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(AP News)   The Red State Dimbulb is approaching manufacturing obsolescence   (apnews.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, Trolleybus, New Flyer Industries, Pembina Mayor Mike Fitzgerald, Low-floor bus, North Dakota, Winnipeg, Articulated bus, transit bus manufacturing plant  
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2353 clicks; posted to Business » on 22 May 2022 at 8:00 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-05-22 8:22:29 AM  
Wow, I have more than a few memories of that plant.  Not from having gone to it ever in my life, but from having to fix the damn plant's network connection more than a few times.
 
2022-05-22 8:27:42 AM  
Pembina is only like 500 people and it's the largest town (only town?) For like 30+ miles so I gotta believe New Flyer was the only employer that isn't a grain elevator.

/live 60 miles south of there
 
2022-05-22 8:36:08 AM  

weddingsinger: Pembina is only like 500 people and it's the largest town (only town?) For like 30+ miles so I gotta believe New Flyer was the only employer that isn't a grain elevator.

/live 60 miles south of there


Border crossing is busy--wiki says "The Pembina-Emerson Border Crossing is the busiest between Blaine, Washington and Detroit, Michigan and the fifth busiest along the Canada-United States border"

Bustling business district, too--so they'll probably be ok.
 
2022-05-22 8:53:20 AM  

SecondaryControl: weddingsinger: Pembina is only like 500 people and it's the largest town (only town?) For like 30+ miles so I gotta believe New Flyer was the only employer that isn't a grain elevator.

/live 60 miles south of there

Border crossing is busy--wiki says "The Pembina-Emerson Border Crossing is the busiest between Blaine, Washington and Detroit, Michigan and the fifth busiest along the Canada-United States border"

Bustling business district, too--so they'll probably be ok.


Lol

As for the border crossing... a LOT of trucker traffic and depending on the Canadian dollar, etc, a fair number of shoppers who come down from Winnipeg.
 
2022-05-22 9:05:30 AM  
It's hard to rhyme a
Word like Pembina
Calvin Klein kinda
North Carolina
 
2022-05-22 9:09:37 AM  
From TFA: "The company told Fitzgerald that it was having difficulty finding qualified employees..."

Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.

Oh wait...
 
2022-05-22 9:20:35 AM  

SuperSeriousMan: From TFA: "The company told Fitzgerald that it was having difficulty finding qualified employees..."

Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.

Oh wait...


And nobody wants to go to North Dakota.
 
2022-05-22 9:30:17 AM  

SuperSeriousMan: From TFA: "The company told Fitzgerald that it was having difficulty finding qualified employees..."

Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.

Oh wait...


It's not like the area was any more liberal or educated in 1963 than it is now. People actually used to move to places like this for the jobs because they paid better than staying on the farm.
 
DVD
2022-05-22 9:32:43 AM  
"Difficulty finding qualified employees"

Translation: don't want to actually pay anyone anything worthwhile.
 
2022-05-22 9:49:00 AM  
I just did a deep dive on North Dakota, the Dakota I new the least about, in an effort to understand the roots of this story and difference between ND and MInnesota. (In honesty, all I know about MN is there are lots of lakes and Prince was from Minneapolis.)

Subby might be onto something about the politics contributing to their issues attracting qualified personnel.

ND is definitely more conservative than MN:
Fark user imageView Full Size

And as far as population, looks like Pembina Co. is pretty sparse in an incredibly sparse state:
Fark user imageView Full Size

Education wise, MN and ND actually compare pretty similarly as far as % attaining at least and AA or 2-yr technical degree. But the numbers in that category certainly tip toward MN. So you have to be able to attract folks to Pembina.

New Flyer recently launched an aggressive program to increase their corporate diversity through community outreach and training/other programs. ND is not a diverse state (87% white, overwhelmingly Christian) compared to MN.

And looking at the job postings at New Flyer in MN, I didn't see anything that to my eyes couldn't be handled with training other than maybe some requiring more computer and electrical system experience that would need to be achieved from another similar company in the state.

Given they already had an operation in MN, I think they soon realized they would have more success attracting and retaining a diverse, technically-qualified workforce in a new plant in MN than they would getting that workforce to move a highly-conservative country cracker outpost in northeast ND.

I feel for the folks in Pembina. I reckon this could be a trend across the country, and unless a deep-red state already has the numbers and diversity like Florida or Texas, manufacturers that value diversity will likely pass them by.

That's an outsider's view based on 30-minutes of online research, so I welcome a different perspective from any knowers in the know.
 
2022-05-22 10:04:05 AM  

DVD: "Difficulty finding qualified employees"

Translation: don't want to actually pay anyone anything worthwhile.


Alternate translation: local pool of potential employees leave a wee bit to be desired:

i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2022-05-22 10:15:25 AM  
Seems a mild nothingburger story and non news. The manufacturing world changed, nobody wants to live in middle of nowhere ND, company cannot adapt or can't/won't pay people enough to live there. Nothing to see here.

