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(Car and Driver)   Remember the International Harvester Scout SUV from the 1970s? Volkswagen has the rights, and we'll see who gets to the market first, the Scout EV or Cybertruck   (caranddriver.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Sport utility vehicle, International Harvester, Diesel engine, Navistar International, Truck, Jeep, American Motors, Scout name  
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1106 clicks; posted to STEM » on 12 May 2022 at 1:17 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



23 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-05-12 1:35:48 AM  
I'm cautiously optimistic, though given VW's recent emissions shenanigans, my hopes aren't high. It was the quality that made the Scout so popular, and VW has a rocky record there as of late.

We'll see.
 
2022-05-12 1:57:45 AM  
Plenty of room in that chassis to hide the sneaky diesel engine
 
2022-05-12 2:10:27 AM  
Bring back the Thing

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2022-05-12 3:12:34 AM  
Musk ain't gunna start folding rocket steel into trucks until enough cells can be sourced to meet demand for the Y.
 
2022-05-12 5:02:21 AM  
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Let us see what actually comes off the line and into showrooms.

IH Scouts were never anything but practical works horses.

 
2022-05-12 5:42:37 AM  
So pitting a real car company against a start up that is constantly making and breaking promises?  Hmm...tough one.
 
2022-05-12 6:45:33 AM  
VAG owns IH, huh? How'd that happen? Was it a package deal with something else or did they seek it out for some reason?

Anyway if it's in the same league as the new Bronco I don't think I'll be bothering with one: too expensive, too many electronics, too upscale (these were originally work vehicles, not luxury status vehicles, so heated leather seats, multi-zone climate control, and 10-speaker stereos weren't options), and too fragile for serious off-roading.

I'd rather have one of the original Scouts with the Nissan TD engine than anything VAG turns out. Even an EV conversion kit on an original model would be preferable.
 
2022-05-12 7:29:53 AM  

2wolves: [Fark user image image 544x318][Fark user image image 850x348]Let us see what actually comes off the line and into showrooms.IH Scouts were never anything but practical works horses.


Knew a guy with a Scout back in the 80s, he could literally hose out the interior if it got muddy.

The engine etc. were bulletproof but OTOH it would start rusting out if it even caught a whiff of road salt.
 
2022-05-12 7:43:08 AM  
Our family had an '80 Scout II with--I believe--the 258 6-banger, which had much more getup and go than my Cougar V-8 ever dreamed of having. Every hunting season, the old man took it up to the beaver-dammed swamps of Vermont's Northeast Kingdom and drove it over power line roads and skidder paths that were hard enough to walk on, never mind drive over. That beast went anywhere.

I inherited it for a while in the early 90's, but most of the Scout IIs had serious rust issues, and this one was no exception. The steering also had a tendency to wander a bit at 65mph+, and I was doing a lot of highway driving at the time, so we sold it.
 
2022-05-12 7:43:55 AM  

Snapper Carr: Bring back the Thing

[Fark user image 275x183]


And Mmmbop to put in it.
 
2022-05-12 7:46:48 AM  

Gleeman: The engine etc. were bulletproof but OTOH it would start rusting out if it even caught a whiff of road salt.


they pretty much came pre-rusted from the factory. legend goes that International stored their rolls of steel for the bodies outside in the elements, and if the metal developed a patina - they'd just paint over it.

/can't tell you the last time I saw a Scout up here in the land of potholes and road salt
//would love to have one myself though
 
2022-05-12 7:52:46 AM  
Wouldn't it be great if all of the benefits of batteries for design and scale efficiencies could be used to make some interesting styles, shapes, and applications?

Who said it all has to be speed, acceleration, and distance? I drive around all day and I see a lot of funky cars people use to express themselves. Most of the world is not concerned with size and speed and performance far beyond what the infrastructure can accommodate. They want Hello Kitty pillows in the rear window, fuzzy dice, and a  cheesy spoiler or something.

Someday.

You could do it with ICE engines, but creativity would be choked out by powerplants constrained by emissions and different fuel standards.
 
2022-05-12 8:10:53 AM  

Snapper Carr: Bring back the Thing

[Fark user image image 275x183]


Heil Hitler!  While someone's going through your purse.
 
2022-05-12 8:48:56 AM  

sleze: So pitting a real car company against a start up that is constantly making and breaking promises?  Hmm...tough one.


A "start up" that's currently making way more EVs than the "real car company"? The "real car company" whose CEO says they might catch up to 2022 numbers for the "start up" in 2025?

K.
 
2022-05-12 9:08:41 AM  
Speaking of Harvester Scouts. it's been a while since I've seen littlett's around Fark.
 
