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(Politico)   Man suing college for not letting him be gay on campus   (politico.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Religion, Homosexuality, Faith, school's chapel, Andrew Hartzler, Christian right, religious colleges, Oral Roberts University  
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2347 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 May 2022 at 5:08 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-05-20 3:46:10 PM  
Umm get a room dude
 
2022-05-20 5:04:15 PM  
It is "Oral" Roberts after all.
 
2022-05-20 5:11:03 PM  
I agree with this lawsuit, religious schools should not be getting funding from government money.
 
2022-05-20 5:11:11 PM  
ORU wasn't Andrew Hartzler's first choice for college. But his father, who had raised him in a deeply conservative Christian environment, told him it was the only university he would pay for his son to attend.

Christ what an asshole.
 
2022-05-20 5:13:44 PM  
I agree the College shouldn't get Federal funding if they are going to discriminate.  That being said: what does "being gay" mean?  He can't tell others he is gay? He can't hit on guys? He can't prance and sashay around lisping 'You go girl!' in a high voice?
 
2022-05-20 5:14:02 PM  
If he wanted to get farked, he should have gone to Trump University.
 
2022-05-20 5:15:30 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-20 5:15:52 PM  
"I will not engage in or attempt to engage in any illicit, unscriptural sexual acts, which include any homosexual activity and sexual intercourse with one who is not my spouse. I will not be united in marriage other than the marriage between one man and one woman."

There's a lot of sexual acts in scripture that are blatantly illegal. I wouldn't use that as a baseline to assuage whether or not a certain sexual act is moral or ethical.
 
2022-05-20 5:15:53 PM  
His shoes have zippers down the side.

Pretty sure he outed himself fairly quickly.
 
2022-05-20 5:17:38 PM  

Torqueknot: I agree the College shouldn't get Federal funding if they are going to discriminate.  That being said: what does "being gay" mean?  He can't tell others he is gay? He can't hit on guys? He can't prance and sashay around lisping 'You go girl!' in a high voice?


Almost all of the above. If he admitted to being gay or was caught engaging in whatever the school considered sinful behavior he could have been expelled.
 
2022-05-20 5:17:42 PM  
If the government can't dictate rules at a religious school due to separation of church and state, the religious schools sure as hell shouldn't get funding from the government. No student loans, no grants, no nothing.
 
2022-05-20 5:17:53 PM  

Torqueknot: I agree the College shouldn't get Federal funding if they are going to discriminate.  That being said: what does "being gay" mean?  He can't tell others he is gay? He can't hit on guys? He can't prance and sashay around lisping 'You go girl!' in a high voice?


If you read the article (yeah I know, Fark and all), it says that Oral Roberts University has an expulsion policy for homosexuals, meaning you get kicked out if the school finds out your homosexual (or some other "sexual deviant" practice as defined by that Christian school's religious beliefs). If they want to continue discriminating against that and/or any other traits they don't like based their on religious beliefs, then they should do it without the government giving that school any money.
 
2022-05-20 5:18:25 PM  
Does the Christian university allow the consumption of shellfish? Because Leviticus (the same one that says gay bad) also says that eating shellfish is a sin.
 
2022-05-20 5:20:33 PM  

Weatherkiss: Does the Christian university allow the consumption of shellfish? Because Leviticus (the same one that says gay bad) also says that eating shellfish is a sin.


Christians are picky choosy about what they follow, plus they even have changed the Christian Bible itself when it said things that were inconvenient to the person who was supposed to be following those religious doctrines (e.g. King James Bible).
 
2022-05-20 5:23:57 PM  

rfenster: It is "Oral" Roberts after all.


Should have gone to Anal Roberts, they're a lot more welcoming.
 
2022-05-20 5:25:40 PM  

hobnail: rfenster: It is "Oral" Roberts after all.

Should have gone to Anal Roberts, they're a lot more welcoming.


But it's on the opposite side of town. Gotta think of the commute.
 
