs that take less specialized technology to produce which can be manufactured for regional markets rather than relying on 5 nm process microchips from Taiwan and Lithium from Brazil.

This country has a tremendous amount of natural resources. The US has 80% of the worlds shale oil at 2 trillion barrels confirmed (daily consumption here in the US is 5 million barrels a day, so thats more than a full century even with growth).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale_reserves


To add, meant to say that we in the United States will be fine. We have what we need here to still be a force in this world. Our technological prowess is going nowhere.
 
2022-05-24 1:52:00 PM  

Thoreny: Thoreny: Martian_Astronomer: My suspicion is that a "collapse" like that wouldn't just suddenly turn everywhere into Mad Max, it would be more of a "downgrade" where technology isn't entirely forgotten so much as unavailable, and people more commonly use older-style designs that take less specialized technology to produce which can be manufactured for regional markets rather than relying on 5 nm process microchips from Taiwan and Lithium from Brazil.

This country has a tremendous amount of natural resources. The US has 80% of the worlds shale oil at 2 trillion barrels confirmed (daily consumption here in the US is 5 million barrels a day, so thats more than a full century even with growth).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale_reserves

To add, meant to say that we in the United States will be fine. We have what we need here to still be a force in this world. Our technological prowess is going nowhere.


Assuming the political winds don't shift us into a backwards theocracy
 
2022-05-24 1:56:09 PM  

Thoreny: Martian_Astronomer: My suspicion is that a "collapse" like that wouldn't just suddenly turn everywhere into Mad Max, it would be more of a "downgrade" where technology isn't entirely forgotten so much as unavailable, and people more commonly use older-style designs that take less specialized technology to produce which can be manufactured for regional markets rather than relying on 5 nm process microchips from Taiwan and Lithium from Brazil.

This country has a tremendous amount of natural resources. The US has 80% of the worlds shale oil at 2 trillion barrels confirmed (daily consumption here in the US is 5 million barrels a day, so thats more than a full century even with growth).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale_reserves


Okay. But if all of a sudden we can't get the microchips or the lithium or the rare earths we depend on, for years at a time, particularly if extraction infrastructure is disrupted, then we're going to have to make work-arounds.

"I know how to make a computer chip" and "I have a factory that can make computer chips" are not the same thing.

/ And if the US loses nation cohesion, well, all bets are off
// And this isn't even addressing how boned everyone would be if we just decided we were going to keep relying o the same oil consumption rate we're at for the next 100 years
 
2022-05-24 1:58:19 PM  

west.la.lawyer: TURN.  OFF.  FOX.  NEWS.


TOTP 1977 Synthesizer Special
Youtube WyvVKRDjOiw
 
2022-05-24 2:00:15 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: Okay. But if all of a sudden we can't get the microchips or the lithium or the rare earths we depend on, for years at a time, particularly if extraction infrastructure is disrupted, then we're going to have to make work-arounds.


That isn't going to be much of a problem at all. This globalized economy will ensure that even tho our supply chains are stressed thin, people like making money, and we still have a lot of that. Our wealth is immense and we can outbid pretty much anyone else.
 
2022-05-24 2:03:00 PM  

raerae1980: The fall of the Roman Republic is more on par for us than the fall of the Empire.  Remember, the empire lived on for another couple centuries in the East after it fell in the West.


To add: we're closer in time to the fall of the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire than the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire was to the fall of the Western Roman Empire.
 
2022-05-24 2:04:59 PM  
The concept of "The Dark Ages" was just the Italian Renaissance being f*cking smug about itself.
 
2022-05-24 2:06:07 PM  

Thoreny: Martian_Astronomer: Okay. But if all of a sudden we can't get the microchips or the lithium or the rare earths we depend on, for years at a time, particularly if extraction infrastructure is disrupted, then we're going to have to make work-arounds.

That isn't going to be much of a problem at all. This globalized economy will ensure that even tho our supply chains are stressed thin, people like making money, and we still have a lot of that. Our wealth is immense and we can outbid pretty much anyone else.


"We?"
 
2022-05-24 2:07:16 PM  

lurkey: Thoreny: Martian_Astronomer: Okay. But if all of a sudden we can't get the microchips or the lithium or the rare earths we depend on, for years at a time, particularly if extraction infrastructure is disrupted, then we're going to have to make work-arounds.

