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(Jalopnik)   Im in UR base model 3 killin it wid Bluet00thz   (jalopnik.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Bluetooth, unknown device, locked Tesla, Tesla Model, NCC Group, smart devices, Bluetooth Low Energy, Researchers  
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1138 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 17 May 2022 at 9:35 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



22 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-05-17 6:02:14 PM  
Thank goodness my vehicles are too old for this crap.

/2008 GMC
//2001 Audi
 
2022-05-17 6:56:51 PM  
c.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2022-05-17 7:00:30 PM  
So the proposed solution for the BLE feature/bug is to resurrect ultrawideband radios? UWB died on the vine when the great recession of '08 killed most of the companies actually designing the IP everyone else packaged and sold. Calling it secure is disingenuous as it never gained enough market penetration to become a target for hackers to go after. If anything it probably has worse security problems because no one has ever  bothered to stress/pen test it.
 
2022-05-17 7:49:20 PM  

fragMasterFlash: So the proposed solution for the BLE feature/bug is to resurrect ultrawideband radios? UWB died on the vine when the great recession of '08 killed most of the companies actually designing the IP everyone else packaged and sold. Calling it secure is disingenuous as it never gained enough market penetration to become a target for hackers to go after. If anything it probably has worse security problems because no one has ever  bothered to stress/pen test it.


So what would you suggest?  Not snarking, actually curious.  Is there a protocol out there that would be workable?
 
2022-05-17 8:52:47 PM  
This might be useful for the secondary markets. Move to a shipping container, pop the 12V battery so it can't be lojacked, then you can part the car out for all the things Tesla won't sell.
 
2022-05-17 9:03:26 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: fragMasterFlash: So the proposed solution for the BLE feature/bug is to resurrect ultrawideband radios? UWB died on the vine when the great recession of '08 killed most of the companies actually designing the IP everyone else packaged and sold. Calling it secure is disingenuous as it never gained enough market penetration to become a target for hackers to go after. If anything it probably has worse security problems because no one has ever  bothered to stress/pen test it.

So what would you suggest?  Not snarking, actually curious.  Is there a protocol out there that would be workable?


Keep the BLE, but instead of authenticating based simply on establishment of a connection with a paired device require the paired device to be running an app that knows about a private key stored in the device/phones equivalent of a Trusted Platform Module. Base trust upon key exchange instead of spoof-able attributes of the radio stack and suddenly any weakness in the radio stack ceases to be of significant concern.
 
2022-05-17 9:40:39 PM  
preview.redd.itView Full Size
 
2022-05-17 9:44:38 PM  

fragMasterFlash: Benevolent Misanthrope: fragMasterFlash: So the proposed solution for the BLE feature/bug is to resurrect ultrawideband radios? UWB died on the vine when the great recession of '08 killed most of the companies actually designing the IP everyone else packaged and sold. Calling it secure is disingenuous as it never gained enough market penetration to become a target for hackers to go after. If anything it probably has worse security problems because no one has ever  bothered to stress/pen test it.

So what would you suggest?  Not snarking, actually curious.  Is there a protocol out there that would be workable?

Keep the BLE, but instead of authenticating based simply on establishment of a connection with a paired device require the paired device to be running an app that knows about a private key stored in the device/phones equivalent of a Trusted Platform Module. Base trust upon key exchange instead of spoof-able attributes of the radio stack and suddenly any weakness in the radio stack ceases to be of significant concern.


imgs.search.brave.comView Full Size

WITCH!
 
2022-05-17 11:16:36 PM  

mybluemake: WITCH!


*Checks Tab*

Sorry, for some reason I thought this thread was going to end up on the STEM tab. I'll try to be more careful not to nerd up the Fandom tab in the future.
 
2022-05-17 11:37:44 PM  

fragMasterFlash: mybluemake: WITCH!

*Checks Tab*

Sorry, for some reason I thought this thread was going to end up on the STEM tab. I'll try to be more careful not to nerd up the Fandom tab in the future.


Social science and law here. My apologies for calling you a witch.

/
 
2022-05-18 2:34:13 AM  
Two weird edits at the two crucial moments on the vid
 
2022-05-18 3:21:32 AM  

mybluemake: fragMasterFlash: mybluemake: WITCH!

*Checks Tab*

Sorry, for some reason I thought this thread was going to end up on the STEM tab. I'll try to be more careful not to nerd up the Fandom tab in the future.

Social science and law here. My apologies for calling you a witch.

/


Damn right - frag's a duck
 
2022-05-18 5:57:46 AM  
Back in the day you just needed a coat hanger and screwdriver to enter and steal locked cars. Now you need special computer equipment and software, and of course people breathlessly proclaim that vehicles these days are sooo much easier to steal.
 
2022-05-18 6:58:33 AM  
Screwdriver and a coat hanger is pretty obvious, even if you do it fast.  Hanging around running an app to spoof the software can be done while looking completely innocent until the locks pop and you drive off, all without a bit of visible damage or lurking right on top of a car to tip someone off
 
2022-05-18 7:23:20 AM  
Blast Amber alerts on all the things
 
2022-05-18 11:54:31 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: fragMasterFlash: So the proposed solution for the BLE feature/bug is to resurrect ultrawideband radios? UWB died on the vine when the great recession of '08 killed most of the companies actually designing the IP everyone else packaged and sold. Calling it secure is disingenuous as it never gained enough market penetration to become a target for hackers to go after. If anything it probably has worse security problems because no one has ever  bothered to stress/pen test it.

