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(International Business Times)   $5 gas is bad enough, but $6?   (ibtimes.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Peak oil, Petroleum, American Automobile Association, Patrick De Haan, Gasoline, Price, head of global oil, Natasha Kaneva  
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651 clicks; posted to Business » on 19 May 2022 at 2:41 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


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2022-05-18 10:56:26 PM  
Drive less.
Don't buy gas guzzlers like pickup trucks, huge SUVs.
 
2022-05-18 11:16:22 PM  
$6.80 here in CA.
 
2022-05-19 12:10:20 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-19 1:35:46 AM  

AirForceVet: Drive less.
Don't buy gas guzzlers like pickup trucks, huge SUVs.


Okay. I'm in.

RIDE MOAR!!!
 
2022-05-19 3:01:11 AM  
We got too used to driving around on $2 gas during the pandemic. Start planning trips smarter. Make retail, gym, grocery stops during commutes. Learn where the lights are timed so you can drive slow and steady. Don't gun it, avoid traffic. Work from home if possible. Start that YouTube channel you had an idea for that doesn't require going places. Walk to your bad habits. Get an insulated shopping bag and walk to the grocery store. Imagine you got a DUI and have to find a way to get places. Get a tail basket for your bike.

A new National quarantine period could reverse part of these gas prices.
 
2022-05-19 3:12:37 AM  
ROFLMAO
Like it matters.
Seriously.
Pick a random person, you know that drives, ask them what price per gallon would make them Seriously change their driving habits.
Enjoy the blank looks.

And understand we're doomed.
Gas will be 10 bucks before I die.
20 before you die.
And 50 before your kids die.
 
2022-05-19 3:13:56 AM  
It had been tailing off down here until maybe a week ago, then....

I knew price was headed up again based on the "Costco moron" factor, basically I have to drive past a Costco to get to work.  When prices start going up, a whole bunch of morons will happily sit in line for an hour and a half to fill up at Costco, and the line spills out into the street and generally blocks the road (it's one lane each way and cars are backed up in both directions to turn in).  Line hasn't been as bad the last couple days (in fact it didn't even spill out yesterday) so I'm guessing it's slowing down a bit.
 
2022-05-19 3:21:06 AM  
The funny thing, these idiots who sit in line at Costco for an hour to fill up are in many cases the same idiots who say electric will never replace gas because it would take 20 minutes to charge up.
 
2022-05-19 4:18:00 AM  
Gas by me was $4.85 Sunday. $5.05 Wednesday. $5.10 Thursday. Same station. By June I guess I'm walking.
 
2022-05-19 4:56:10 AM  
Paying over eight here for months.
 
2022-05-19 5:09:16 AM  

waxbeans: ROFLMAO
Like it matters.
Seriously.
Pick a random person, you know that drives, ask them what price per gallon would make them Seriously change their driving habits.
Enjoy the blank looks.

And understand we're doomed.
Gas will be 10 bucks before I die.
20 before you die.
And 50 before your kids die.


If humans were truly doomed those numbers would all be the same.
 
2022-05-19 6:10:02 AM  
img.staticdj.comView Full Size
 
2022-05-19 6:13:20 AM  
Prices clearly are not high because I see plenty of people speeding, just to end up braking and tailgating, then slamming that pedal down to speed again when they get a hole in traffic. Sometimes that even feels like the majority of drivers.

That, and people are still leaving their engines running when they pop into the store for their lotto tickets and cigs (it's open-windows weather here).
 
2022-05-19 6:16:32 AM  

Tom Marvolo Bombadil: If humans were truly doomed those numbers would all be the same.


I studied fusion in college, wanted to make commercially viable nuclear fusion by this time.  Nope.  Even biodiesel (Renewable diesel in pic) is controlled by big oil. Fortunately I WFH now.
 
2022-05-19 6:25:11 AM  
With just 4 years until I "retire" and draw my Social Security, I just got a job only 1 mile from my apartment. Was commuting over 30 miles round trip to former job that paid a dollar less an hour than my new starting wage.

Options that make a difference; look for them.
 
