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(Automotive News)   Mercedes-Benz: go be upper-middle class somewhere else, we're going to be for just the rich   (autonews.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Automobile, Mercedes-Benz, Automotive industry, Porsche, potential of Mercedes-Benz, Mercedes-AMG, Volkswagen Group, entry-level suite of cars  
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1101 clicks; posted to Business » on 20 May 2022 at 8:20 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



46 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-05-20 6:02:39 AM  
That's funny because in Europe, they're basically a Ford.
 
2022-05-20 8:23:57 AM  

cheap_thoughts: That's funny because in Europe, they're basically a Ford.


and almost as reliable.
 
2022-05-20 8:29:11 AM  

Memoryalpha: cheap_thoughts: That's funny because in Europe, they're basically a Ford.

and almost as reliable.


HEY!
C'MON!
 
2022-05-20 8:29:22 AM  
Upper-middle what?
 
2022-05-20 8:31:19 AM  
I'm not sure I understand exactly what they're doing here.  The strategy gets muddled.

Variants for entry-level compact models such as the A-Class will be cut to four from seven, the company said. Mercedes produces numerous entry-level variants, including the CLA Shooting Brake wagon and SUV models, including the compact GLA.

Mercedes will launch its next car operating system on an entry-level compact car and brand them as flagships for affluent, tech-savvy buyers."We are not chasing volume," Mercedes Chief Financial Officer Harald Wilhelm said on a call with reporters. "This is entry luxury."


So they're simply reducing the size of the A-class?  Or they're giving it a fancy new OS?  What?  I've never been impressed with these cars.  They seem like cheap cars that say "Mercedes" on them.  A coworker had a GLA and it was teeny tiny inside.  I just assumed they had good margins and they made profit on leases financing.

Mercedes announced a move to put 75 percent of investment into top-end vehicles and its highest-selling segment of C-Class and E-Class models.

So, they're going to reduce the number of Cs and Es and only focus on the ones that sell the best?  I'm guessing those are the SUV based versions.  I never thought of C as particularly high-end anyway, but just the Benz equivalent of a BMW 3-series.

Maybe the strategy here is to just reduce the number of variants across the board.
 
2022-05-20 8:34:57 AM  
If I wanted a douchey car, I'd prefer a BMW instead.
 
2022-05-20 8:43:35 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Maybe the strategy here is to just reduce the number of variants across the board.


Which makes sense given the supply chain problems. Plus, "entry level" Mercedes never made much sense. You either have the means to jump to top or you don't and that makes the brand more exclusive and desirable to a certain segment of the population.

Entry level for MB is the used car market (normally).
 
2022-05-20 8:47:37 AM  
When the average retail selling price of a car is $47k in the US, it makes sense for Mercedes to kill off its cheaper models.

That said, a lot of car buyers in the US should have their heads examined. Imagine passing over an Acura MDX to go and pay $50k for a Chevy Traverse or Ford Explorer - a lot of people are doing that these days!
 
2022-05-20 8:52:23 AM  

natazha: Rapmaster2000: Maybe the strategy here is to just reduce the number of variants across the board.

Which makes sense given the supply chain problems. Plus, "entry level" Mercedes never made much sense. You either have the means to jump to top or you don't and that makes the brand more exclusive and desirable to a certain segment of the population.

Entry level for MB is the used car market (normally).


The way it was explained to me in business school (this was the mid-200s) was that the reason they came out with the C-Class hatchback (remember that thing?) was because Mercedes has always had an old customer problem.  Most brands want to get young people into their brand and keep them locked in because buyers are mostly loyal.  So they use entry-level cars to pull people into the brand.

Lexus ranks highest among premium brands for a third consecutive year with a 51.6% loyalty rate. Porsche(50.2%) ranks second, followed by Mercedes-Benz(47.0%), BMW (45.6%) and Audi(45.5%).
Subaru ranks highest among mass market brands and highest overall in the automotive industry for a third consecutive year with a loyalty rate of 61.8%. Toyotaranks second (61.1%), followed by Honda(59.3%), RAM(56.8%) and Ford(53.9%).


So they use cheap cars to get people into the brand and try to bring them up into higher models later.  Toyota had the same thought with its Scion brand because Toyota owners were also getting old in the 2000s.

Also, my understanding is that leasing cars is very profitable for the manufacturers.  When you lease a Benz, you lease from the corporate financing arm.  Entry-level luxury cars have high lease rates.  Check this out.  All of the highest lease percentage brands are luxury brands:  https://cartelligent.com/blog/which-car-brands-are-most-often-leased/
 
2022-05-20 8:55:00 AM  

cheap_thoughts: That's funny because in Europe, they're basically a Ford.


