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(Slate)   Justice Alito's understanding of guns and gun violence appears to come exclusively from Charles Bronson movies, which is why SCOTUS' next major decision on guns will likely be designed to turn New York City into the wild west   (slate.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Supreme Court of the United States, Firearm, Roe v. Wade, Samuel Alito, gun violence problem, New York, United States Solicitor General, lax gun laws  
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2853 clicks; posted to Politics » and Main » on 24 May 2022 at 12:09 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-05-24 9:57:19 AM  
Recent events in New York have brought the grim realities of America's gun violence problem into sharp relief.

How many times has this opening sentence been recycled with a different city in the last 20 years?  This must be a permanent template for every reporter.

based on the oral argument in the case, this unthinkable reality seems almost inevitable unless the court comes to its senses, abandons originalist fantasy, and recognizes the long history of gun regulation and enforcement in America, including limits on public carry.

In a GOP-stacked SCOTUS?  lol, you're lucky they're not just saying, "Fark it, guns for everyone.  No permits required, no age limits, no background or mental health checks, no waiting period, no bans on automatics, modifications, or attachments. Got cash?  Have a gun, have two!  And don't forget your ammo!  You're gonna need lots of it!"
 
2022-05-24 10:01:27 AM  
Maybe they'll finally be able to make a good salsa, then.
 
2022-05-24 10:26:32 AM  
Must be nice to live in the purely theoretical world of the current Court.

/Perfectly spherical guns on an infinite plane would be harmless.
 
2022-05-24 11:56:49 AM  
Easy to rule for guns when you have government supplied body guards 24/7.
 
MFK
2022-05-24 12:11:19 PM  
Great. Just what we needed: more death.
 
2022-05-24 12:12:22 PM  
New York City should go back to Giuliani's "Stop and Frisk" program. You can't argue with the results.
 
2022-05-24 12:13:32 PM  
Suffering is the point. Big city's just have to learn to make due.
 
2022-05-24 12:13:55 PM  
So I can carry a Wilde 475 in NYC now?
 
TKM
2022-05-24 12:14:50 PM  
I thought the commies were busy invading Ukraine.  Looks like a few are still beavering away at the Slate.
 
2022-05-24 12:15:07 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: New York City should go back to Giuliani's "Stop and Frisk" program. You can't argue with the results.


Anyone in a Maga hat automatically deserves it.
 
2022-05-24 12:15:27 PM  
This is my surprised face

Fark user imageView Full Size


(the first one, btw)
 
2022-05-24 12:15:58 PM  

Psychopusher: Recent events in New York have brought the grim realities of America's gun violence problem into sharp relief.

How many times has this opening sentence been recycled with a different city in the last 20 years?  This must be a permanent template for every reporter.

based on the oral argument in the case, this unthinkable reality seems almost inevitable unless the court comes to its senses, abandons originalist fantasy, and recognizes the long history of gun regulation and enforcement in America, including limits on public carry.

In a GOP-stacked SCOTUS?  lol, you're lucky they're not just saying, "Fark it, guns for everyone.  No permits required, no age limits, no background or mental health checks, no waiting period, no bans on automatics, modifications, or attachments. Got cash?  Have a gun, have two!  And don't forget your ammo!  You're gonna need lots of it!"


Everyone?


Remember that time Ronald Reagan decided gun control was cool?
 
2022-05-24 12:16:04 PM  
Turn it into a state's rights issue and be done with it.
 
2022-05-24 12:18:19 PM  
It's staggering to think how long it will take us to recover from the damage this SC is going to do over the next ~20 years.
 
2022-05-24 12:18:29 PM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2022-05-24 12:19:36 PM  
The thing that hurts the most is that it's really easy to see the big picture conservative plan for America, but when you present that to a group of people trying very hard to consider each piece of the puzzle an isolated incident rather than a portion of a whole, they tell you that you're an alarmist and there is no overarching plan. It's all being done out in the open, and millions of people just refuse to believe it.
 