Sucks for the employees there, but, sorry it's not 1963 anymore? Y'all signed up for the capitalism, can't hardly be mad when the investment experiment doesn't always last forever.
 
2022-05-22 10:31:21 AM  
Family Guy - Advertising North Dakota
Youtube yINXvy2AEoY
 
2022-05-22 10:42:22 AM  

The Smails Kid: It's hard to rhyme a
Word like Pembina
Calvin Klein kinda
North Carolina


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-22 10:53:27 AM  

SuperSeriousMan: From TFA: "The company told Fitzgerald that it was having difficulty finding qualified employees..."

Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.

Oh wait...


That's part of it, but there is more to this.   The reality is that manufacturing no longer needs dumb guys with strong backs who spend the day bolting wheels on to F-150s, robots do that now.  Manufacturing requires fewer workers with more skills and education.   In US Murica, people who have those skills and education don't want to work in a factory.   This means that manufacturing is done in places where people don't view a factory job as beneath them...Europe and Asia.   Buba and Cletus, who are both suffering from Dunning-Kruger, can't understand that they wouldn't have a factory job even if those factories were in the US because they're not smart enough to work in a modern, high-tech factory.  Instead they blame Brandon, and the Red-Blue divide increases.
 
2022-05-22 11:08:11 AM  

Fissile: SuperSeriousMan: From TFA: "The company told Fitzgerald that it was having difficulty finding qualified employees..."

Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.

Oh wait...

That's part of it, but there is more to this.   The reality is that manufacturing no longer needs dumb guys with strong backs who spend the day bolting wheels on to F-150s, robots do that now.  Manufacturing requires fewer workers with more skills and education.   In US Murica, people who have those skills and education don't want to work in a factory.   This means that manufacturing is done in places where people don't view a factory job as beneath them...Europe India and Asia.   Buba and Cletus, who are both suffering from Dunning-Kruger, can't understand that they wouldn't have a factory job even if those factories were in the US because they're not smart enough to work in a modern, high-tech factory.  Instead they blame Brandon, and the Red-Blue divide increases.


FTFY
 
2022-05-22 11:17:09 AM  

deadsanta: Fissile: SuperSeriousMan: From TFA: "The company told Fitzgerald that it was having difficulty finding qualified employees..."

Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.

Oh wait...

That's part of it, but there is more to this.   The reality is that manufacturing no longer needs dumb guys with strong backs who spend the day bolting wheels on to F-150s, robots do that now.  Manufacturing requires fewer workers with more skills and education.   In US Murica, people who have those skills and education don't want to work in a factory.   This means that manufacturing is done in places where people don't view a factory job as beneath them...Europe India and Asia.   Buba and Cletus, who are both suffering from Dunning-Kruger, can't understand that they wouldn't have a factory job even if those factories were in the US because they're not smart enough to work in a modern, high-tech factory.  Instead they blame Brandon, and the Red-Blue divide increases.

FTFY


There is surprisingly large amounts of manufacturing still done in Europe in places like Romania.
 
2022-05-22 11:17:28 AM  

Fissile: SuperSeriousMan: From TFA: "The company told Fitzgerald that it was having difficulty finding qualified employees..."
Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.
Oh wait...
That's part of it, but there is more to this.   The reality is that manufacturing no longer needs dumb guys with strong backs who spend the day bolting wheels on to F-150s, robots do that now.  Manufacturing requires fewer workers with more skills and education.   In US Murica, people who have those skills and education don't want to work in a factory.   This means that manufacturing is done in places where people don't view a factory job as beneath them...Europe and Asia.   Buba and Cletus, who are both suffering from Dunning-Kruger, can't understand that they wouldn't have a factory job even if those factories were in the US because they're not smart enough to work in a modern, high-tech factory.  Instead they blame Brandon, and the Red-Blue divide increases.


How do you know?  I live among the stupid, and I've never heard anything like that.  None of the poors ever gave me a hint that they wouldn't work in a (relatively) good-paying factory job.  They wanted a factory in their town, so they could get some decent jobs. There's no politics to it.  They need a job.  One could be provided.  They would apply for it .

Maybe that's just your privilege and the upper class snobbery  talking.  YOU wouldn't work in a factory. Libs don't work in factories--lord no!  They're out doing important work--"launching a product" or some such garbage.  They know how the economic and social  ladder works, and marketing is noble work.  Providing a useful  service is so....so plebian.  How could you?  Like a farmer?

Well-rounded libs went to college, and they don't do brute labor.  They do manipulation, so that half the population of the country starts talking like you.  And you KNOW that those stupid red staters are the cause of all your woes.
 
