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(NPR)   Surge in desertions has some military experts Naval gazing   (npr.org) divider line
    More: Interesting, Desertion, Navy, United States Navy, Uniform Code of Military Justice, Armed forces, Military, United States Air Force, Eddie Slovik  
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5120 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 22 May 2022 at 7:41 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-05-22 6:45:02 PM  
"I'd like to leave the Army, please, sir."

y.yarn.coView Full Size
 
2022-05-22 7:42:55 PM  
Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.
 
2022-05-22 7:43:11 PM  
White nationalists joining to get some training then leaving to arm themselves for the race war they want to start?
 
2022-05-22 7:48:22 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: White nationalists joining to get some training then leaving to arm themselves for the race war they want to start?


Yes. Likely because the coming race war will mostly be fought at sea.
 
zez
2022-05-22 7:48:24 PM  
It's probably because of the uniforms. Seriously, why do they still dress like that?

media.npr.orgView Full Size
 
2022-05-22 7:52:08 PM  

zez: It's probably because of the uniforms. Seriously, why do they still dress like that?

[media.npr.org image 850x637]


because that's the color everyone expects semen to be.
 
2022-05-22 7:52:09 PM  
George Carlin once said on the Dennis Miller talk show that he blames the troops for the wars, not the leaders.  "fark these people, don't show up!  If none of the soldiers show up, the presidents will have to fight each other personally.  Don't go!  Are they gonna throw them ALL in the brig?"
 
2022-05-22 7:53:01 PM  

waxbeans: Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.


Fundamentally. Having to work your ass off all the time is part of the service. So, that's not the problem.

The problem is when you're working your ass off and the CO decides you're slacking off and need to work more.

The USN has a huge problem with overwork. It used to be that you'd get sent to a school posting for training, so you learn for 8 hours and have the rest of the time off. Now? You learn by watching DVDs, and you watch them in the copious free time you have between watchstanding, other duties and sleep.

Literally every USN accident on the last 15 years - and there have been a bunch of them - have exhaustion as a factor.

The reason this is happening? These sailors are being worked that hard AND expected to stand watches in port.

Any time this happens, it's a command problem. When shiatzforbrains SecNav relieved a CVN CO for complaining about the effects of COVID-19 on his crew, his crew chanted his name as he left the ship because he was trying to support them and the orange penis was mad.

This is a command problem. 100%. If your crew is literally killing  themselves, the problem is the command.

Always. Anyone telling you differently are frustrated slaveowners.
 
2022-05-22 7:53:42 PM  

zez: It's probably because of the uniforms. Seriously, why do they still dress like that?

[media.npr.org image 850x637]


To attract men.
 
2022-05-22 7:56:20 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: White nationalists joining to get some training then leaving to arm themselves for the race war they want to start?


If it's developing skills for a race war they're after, they'd be better off joining the Army or Navy.

What's going on is that during a ratpublican administration most the military budget goes to arms peddlers.    Very little money is actually spent on enlisted cannon fodder for useless things like food, medical care or housing.  When the Dems take over the media so nicely picks up on the horrendous conditions that enlisted personnel have to endure, but that same media seems to ignore the money trail of why there isn't enough food to feed enlisted personnel, despite the US having the largest military budget in the world by far.  The alternate facts media picks up from there and they conclude that Brandon is entirely at fault.  The majority of US Muricans believe it.  The Dems don't support our troops.
 
2022-05-22 7:57:49 PM  

Persnickety: Peter von Nostrand: White nationalists joining to get some training then leaving to arm themselves for the race war they want to start?

Yes. Likely because the coming race war will mostly be fought at sea.


You did notice I wrote white nationalists, right? Not exactly the brightest of the bunch.
 
2022-05-22 7:58:20 PM  

zez: It's probably because of the uniforms. Seriously, why do they still dress like that?

[media.npr.org image 850x637]


Second guy looks like he's wearing Dad's pajamas.

Also, dang...I want a minivan like the one on the left there.

/and for those of you wondering about the actual numbers of "more than doubled" it's 157 deserters. Out of which all but 8 rejoined their units. My guess is the 18-19 year old sailors self-choosing to extend their port stays with the women of negotiable affection are registered as deserters.
 
2022-05-22 8:00:29 PM  

waxbeans: Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.