2022-05-19 6:36:02 AM  
I guess I picked the right time to buy a bike and use public transportation.
 
2022-05-19 6:37:08 AM  
*chuckles hybridily while WFH*

/much smug, so edgelord
 
2022-05-19 7:00:59 AM  
Europe has been paying these prices for years.
 
2022-05-19 7:12:34 AM  
Looking forward to reading more Great Gas Robbery tales.
 
2022-05-19 7:25:17 AM  
We did it Joe, we did it.
 
2022-05-19 7:29:08 AM  
We'll see $10.
 
2022-05-19 7:43:12 AM  

NewportBarGuy: We'll see $10.


It's good for the environment.

And capitalists.

Win/ lose
 
2022-05-19 8:10:05 AM  
If only my boat motor was as fuel efficient as the average vehicle... and I don't even have a big motor, but I do use it almost daily May through October but with the price of premium, I might be down to using it once or twice a week.

Heck, I'd even be thrilled if it was as efficient as my 180hp snowmobile.

Well, better than my old 1974 Mercury 1500. It would be cheaper for me to build a dock out to where I fish than use that beast. I do miss the "Tower of Power" though.
 
2022-05-19 8:18:54 AM  
On another note, I remember reading an analysis a while back that the US reliably tips into a recession whenever total energy costs exceed 4% of total GDP. I'm not going to crunch the numbers on that because I'm lazy, but I do wonder how close we're getting.
 
2022-05-19 8:23:39 AM  

waxbeans: ROFLMAO
Like it matters.
Seriously.
Pick a random person, you know that drives, ask them what price per gallon would make them Seriously change their driving habits.
Enjoy the blank looks.

And understand we're doomed.
Gas will be 10 bucks before I die.
20 before you die.
And 50 before your kids die.


The question isn't about what price would spur a change... it's sustained prices.

Look, we all remember 2007 when gas prices shot WAY up, and some people were taking losses trading in their Expeditions and Tahoes, and all the car companies rushed to get every variety of tiny fuel sipping beer-cans out on the market.  Honda Fit, Mazda2, Ford Fiesta, Nissan Versa, Chevy Spark, etc.

Then, prices went down with the recession, then back up; they were sustained at relatively high levels from 2011 to 2014.  That's when we started seeing major improvements in efficiency in cars, even as they got bigger and more powerful.  (Note, the gasoline price in orange is wholesale, not actual at-the-pump prices)

Fark user imageView Full Size


Gas buddy has the charts going back ten years with consumer prices at the pump:

Fark user imageView Full Size


Check out the F150:

Fark user imageView Full Size

That 2005 4.6L V8 produced 231 hp @ 4,750 rpm and 293 lb-ft @ 3,500 rpm.  The 2.7L Ecoboost V6 makes 325 hp at 5000, and 400 lb-ft at 2750.  It's a more powerful engine with more torque, and 43% better fuel economy.

Then, remember inflation.  Yes we've had low inflation most of that time, but even low inflation compounds over time.  In 2008, gasoline hit a national average peak of $4.14. That would be $5.56 today.  Toss in the extra efficiency of the thirstiest vehicles, and I personally suspect somewhere in the sustained $7-8 range is where we *might* see lasting changes in habits, but even then I'd be surprised.

So, yeah, nobody is changing their routines over $4 or $5 gasoline.  This is the bro equivalent to the wife complaining about problems and the husband getting bent over the barrel for offering solutions.  They don't want solutions - they want to vent and whine and "be heard."
 
2022-05-19 8:24:32 AM  

aukie: With just 4 years until I "retire" and draw my Social Security, I just got a job only 1 mile from my apartment. Was commuting over 30 miles round trip to former job that paid a dollar less an hour than my new starting wage.

Options that make a difference; look for them.


Our shop where we work, the grocery store, gas station, home improvement store, Target, and a whole bunch of other places we frequent are in the same 1.5 mile line from our house. On our days off we tend to stay home and work on our house so we might drive 20-30 miles a week tops. Our two daily drivers don't get great gas mileage but we still only use 5-6 gallons a month. This is all by design. Our friends, however, decided to live by the lake and spend $300-$500 a month in gas since they have to come into the city for almost everything. womp womp.
 