2022-05-22 11:19:55 AM  

WhiskeyTeat: I just did a deep dive on North Dakota, the Dakota I new the least about, in an effort to understand the roots of this story and difference between ND and MInnesota. (In honesty, all I know about MN is there are lots of lakes and Prince was from Minneapolis.)

Subby might be onto something about the politics contributing to their issues attracting qualified personnel.

ND is definitely more conservative than MN:
[Fark user image image 425x327]
And as far as population, looks like Pembina Co. is pretty sparse in an incredibly sparse state:
[Fark user image image 425x336]
Education wise, MN and ND actually compare pretty similarly as far as % attaining at least and AA or 2-yr technical degree. But the numbers in that category certainly tip toward MN. So you have to be able to attract folks to Pembina.

New Flyer recently launched an aggressive program to increase their corporate diversity through community outreach and training/other programs. ND is not a diverse state (87% white, overwhelmingly Christian) compared to MN.

And looking at the job postings at New Flyer in MN, I didn't see anything that to my eyes couldn't be handled with training other than maybe some requiring more computer and electrical system experience that would need to be achieved from another similar company in the state.

Given they already had an operation in MN, I think they soon realized they would have more success attracting and retaining a diverse, technically-qualified workforce in a new plant in MN than they would getting that workforce to move a highly-conservative country cracker outpost in northeast ND.

I feel for the folks in Pembina. I reckon this could be a trend across the country, and unless a deep-red state already has the numbers and diversity like Florida or Texas, manufacturers that value diversity will likely pass them by.

That's an outsider's view based on 30-minutes of online research, so I welcome a different perspective from any knowers in the know.


How old is that map?  GA needs an update (unless the election really was rigged)
 
2022-05-22 11:24:43 AM  

cryinoutloud: Fissile: SuperSeriousMan: From TFA: "The company told Fitzgerald that it was having difficulty finding qualified employees..."
Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.
Oh wait...
That's part of it, but there is more to this.   The reality is that manufacturing no longer needs dumb guys with strong backs who spend the day bolting wheels on to F-150s, robots do that now.  Manufacturing requires fewer workers with more skills and education.   In US Murica, people who have those skills and education don't want to work in a factory.   This means that manufacturing is done in places where people don't view a factory job as beneath them...Europe and Asia.   Buba and Cletus, who are both suffering from Dunning-Kruger, can't understand that they wouldn't have a factory job even if those factories were in the US because they're not smart enough to work in a modern, high-tech factory.  Instead they blame Brandon, and the Red-Blue divide increases.

How do you know?  I live among the stupid, and I've never heard anything like that.  None of the poors ever gave me a hint that they wouldn't work in a (relatively) good-paying factory job.  They wanted a factory in their town, so they could get some decent jobs. There's no politics to it.  They need a job.  One could be provided.  They would apply for it .

Maybe that's just your privilege and the upper class snobbery  talking.  YOU wouldn't work in a factory. Libs don't work in factories--lord no!  They're out doing important work--"launching a product" or some such garbage.  They know how the economic and social  ladder works, and marketing is noble work.  Providing a useful  service is so....so plebian.  How could you?  Like a farmer?

Well-rounded libs went to college, and they don't do brute labor.  They do manipulation, so that half the population of the country starts talking like you.  And you KNOW that those stupid red staters are the cause of a ...


You are missing my point entirely.  Americans who have the skills and education to work in a modern manufacturing plant don't want to work in manufacturing.

I'm sure there are lots of Cleti who would jump at the chance at a good paying factory gig...problem is they don't have the education or skills for the job, so those jobs go to Europeans and Asians.  Cletus then biataches how the libs sent 'his' job overseas.
 
2022-05-22 11:34:18 AM  

DVD: "Difficulty finding qualified employees"

Translation: don't want to actually pay anyone anything worthwhile.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-22 12:25:21 PM  

azwethnkweiz: WhiskeyTeat: I just did a deep dive on North Dakota, the Dakota I new the least about, in an effort to understand the roots of this story and difference between ND and MInnesota. (In honesty, all I know about MN is there are lots of lakes and Prince was from Minneapolis.)

Subby might be onto something about the politics contributing to their issues attracting qualified personnel.

ND is definitely more conservative than MN:
[Fark user image image 425x327]
And as far as population, looks like Pembina Co. is pretty sparse in an incredibly sparse state:
[Fark user image image 425x336]
Education wise, MN and ND actually compare pretty similarly as far as % attaining at least and AA or 2-yr technical degree. But the numbers in that category certainly tip toward MN. So you have to be able to attract folks to Pembina.

New Flyer recently launched an aggressive program to increase their corporate diversity through community outreach and training/other programs. ND is not a diverse state (87% white, overwhelmingly Christian) compared to MN.

And looking at the job postings at New Flyer in MN, I didn't see anything that to my eyes couldn't be handled with training other than maybe some requiring more computer and electrical system experience that would need to be achieved from another similar company in the state.