Drydock (My experience with Drydock was the decommissioning of the USS Baton Rogue) To be honest, I am not sure why people would be "upset" About being in drydock, It is a lot like being on shore duty with lighter work hours, while still getting your sea-pay..
 
2022-05-22 8:00:47 PM  

Fissile: Peter von Nostrand: White nationalists joining to get some training then leaving to arm themselves for the race war they want to start?

If it's developing skills for a race war they're after, they'd be better off joining the Army or Navy.

What's going on is that during a ratpublican administration most the military budget goes to arms peddlers.    Very little money is actually spent on enlisted cannon fodder for useless things like food, medical care or housing.  When the Dems take over the media so nicely picks up on the horrendous conditions that enlisted personnel have to endure, but that same media seems to ignore the money trail of why there isn't enough food to feed enlisted personnel, despite the US having the largest military budget in the world by far.  The alternate facts media picks up from there and they conclude that Brandon is entirely at fault.  The majority of US Muricans believe it.  The Dems don't support our troops.


I know you want to sow dissent to take people's minds off Putin, but you're full of shiat.
 
2022-05-22 8:02:07 PM  
The highest desertion rate for the entire U.S. Army was in the early 1870s, when it was between 25% and 30%.  As in, thousands of deserters each year.
 
2022-05-22 8:03:22 PM  

duard: waxbeans: Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.

Drydock (My experience with Drydock was the decommissioning of the USS Baton Rogue) To be honest, I am not sure why people would be "upset" About being in drydock, It is a lot like being on shore duty with lighter work hours, while still getting your sea-pay..


If you're not decommissioning the crew has training requirements to complete, often team training, which takes people off the ship.  The people left on the ship have to pick up that slack.  Also you don't own your work spaces (probably) so that could be an issue.
Mostly you do get to go home every night though.
 
2022-05-22 8:03:33 PM  

waxbeans: Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.


The George Washington was/is a construction site. People were forced to live without working sanitation, no heat in winter, constant noise etc. lotta folks slept in their cars if they had one
 
2022-05-22 8:06:49 PM  

Resident Muslim: zez: It's probably because of the uniforms. Seriously, why do they still dress like that?

[media.npr.org image 850x637]

Second guy looks like he's wearing Dad's pajamas.

Also, dang...I want a minivan like the one on the left there.

/and for those of you wondering about the actual numbers of "more than doubled" it's 157 deserters. Out of which all but 8 rejoined their units. My guess is the 18-19 year old sailors self-choosing to extend their port stays with the women of negotiable affection are registered as deserters.


Used to be that if you were ua ( navy version of awol ) for more than 29 days, you were automatically upgraded to a deserter.
 
2022-05-22 8:09:03 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: waxbeans: Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.

Fundamentally. Having to work your ass off all the time is part of the service. So, that's not the problem.

The problem is when you're working your ass off and the CO decides you're slacking off and need to work more.

The USN has a huge problem with overwork. It used to be that you'd get sent to a school posting for training, so you learn for 8 hours and have the rest of the time off. Now? You learn by watching DVDs, and you watch them in the copious free time you have between watchstanding, other duties and sleep.

Literally every USN accident on the last 15 years - and there have been a bunch of them - have exhaustion as a factor.

The reason this is happening? These sailors are being worked that hard AND expected to stand watches in port.

Any time this happens, it's a command problem. When shiatzforbrains SecNav relieved a CVN CO for complaining about the effects of COVID-19 on his crew, his crew chanted his name as he left the ship because he was trying to support them and the orange penis was mad.

This is a command problem. 100%. If your crew is literally killing  themselves, the problem is the command.

Always. Anyone telling you differently are frustrated slaveowners.


Thank you.  And thanks.
 
2022-05-22 8:09:12 PM  

duard: waxbeans: Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.

Drydock (My experience with Drydock was the decommissioning of the USS Baton Rogue) To be honest, I am not sure why people would be "upset" About being in drydock, It is a lot like being on shore duty with lighter work hours, while still getting your sea-pay..


That dry dock chafes, man
 
2022-05-22 8:11:03 PM  

Persnickety: Peter von Nostrand: White nationalists joining to get some training then leaving to arm themselves for the race war they want to start?

Yes. Likely because the coming race war will mostly be fought at sea.


hah, brilliant
 
2022-05-22 8:11:07 PM  

johnny_vegas: duard: waxbeans: Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.