2022-05-24 12:20:30 PM  

Short Victoria's War: This is my surprised face

[Fark user image image 236x236]

(the first one, btw)


He looks really different without hair
resizing.flixster.comView Full Size
 
2022-05-24 12:21:03 PM  
krispos42.comView Full Size


The ratio of firearm-to-non-firearm has been creeping up over the decades even as the murder rates drop.

Of course, back in the 70s NYC had over two thousand homicides a year for a decade or so; something like a murder every 4 hours.
 
2022-05-24 12:21:10 PM  
Make a decision, then find justification for your decision.

Just like the Founders planned.

At this point I'm waiting for SCOTUS to uphold a verdict of "guilty" in a civil case.
 
2022-05-24 12:23:20 PM  

jayhawk88: It's staggering to think how long it will take us to recover from the damage this SC is going to do over the next ~20 years.


Assuming recovery is even possible at this point.
 
2022-05-24 12:23:23 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: New York City should go back to Giuliani's "Stop and Frisk" program. You can't argue with the results.


The results were useless and obvious, overwhelmingly racist enforcement of the program.
 
2022-05-24 12:23:57 PM  
Charles and his wife were treasures.  Also this is him at approximately age 50 I believe.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-24 12:24:12 PM  

jayhawk88: It's staggering to think how long it will take us to recover from the damage this SC is going to do over the next ~20 years.


This country is not going to recover. At least not in its present form.
 
2022-05-24 12:24:27 PM  
I wonder if the end game is to generate crisis over what the federal government can/can't do such that it results in a bipartisan push for a Constitutional Convention as the only practical way to address society's challenges, wherein the GOP has a numbers advantage.
 
2022-05-24 12:26:07 PM  

drewsfarkthrowaway: Turn it into a state's rights issue and be done with it.


That's a bad way to handle a civil right.
 
2022-05-24 12:26:13 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-24 12:27:15 PM  

FlippityFlap: jayhawk88: It's staggering to think how long it will take us to recover from the damage this SC is going to do over the next ~20 years.

This country is not going to recover. At least not in its present form.


Well in this vein of thinking we can just as easily say we're already dead.

Welcome to the first rule of the battlefield. You are now ready to fight.
 
2022-05-24 12:29:10 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: New York City should go back to Giuliani's "Stop and Frisk" program. You can't argue with the results.


Agreed. They can target the people committing or able to commit fraud in large numbers. Target Wall Street, people working at the big banks, the big lawyer companies, politicians, and the maga crowd due to their tendencies to break the law.
 
2022-05-24 12:29:37 PM  
comb.ioView Full Size
 
2022-05-24 12:29:40 PM  

FlippityFlap: jayhawk88: It's staggering to think how long it will take us to recover from the damage this SC is going to do over the next ~20 years.

This country is not going to recover. At least not in its present form.


And there are still people who think they can vote us out of the mess we're in these days.
🙄
What's the line? The avalanche has already started. The pebbles don't get to vote.
 
2022-05-24 12:29:55 PM  

mrmopar5287: Kangaroo_Ralph: New York City should go back to Giuliani's "Stop and Frisk" program. You can't argue with the results.

The results were useless and obvious, overwhelmingly racist enforcement of the program.


Beginning in 1991, New York experienced the broadest and deepest decline in violent crime of any major American city.
 
2022-05-24 12:31:13 PM  

krispos42: [krispos42.com image 850x366]

The ratio of firearm-to-non-firearm has been creeping up over the decades even as the murder rates drop.

Of course, back in the 70s NYC had over two thousand homicides a year for a decade or so; something like a murder every 4 hours.


Thank Giuliani!

/s
 
2022-05-24 12:32:12 PM  
Everyone is going to be allowed to carry on the subway?

Guess it's time to buy some body armor.
 
2022-05-24 12:32:19 PM  
Charles Bronson was always good about eliminating those creeps.
 