So what would you suggest?  Not snarking, actually curious.  Is there a protocol out there that would be workable?


I'd point out that the wireless key didn't solve any real problems we were having. It's just a frill that's cool and so mildly convenient, it woulds seem an irrational chocie to tale this over the mechanical key entry.
We get so little return value, but risk easier car theft and higher car costs to have it?
Not looking like the most rational feature we've ever had really, just a cool frill that looks cool but does very little for us really.

Oh look i save myself all of 5-10 seconds not using the mechanical key to open the door.
Wow i must a save at least another 2-3 seconds not needing to put my mechanical key (which would alrady be in my hand) in the slot and turn it to start the car.


Wow so much savings, so much value, must be worth it, right?
 
2022-05-18 12:09:43 PM  

PvtStash: Benevolent Misanthrope: fragMasterFlash: So the proposed solution for the BLE feature/bug is to resurrect ultrawideband radios? UWB died on the vine when the great recession of '08 killed most of the companies actually designing the IP everyone else packaged and sold. Calling it secure is disingenuous as it never gained enough market penetration to become a target for hackers to go after. If anything it probably has worse security problems because no one has ever  bothered to stress/pen test it.

So what would you suggest?  Not snarking, actually curious.  Is there a protocol out there that would be workable?

I'd point out that the wireless key didn't solve any real problems we were having. It's just a frill that's cool and so mildly convenient, it woulds seem an irrational chocie to tale this over the mechanical key entry.
We get so little return value, but risk easier car theft and higher car costs to have it?
Not looking like the most rational feature we've ever had really, just a cool frill that looks cool but does very little for us really.

Oh look i save myself all of 5-10 seconds not using the mechanical key to open the door.
Wow i must a save at least another 2-3 seconds not needing to put my mechanical key (which would alrady be in my hand) in the slot and turn it to start the car.


Wow so much savings, so much value, must be worth it, right?


That's how I feel, honestly.  I have a smart key that means I don't have to get my keys out - I just have to have the fob in proximity to the car, and inside the car when I want to put it in gear.  Easy.  I can't imagine why this is any more convenient.  The only thing I could think of is that someone wants to control every single thing from a phone and never wants to use a key or switch again. In that case, where everything in your house is controlled by Home or Alexa or something, I guess you would balk at carrying a keyfob.
 
2022-05-18 1:11:58 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: That's how I feel, honestly.  I have a smart key that means I don't have to get my keys out - I just have to have the fob in proximity to the car, and inside the car when I want to put it in gear.  Easy.  I can't imagine why this is any more convenient.  The only thing I could think of is that someone wants to control every single thing from a phone and never wants to use a key or switch again. In that case, where everything in your house is controlled by Home or Alexa or something, I guess you would balk at carrying a keyfob.


It's so when you're being chased by a serial killer, you don't nervously fumble around for your keys to make your escape.
 
2022-05-18 1:32:49 PM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: Benevolent Misanthrope: That's how I feel, honestly.  I have a smart key that means I don't have to get my keys out - I just have to have the fob in proximity to the car, and inside the car when I want to put it in gear.  Easy.  I can't imagine why this is any more convenient.  The only thing I could think of is that someone wants to control every single thing from a phone and never wants to use a key or switch again. In that case, where everything in your house is controlled by Home or Alexa or something, I guess you would balk at carrying a keyfob.

It's so when you're being chased by a serial killer, you don't nervously fumble around for your keys to make your escape.


LOL

I don't do that now.  Whenever I am chased by a serial killer, I take comfort in the knowledge that the keyfob in my pocket allows me instant access without my even having to press a button.
 
2022-05-18 2:59:33 PM  
This is why I disabled the "proximity unlocking" feature on my car a couple weeks after I got it. Pressing the unlock button on my fob to unlock the doors isn't so horrible an imposition that I feel it'd be worth taking the risk of getting my car broken into or stolen by some joker with a signal booster.
 
2022-05-18 4:49:31 PM  

Marksrevenge: Back in the day you just needed a coat hanger and screwdriver to enter and steal locked cars. Now you need special computer equipment and software, and of course people breathlessly proclaim that vehicles these days are sooo much easier to steal.


you need a smart phone and an app you can download from the internet
 
2022-05-18 8:31:11 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: Benevolent Misanthrope: That's how I feel, honestly.  I have a smart key that means I don't have to get my keys out - I just have to have the fob in proximity to the car, and inside the car when I want to put it in gear.  Easy.  I can't imagine why this is any more convenient.  The only thing I could think of is that someone wants to control every single thing from a phone and never wants to use a key or switch again. In that case, where everything in your house is controlled by Home or Alexa or something, I guess you would balk at carrying a keyfob.

It's so when you're being chased by a serial killer, you don't nervously fumble around for your keys to make your escape.

LOL

I don't do that now.  Whenever I am chased by a serial killer, I take comfort in the knowledge that the keyfob in my pocket allows me instant access without my even having to press a button.


Pssh, like that's gonna happen that often

/3, maybe 4 times a week tops
 
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