Drydock (My experience with Drydock was the decommissioning of the USS Baton Rogue) To be honest, I am not sure why people would be "upset" About being in drydock, It is a lot like being on shore duty with lighter work hours, while still getting your sea-pay..

If you're not decommissioning the crew has training requirements to complete, often team training, which takes people off the ship.  The people left on the ship have to pick up that slack.  Also you don't own your work spaces (probably) so that could be an issue.
Mostly you do get to go home every night though.


The news i saw said that's not the case. And that they are looking into letting them go to motel rooms at night.  Because of the deaths.
 
2022-05-22 8:11:26 PM  
They deserted because they knew it was their day for barrel duty
 
2022-05-22 8:12:02 PM  

TheDirtyNacho: waxbeans: Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.

The George Washington was/is a construction site. People were forced to live without working sanitation, no heat in winter, constant noise etc. lotta folks slept in their cars if they had one


Oooooooooooooo. Well that's farked and not what the job is.  I see.
 
2022-05-22 8:12:53 PM  
Life on board a ship is going to be a much bigger change for lots of kids now than it was in the past.  My father shared a room with 3 brothers when he was growing up so going off to a cramped ship wouldn't have been that much of a stress.  His grandkids all have their own rooms full of stuff and sharing a room with a bunch of other people would stress them out.

A friend works cruise ships and claims the staff rooms are far better than the Navy even though that wasn't the case on older ships not long ago.  In the Navy His bunk used to be under the landing area of&nbspcoont0 so a bit of noise and lack of space isn't go to effect his sleeping at all.  Because he has people working for him on the cruise ship, he has a private room often with a window.

Does anyone share a room with more than one other person in the USAF these days after basic training or odd training locations?
 
2022-05-22 8:13:51 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: waxbeans: Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.

Fundamentally. Having to work your ass off all the time is part of the service. So, that's not the problem.

The problem is when you're working your ass off and the CO decides you're slacking off and need to work more.

The USN has a huge problem with overwork. It used to be that you'd get sent to a school posting for training, so you learn for 8 hours and have the rest of the time off. Now? You learn by watching DVDs, and you watch them in the copious free time you have between watchstanding, other duties and sleep.

Literally every USN accident on the last 15 years - and there have been a bunch of them - have exhaustion as a factor.

The reason this is happening? These sailors are being worked that hard AND expected to stand watches in port.

Any time this happens, it's a command problem. When shiatzforbrains SecNav relieved a CVN CO for complaining about the effects of COVID-19 on his crew, his crew chanted his name as he left the ship because he was trying to support them and the orange penis was mad.

This is a command problem. 100%. If your crew is literally killing  themselves, the problem is the command.

Always. Anyone telling you differently are frustrated slaveowners.


The Navy, much more than the other services, has a long history going back hundreds of years under the British even before the USA existed, of coercion and brutal punishment that is indistinguishable from slavery. It is not surprising that some bits of that still exist today.
 
2022-05-22 8:14:09 PM  

johnny_vegas: Fissile: Peter von Nostrand: White nationalists joining to get some training then leaving to arm themselves for the race war they want to start?

If it's developing skills for a race war they're after, they'd be better off joining the Army or Navy.

What's going on is that during a ratpublican administration most the military budget goes to arms peddlers.    Very little money is actually spent on enlisted cannon fodder for useless things like food, medical care or housing.  When the Dems take over the media so nicely picks up on the horrendous conditions that enlisted personnel have to endure, but that same media seems to ignore the money trail of why there isn't enough food to feed enlisted personnel, despite the US having the largest military budget in the world by far.  The alternate facts media picks up from there and they conclude that Brandon is entirely at fault.  The majority of US Muricans believe it.  The Dems don't support our troops.

I know you want to sow dissent to take people's minds off Putin, but you're full of shiat.


Am I?  I've read quite a few of these stories about the conditions on some Navy ships.   Living conditions so bad even a landlord like Trump wouldn't try it in any of his buildings for fear of being thrown in jail.   Lack of adequate food, etc, etc.  Why?  Despite all the con-self-servative bullshiat about "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, DERP!", they think no more of 'our' troops than Putin thinks of his.