That isn't going to be much of a problem at all. This globalized economy will ensure that even tho our supply chains are stressed thin, people like making money, and we still have a lot of that. Our wealth is immense and we can outbid pretty much anyone else.

"We?"


The United States. English lacks an exclusive/inclusive "we" distinction.
 
2022-05-24 2:07:31 PM  
It's your fault my Amazon Prime package took 3 days because you're a witch!
 
2022-05-24 2:10:31 PM  

west.la.lawyer: TURN.  OFF.  FOX.  NEWS.



Too late...the genie is out of the bottle and the damage is irreversible
 
2022-05-24 2:11:06 PM  
Rome fell because it had too many frontiers, subs.

Sorry history isn't your strong suit.
 
2022-05-24 2:12:48 PM  

whidbey: Rome fell because it had too many frontiers, subs.

Sorry history isn't your strong suit.


??
I'm not sure it's yours either, dude.
 
2022-05-24 2:13:21 PM  
A- "Nothing makes sense, and we need to rebuild our collective reality."

B- "Men can get pregnant."

A- "OMG, that's so brave and beautiful! Tell me more!"
 
2022-05-24 2:13:21 PM  
I say we take our best and brightest, put them somewhere out of the way so they can create an encyclopedia to preserve knowledge through the coming darkness.
 
2022-05-24 2:13:34 PM  

whidbey: Rome fell because it had too many frontiers, subs.

Sorry history isn't your strong suit.


No, Rome fell because too many men really wanted to be Emperors at the cost of the Empire. They would give land to barbarians for settlement just for their support in some guy's attempt at seizing the throne.
 
2022-05-24 2:13:36 PM  
I think I am going to watch The Beastmaster, where the cult gets destroyed. Ah the 1980s, so long ago.
 
2022-05-24 2:14:02 PM  
Anf if we have a nuclear war, the only survivors will be militant preppers and bible-thumpers in backward states.

Welcome to the Derp Ages.
 
2022-05-24 2:14:05 PM  

raerae1980: whidbey: Rome fell because it had too many frontiers, subs.

Sorry history isn't your strong suit.

??
I'm not sure it's yours either, dude.


It's what I was taught.  Didn't realize there was disagreement.
 
2022-05-24 2:14:55 PM  

Thoreny: whidbey: Rome fell because it had too many frontiers, subs.

Sorry history isn't your strong suit.

No, Rome fell because too many men really wanted to be Emperors at the cost of the Empire. They would give land to barbarians for settlement just for their support in some guy's attempt at seizing the throne.


Also all the donatives they paid out to troops put serious financial strain upon the treasury. That played a really big part as well.
 
2022-05-24 2:14:58 PM  

Thoreny: Martian_Astronomer: Okay. But if all of a sudden we can't get the microchips or the lithium or the rare earths we depend on, for years at a time, particularly if extraction infrastructure is disrupted, then we're going to have to make work-arounds.

That isn't going to be much of a problem at all. This globalized economy will ensure that even tho our supply chains are stressed thin, people like making money, and we still have a lot of that. Our wealth is immense and we can outbid pretty much anyone else.


Right, but I was discussing a hypothetical scenario in which the global supply chain was significantly disrupted.

And while I don't doubt that the US can outbid other nations in the near term, it's hubris to assume that it can last indefinitely if we fark things up badly for a couple decades.
 
2022-05-24 2:15:12 PM  
Wow where ever submitter lives must be exciting. The sky continues to fall on them 24 hours a day.
 
2022-05-24 2:15:26 PM  

whidbey: Rome fell because it had too many frontiers, subs.

Sorry history isn't your strong suit.


That is a gross oversimplification of a very long and involved process.
 
2022-05-24 2:16:42 PM  
huh? what climate emergency? chinese hoax.
 
2022-05-24 2:16:57 PM  

whidbey: raerae1980: whidbey: Rome fell because it had too many frontiers, subs.

Sorry history isn't your strong suit.

??
I'm not sure it's yours either, dude.

It's what I was taught.  Didn't realize there was disagreement.


It's not nearly as simple as your comment made it sound.   There were multiple points of stress in the Empire, and some of that was due to expansion of the empire, but that's not the complete picture.
 