2022-05-20 5:26:51 PM  
While I 100% agree that these schools should not receive federal funding of any kind, why on Earth would you, as a gay man, want to attend farkin' Oral Roberts University?  Why would you want to have anything, whatsoever, to do with Evangelical society?  It's like a Jew wanting to attend Nazi U.
 
2022-05-20 5:27:51 PM  

Weatherkiss: hobnail: rfenster: It is "Oral" Roberts after all.

Should have gone to Anal Roberts, they're a lot more welcoming.

But it's on the opposite side of town. Gotta think of the commute.


The road is also prone to mudslides.
 
2022-05-20 5:28:33 PM  
ORU wasn't Andrew Hartzler's first choice for college. But his father, who had raised him in a deeply conservative Christian environment, told him it was the only university he would pay for his son to attend.

Take on debt and go somewhere else, ffs.
 
2022-05-20 5:29:14 PM  

vrax: While I 100% agree that these schools should not receive federal funding of any kind, why on Earth would you, as a gay man, want to attend farkin' Oral Roberts University?  Why would you want to have anything, whatsoever, to do with Evangelical society?  It's like a Jew wanting to attend Nazi U.


Because college is expensive and it's better to be persecuted while being financially stable for being gay than it is to be persecuted while broke for being gay.

It was the only college his whackjob religious fundie father would offer to pay for him to attend.
 
2022-05-20 5:29:49 PM  

Weatherkiss: hobnail: rfenster: It is "Oral" Roberts after all.

Should have gone to Anal Roberts, they're a lot more welcoming.

But it's on the opposite side of town. Gotta think of the commute.


Not to bad a route if you just slip in the back...
 
2022-05-20 5:29:59 PM  

kmgenesis23: ORU wasn't Andrew Hartzler's first choice for college. But his father, who had raised him in a deeply conservative Christian environment, told him it was the only university he would pay for his son to attend.

Take on debt and go somewhere else, ffs.


Do you know how much college costs?

FFS.
 
2022-05-20 5:30:46 PM  

vrax: why on Earth would you, as a gay man, want to attend farkin' Oral Roberts University?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-20 5:31:25 PM  

hobnail: rfenster: It is "Oral" Roberts after all.

Should have gone to Anal Roberts, they're a lot more welcoming.


Not really, Anal Roberts is quite dry...
 
2022-05-20 5:31:29 PM  

Weatherkiss: whackjob


And he's not even allowed to give or receive one.
 
2022-05-20 5:31:47 PM  
I wish him the best of luck. Sincerely. He'll need it.
 
2022-05-20 5:32:16 PM  

Weatherkiss: Does the Christian university allow the consumption of shellfish? Because Leviticus (the same one that says gay bad) also says that eating shellfish is a sin.


The Bible also says that cheating at business is wrong, that judges shouldn't take gifts from anyone (even people with whom they agree) for fear of looking partial, that bacon shan't be eaten (nor a pig-skin touched, but modern footballs aren't made of pig-leather so they're still OK), that every 50 years all debts are forgiven, and that indentured servitude is fine (with a few stipulations, like that your servant gets the bed if only one is available), and that feeding and clothing the poor isn't just a polite suggestion for when you feel like it.

But none of that lets them hate the gays, so...
 
2022-05-20 5:33:30 PM  

Weatherkiss: vrax: While I 100% agree that these schools should not receive federal funding of any kind, why on Earth would you, as a gay man, want to attend farkin' Oral Roberts University?  Why would you want to have anything, whatsoever, to do with Evangelical society?  It's like a Jew wanting to attend Nazi U.

Because college is expensive and it's better to be persecuted while being financially stable for being gay than it is to be persecuted while broke for being gay.

It was the only college his whackjob religious fundie father would offer to pay for him to attend.


Fark that!  Community college.  Trade school.  Anything but goddamned Oral Roberts shiatfest.