Given they already had an operation in MN, I think they soon realized they would have more success attracting and retaining a diverse, technically-qualified workforce in a new plant in MN than they would getting that workforce to move a highly-conservative country cracker outpost in northeast ND.

I feel for the folks in Pembina. I reckon this could be a trend across the country, and unless a deep-red state already has the numbers and diversity like Florida or Texas, manufacturers that value diversity will likely pass them by.

That's an outsider's view based on 30-minutes of online research, so I welcome a different perspective from any knowers in the know.

How old is that map?  GA needs an update (unless the election really was rigged)


Heh, good catch! The article I used was from 2022, but the source THEY used for the map was from 2019.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/most-conservative-states
 
2022-05-22 12:45:22 PM  

cryinoutloud: None of the poors ever gave me a hint that they wouldn't work in a (relatively) good-paying factory job. They wanted a factory in their town, so they could get some decent jobs. There's no politics to it. They need a job. One could be provided. They would apply for it .


Tell them to be doctors. It's not like jobs require training or skills or anything.
 
2022-05-22 12:51:46 PM  

Fissile: cryinoutloud: Fissile: SuperSeriousMan: From TFA: "The company told Fitzgerald that it was having difficulty finding qualified employees..."
Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.
Oh wait...
That's part of it, but there is more to this.   The reality is that manufacturing no longer needs dumb guys with strong backs who spend the day bolting wheels on to F-150s, robots do that now.  Manufacturing requires fewer workers with more skills and education.   In US Murica, people who have those skills and education don't want to work in a factory.   This means that manufacturing is done in places where people don't view a factory job as beneath them...Europe and Asia.   Buba and Cletus, who are both suffering from Dunning-Kruger, can't understand that they wouldn't have a factory job even if those factories were in the US because they're not smart enough to work in a modern, high-tech factory.  Instead they blame Brandon, and the Red-Blue divide increases.

How do you know?  I live among the stupid, and I've never heard anything like that.  None of the poors ever gave me a hint that they wouldn't work in a (relatively) good-paying factory job.  They wanted a factory in their town, so they could get some decent jobs. There's no politics to it.  They need a job.  One could be provided.  They would apply for it .

Maybe that's just your privilege and the upper class snobbery  talking.  YOU wouldn't work in a factory. Libs don't work in factories--lord no!  They're out doing important work--"launching a product" or some such garbage.  They know how the economic and social  ladder works, and marketing is noble work.  Providing a useful  service is so....so plebian.  How could you?  Like a farmer?

Well-rounded libs went to college, and they don't do brute labor.  They do manipulation, so that half the population of the country starts talking like you.  And you KNOW that those stupid red staters are ...


It's the pay.  If the pay was high enough I would move there.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-22 1:00:03 PM  

thorpe: cryinoutloud: None of the poors ever gave me a hint that they wouldn't work in a (relatively) good-paying factory job. They wanted a factory in their town, so they could get some decent jobs. There's no politics to it. They need a job. One could be provided. They would apply for it .

Tell them to be doctors. It's not like jobs require training or skills or anything.


That's pretty much it.

I know of employers...mostly tech..that abuse the H1-B program because they don't want to pay.   I also know employers who need people in the US because the job can't be outsourced, yet they can't find suitable applicants.  Case in point, UPS drivers:  Median salary for an experienced UPS drive is $65K plus benefits.  $65K is not a middle class wage, but it will keep a roof over head and food on the table.  I know someone who recently retired from UPS who told me they can't find drivers.  It's not that they don't get applicants, they do, lots of them.   Problem is that large numbers  of the applicants can't get to through the initial screening process...criminal records, bad driving records, etc.  Most of the rest can't be trained.   Yup, people whose skill set is so limited they can't be trained to deliver packages.
 
2022-05-22 1:00:50 PM  

SuperSeriousMan: Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.

Oh wait...


It's interesting to note that the residents haven't looted and burned the joint flat because of this "injustice ".

Gee.....
 
2022-05-22 1:13:04 PM  

cryinoutloud: Maybe that's just your privilege and the upper class snobbery talking. YOU wouldn't work in a factory. Libs don't work in factories--lord no! They're out doing important work--"launching a product" or some such garbage. They know how the economic and social ladder works, and marketing is noble work. Providing a useful service is so....so plebian. How could you? Like a farmer?


Swing and a miss there, Scooter.

Cletus WANTS to work in a factory. His piece of crap town wants it very very much. The problem is that his piece of crap town, by virtue of being a piece of crap town, doesn't have the capacity to handle that factory. Not just land, but utilities and internet and a workforce capable of employing the skills that are necessary to succeed in that factory.

And rural areas are overwhelmingly stupid. People with the brains and resources to get out DO get out.