2022-05-19 8:28:56 AM  

Izunbacol: The 2.7L Ecoboost V6 makes 325 hp at 5000, and 400 lb-ft at 2750. It's a more powerful engine with more torque, and 43% better fuel economy.


Turbocharged engines cheat the fuel economy tests. Real world use is worse numbers.
 
2022-05-19 8:44:19 AM  
I called this last year.

The oil index is almost to the price it was during Obama's term in 2014 when gas was at it's highest, $4+. Factor in inflation and 13 years of money printers going brrr (since 2008), the current war (one non nuclear aircraft carrier consumes a hardly believable* amount of oil per hour), and price gouging and gas could easily get $6 in a year.

Fark user imageView Full Size


War loves oil. There is too much money in the economy right now, ie inflation. Demand is up, prices go up, gas goes up. The economy can only take so much before it will "correct". What's the ceiling on the price (and the resulting bottom) is anyone's guess.

Hang on! We are at the crest of the rollercoaster.
 
2022-05-19 8:52:11 AM  

wildcardjack: We got too used to driving around on $2 gas during the pandemic. Start planning trips smarter. Make retail, gym, grocery stops during commutes. Learn where the lights are timed so you can drive slow and steady. Don't gun it, avoid traffic. Work from home if possible. Start that YouTube channel you had an idea for that doesn't require going places. Walk to your bad habits. Get an insulated shopping bag and walk to the grocery store. Imagine you got a DUI and have to find a way to get places. Get a tail basket for your bike.

A new National quarantine period could reverse part of these gas prices.


I learned on a vacation back in April that my 2017 Subaru Impreza 2.0i Sport will get damn near 500 miles (my best is 497 [35.5 mpg]) on its 14 gallon tank if I drive 70, whereas it will get about 290-to-325 (avg 21.9 mpg) miles if I drive 77.

Needless to say, I've slowed down to a compromise of 72 where I can get about 440 (31.4 mpg) miles.

Of course, the Impreza is stupidly low-mileage when driving in the city/suburbs.  If I just drive in-town, I get about 250-275 (avg 18.75 mpg) miles.
 
2022-05-19 9:04:13 AM  

Carthax: wildcardjack: We got too used to driving around on $2 gas during the pandemic. Start planning trips smarter. Make retail, gym, grocery stops during commutes. Learn where the lights are timed so you can drive slow and steady. Don't gun it, avoid traffic. Work from home if possible. Start that YouTube channel you had an idea for that doesn't require going places. Walk to your bad habits. Get an insulated shopping bag and walk to the grocery store. Imagine you got a DUI and have to find a way to get places. Get a tail basket for your bike.

A new National quarantine period could reverse part of these gas prices.

I learned on a vacation back in April that my 2017 Subaru Impreza 2.0i Sport will get damn near 500 miles (my best is 497 [35.5 mpg]) on its 14 gallon tank if I drive 70, whereas it will get about 290-to-325 (avg 21.9 mpg) miles if I drive 77.

Needless to say, I've slowed down to a compromise of 72 where I can get about 440 (31.4 mpg) miles.

Of course, the Impreza is stupidly low-mileage when driving in the city/suburbs.  If I just drive in-town, I get about 250-275 (avg 18.75 mpg) miles.


I love it. The law of diminishing returns. In your example of 500 miles, hypothetically you can go 500 miles in 7.14 hours if you drive 70 miles per hour. Doing 77 it will take you just under 6.5 hours.

In your example of 21.9 miles to get you 325 miles, it would result in an extra 8 gallons of fuel to get to 500 miles or 24 dollars at 3 dollars a gallon. This means the difference between drive times to do 500 miles (.65 hour roughly) you saved 37 dollars per hour. I'll take a job making 37 dollars an hour!
 
2022-05-19 9:12:16 AM  

freddyV: Europe has been paying these prices for years.


I lived in Dublin for years. I had a small grocery store across the street from my apartment and a bus stop outside my door. When I moved to another apartment, I still had a bus stop outside my door and another small grocery store that was no more than a 5 minute walk. In both cases, the bus got me within 10 minutes of work in less than 35 minutes.