2022-05-12 9:23:21 AM  
We probably would have had one of the originals, except my father died in 1971.  There weren't many vehicles back then that could seat eight.  I remember arguing about  transmissions and rear-end gear ratios.
 
2022-05-12 9:24:55 AM  

sensitive yet dangerous: VAG owns IH, huh? How'd that happen? Was it a package deal with something else or did they seek it out for some reason?


Given the two companies both doing HUGE cheating on emissions, they're a good duo.

Back in the 1990s IH was one of the seven large truck engine manufacturers that were doing lots of emissions cheating. The companies (IH, Cat, Cummins, Detroit, Mack, Renault, and Volvo) programmed their engines to run fine on test stands but once you operated them for longer than about 20-30 minutes the emissions controls would be turned off. Drive the trucks over the highways and within about half an hour you would get better fuel economy at the cost of higher emissions.

IH became Navistar and they had their own problems going into the 2000s. Sometime around 2000 the EPA had determined the next level of Diesel engine emissions that would kick in starting in 2010, giving the manufacturers lots of time to plan ahead. The CEO of Navistar (Dan Ustian) made the decision in 2001 that Navistar was going to pursue their own development of exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) to meet NOx emissions limits. He gave some speeches saying that the catalyst aftertreatment being pursued by others using Diesel exhaust fluid was a nuisance that truckers didn't want to deal with having to fill up another tank of some liquid. Fast forward to near the deadline and it was very clear that the EGR strategy wasn't going to work. Navistar spent some time using emissions credits that allowed them to build non-compliant engines, but then the EPA started to stack fines on top of non-compliant engines. Navistar was paying a couple thousand dollars fine for each engine that left their plant. They even played a game in 2010 where they had a batch of engine blocks they made ahead in 2009 and stacked them up in the factory, and tried to say that since they started assembly of the engines in 2009 that they could legally be sold as 2009 models. Finally, things got so bad for the company that around 2012 they had to announce they were going to buy exhaust treatment equipment from Cummins while they spent the time and money to develop their own - Cummins had a good laugh at that, selling their rival the technology that they spent a decade dumping on while saying they were going to do something easier to meet emissions. That CEO of Navistar left the company after about 37 years working there and of course he got a few million severance to buy him out.

In 2016, after years of financial trouble, VW Truck and Bus (a subsidiary of VW Group that controls the European truck companies MAN and Scania) pursued a technology collaboration and established a joint venture. VW Truck & Bus took a 16.6% stake in Navistar. In 2020, VW Truck and Bus (renamed to Traton) proposed a purchase of all outstanding shares of Navistar. That purchase was completed on July 1, 2021, so now Navistar is part of Traton Group (owned by VW Group).
 
2022-05-12 9:41:55 AM  
The EV market is really starting to get competitive. I sure hope Elon doesn't do anything stupid like alienate the people that have been buying his cars.
 
2022-05-12 10:37:21 AM  
What's German for Binder?
 
2022-05-12 12:10:12 PM  

Gleeman: a guy with a Scout back in the 80s, he could literally hose out the interior if it


I had a Scout in the mid 90s, drove it in high-school.  Good machine.  You can't break them if you tried.  They're insane.
 
2022-05-12 12:18:54 PM  

sensitive yet dangerous: VAG owns IH, huh? How'd that happen? Was it a package deal with something else or did they seek it out for some reason?

Anyway if it's in the same league as the new Bronco I don't think I'll be bothering with one: too expensive, too many electronics, too upscale (these were originally work vehicles, not luxury status vehicles, so heated leather seats, multi-zone climate control, and 10-speaker stereos weren't options), and too fragile for serious off-roading.

I'd rather have one of the original Scouts with the Nissan TD engine than anything VAG turns out. Even an EV conversion kit on an original model would be preferable.


Yeah, the Bronco is a mixed bag. The smaller size models are about as generic and boring as possible. But there seems to be a bigger, beefier version that at least looks good on the road.

Of course, they also overheat on a mild 85 degree day while trying to go up a hill i once took in a Dodge Neon, but that's pretty crazy 4 wheelin', according to the Ford folks that day.

I'd love to see a new Scout, but you're right, it would go from being a utility vehicle to some kind of soccer mom status symbol.
 
2022-05-12 12:40:51 PM  

Gleeman: Knew a guy with a Scout back in the 80s, he could literally hose out the interior if it got muddy.


You could do that with my '77 CJ-5 as well. No floor plugs, so there was a ton of road noise, but with the doors and top off anyway, you didn't notice. :-)
 
2022-05-12 6:01:28 PM  
I had two Scouts, one full soft top and one with a bikini. They were fantastic, fun, and durable. But in the words of my regular mechanic, they had "some of the best engines ever made and the worst electrics ever devised."
 
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