2022-05-24 2:17:01 PM  

ISmartAllMyOwnPosts: A- "Nothing makes sense, and we need to rebuild our collective reality."

B- "Men can get pregnant."

A- "OMG, that's so brave and beautiful! Tell me more!"


Doesn't justify nazism, though.
 
2022-05-24 2:17:28 PM  

Cheron: I say we take our best and brightest, put them somewhere out of the way so they can create an encyclopedia to preserve knowledge through the coming darkness.


Are you going to end your project with an immortal robot overlord coming out of the deus ex to unite everything? ;)
 
2022-05-24 2:17:39 PM  
The "normal" world that we've inhabited since the end of World War II - one filled with institutions, the rule of law, compromise, business reality, elections and politics, fragile though it is - has been gradually and then suddenly supplanted by a world governed by the exercise of raw power.

...
and then his first example is the Ukraine war. Dude! If anything the Ukraine war is the story of how a plucky underdog is leveraging technology, a good support network, and good old fashioned morale to kick "raw power" in the balls.
 
2022-05-24 2:17:45 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: hubris to assume that it can last indefinitely if we fark things up badly for a couple decades.


This is also very true. But a decade disruption is something that the rich cannot afford. Our supply chain may collapse, but it will be rebuilt rather quickly as a lotta farking money will be in play.
 
2022-05-24 2:17:55 PM  
That right wingers are all hard for a "dark maga" should tell you about all you need to know about right wingers.

They fantasize about a leader that will come in and kill and or enslave everyone they hate and they're not even hiding it anymore.
 
2022-05-24 2:18:11 PM  
In regards to elections and maga... my wife is filling out passport information for the family as we speak. I'm deeply concerned about it, and have been for some time now.

It's hard to say it's all just conspiracy driven madness when you're looking at the types of people rising to power, actual legislation or SCOTUS rulings, white supremacy on the rise, etc. These are real people and real things out there making moves to slowly dismantle everything we've worked for. It's stuff that's on. the. table., right farking now.

I don't believe the US can be fully transformed into a nazi state, but i *do* believe those powers will make a serious run at it, which will eventually destroy any credibility we have with the rest of the 1st world countries, losing us bargaining power (either through spite, or our own moron stupidity put in office), and we become some sort of toxic shiathole.
 
2022-05-24 2:18:15 PM  
Rome fell because the progressives took over and corrupted the Christian values that built their once great society.
 
2022-05-24 2:18:54 PM  

neongoats: That right wingers are all hard for a "dark maga" should tell you about all you need to know about right wingers.

They fantasize about a leader that will come in and kill and or enslave everyone they hate and they're not even hiding it anymore.


Yup.  Mostly because a black man was president for eight years.  Sad stuff.
 
2022-05-24 2:19:22 PM  
I think its valid to be concerned about the loss of knowledge. Local trumpers hereabouts certainly welcome the destruction of understanding and try really hard to stomp down anyone who tries to help teach others.
As conservatives get more desperate, expect them to revert to type and kill knowledge as well as people.
 
2022-05-24 2:20:13 PM  
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2022-05-24 2:20:58 PM  

Cheron: I say we take our best and brightest, put them somewhere out of the way so they can create an encyclopedia to preserve knowledge through the coming darkness.


Perhaps some form of Foundation?
 
2022-05-24 2:20:58 PM  

Subtonic: Rome fell because the progressives took over and corrupted the Christian values that built their once great society.


No, insufficient sacrifices in the temples.  Everyone know that.
/lol
 
2022-05-24 2:21:04 PM  

Subtonic: Rome fell because the progressives took over and corrupted the Christian values that built their once great society.


Other way around. Rome was strongest when it was pagan. Had the empire not been further weakened by corrupt christian clergy odds are they would have recovered.
 
2022-05-24 2:22:56 PM  

Weaver95: Subtonic: Rome fell because the progressives took over and corrupted the Christian values that built their once great society.

Other way around. Rome was strongest when it was pagan. Had the empire not been further weakened by corrupt christian clergy odds are they would have recovered.


Rome itself was founded by our lord and savior Jesus Christ. Read a book, stupid.
 
2022-05-24 2:23:00 PM  
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