As for Putin, I'm no admirer of his.  I've been saying for a very long time that there would likely be no Putin if the West had behaved responsibly toward Russia after the collapse of the USSR.   Instead Dr. Wall Streetstein and his faithful servant Igor London decided to hack together this nasty little creature that they used to ravish Russia and 'integrate' the loot into the Western financial system.  Now their little monster has turned on them, and is threatening to break their bloody necks.  GO MONSTER! GO MONSTER! GO MONSTER!
 
2022-05-22 8:20:21 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: waxbeans: Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.

Fundamentally. Having to work your ass off all the time is part of the service. So, that's not the problem.

The problem is when you're working your ass off and the CO decides you're slacking off and need to work more.

The USN has a huge problem with overwork. It used to be that you'd get sent to a school posting for training, so you learn for 8 hours and have the rest of the time off. Now? You learn by watching DVDs, and you watch them in the copious free time you have between watchstanding, other duties and sleep.

Literally every USN accident on the last 15 years - and there have been a bunch of them - have exhaustion as a factor.

The reason this is happening? These sailors are being worked that hard AND expected to stand watches in port.

Any time this happens, it's a command problem. When shiatzforbrains SecNav relieved a CVN CO for complaining about the effects of COVID-19 on his crew, his crew chanted his name as he left the ship because he was trying to support them and the orange penis was mad.

This is a command problem. 100%. If your crew is literally killing  themselves, the problem is the command.

Always. Anyone telling you differently are frustrated slaveowners.


Sounds a lot like what happened in private industry up until Covid - the cult of "productivity" means treating human beings like machines, but human beings aren't machines.
 
2022-05-22 8:21:26 PM  
Enough naval gazing - how about some shoegazing!?

Catherine Wheel - Texture
Youtube a93CdqA72I8
 
2022-05-22 8:22:55 PM  

Fissile: johnny_vegas: Fissile: Peter von Nostrand: White nationalists joining to get some training then leaving to arm themselves for the race war they want to start?

If it's developing skills for a race war they're after, they'd be better off joining the Army or Navy.

What's going on is that during a ratpublican administration most the military budget goes to arms peddlers.    Very little money is actually spent on enlisted cannon fodder for useless things like food, medical care or housing.  When the Dems take over the media so nicely picks up on the horrendous conditions that enlisted personnel have to endure, but that same media seems to ignore the money trail of why there isn't enough food to feed enlisted personnel, despite the US having the largest military budget in the world by far.  The alternate facts media picks up from there and they conclude that Brandon is entirely at fault.  The majority of US Muricans believe it.  The Dems don't support our troops.

I know you want to sow dissent to take people's minds off Putin, but you're full of shiat.

Am I?  I've read quite a few of these stories about the conditions on some Navy ships.   Living conditions so bad even a landlord like Trump wouldn't try it in any of his buildings for fear of being thrown in jail.   Lack of adequate food, etc, etc.  Why?  Despite all the con-self-servative bullshiat about "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, DERP!", they think no more of 'our' troops than Putin thinks of his.

As for Putin, I'm no admirer of his.  I've been saying for a very long time that there would likely be no Putin if the West had behaved responsibly toward Russia after the collapse of the USSR.   Instead Dr. Wall Streetstein and his faithful servant Igor London decided to hack together this nasty little creature that they used to ravish Russia and 'integrate' the loot into the Western financial system.  Now their little monster has turned on them, and is threatening to break their bloody necks.  GO MONSTER! GO MONSTER! GO MONSTER!


yes you are. Taking Navy as an example,  ~ 20% of the budget goes to procurement.
 
2022-05-22 8:25:14 PM  
A bunch of seamen vanished?
 
2022-05-22 8:26:48 PM  
Glad I'm out 😊. Now I don't get a pension though.

/ Anyways, when I was in, I was  pulled through the numbers.  I was a "rag" squadron when I went in after our A school . So, First Lt is what is was called. for New recruits when I went to my first "assignment" near a year. You expect "stupid work" because you are a the lower totem pole because, of  ranks. Yet, it was before even a year in when I did any "maintenance" on the flight line. Mind you I scored higher on the asvab via coding but, to  work on helos  would be awesome. Sometimes, it comes down to crap assignments. Sometimes , it comes down you fall through the "cracks". Yet, I didn't chose the first assignment it was hoisted upon  me. Also, I was in a rank that was  overmanned by  a big percentage.  My story was decent  80/20 I don't regret it. It worked out well.
/ Just Imagine if that happened  after conflict, Trump, and the Major thing "Covid" .Imagine coming in at 18 years  old  TFG  and Irregardless of assignment you are out in the water you cannot go into port and you catch Covid because, you are in an in closed environment  which you can't leave. If you are lucky you have over a thousand  in a aircraft carrier. If, you  where assigned to a smaller ship 250- 500 that odds you caught covid.
/ Again glad I'm out.
 