2022-05-24 12:32:37 PM  

spongeboob: Psychopusher: Recent events in New York have brought the grim realities of America's gun violence problem into sharp relief.

How many times has this opening sentence been recycled with a different city in the last 20 years?  This must be a permanent template for every reporter.

based on the oral argument in the case, this unthinkable reality seems almost inevitable unless the court comes to its senses, abandons originalist fantasy, and recognizes the long history of gun regulation and enforcement in America, including limits on public carry.

In a GOP-stacked SCOTUS?  lol, you're lucky they're not just saying, "Fark it, guns for everyone.  No permits required, no age limits, no background or mental health checks, no waiting period, no bans on automatics, modifications, or attachments. Got cash?  Have a gun, have two!  And don't forget your ammo!  You're gonna need lots of it!"

Everyone?


Remember that time Ronald Reagan decided gun control was cool?


Reagan decided gun control was cool because it prevented black people from expressing their rights to bear arms. GQP is for gun control (and other restrictions) when it is to suppress minorities' rights, but when it's a white male who wants to intimidate non-whites then the GQP is like, "YAHOO, here's your guns!"
 
2022-05-24 12:32:39 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: mrmopar5287: Kangaroo_Ralph: New York City should go back to Giuliani's "Stop and Frisk" program. You can't argue with the results.

The results were useless and obvious, overwhelmingly racist enforcement of the program.

Beginning in 1991, New York experienced the broadest and deepest decline in violent crime of any major American city.


external-preview.redd.itView Full Size
 
2022-05-24 12:33:32 PM  

MurphyMurphy: FlippityFlap: jayhawk88: It's staggering to think how long it will take us to recover from the damage this SC is going to do over the next ~20 years.

This country is not going to recover. At least not in its present form.

Well in this vein of thinking we can just as easily say we're already dead.

Welcome to the first rule of the battlefield. You are now ready to fight.


If they do succeed in all of their plans the mix of white supremacist conspiracies, prosperity gospel Christianity, and robber baron economics is not going to create a stable state. We will just lurch from preventable crisis to preventable crisis until adults can wrest power from them. That's what happens next.
 
2022-05-24 12:34:20 PM  

EvilEgg: Must be nice to live in the purely theoretical world of the current Court.

/Perfectly spherical guns on an infinite plane would be harmless.


Unless you are a spherical cow on a frictionless surface
 
2022-05-24 12:34:34 PM  

krispos42: [krispos42.com image 850x366]

The ratio of firearm-to-non-firearm has been creeping up over the decades even as the murder rates drop.

Of course, back in the 70s NYC had over two thousand homicides a year for a decade or so; something like a murder every 4 hours.


More like ~1600 for 20 years, peaking in 1990. The sharp drop coincides with Freakonomics "18 years after Roe v. Wade" argument and Giuliani's tenure, which is why he was so popular with his "broken windows" policies (which was post hoc ergo propter hoc reasoning, because as you show in your chart, the crime drop was nationwide).

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-24 12:35:37 PM  
Just have people stop shooting each other.

Problem solved.

Maybe have the leaders demand an end to violence.  Not through legislation, but through real true leadership.  A person chooses to kill.  Win their hearts and minds so they choose to not kill.  Unless the killers dont really have free will.  In that case we cant stop them anyways, since they dont have free will.  They are automatons.  They are kill bots.

How hard is it to not kill?  Even I havent shot anybody.  If I havent, cant the light and love of NYC compel people to peace?

The only conclusion we can come to is that humanity has been infiltrated by skin job kill bots.  Automatons without free will.
 
2022-05-24 12:36:13 PM  

MurphyMurphy: FlippityFlap: jayhawk88: It's staggering to think how long it will take us to recover from the damage this SC is going to do over the next ~20 years.

This country is not going to recover. At least not in its present form.

Well in this vein of thinking we can just as easily say we're already dead.