You want a shining example of why the hinterlands are screwed? Look at the northeast. In the early days of the country, they had shipwrights, sail makers, ironsmiths for parts, fish curing, fresh water treatment, whores for the men, liquor, and all the other trappings of an industrial base. Then the market changed and those places had to make a choice.

Fast forward 150 years and you have two divergent outcomes.

1. "Hey folks, I saw your out of state license plate. You should really go check out the old lighthouse museum. It's right up the road from your bed and breakfast. Thanks for visiting!"

2. "Man, someone should really tear down that old lighthouse. That thing is dangerous AND an eyesore."

The Cletii want all the benefits of number 1 without any of the work or thought or sacrifice that will entail to get there. So they end up with number 2 and get pissy about their own crappy decisions.
 
2022-05-22 1:15:34 PM  

Fissile: SuperSeriousMan: From TFA: "The company told Fitzgerald that it was having difficulty finding qualified employees..."

Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.

Oh wait...

That's part of it, but there is more to this.   The reality is that manufacturing no longer needs dumb guys with strong backs who spend the day bolting wheels on to F-150s, robots do that now.  Manufacturing requires fewer workers with more skills and education.   In US Murica, people who have those skills and education don't want to work in a factory.   This means that manufacturing is done in places where people don't view a factory job as beneath them...Europe and Asia.   Buba and Cletus, who are both suffering from Dunning-Kruger, can't understand that they wouldn't have a factory job even if those factories were in the US because they're not smart enough to work in a modern, high-tech factory.  Instead they blame Brandon, and the Red-Blue divide increases.


The problem there being that the US cannot and will not stop making people like that, so we're in for a permanent skills mismatch.
 
2022-05-22 1:19:50 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Swing and a miss there, Scooter.

Cletus WANTS to work in a factory. His piece of crap town wants it very very much.


This post is a level of unbridled arrogance, indifference and conceit that I haven't seen in a while.
 
2022-05-22 2:02:10 PM  
Interesting thread, as an educated and sort of trapped maintenance tech in a large factory.   Mid Pennsylvania, several industries all desperate for quality employees and as I drive home every night (I mean nearly every night as I average about 3000 hours a yr) I think about the trashy looking cars covered in flag stickers and the coworkers who say "I'd never work your job, too much forcing!"  When in reality, it's "I can't even get close to passing the tests to get into your job."

I'd like to add that it depends on the theater you're in.   I'm accused of being a dirty lib here every day (hey, know any one that could take some hours?  Please?).  But when out with my friends often I'm the jerk conservative.  I'm assuming that's my take home from working a lot, just don't have time to deal with fluff.

Anyway, I don't have the answers but I've got some observations.   Like if you're going to yell personal responsibility, you best at least try to take some responsibility for yourself and your actions.
 
2022-05-22 2:10:12 PM  

pdieten: Fissile: SuperSeriousMan: From TFA: "The company told Fitzgerald that it was having difficulty finding qualified employees..."

Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.

Oh wait...

That's part of it, but there is more to this.   The reality is that manufacturing no longer needs dumb guys with strong backs who spend the day bolting wheels on to F-150s, robots do that now.  Manufacturing requires fewer workers with more skills and education.   In US Murica, people who have those skills and education don't want to work in a factory.   This means that manufacturing is done in places where people don't view a factory job as beneath them...Europe and Asia.   Buba and Cletus, who are both suffering from Dunning-Kruger, can't understand that they wouldn't have a factory job even if those factories were in the US because they're not smart enough to work in a modern, high-tech factory.  Instead they blame Brandon, and the Red-Blue divide increases.

The problem there being that the US cannot and will not stop making people like that, so we're in for a permanent skills mismatch.


This is true.  In civilized countries public education works closely with business and industry to provided people with skills that modern business needs.  In US Murica?   The rich don't want to pay taxes for education and have convinced a significant percentage of the population that public education makes baby Jeebus cry.   Things have gotten so bad that the military rejects over 80% of would be recruits because they totally lack the aptitude to be part of a modern, high-tech military organization.
 
2022-05-22 2:40:42 PM  

Fissile: pdieten: Fissile: SuperSeriousMan: From TFA: "The company told Fitzgerald that it was having difficulty finding qualified employees..."

Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.

Oh wait...

That's part of it, but there is more to this.   The reality is that manufacturing no longer needs dumb guys with strong backs who spend the day bolting wheels on to F-150s, robots do that now.  Manufacturing requires fewer workers with more skills and education.   In US Murica, people who have those skills and education don't want to work in a factory.   This means that manufacturing is done in places where people don't view a factory job as beneath them...Europe and Asia.   Buba and Cletus, who are both suffering from Dunning-Kruger, can't understand that they wouldn't have a factory job even if those factories were in the US because they're not smart enough to work in a modern, high-tech factory.  Instead they blame Brandon, and the Red-Blue divide increases.

The problem there being that the US cannot and will not stop making people like that, so we're in for a permanent skills mismatch.