In the US now...the nearest store is 1.5 miles (30) - and it's a gas station. A place that sells real food is 3.3 miles away. There are no buses here. My last job in the US was 19 miles from my house. With zero pubic transportation.

Also even if stores wanted to open, they can't. Because everything is zoned residential.

It would take a decades for the US to adjust itself to live with European style gas constraints. And it would never happen because there are cheaper options available.
 
2022-05-19 9:19:25 AM  

waxbeans: ROFLMAO
Like it matters.
Seriously.
Pick a random person, you know that drives, ask them what price per gallon would make them Seriously change their driving habits.
Enjoy the blank looks.


And understand we're doomed.
Gas will be 10 bucks before I die.
20 before you die.
And 50 before your kids die.


Um... yeah, because the near totality of my driving is to and from work.  Even when I have to run errands I almost always do it on my way home from work.  I mean, I probably won't go on a road trip any time soon, but other than that what's to change?

As for the rising price of gas, I'm hoping that my current car is the last gas powered vehicle I own.
 
2022-05-19 9:31:19 AM  
How does the Ukraine region being unstable affect the US's oil prices when we are one of, if not the top oil producing countries in the world?

https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-production-by-country/

https://www.investopedia.com/investing/worlds-top-oil-producers/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production
 
2022-05-19 9:33:58 AM  
Thanks, everyone for your concern about what happened to me today.
First off I am OK, still a bit shook up though.
For those of you unaware, I was robbed at the Exxon gas station today by my work.
I called the police as soon as it happened and they were there in a flash.
My blood pressure was through the roof and as I mentioned, I was shaken.
My money is gone though.
The police asked if I knew who did it and I told them, "Yes, it was pump number 4."
 
2022-05-19 9:34:43 AM  
It's al$o amaze$ me how quickly the price of ga$ goe$ up but for $ome rea$on it is $lower to come down.  I wonder why?
 
2022-05-19 9:35:11 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-19 9:38:23 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Also even if stores wanted to open, they can't. Because everything is zoned residential.


Off topic, but there have been lots of arguments that the disappearances and closures of what used to be neighborhood pubs is part of what has driven (hah!) the massive number of DUIs in the USA. We don't have drinking establishments within walking distance of people's homes because of zoning.
 
2022-05-19 9:43:16 AM  
So what happened to all those capped fracking wells?
 
2022-05-19 9:56:32 AM  

twistedsteel5252: So what happened to all those capped fracking wells?


A couple things:
1. Tight labor market - not enough people to get out there and get production going.
2. Oil companies got burned last slump with overproduction and they have zero interest in doing it again.

If there is a genuine need for more oil, companies will do what they can to pump it out of the wells. Right now, there are basically zero oil shortages. Zero or very few stations are out of fuel and if they are it's because of some factor other than crude oil supplies. Oil companies would rather sell every barrel they currently pump for high prices and make money that way. They don't want to go pump more because it's unnecessary and that actually costs them more money to do it.

Same with getting labor to go get production going - companies don't want to hire people just to lay them off later. It's unnecessary and is a hassle, it costs money, and there isn't a shortage of oil so it doesn't matter.

To a certain extent, people also don't want to go work oil jobs in boom times because they know it will bust later. People want steady employment, so to some limit people will stay out of the oil employment market if they got screwed (laid off) before.
 
2022-05-19 9:57:57 AM  

AirForceVet: Drive less.
Don't buy gas guzzlers like pickup trucks, huge SUVs.


And just in the past few years, car companies have pretty much killed off all their small econo-car models that were a bit more fuel efficient forcing people into bigger vehicles. Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, the few small Chevy models, Ford Focus, etc., all gone. Great timing! (/s).
 
2022-05-19 10:04:48 AM  

mrmopar5287: Fark_Guy_Rob: Also even if stores wanted to open, they can't. Because everything is zoned residential.