2022-05-22 8:27:16 PM  

WillofJ2: A bunch of seamen vanished?


All socks will be checked immediately
 
2022-05-22 8:27:34 PM  
If the rum, the sodomy and even the mash just aren't your calling what's left to do but jump overboard and swim the fark away to a tropical island paradise?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-22 8:29:09 PM  

waxbeans: TheDirtyNacho: waxbeans: Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.

The George Washington was/is a construction site. People were forced to live without working sanitation, no heat in winter, constant noise etc. lotta folks slept in their cars if they had one

Oooooooooooooo. Well that's farked and not what the job is.  I see.


I saw an interview with a dude who was trained for landing aircraft had spent 2 years sitting on a bucket with a fire extinguisher while welders did work. It really is not what they signed up for
 
2022-05-22 8:30:07 PM  

DON.MAC: Life on board a ship is going to be a much bigger change for lots of kids now than it was in the past.  My father shared a room with 3 brothers when he was growing up so going off to a cramped ship wouldn't have been that much of a stress.  His grandkids all have their own rooms full of stuff and sharing a room with a bunch of other people would stress them out.

A friend works cruise ships and claims the staff rooms are far better than the Navy even though that wasn't the case on older ships not long ago.  In the Navy His bunk used to be under the landing area of coont0 so a bit of noise and lack of space isn't go to effect his sleeping at all.  Because he has people working for him on the cruise ship, he has a private room often with a window.

Does anyone share a room with more than one other person in the USAF these days after basic training or odd training locations?


/ probably not coffins aint no joke and the covid  probably put  people's  nerves on edge more
 
2022-05-22 8:31:06 PM  
Could it be that The Village People were wrong and the Navy won't be able to "put your mind at ease"?
 
2022-05-22 8:35:08 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-22 8:38:04 PM  

Fissile: johnny_vegas: Fissile: Peter von Nostrand: White nationalists joining to get some training then leaving to arm themselves for the race war they want to start?

If it's developing skills for a race war they're after, they'd be better off joining the Army or Navy.

What's going on is that during a ratpublican administration most the military budget goes to arms peddlers.    Very little money is actually spent on enlisted cannon fodder for useless things like food, medical care or housing.  When the Dems take over the media so nicely picks up on the horrendous conditions that enlisted personnel have to endure, but that same media seems to ignore the money trail of why there isn't enough food to feed enlisted personnel, despite the US having the largest military budget in the world by far.  The alternate facts media picks up from there and they conclude that Brandon is entirely at fault.  The majority of US Muricans believe it.  The Dems don't support our troops.

I know you want to sow dissent to take people's minds off Putin, but you're full of shiat.

Am I?  I've read quite a few of these stories about the conditions on some Navy ships.   Living conditions so bad even a landlord like Trump wouldn't try it in any of his buildings for fear of being thrown in jail.   Lack of adequate food, etc, etc.  Why?  Despite all the con-self-servative bullshiat about "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, DERP!", they think no more of 'our' troops than Putin thinks of his.

As for Putin, I'm no admirer of his.  I've been saying for a very long time that there would likely be no Putin if the West had behaved responsibly toward Russia after the collapse of the USSR.   Instead Dr. Wall Streetstein and his faithful servant Igor London decided to hack together this nasty little creature that they used to ravish Russia and 'integrate' the loot into the Western financial system.  Now their little monster has turned on them, and is threatening to break their bloody necks.  GO MONSTER! GO MONSTER! GO MONSTER!


You've been posting an awful lot of Russian apologist crap in the Ukraine threads for me to take any of that seriously
 
2022-05-22 8:43:44 PM  

Fano: You've been posting an awful lot of Russian apologist crap in the Ukraine threads for me to take any of that seriously


Where have I posted anything pro-Putin?   Show me.  Getting my schadenfreude on watching the blow-back from the West's arrogant and avaricious  Russia policy is very different from being pro-Putin.
 