I hope he wins, but I'm sure he won't, cuz freedoms and such as.  In fact, in today's climate, I wouldn't be surprised if some GQP lunatics try and pass a "Kill the Gays" bill in response, because that's exactly where we're headed.
 
2022-05-20 5:34:46 PM  
I thought that the U.S. was supposed to be a secular society with separation of church and state.

Then I found out that an American can go to a religious school, from daycare up to high school, and follow that up higher education at any of the numerous religious universities (mormon, evangelical, catholic). If he gets sick he can go to a hospital of his preferred religious denomination.

All these institutions receive federal money yet openly discriminate based on sexuality, denial of contraception and abortion services  and anything else that offends their religious sensabilities.

How is any if this legal?
 
2022-05-20 5:37:35 PM  

Torqueknot: I agree the College shouldn't get Federal funding if they are going to discriminate.  That being said: what does "being gay" mean?  He can't tell others he is gay? He can't hit on guys? He can't prance and sashay around lisping 'You go girl!' in a high voice?


You know how I know you didn't read the article?
 
2022-05-20 5:37:53 PM  

vrax: Weatherkiss: vrax: While I 100% agree that these schools should not receive federal funding of any kind, why on Earth would you, as a gay man, want to attend farkin' Oral Roberts University?  Why would you want to have anything, whatsoever, to do with Evangelical society?  It's like a Jew wanting to attend Nazi U.

Because college is expensive and it's better to be persecuted while being financially stable for being gay than it is to be persecuted while broke for being gay.

It was the only college his whackjob religious fundie father would offer to pay for him to attend.

Fark that!  Community college.  Trade school.  Anything but goddamned Oral Roberts shiatfest.

I hope he wins, but I'm sure he won't, cuz freedoms and such as.  In fact, in today's climate, I wouldn't be surprised if some GQP lunatics try and pass a "Kill the Gays" bill in response, because that's exactly where we're headed.


Hey, not saying I would have made the same choice. But if there are women out there who can sell their virginity for having their entire college tuition paid for, then there can be LGBTQ+ people who are willing to put up with bigoted religious horseshiat for 4 years so long as they don't have any student loans when they graduate.
 
2022-05-20 5:38:38 PM  
With THIS supreme court? Why even bother? You're just guaranteeing another terribly regressive ruling.
 
2022-05-20 5:43:28 PM  

Weatherkiss: Does the Christian university allow the consumption of shellfish? Because Leviticus (the same one that says gay bad) also says that eating shellfish is a sin.


Leviticus 19 alone:

- Forbids industrial efficiencies when it could be used to feed the hungry [verse 9 and 10]

- Forbids withholding wages

- Forbids mules, mixed crops, and blended fabrics

- Forbids stupid haircuts, especially the fresh-faced buzzcut look

- No tattoos

- Declares there's no such thing as an "illegal alien" [verse 34]

- No psychics or astrologers (it says this TWICE!  Looking at you, corpse of Nancy Reagan)
 
2022-05-20 5:48:32 PM  
From the article
His parents live on the same property in suburban Kansas City, Missouri, as his father's brother and his wife, Rep. Vicky Hartzler, who has pushed for some of the most expansive restrictions on gay people, was suspended from Twitter for an anti-trans post, and is now running in the Republican Senate primary to replace the retiring Roy Blunt.
 
2022-05-20 5:51:06 PM  
I'm a huge supporter of LGBTQ rights, and I want the exemptions to end so that these schools can't take any more federal funds, but I hope this guy loses -- anyone giving money to these schools deserves to have a miserable time.
 
2022-05-20 5:52:38 PM  

monkeypapa: From the article
His parents live on the same property in suburban Kansas City, Missouri, as his father's brother and his wife, Rep. Vicky Hartzler, who has pushed for some of the most expansive restrictions on gay people, was suspended from Twitter for an anti-trans post, and is now running in the Republican Senate primary to replace the retiring Roy Blunt.