Off topic, but there have been lots of arguments that the disappearances and closures of what used to be neighborhood pubs is part of what has driven (hah!) the massive number of DUIs in the USA. We don't have drinking establishments within walking distance of people's homes because of zoning.


My last few apartments and my current house are all within 3 or 4 blocks of a small bar. Well, not my current house. The bar/restaurant is closed and up for sale. It closed during COVID, but not due to COVID. The place was making money hand over fist in my tiny town. The owner had to have both knees replaced, and they just had twin grandkids so decided to retire.
So if you know someone who wants to own a bar/restaurant...there ya go.
 
2022-05-19 10:10:15 AM  

AirForceVet: Drive less.
Don't buy gas guzzlers like pickup trucks, huge SUVs.


You are correct. But what will rising fuel costs do to the cost of public transportation? (Assuming you HAVE viable transit where you are.)
 
2022-05-19 10:28:57 AM  

sid244: How does the Ukraine region being unstable affect the US's oil prices when we are one of, if not the top oil producing countries in the world?

https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-production-by-country/

https://www.investopedia.com/investing/worlds-top-oil-producers/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production


Oil is sold on a world market, so if you look at your list, the second largest producer is Russia, and if you take them out of the market, the price goes up sharply.  Doesn't matter where it is produced, unless the government confiscates and and sells it below market.

Canada produces what more per person than the US does, yet they have high gas prices as well.
 
2022-05-19 11:18:02 AM  
My reaction to this remains: Meh.

I drive a Honda Civic Hatchback that gets over 40 mpg on the highway (I've exceeded 50 mpg). I bought it because it was an inexpensive car that gets great MPG, and has good storage space. If you own a $50k+ truck or SUV that gets 20 mpg, go cry me a river.

If I have to run an errand, visit a friend, go to a restaurant, etc. that's several miles away, I ride my bike.

You have agency when it comes to gas prices.
 
2022-05-19 11:43:13 AM  

VoiceOfReason499: Prices clearly are not high because I see plenty of people speeding, just to end up braking and tailgating, then slamming that pedal down to speed again when they get a hole in traffic. Sometimes that even feels like the majority of drivers.

That, and people are still leaving their engines running when they pop into the store for their lotto tickets and cigs (it's open-windows weather here).


💯
 
2022-05-19 11:48:42 AM  

Izunbacol: waxbeans: ROFLMAO
Like it matters.
Seriously.
Pick a random person, you know that drives, ask them what price per gallon would make them Seriously change their driving habits.
Enjoy the blank looks.

And understand we're doomed.
Gas will be 10 bucks before I die.
20 before you die.
And 50 before your kids die.

The question isn't about what price would spur a change... it's sustained prices.

Look, we all remember 2007 when gas prices shot WAY up, and some people were taking losses trading in their Expeditions and Tahoes, and all the car companies rushed to get every variety of tiny fuel sipping beer-cans out on the market.  Honda Fit, Mazda2, Ford Fiesta, Nissan Versa, Chevy Spark, etc.

Then, prices went down with the recession, then back up; they were sustained at relatively high levels from 2011 to 2014.  That's when we started seeing major improvements in efficiency in cars, even as they got bigger and more powerful.  (Note, the gasoline price in orange is wholesale, not actual at-the-pump prices)

[Fark user image image 800x524]

Gas buddy has the charts going back ten years with consumer prices at the pump:

[Fark user image image 717x355]

Check out the F150:

[Fark user image image 785x388]
That 2005 4.6L V8 produced 231 hp @ 4,750 rpm and 293 lb-ft @ 3,500 rpm.  The 2.7L Ecoboost V6 makes 325 hp at 5000, and 400 lb-ft at 2750.  It's a more powerful engine with more torque, and 43% better fuel economy.

Then, remember inflation.  Yes we've had low inflation most of that time, but even low inflation compounds over time.  In 2008, gasoline hit a national average peak of $4.14. That would be $5.56 today.  Toss in the extra efficiency of the thirstiest vehicles, and I personally suspect somewhere in the sustained $7-8 range is where we *might* see lasting changes in habits, but even then I'd be surprised.