This is true.  In civilized countries public education works closely with business and industry to provided people with skills that modern business needs.  In US Murica?   The rich don't want to pay taxes for education and have convinced a significant percentage of the population that public education makes baby Jeebus cry.   Things have gotten so bad that the military rejects over 80% of would be recruits because they totally lack the aptitude to be part of a modern, high-tech military organization.


That and the students and the environment they grow up in have to learn to value being educated even if that doesn't lead to college. Cletus didn't spring from the womb with this attitude. He learned that from those around him and the real problem is that it's spreading.
 
2022-05-22 2:46:39 PM  

Fissile: Things have gotten so bad that the military rejects over 80% of would be recruits because they totally lack the aptitude to be part of a modern, high-tech military organization.


I'd like to see a cite about that 80%, but nevermind.

Perhaps it's because "reading, writing and arithmetic " has been dumbed down to zero?

Einstein developed the Theory of Relativity with nothing more than pencil, paper, chalk, chalkboard and a slide rule.

These days, school administrators and teachers scream bloody murder if their "smart boards" aren't the latest in HDTV resolution.

I could launch a manifesto about Michigan schools, but I'm as lazy as they are.  Suffice to say that economies of scale are completely ignored in deference to the union noisemakers, and good money is being thrown out the window to maintain the status quo as well as the zeitgeist du jour.
 
2022-05-22 3:31:24 PM  

PR Deltoid: I could launch a manifesto about Michigan schools, but I'm as lazy as they are. Suffice to say that economies of scale are completely ignored in deference to the union noisemakers, and good money is being thrown out the window to maintain the status quo as well as the zeitgeist du jour.


So lots of people in the US are uneducated because of ........ unions?
Interesting take, comrade.
 
2022-05-22 3:50:57 PM  

Fissile: thorpe: cryinoutloud: None of the poors ever gave me a hint that they wouldn't work in a (relatively) good-paying factory job. They wanted a factory in their town, so they could get some decent jobs. There's no politics to it. They need a job. One could be provided. They would apply for it .

Tell them to be doctors. It's not like jobs require training or skills or anything.

That's pretty much it.

I know of employers...mostly tech..that abuse the H1-B program because they don't want to pay.   I also know employers who need people in the US because the job can't be outsourced, yet they can't find suitable applicants.  Case in point, UPS drivers:  Median salary for an experienced UPS drive is $65K plus benefits.  $65K is not a middle class wage, but it will keep a roof over head and food on the table.  I know someone who recently retired from UPS who told me they can't find drivers.  It's not that they don't get applicants, they do, lots of them.   Problem is that large numbers  of the applicants can't get to through the initial screening process...criminal records, bad driving records, etc.  Most of the rest can't be trained.   Yup, people whose skill set is so limited they can't be trained to deliver packages.


Is that really true?  When I inquired about 20 years ago I was told they only had seasonal part time jobs and you needed to work there a few years to get to part time and then about 8 years to get into a full time job.

On their website they don't post any pay info for drivers.
 
2022-05-22 4:07:20 PM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Fissile: cryinoutloud: Fissile: SuperSeriousMan: From TFA: "The company told Fitzgerald that it was having difficulty finding qualified employees..."
Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.
Oh wait...
That's part of it, but there is more to this.   The reality is that manufacturing no longer needs dumb guys with strong backs who spend the day bolting wheels on to F-150s, robots do that now.  Manufacturing requires fewer workers with more skills and education.   In US Murica, people who have those skills and education don't want to work in a factory.   This means that manufacturing is done in places where people don't view a factory job as beneath them...Europe and Asia.   Buba and Cletus, who are both suffering from Dunning-Kruger, can't understand that they wouldn't have a factory job even if those factories were in the US because they're not smart enough to work in a modern, high-tech factory.  Instead they blame Brandon, and the Red-Blue divide increases.

How do you know?  I live among the stupid, and I've never heard anything like that.  None of the poors ever gave me a hint that they wouldn't work in a (relatively) good-paying factory job.  They wanted a factory in their town, so they could get some decent jobs. There's no politics to it.  They need a job.  One could be provided.  They would apply for it .

Maybe that's just your privilege and the upper class snobbery  talking.  YOU wouldn't work in a factory. Libs don't work in factories--lord no!  They're out doing important work--"launching a product" or some such garbage.  They know how the economic and social  ladder works, and marketing is noble work.  Providing a useful  service is so....so plebian.  How could you?  Like a farmer?

Well-rounded libs went to college, and they don't do brute labor.  They do manipulation, so that half the population of the country starts talking like you.  And you KNOW that those stupid red sta ...


But that's for what's essentially an entry level job on the production line. $18.25 is really good pay for a job that you pretty much only need a high school diploma for in that area. Not pack up and move there good but still pretty good.
 