Welcome to the first rule of the battlefield. You are now ready to fight.


Oh, I'm ready.....just way behind enemy lines for the time being.
 
2022-05-24 12:36:54 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: Beginning in 1991, New York experienced the broadest and deepest decline in violent crime of any major American city.


Oh, you mean the same drop in crime that occurred basically everywhere else in the USA without stop and frisk?

Correlation is not causation.
 
2022-05-24 12:37:21 PM  
The Founders: "A WELL-REGULATED* militia..."
noted gun-grabber Antonin Scalia: "Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited (and some regulation is allowed)..."
SCOTUS, literally ever since: "but not that regulation. or that one. or that one. or..."

* And spare me your lectures about how it ACKSHALLY means "in regular order" - it damn well does not (solely) mean that, and you'd have to ignore a LOT of contemporaneous understanding (like, by the Framers/Founders)of the word 'regulate', what a militia is, and the (supposed) role of Congress in, uh, regulating stuff to come to that "originalist" conclusion. We get it, you like guns.
 
2022-05-24 12:38:40 PM  
At least in the Wild West, people would shoot back.  What we see in New York, Chicago, DC, and other places with enhanced gun control laws is more like a one sided slaughter.
 
2022-05-24 12:39:13 PM  
Also, much like Gordon Gekko of the 80's and Tyler Durden of the 90's, Charles Bronson's character in Death Wish was so obviously a broken shell of a man the director didn't think he needed to make him any more overtly denounced in the movie for audiences to get that he was an object of pity rather than a hero, a husk of a man unable to heal, seeking death because his life is meaningless, but here we are.
 
2022-05-24 12:39:50 PM  

Dr Dreidel: * And spare me your lectures about how it ACKSHALLY means "in regular order" - it damn well does not (solely) mean that, and you'd have to ignore a LOT of contemporaneous understanding (like, by the Framers/Founders)of the word 'regulate',


It'd be shorter if you just posted something like a contemporary definition of the word from back then. Something easy to verify like a dictionary might work.
 
2022-05-24 12:40:39 PM  
People here on fark used the 'will turn into the wild west' argument when my state went to open carry.  That has not happened, it was a lie then and it's a lie now.

Now, NY is full of shiatheads, so they might get a different outcome.  But that's on you NY.
 
2022-05-24 12:43:05 PM  

FlippityFlap: jayhawk88: It's staggering to think how long it will take us to recover from the damage this SC is going to do over the next ~20 years.

This country is not going to recover. At least not in its present form.


Sure it can first you need to line all the Republicans up and shoot them.
Problem solved.


/s
 
2022-05-24 12:43:07 PM  

Dr Dreidel: The Founders: "A WELL-REGULATED* militia..."
noted gun-grabber Antonin Scalia: "Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited (and some regulation is allowed)..."
SCOTUS, literally ever since: "but not that regulation. or that one. or that one. or..."

* And spare me your lectures about how it ACKSHALLY means "in regular order" - it damn well does not (solely) mean that, and you'd have to ignore a LOT of contemporaneous understanding (like, by the Framers/Founders)of the word 'regulate', what a militia is, and the (supposed) role of Congress in, uh, regulating stuff to come to that "originalist" conclusion. We get it, you like guns.


Not only that, but "a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State." The army was a federal thing, States can't have armies. What they can (and do) have is the National Guard, which is "a well regulated militia" for "the security of a free State." It is entirely in keeping with the second amendment to say that you can't prohibit National Guardsmen and only National Guardsmen from keeping and bearing firearms.
 
2022-05-24 12:43:44 PM  
Remember that the problem of gunists will never be solved by engaging with gunists -- conflict, real or imagined, only ever feeds into their fantasies. Don't model them as people, they're more like shiat-blizzards.

When rich people are held to account for gunist conduct, that's when things will start to change. When they truly understand that the gunists living their gunist lifestyle will directly cost them things they want, we won't have gunists any more.
 
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