Thanksgiving is going to be awkward. Well, more awkward.
 
2022-05-20 5:53:51 PM  
Imagine going to Tulsa, Oklahoma with the intent to become more educated.
 
2022-05-20 5:54:11 PM  
Did he have a very different and eventually disappointing understanding of Oral Roberts U?
 
2022-05-20 5:55:37 PM  
He is gay, goes to a known anti-gay school, then sues them for not letting him be gay?

He had to make a pledge to not be gay? Did he cross his fingers?

His excuse for going is that was the only school daddy would pay for? The anti-gay school? That's a really poor excuse. You don't *have* to go to college, you don't *have* to go to that particular college and make a pledge you don't agree with. Maybe take a year off, save up money and study harder for a better test score to get into the school you *really* want to go to.

Why go to *that* school at all if you're gay? You can do what you want, but damn, that's making life harder for yourself.

I went to an all male college, Morehouse. It's next to an all female school, Spelman, as well as Clark Atlanta and Morris Brown. There was/were/is plenty of LGBTQ+ at all of the schools. Everyone has always been pretty chill about it. After I graduated one day some Morehouse guys wanted to wear dresses on campus, even the gay dudes were like hold up, you can be yourself but why wear a dress at Morehouse, a Christian school where they make you wear suits? We have a dress code. They didn't want to known for wearing dresses. That's why they attended the school. "A Morehouse man wearing a dress!? *faints*" Oh man, it was a big deal. Emails went out. I think it made the news. It lead to some very nuanced discussions and polling and I think it ended with dresses were not allowed. Not sure. I think it's just kids challenging authority, and that's good. But pick your battles!

Anyway, pick the right school and you won't have to sue anybody or make the news to be yourself. And stand up to your father, kid!
 
2022-05-20 6:01:14 PM  
FTA: Under Levitical law, he intoned, "if a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable, they are put to death."

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." [Matthew 5:17]

We are no longer bound by the civil codes of Leviticus because God doesn't have a nation-state on Earth.  Nor are we bound by ceremonial codes because Jesus gave the ultimate sacrifice.  As to moral codes, they are no longer needed to earn one's way to God.

Now if one wants to suggest that we should follow such moral code because Jesus did so, that sounds like a personal choice.  Of course, one could also argue that if you're going do such, maybe you should follow all of the other codes he preached: care for the poor, do not condemn the adulterous, do condemn religious leaders who impose their literalism from a place of privilege, love our enemies, and do not shun the outcasts around you.

It would not come as a shock if the sermons at the university glossed over those other bits.
 
2022-05-20 6:02:12 PM  

Torqueknot: I agree the College shouldn't get Federal funding if they are going to discriminate.  That being said: what does "being gay" mean?  He can't tell others he is gay? He can't hit on guys? He can't prance and sashay around lisping 'You go girl!' in a high voice?


You don't show the gotdamn common courtesy to give him a reacharound.
 
2022-05-20 6:03:23 PM  
ORU's the worst farking neighbors.  Hope this guy gets what he's asking for plus the court throws on punitives deep enough to kill their endowment entirely.  I don't say this about many things but turning ORU into a vast, empty parking lot would improve the livability of that neighborhood.
 
2022-05-20 6:04:34 PM  

Wine Sipping Elitist: He is gay, goes to a known anti-gay school, then sues them for not letting him be gay?

He had to make a pledge to not be gay? Did he cross his fingers?

His excuse for going is that was the only school daddy would pay for? The anti-gay school? That's a really poor excuse. You don't *have* to go to college, you don't *have* to go to that particular college and make a pledge you don't agree with. Maybe take a year off, save up money and study harder for a better test score to get into the school you *really* want to go to.

Why go to *that* school at all if you're gay? You can do what you want, but damn, that's making life harder for yourself.