In the US, they're "luxury" cars. In Germany, they're taxis.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-20 9:12:22 AM  

dustman81: cheap_thoughts: That's funny because in Europe, they're basically a Ford.

In the US, they're "luxury" cars. In Germany, they're taxis.

[Fark user image 850x448]


in EU one can buy an affordable MB, maintain it well and have a working mans car for many years. MB always exploited the 'murican market toward needless luxury for the sake of profit. Nothing new.
 
2022-05-20 9:13:43 AM  
"One night, driving a Mercedes, already you're an asshole."
Vic Cavanaugh - 'The Ice Harvest'
 
2022-05-20 9:40:25 AM  

dumbobruni: average retail selling price of a car is $47k in the US


It's insane that I bought a brand-new loaded BMW 3-Series for that in 2011.
 
2022-05-20 9:43:33 AM  
Old news is old. Isn't that why they cut the CLA class a few years ago?
 
2022-05-20 9:56:47 AM  

Rapmaster2000: I'm not sure I understand exactly what they're doing here.  The strategy gets muddled.

Variants for entry-level compact models such as the A-Class will be cut to four from seven, the company said. Mercedes produces numerous entry-level variants, including the CLA Shooting Brake wagon and SUV models, including the compact GLA.

Mercedes will launch its next car operating system on an entry-level compact car and brand them as flagships for affluent, tech-savvy buyers."We are not chasing volume," Mercedes Chief Financial Officer Harald Wilhelm said on a call with reporters. "This is entry luxury."

So they're simply reducing the size of the A-class?  Or they're giving it a fancy new OS?  What?  I've never been impressed with these cars.  They seem like cheap cars that say "Mercedes" on them.  A coworker had a GLA and it was teeny tiny inside.  I just assumed they had good margins and they made profit on leases financing.

Mercedes announced a move to put 75 percent of investment into top-end vehicles and its highest-selling segment of C-Class and E-Class models.

So, they're going to reduce the number of Cs and Es and only focus on the ones that sell the best?  I'm guessing those are the SUV based versions.  I never thought of C as particularly high-end anyway, but just the Benz equivalent of a BMW 3-series.

Maybe the strategy here is to just reduce the number of variants across the board.


They're cutting down the number of A-class variants, possibly to zero, and instead spending an their money on C-class and above. Which is funny because the C-class IS the entry luxury Benz, while the A is an overpriced economy car that really shouldn't have existed. I'd love to see them just cut the A- and C-classes completely, but the GLC is their best selling car by a very long shot and the C63 has become a staple at this point.

Also, Subby, the E-class is where the upper middle class starts. The C- and A-classes are for your dentist's receptionist.
 
2022-05-20 9:58:37 AM  

Get Your Dick Out Of My Food: If I wanted a douchey car, I'd prefer a BMW instead.


Wanna know the difference between a BMW and a porcupine??

With a porcupine, the pricks are on the outside........
 
2022-05-20 10:04:54 AM  

Rapmaster2000: natazha: Rapmaster2000: Maybe the strategy here is to just reduce the number of variants across the board.

Which makes sense given the supply chain problems. Plus, "entry level" Mercedes never made much sense. You either have the means to jump to top or you don't and that makes the brand more exclusive and desirable to a certain segment of the population.

Entry level for MB is the used car market (normally).

The way it was explained to me in business school (this was the mid-200s) was that the reason they came out with the C-Class hatchback (remember that thing?) was because Mercedes has always had an old customer problem.  Most brands want to get young people into their brand and keep them locked in because buyers are mostly loyal.  So they use entry-level cars to pull people into the brand.

Lexus ranks highest among premium brands for a third consecutive year with a 51.6% loyalty rate. Porsche(50.2%) ranks second, followed by Mercedes-Benz(47.0%), BMW (45.6%) and Audi(45.5%).
Subaru ranks highest among mass market brands and highest overall in the automotive industry for a third consecutive year with a loyalty rate of 61.8%. Toyotaranks second (61.1%), followed by Honda(59.3%), RAM(56.8%) and Ford(53.9%).

So they use cheap cars to get people into the brand and try to bring them up into higher models later.  Toyota had the same thought with its Scion brand because Toyota owners were also getting old in the 2000s.