So, yeah, nobody is changing their routines over $4 or $5 gasoline.  This is the bro equivalent to the wife complaining about problems and the husband getting bent over the barrel for offering solutions.  They don't want solutions - they want to vent and whine and "be heard."


It's tiresome.  If you won't stop driving.  No needs to hear it. I stopped driving 10 years ago.  Too expensive.  From the gas to tires to repairs to maintenance.
Saw off .
You spend 25 to 50K and can't maintain it and you pay all that for gas. Well you choose that STFUAEABOD 😏
 
2022-05-19 11:50:17 AM  

mrmopar5287: Izunbacol: The 2.7L Ecoboost V6 makes 325 hp at 5000, and 400 lb-ft at 2750. It's a more powerful engine with more torque, and 43% better fuel economy.

Turbocharged engines cheat the fuel economy tests. Real world use is worse numbers.


OK then, even sticking with a V8, you've gone from 14 MPG overall to 18 MPG overall (19 for 4x2, but I only uses 4x4s in this comparison, because 4x2 pickups are stupid and should not exist)

Fark user imageView Full Size


Consumer Reports tested the 2020 model I referenced above and got 19 overall (13 city, 26 highway), vs the 18/23 and 20 overall from the EPA tests):

Fark user imageView Full Size


In 2004, they got 14 overall, with 9 in the city and 20 on the highway vs the EPAs 12/16, 14 overall:

Fark user imageView Full Size


If there is any "cheating," it's good for 1 mpg.  Turbos are more sensitive to driving style as they create virtual displacement on demand - if "real world" means gunning it at every green and generally driving it like a rental (that's definitely "real world" here in Maryland), a turbo V6 will suck gas like a V8.  That said, even the V8's are far more efficient than they used to be, and a 29% improvement in fuel economy still means that the "painful" gas price threshold is higher.

14 MPG at an inflation adjusted $5.56/ gallon is 39.7¢ per mile.  To get 39.7¢ per mile with an 18 MPG vehicle, you'd have to pay $7.15/gal.  In a 19 MPG vehicle, 39.7¢/mile  would be $7.54/gal. In a 20 mpg vehicle, 39.7¢/mile is $7.94/gallon.

Thus, my hunch that $7-8/gallon is the threshold for actual price pressure.  It's still pretty damn cheap to drive.

MBZ321: AirForceVet: Drive less.
Don't buy gas guzzlers like pickup trucks, huge SUVs.

And just in the past few years, car companies have pretty much killed off all their small econo-car models that were a bit more fuel efficient forcing people into bigger vehicles. Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, the few small Chevy models, Ford Focus, etc., all gone. Great timing! (/s).


The problem with little mini-cars like the Fit is that the economy wasn't much better than the larger, more livable cars.  Why buy a Fit when you could get the same economy with a Civic?  Wait, you want a ton of cargo hauling space?  CR-V and HR-V both a ton of cargo space in a more substantial package with a only a small hit in fuel economy, and the latter is essentially a beefed up Fit.   Basic economy cars are razor thin profit models - you'll get JUST the people who insist on a new car; everyone else is going to buy a CPO Civic or CR-V over a Fit.  What was Honda's marketing angle on a Fit?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-05-19 11:51:42 AM  

kdawg7736: [Fark user image image 679x459]


CEOs owe you. Joe has nothing to do with this.
 
2022-05-19 12:04:34 PM  

Izunbacol: What was Honda's marketing angle on a Fit?


They sold reasonably well up until they apparently aren't worth the trouble in the USA. They were good entry level cars and second or third cars for families - good for teen drivers. Honda must have decided it's easier to shift those buyers toward a Civic now.
 
2022-05-19 12:27:45 PM  
This is where I'm supposed to come in an comment on how awful it was that it costs an extra $0.10 per charge to commute to work and back in my PHEV, right?

Well unfortunately, my daughter has her license now and I only have visitation rights with the PHEV. I'm stuck commuting in my truck which barely gets 30 mpg on my usual route, so I can't really do that.

/funny how all the guys that were laughing and telling me to get a "real truck" a few months ago are now asking "How do you like that?  What kind of mileage does it get?"
 
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