I went to an all male college, Morehouse. It's next to an all female school, Spelman, as well as Clark Atlanta and Morris Brown. There was/were/is plenty of LGBTQ+ at all of the schools. Everyone has always been pretty chill about it. After I graduated one day some Morehouse guys wanted to wear dresses on campus, even the gay dudes were like hold up, you can be yourself but why wear a dress at Morehouse, a Christian school where they make you wear suits? We have a dress code. They didn't want to known for wearing dresses. That's why they attended the school. "A Morehouse man wearing a dress!? *faints*" Oh man, it was a big deal. Emails went out. I think it made the news. It lead to some very nuanced discussions and polling and I think it ended with dresses were not allowed. Not sure. I think it's just kids challenging authority, and that's good. But pick your battles!

Anyway, pick the right school and you won't have to sue anybody or make the news to be yourself. And stand up to your father, kid!


And ORU doesn't have to receive federal funding if they want to establish expulsion clauses that that are inherently discriminatory.
 
2022-05-20 6:07:20 PM  

Baloo Uriza: ORU's the worst farking neighbors.  Hope this guy gets what he's asking for plus the court throws on punitives deep enough to kill their endowment entirely.  I don't say this about many things but turning ORU into a vast, empty parking lot would improve the livability of that neighborhood.


Was their endowment why he wanted to go, or a misinterpretation of "Oral?"
 
2022-05-20 6:08:49 PM  

Weatherkiss: hobnail: rfenster: It is "Oral" Roberts after all.

Should have gone to Anal Roberts, they're a lot more welcoming.

But it's on the opposite side of town. Gotta think of the commute.


Just take the Hershey Highway!
 
2022-05-20 6:09:52 PM  

vrax: While I 100% agree that these schools should not receive federal funding of any kind, why on Earth would you, as a gay man, want to attend farkin' Oral Roberts University?  Why would you want to have anything, whatsoever, to do with Evangelical society?  It's like a Jew wanting to attend Nazi U.


In conservative communities like the one I grew up in, it's not uncommon for LGBT people to avoid coming to terms with their identity/orientation until well into adulthood.

They have to work through a lifetime of being told things like you're not gay unless you want to be or if you are gay you are not worthy of love.* There's often a lot denial, bargaining, and fear on the road before accepting oneself is gay. Some people do not consciously realize it until they've earned non-transferable credits.

*On the slim off chance someone here is struggling with coming to terms with their sexuality or gender, you ARE worthy. You DO deserve love. Be who you know you are and live freely.
 
2022-05-20 6:10:07 PM  

Weatherkiss: hobnail: rfenster: It is "Oral" Roberts after all.

Should have gone to Anal Roberts, they're a lot more welcoming.

But it's on the opposite side of town. Gotta think of the commute.


I didn't believe you, but you were right.  They're better neighbors, too.
 
2022-05-20 6:12:24 PM  
ORU better find a good 900 ft. tall lawyer to help.
 
2022-05-20 6:13:26 PM  

vrax: While I 100% agree that these schools should not receive federal funding of any kind, why on Earth would you, as a gay man, want to attend farkin' Oral Roberts University?


Thanks to our obscene lack of universal education, if his parents are saying "go to ORU or pay for it yourself", going to ORU is a smarter way to do something that primarily and mostly only benefits employers without having to go into debt.  Plus the campus is only steps away from about 18 weed shops and one liquor store.  Why only one?  It's literally cheaper to go to the casino to drink than to go hit the liquor store and take it home, there's a huge casino with a pool and a tiki bar popular with the gay community literally one traffic light down.
 
2022-05-20 6:14:59 PM  

Weatherkiss: Does the Christian university allow the consumption of shellfish? Because Leviticus (the same one that says gay bad) also says that eating shellfish is a sin.


"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." [Matthew 15:11]

One could also argue that this is a superfluous rule based upon one's interpretation of Matthew 5:17, but at least it doesn't leave much room for debate.  Jesus is saying that we do not sin by the partaking of food.
 
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