2022-05-22 4:10:42 PM  
Even if the wages were amazing, the idea of relocating to a town that is almost 100% reliant on a single industry is just too risky in an age where mass layoffs are undertaken to get a $1/share bump in the stock price.  An are with more economic diversity is way safer and typically offers a better quality of life.
 
2022-05-22 4:11:09 PM  

Fissile: thorpe: cryinoutloud: None of the poors ever gave me a hint that they wouldn't work in a (relatively) good-paying factory job. They wanted a factory in their town, so they could get some decent jobs. There's no politics to it. They need a job. One could be provided. They would apply for it .

Tell them to be doctors. It's not like jobs require training or skills or anything.

That's pretty much it.

I know of employers...mostly tech..that abuse the H1-B program because they don't want to pay.   I also know employers who need people in the US because the job can't be outsourced, yet they can't find suitable applicants.  Case in point, UPS drivers:  Median salary for an experienced UPS drive is $65K plus benefits.  $65K is not a middle class wage, but it will keep a roof over head and food on the table.  I know someone who recently retired from UPS who told me they can't find drivers.  It's not that they don't get applicants, they do, lots of them.   Problem is that large numbers  of the applicants can't get to through the initial screening process...criminal records, bad driving records, etc.  Most of the rest can't be trained.   Yup, people whose skill set is so limited they can't be trained to deliver packages.


$65k is absolutely a middle class wage, especially for people without a college degree.

content.fortune.comView Full Size
 
2022-05-22 4:11:58 PM  

thorpe: So lots of people in the US are uneducated because of ........ unions?
Interesting take, comrade.


Umm,...yeah!

Money spent on Union mandated bread and circuses instead of focusing on the core mission.
 
2022-05-22 4:13:29 PM  
If you're making $65k a year as a UPS driver outside of either coast - you're doing about as well as most teachers!

https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/public-school-teacher-salary/tx#:~:text=How%20much%20does%20a%20Public,falls%20between%20%2452%2C328%20and%20%2469%2C219.
 
2022-05-22 5:36:18 PM  

PR Deltoid: Fissile: Things have gotten so bad that the military rejects over 80% of would be recruits because they totally lack the aptitude to be part of a modern, high-tech military organization.

I'd like to see a cite about that 80%, but nevermind.

Perhaps it's because "reading, writing and arithmetic " has been dumbed down to zero?

Einstein developed the Theory of Relativity with nothing more than pencil, paper, chalk, chalkboard and a slide rule.

These days, school administrators and teachers scream bloody murder if their "smart boards" aren't the latest in HDTV resolution.

I could launch a manifesto about Michigan schools, but I'm as lazy as they are.  Suffice to say that economies of scale are completely ignored in deference to the union noisemakers, and good money is being thrown out the window to maintain the status quo as well as the zeitgeist du jour.


I was wrong.  It's not 80% of wannabe military recruits that are rejected.  71% of all youth of military age in the US can not meet the basic standards to join the military.   https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/14/military-service-most-young-people-dont-qualify-careers/3665840002/
 
2022-05-22 5:50:07 PM  

Fissile: I was wrong.  It's not 80% of wannabe military recruits that are rejected.  71% of all youth of military age in the US can not meet the basic standards to join the military.   https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/14/military-service-most-young-people-dont-qualify-careers/3665840002/


OK.

This furthers my point.   Schools (and the union) want MORE MORE MORE money every year and they're apparently turning out graduates who aren't smart enough to get a job peeling potatoes in the military.
 
2022-05-22 7:59:13 PM  

PR Deltoid: Fissile: I was wrong.  It's not 80% of wannabe military recruits that are rejected.  71% of all youth of military age in the US can not meet the basic standards to join the military.   https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/14/military-service-most-young-people-dont-qualify-careers/3665840002/

OK.

This furthers my point.   Schools (and the union) want MORE MORE MORE money every year and they're apparently turning out graduates who aren't smart enough to get a job peeling potatoes in the military.


FTFA:

obesity, no high school diploma or a criminal record

The school generally supplies healthy food in healthy quantities, expects its students to stay in school, and does not encourage students to commit crimes. Unless you turn every urban school in the country into a boarding school to eliminate the shiatty influences in their home lives, I'm not certain what else you can ask the school to do even if it's operating in the best interests of its tenured staff rather than the students.
 
2022-05-22 8:06:32 PM  

PR Deltoid: turning out graduates who aren't smart enough to get a job peeling potatoes in the military.


But they will be able to work for the contractor that provides peeled potatoes to the military, just without the benefits and opportunity for advancement.
 