2022-05-22 8:44:29 PM  
A) I haven't seen this much sea men since...
C) The view outside your mom's window...
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-22 8:45:11 PM  

TheDirtyNacho: waxbeans: TheDirtyNacho: waxbeans: Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.

The George Washington was/is a construction site. People were forced to live without working sanitation, no heat in winter, constant noise etc. lotta folks slept in their cars if they had one

Oooooooooooooo. Well that's farked and not what the job is.  I see.

I saw an interview with a dude who was trained for landing aircraft had spent 2 years sitting on a bucket with a fire extinguisher while welders did work. It really is not what they signed up for


That's the beauty of the military -- all was bodies are put to work.  Also, he did sign up for that work regardless of what training he received.
 
2022-05-22 9:00:05 PM  

Fissile: Fano: You've been posting an awful lot of Russian apologist crap in the Ukraine threads for me to take any of that seriously

Where have I posted anything pro-Putin?   Show me.  Getting my schadenfreude on watching the blow-back from the West's arrogant and avaricious  Russia policy is very different from being pro-Putin.


*mocking falsetto* "no, I'm some other kind of Russian stooge. I don't agree with Putin per se ".
 
2022-05-22 9:08:44 PM  

Chief Superintendent Lookout: TheDirtyNacho: waxbeans: TheDirtyNacho: waxbeans: Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.

The George Washington was/is a construction site. People were forced to live without working sanitation, no heat in winter, constant noise etc. lotta folks slept in their cars if they had one

Oooooooooooooo. Well that's farked and not what the job is.  I see.

I saw an interview with a dude who was trained for landing aircraft had spent 2 years sitting on a bucket with a fire extinguisher while welders did work. It really is not what they signed up for

That's the beauty of the military -- all was bodies are put to work.  Also, he did sign up for that work regardless of what training he received.


I get the military "Your job is whatever we tell you your job is", but do you think this is the best utilization of manpower? They couldn't rotate this assumingely needed function with others?
Unless the guy was dumb as a rock, not willing to learn or apply, I can't see any leader putting a staff member into such a job for such a long time*.
Him being trained in landing aircraft seems to show he has intelligence and application.

/*unless he bonked the general's daughter or something
 
2022-05-22 9:12:57 PM  
I'm surprised it's not higher in the Navy.  I have a child that was a nuke on a fast attack sub some years ago.  The schedule on Navy boats is grueling; between being on watch, trying to get qualified, etc., there are exactly zero hours left for actual sleeping, which you're expected to do in a rack alongside torpedoes in the torpedo room while they're doing drills. It resulted in a medical discharge because of sleepwalking, breathing apparatus in one hind, fire extinguisher in the other.
 
2022-05-22 9:15:10 PM  

Resident Muslim: Chief Superintendent Lookout: TheDirtyNacho: waxbeans: TheDirtyNacho: waxbeans: Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.

The George Washington was/is a construction site. People were forced to live without working sanitation, no heat in winter, constant noise etc. lotta folks slept in their cars if they had one

Oooooooooooooo. Well that's farked and not what the job is.  I see.

I saw an interview with a dude who was trained for landing aircraft had spent 2 years sitting on a bucket with a fire extinguisher while welders did work. It really is not what they signed up for

That's the beauty of the military -- all was bodies are put to work.  Also, he did sign up for that work regardless of what training he received.

I get the military "Your job is whatever we tell you your job is", but do you think this is the best utilization of manpower? They couldn't rotate this assumingely needed function with others?
Unless the guy was dumb as a rock, not willing to learn or apply, I can't see any leader putting a staff member into such a job for such a long time*.
Him being trained in landing aircraft seems to show he has intelligence and application.

/*unless he bonked the general's daughter or something


Ok, let me put it to you like this: the guy interviewed was assigned to the shop either just prior to the ship undergoing overhaul or during.  Either way, it is an appropriate use of manpower, because at that time the Navy needed people to stand Fire Watch.  You may not understand it, but either way people are needed to fulfill certain jobs regardless of their training.  This is just one example of many times he would be performing a job that has nothing to do with his training.  On board ship everyone enlisted under E4 does a tour mess cranking and also onloading provisions (which sucks on a carrier).  It's all part of the job (contract).
 