Also, my understanding is that leasing cars is very profitable for the manufacturers.  When you lease a Benz, you lease from the corporate financing arm.  Entry-level luxury cars have high lease rates.  Check this out.  All of the highest lease percentage brands are luxury brands:  https://cartelligent.com/blog/which-car-brands-are-most-often-leased/


Yodas kick all ass in the longevity department
 
2022-05-20 10:06:45 AM  

FlashHarry: dumbobruni: average retail selling price of a car is $47k in the US

It's insane that I bought a brand-new loaded BMW 3-Series for that in 2011.


Wanna know the diff between a porcupine and a BMW??

With a porcupine, the pricks are on the outside.
 
kab
2022-05-20 10:10:24 AM  

Rapmaster2000: The way it was explained to me in business school (this was the mid-200s) was that the reason they came out with the C-Class hatchback (remember that thing?) was because Mercedes has always had an old customer problem.


I keenly remember it.  We had one and sold it with over 100k on the  odometer.  A snapped belt was the only repair the car ever needed  aside from the typical maintenance.   Roomy and comfortable on all-day drives.  One of the best vehicles I've ever owned aside from a '91 Civic hatch that was simply unkillable.
 
2022-05-20 10:14:35 AM  

kab: Rapmaster2000: The way it was explained to me in business school (this was the mid-200s) was that the reason they came out with the C-Class hatchback (remember that thing?) was because Mercedes has always had an old customer problem.

I keenly remember it.  We had one and sold it with over 100k on the  odometer.  A snapped belt was the only repair the car ever needed  aside from the typical maintenance.   Roomy and comfortable on all-day drives.  One of the best vehicles I've ever owned aside from a '91 Civic hatch that was simply unkillable.


My cousin had one.  She loved it.

I just traded in a 2009 BMW 328i manual.  I loved that car.  It was actually reliable.  It was a lot better than that Ford I used to have.
 
2022-05-20 10:21:42 AM  

dumbobruni: When the average retail selling price of a car is $47k in the US, it makes sense for Mercedes to kill off its cheaper models.

That said, a lot of car buyers in the US should have their heads examined. Imagine passing over an Acura MDX to go and pay $50k for a Chevy Traverse or Ford Explorer - a lot of people are doing that these days!


I have both a ford and chevy dealership within 2 miles of my house, but the nearest Acura is 75 miles away.  I have learned my lesson on buying from a dealer that is that far away, it never works out well when it comes to service, repair, or towing.
 
kab
2022-05-20 10:26:20 AM  

oldfarthenry: "One night, driving a Mercedes, already you're an asshole."
Vic Cavanaugh - 'The Ice Harvest'


I've owned all manner of vehicles, and a Corvette is the only one that ever made me feel like this.   Felt like a douchebag every time I stepped out of it.

Owned it for about 6 months, wouldn't buy another.
 
2022-05-20 10:42:03 AM  

Rapmaster2000: natazha: Rapmaster2000: Maybe the strategy here is to just reduce the number of variants across the board.

Which makes sense given the supply chain problems. Plus, "entry level" Mercedes never made much sense. You either have the means to jump to top or you don't and that makes the brand more exclusive and desirable to a certain segment of the population.

Entry level for MB is the used car market (normally).

The way it was explained to me in business school (this was the mid-200s) was that the reason they came out with the C-Class hatchback (remember that thing?) was because Mercedes has always had an old customer problem.  Most brands want to get young people into their brand and keep them locked in because buyers are mostly loyal.  So they use entry-level cars to pull people into the brand.

Lexus ranks highest among premium brands for a third consecutive year with a 51.6% loyalty rate. Porsche(50.2%) ranks second, followed by Mercedes-Benz(47.0%), BMW (45.6%) and Audi(45.5%).
Subaru ranks highest among mass market brands and highest overall in the automotive industry for a third consecutive year with a loyalty rate of 61.8%. Toyotaranks second (61.1%), followed by Honda(59.3%), RAM(56.8%) and Ford(53.9%).

So they use cheap cars to get people into the brand and try to bring them up into higher models later.  Toyota had the same thought with its Scion brand because Toyota owners were also getting old in the 2000s.

Also, my understanding is that leasing cars is very profitable for the manufacturers.  When you lease a Benz, you lease from the corporate financing arm.  Entry-level luxury cars have high lease rates.  Check this out.  All of the highest lease percentage brands are luxury brands:  https://cartelligent.com/blog/which-car-brands-are-most-often-leased/


In Britain the A class (and the C class hatch) were originally 2nd cars, not the primary car for the household. So if the wife wanted a run around but didn't feel comfortable in a large car then it was the smaller Mercs.

Now there is a significant group of people who want luxury but don't want a giant barge to travel around in. This is probably the market Merc wants, the loaded luxury small cars and not the boar bones Stuttgart taxi.