2022-05-22 8:22:42 PM  

cryinoutloud: Fissile: SuperSeriousMan: From TFA: "The company told Fitzgerald that it was having difficulty finding qualified employees..."
Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.
Oh wait...
That's part of it, but there is more to this.   The reality is that manufacturing no longer needs dumb guys with strong backs who spend the day bolting wheels on to F-150s, robots do that now.  Manufacturing requires fewer workers with more skills and education.   In US Murica, people who have those skills and education don't want to work in a factory.   This means that manufacturing is done in places where people don't view a factory job as beneath them...Europe and Asia.   Buba and Cletus, who are both suffering from Dunning-Kruger, can't understand that they wouldn't have a factory job even if those factories were in the US because they're not smart enough to work in a modern, high-tech factory.  Instead they blame Brandon, and the Red-Blue divide increases.

How do you know?  I live among the stupid, and I've never heard anything like that.  None of the poors ever gave me a hint that they wouldn't work in a (relatively) good-paying factory job.  They wanted a factory in their town, so they could get some decent jobs. There's no politics to it.  They need a job.  One could be provided.  They would apply for it .

Maybe that's just your privilege and the upper class snobbery  talking.  YOU wouldn't work in a factory. Libs don't work in factories--lord no!  They're out doing important work--"launching a product" or some such garbage.  They know how the economic and social  ladder works, and marketing is noble work.  Providing a useful  service is so....so plebian.  How could you?  Like a farmer?

Well-rounded libs went to college, and they don't do brute labor.  They do manipulation, so that half the population of the country starts talking like you.  And you KNOW that those stupid red staters are the cause of all your woes.


No, the problem is that factories don't need idiots without degrees anymore. At least not nearly to the level that they once did. So all those wonderful "real Americans" who would love a job in a factory are literally too ignorant to get one, because the factory jobs available now require at the very least trades skills like machining, but more often a true technical degree like engineering. And it's not that "libs" don't want to work in factories -- it's that people with the kind of advanced degrees that factories require don't want to work in factories, because factory jobs suck. They're repetitive, located far from good schools and good amenities, they're hiring, and they pay much less than a robotics engineer, for example, could get in R&D.

This was pretty obvious in the comment you responded to, and your failure at reading comprehension is perfect proof that the people who want to work in factories are too ignorant to actually get the majority of current factory jobs. So fark your red state whining.
 
2022-05-22 9:31:06 PM  

PR Deltoid: SuperSeriousMan: Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.

Oh wait...

It's interesting to note that the residents haven't looted and burned the joint flat because of this "injustice ".

Gee.....


The population of the entire city couldn't scare up enough people for a riot with 100% participation
 
2022-05-22 10:43:46 PM  

Rage Against the Thorazine: TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Fissile: cryinoutloud: Fissile: SuperSeriousMan: From TFA: "The company told Fitzgerald that it was having difficulty finding qualified employees..."
Gee, one would think there would be plenty of motivated, well-educated workers in the heart of GOP bootstrap territory.
Oh wait...
That's part of it, but there is more to this.   The reality is that manufacturing no longer needs dumb guys with strong backs who spend the day bolting wheels on to F-150s, robots do that now.  Manufacturing requires fewer workers with more skills and education.   In US Murica, people who have those skills and education don't want to work in a factory.   This means that manufacturing is done in places where people don't view a factory job as beneath them...Europe and Asia.   Buba and Cletus, who are both suffering from Dunning-Kruger, can't understand that they wouldn't have a factory job even if those factories were in the US because they're not smart enough to work in a modern, high-tech factory.  Instead they blame Brandon, and the Red-Blue divide increases.

How do you know?  I live among the stupid, and I've never heard anything like that.  None of the poors ever gave me a hint that they wouldn't work in a (relatively) good-paying factory job.  They wanted a factory in their town, so they could get some decent jobs. There's no politics to it.  They need a job.  One could be provided.  They would apply for it .

Maybe that's just your privilege and the upper class snobbery  talking.  YOU wouldn't work in a factory. Libs don't work in factories--lord no!  They're out doing important work--"launching a product" or some such garbage.  They know how the economic and social  ladder works, and marketing is noble work.  Providing a useful  service is so....so plebian.  How could you?  Like a farmer?

Well-rounded libs went to college, and they don't do brute labor.  They do manipulation, so that half the population of the country starts talking like you.  And you KNOW that t ...


Free market has said its not an appropriate wage no matter how much you think it's an appropriate wage for some else to work at.
 
2022-05-22 11:13:21 PM  

The Smails Kid: It's hard to rhyme a
Word like Pembina
Calvin Klein kinda
North Carolina


it's not far from Regina
 
2022-05-23 12:00:19 AM  
In manufacturing, if you pay a good wage the problem isn't finding people to apply for jobs. It's finding people who can pass a drug screen and will show up sober.
 
2022-05-23 1:10:34 AM  

PR Deltoid: thorpe: So lots of people in the US are uneducated because of ........ unions?
Interesting take, comrade.

Umm,...yeah!

Money spent on Union mandated bread and circuses instead of focusing on the core mission.


Well said, Sergei.
 
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