2022-05-22 9:24:04 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: waxbeans: Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.

Fundamentally. Having to work your ass off all the time is part of the service. So, that's not the problem.

The problem is when you're working your ass off and the CO decides you're slacking off and need to work more.

The USN has a huge problem with overwork. It used to be that you'd get sent to a school posting for training, so you learn for 8 hours and have the rest of the time off. Now? You learn by watching DVDs, and you watch them in the copious free time you have between watchstanding, other duties and sleep.

Literally every USN accident on the last 15 years - and there have been a bunch of them - have exhaustion as a factor.

The reason this is happening? These sailors are being worked that hard AND expected to stand watches in port.

Any time this happens, it's a command problem. When shiatzforbrains SecNav relieved a CVN CO for complaining about the effects of COVID-19 on his crew, his crew chanted his name as he left the ship because he was trying to support them and the orange penis was mad.

This is a command problem. 100%. If your crew is literally killing  themselves, the problem is the command.

Always. Anyone telling you differently are frustrated slaveowners.


This times a million.  Well said.  My former ship made the news a few years ago because the CO was handing out absurdly harsh punishments for minor infractions, and working the crew to bone for no tangible reason.  Well, the reason was that he was a Jesus freak, but anyways.  It culminated in a high profile desertion and a woefully unmotivated and unready crew.  Back in the 90's when i was on the ship, we worked hard, but we were treated well and respected by the COs and the senior command staff.  Even when we had shiatty work to do over extended periods, we were led by good people and we responded in kind.  Even the worst CO, XO, department head, or division offer i had (and I have a few good stories) felt like a gift compared to the assholes in charge now.I feel sorry for these kids.
 
2022-05-22 9:32:34 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: waxbeans: Anyone who's actually former navy, please, explain being upset about sitting in dry dock? TIA. Much appreciated.

Fundamentally. Having to work your ass off all the time is part of the service. So, that's not the problem.

The problem is when you're working your ass off and the CO decides you're slacking off and need to work more.

The USN has a huge problem with overwork. It used to be that you'd get sent to a school posting for training, so you learn for 8 hours and have the rest of the time off. Now? You learn by watching DVDs, and you watch them in the copious free time you have between watchstanding, other duties and sleep.

Literally every USN accident on the last 15 years - and there have been a bunch of them - have exhaustion as a factor.

The reason this is happening? These sailors are being worked that hard AND expected to stand watches in port.

Any time this happens, it's a command problem. When shiatzforbrains SecNav relieved a CVN CO for complaining about the effects of COVID-19 on his crew, his crew chanted his name as he left the ship because he was trying to support them and the orange penis was mad.

This is a command problem. 100%. If your crew is literally killing  themselves, the problem is the command.

Always. Anyone telling you differently are frustrated slaveowners.


As someone that went on back to back deployments to Persian Gulf 2011-13, this so much.  In fact, outside this post, a whole lotta of political stupidity, but this is spot on.
 
2022-05-22 9:37:21 PM  
I can totally understand the issue on the GW with the noise and bad conditions being not too different from the sleep deprivation tortures the CIA was famous for.  Heck, the sleep dep from having our first child nearly broke his mom and I, and that was only a couple of month's worth.

Clearly, the ships are under-manned because all the defense budget goes into hardware and when cuts are asked for it comes out of the human services side; base housing, pay, medical, etc.  I think it's a disgrace that any military family should need to go on food stamps just to make ends meet because the pay is so terrible. That's not "supporting the troops".

There needs to be, I think, an intermediate step between a dishonorable discharge and a medical discharge, where the service and the sailor both agree it's just not working out. Since it's a breaking of the contract, I don't know that the original full benefits should apply. Think of it as a no-fault divorce. Your DD-214 or whatever it is would say: "contract suspended by agreement" or something like that. Maybe call it a "reserve without recall status". I don't care what they call it.  It would be initiated by a commanding officer with input from the failed sailor's immediate superior. You agree to cancel all original obligations, the applicant forfeits pay and pension etc.   Still won't look good when applying for jobs elsewhere. But not as bad as a dishonorable or medical for mental breakdown.
 
2022-05-22 9:40:07 PM  
Upticking desertions and strings of suicides . . . maybe the Navy should consider cracking down on sexual assault.
 
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