/Size is not the same as luxury
 
2022-05-20 10:54:27 AM  
FTFA: "While Mercedes sold 10 percent fewer vehicles in the first quarter compared to a year ago, profit surged 20 percent."

Funny that.
 
2022-05-20 12:04:08 PM  

Get Your Dick Out Of My Food: If I wanted a douchey car, I'd prefer a BMW instead.


You'd actually get in that nazi sled?!? No thanks.
 
2022-05-20 12:06:40 PM  

FlashHarry: It's insane that I bought a brand-new loaded BMW 3-Series


FTFY
 
2022-05-20 12:25:18 PM  

FlashHarry: dumbobruni: average retail selling price of a car is $47k in the US

It's insane that I bought a brand-new loaded BMW 3-Series for that in 2011.


Not really. Until just a few years ago, the "entry level" luxury cars (e.g., BMW 3-series, Audi A4, Mercedes C-Class) we're squarely in the $30Ks. Options would bring that into the 40s. $47K actually seems kind of high for a 3-Series, unless it was an M3.
 
2022-05-20 12:26:17 PM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: $47K actually seems kind of high for a 3-Series, unless it was an M3.


Specifically referring to 2011, that is. Not today.
 
2022-05-20 1:10:39 PM  
Mercedes doesn't make any models that I would actually want to buy.
 
2022-05-20 1:17:57 PM  
Cool, so soon I can get a piece of shiat "high-end" car to go with my discount superyacht?
 
2022-05-20 1:21:47 PM  

deadsanta: Get Your Dick Out Of My Food: If I wanted a douchey car, I'd prefer a BMW instead.

You'd actually get in that nazi sled?!? No thanks.


splicetoday.imgix.netView Full Size


Official Car of the Third Reich
 
2022-05-20 1:51:33 PM  

Billy Liar: deadsanta: Get Your Dick Out Of My Food: If I wanted a douchey car, I'd prefer a BMW instead.

You'd actually get in that nazi sled?!? No thanks.

[splicetoday.imgix.net image 444x630]

Official Car of the Third Reich


Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-20 2:55:42 PM  

cheap_thoughts: That's funny because in Europe, they're basically a Ford.


True.  In ol' Yurp most of the taxicabs are sporting the three pointed swastika hood ornament.
 
2022-05-20 3:00:21 PM  

dumbobruni: When the average retail selling price of a car is $47k in the US, it makes sense for Mercedes to kill off its cheaper models.

That said, a lot of car buyers in the US should have their heads examined. Imagine passing over an Acura MDX to go and pay $50k for a Chevy Traverse or Ford Explorer - a lot of people are doing that these days!


$50K for an Explorer? Bah!  That's for the poors.  https://www.carsdirect.com/automotive-news/most-expensive-2021-f-150-costs-over-80-000
 
2022-05-20 6:36:56 PM  
FTFA: G-class "off-roader"?

Has anyone ever seen one of those things off the road (aside from during an ice storm)?
 
2022-05-20 6:38:10 PM  

cheap_thoughts: That's funny because in Europe, they're basically a Ford.


And in the US, Fords are commodity yet loved in Europe. Everyone wants what they don't have.
 
2022-05-20 7:18:41 PM  
As someone who has worked for Mercedes, I'm not surprised this is their attitude. Their entry level cars suck. Their "higher tier" cars also suck. When I was there they were delivering S class cars to dealers with a stupid flaw where the trunk wouldn't close. Those were among their most expensive cars.

You've been making cars for over 100 years, and you don't know how to make a trunk latch properly?

Mercedes cars suck. Save your money, and get something from Asia.
 
2022-05-20 8:30:55 PM  
20 years ago I was working out of the German office of the company I was with. I went on the road with a local engineer and he was complaining becuase engineers only got this version of company BMW versus managers who had that version of BMW. I'm like bud, it's BMWs and company cars ALL THE WAY DOWN.
 
2022-05-20 10:05:25 PM  
MBenz is over. Ours was made in South Africa. It has made it through 16 years, so I can't say it is a bad car. I will say that when they fall apart, they just all go at once. It is frightening to behold. From gaskets to suspension, it all just turns to dust. They are willing to do dumb things and use dumb materials that have a certain useful life. Then they break and they are hard to fix. Game over.

They are rich people cars, I guess, and as a brand, as a mark of quality, they are pretty well done, and I feel that they don't really want to make cars anymore. There are many of these zombie companies these days.

I know a car company that cares about what they make. I am going to stick with them. If people do not want to make cars for real people they should do something else. MBenz is just being honest.

Um. Boring story.

My car is a KOMPRESSOR. So it is not just fuel injected. Not just turbo charged. It is supercharged. The gasoline and air are blown into the cylinders using actual COMPRESSED AIR. So the small engine becomes superheated by hot air blasted at it, providing crazy high performance from a small engine.

So. It is a kluge. Interesting engineering. But not stable. Kind of finessed. Cute. Hmmm. Is this the way to solve the problem? Or are we better off calmly analyzing different ways to improve performance, with small improvements over a long period of time, doing things normally with typical engines and typical parts, with high reliability?

German engineers are dumb. GM and Ford? Dumb. Tesla? Dumb. You know why? Because people believe that GENIUS is an idea or a gimmick. Or even a person. And they do too. They sniff their own farts.

That is not what genius is.  It is a process. It is a mindset. It is a zen. It is a path to Nirvana. Mercedes Benz never got close, except maybe with its VW bug (!!!!!!). Ford and GM made cars, but they broke down. They did not have to try.

People at freaking Toyota make cars because they have to. And they will keep doing it. They would do it for free. All these other people are just poseurs. They might as well be getting welfare and going to cocktail parties. They are just "in the way".

That is the end of my boring story. I know Mercedes does not care. They are just finally admitting it.
 
2022-05-20 10:18:53 PM  
My car is a KOMPRESSOR. So it is not just fuel injected. Not just turbo charged. It is supercharged. The gasoline and air are blown into the cylinders using actual COMPRESSED AIR. So the small engine becomes superheated by hot air blasted at it, providing crazy high performance from a small engine.

A turbo also pushes COMPRESSED AIR into the engine.   Yes, compressed air gets hot, that's why forced induction engines (both turbo and superchargered)  use inter-coolers.   I'm pretty sure you Benz was equipped with an inter-cooler.
 
2022-05-20 11:18:04 PM  
Apropos of nothing, I've been very happy with my Subaru and thinking I might want another soon, I drove by the local dealership this afternoon.

There were seven cars for sale on the lot.
One was a Subaru.
None were new.

In this market, it only makes sense to kill off the lower tiers if you've got a reputation like MB's. Seems like those pesky chips really are in short supply.
 
2022-05-20 11:38:10 PM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: FlashHarry: dumbobruni: average retail selling price of a car is $47k in the US

It's insane that I bought a brand-new loaded BMW 3-Series for that in 2011.

Not really. Until just a few years ago, the "entry level" luxury cars (e.g., BMW 3-series, Audi A4, Mercedes C-Class) we're squarely in the $30Ks. Options would bring that into the 40s. $47K actually seems kind of high for a 3-Series, unless it was an M3.


In 1992, the cheapest Mercedes-Benz for sale was the compact 190, starting at $28,950. In today's dollars...

Fark user imageView Full Size

A Mercedes-Benz CLA starts around $38k today. They've been chasing their way downmarket. That's what usually erodes luxury brands - look at coach and their C-stamped cheap "designer" goods.  Toss in lease special offers and basically anyone could have a Benz in the driveway (of shiatty garden apartment parking lot) if they want it. if they lose the exclusive cachet, what is their selling point?  An A-class is a fairly generic FWD car with a four banger under the hood. It's a Corolla with a giant three-pointed star on the grille.*

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-21 1:24:37 AM  

Linux_Yes: With a porcupine, the pricks are on the outside


Ah, right. I'm a prick.
 
2022-05-21 1:28:43 AM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: $47K actually seems kind of high for a 3-Series, unless it was an M3.


M3s were already $75k at that point. This was a 330 with the M-Sport package and a six-speed manual. It also had pretty much every other available option. I built it using their online configurator. Only time I've ever bought a new car.

fatalvenom: FTFY


Not insane at all. Extremely reliable car. Drove it from 0-100k miles and then traded it. I actually still miss it a lot. The last of the normally aspirated BMW straight sixes. One of the greatest motors ever made.
 
kab
2022-05-21 1:42:34 AM  

deadsanta: Get Your Dick Out Of My Food: If I wanted a douchey car, I'd prefer a BMW instead.

You'd actually get in that nazi sled?!? No thanks.


I_understood_that_reference.jpg
 
2022-05-21 11:54:15 AM  

deadsanta: Get Your Dick Out Of My Food: If I wanted a douchey car, I'd prefer a BMW instead.

You'd actually get in that nazi sled?!? No thanks.


You're confusing that with Porsche. Nazi slot car!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Porsche
 
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